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Story is not that Dark or Jaw dropping

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#61 Skyy High

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:31 PM

View PostChabby, on 19 June 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

Well... Yeah, ok, but I want a good balance of both. Even in my example (Mass Effect) we start the game as being someone with people we know. It's not about having a prestory or a small reputation already, but how the storytelling is handled. In the human storyline, it fails in my opinion. We have too much of a reputation already and we know our friends too much, it doesn't give the chance to the player to link with his character and the other NPCs.
Anet took it to an extreme. Not only we already have friends, but they decided it that way so much to a point we're not allowed to get to know them more.

They made me friend with Quinn and one hour later I have to decide if I want to see him dead or no. Having a prestory isn't completely a problem, it's normal and I can live with it somehow, but Arenanet wanted our character to have friends to a point they didn't even allow the player to know them. As a player, I wanted to know Quinn, to be friend with him, to know where he comes from, how we met, if he ever had feeling for someone, I don't know, but he's just an empty dumb character we're supposed to decide if he lives or not because we're not given the chance to get close to him or whatever. The decision (his death or not) would have had a bigger emotional impact on the player if he had the time to get attached to him. This time/possibility isn't given.

The same goes to Logan. That's why I said I'd rater get to meet them as a player before being given the prestory thing. A good balance is the key. In the human storyline, there is not. Well, if some of youi enjoyed the storyline, good and I can live with it too (I played all the human storyline in the beta), I'm still curious enough to continue. I just hope it gets better in later levels. If not, we'll see in the expansion packs with the feedbacks and such. It could have been handled better, but it could be worse too. For a MMO we're still given lot of choices, so I won't complain to death lol, it's not that bad.
Ok, I agree that asking you to decide the fate of an NPC's life after an hour is abrupt. I'd prefer if you decided something less permanent, like if he goes to jail, and then they bring him back 40 levels later or something to have you make that decision. I just am not sure if that's possible, since (now I'm speculating) I believe every chapter of your story is going to be modular and independent of everything that came before. I'll be happy if that's not the case, but I won't be surprised if it is.

I don't agree about Thackeray. Your character doesn't know him except by reputation at the beginning of the game (and you can even hear some of this reputation for yourself if you listen to the conversations around Divinity's Reach), and he doesn't know you at all. I think they build his character, and your relationship with him, quite well over the first few story missions. He grows to respect, and then trust you believably (IMO). I think it rankles a lot of people that their character basically has to come off as trustworthy in order for the human story to "work".

Edited by Skyy High, 19 June 2012 - 03:34 PM.


#62 Chabby

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:36 PM

^ True.

Since we'll spend more time with Logan, I do agree that his development is more ... progressive. I was just looking forward a bigger challenge to gain his respect since I'm a street rat and not a noble.

#63 Zadex

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:43 PM

Early levels I think is meant to be killing bandits, helping city guards and such. I hope later in the game, or in expansions, we will get a massive event, like Searing in GW or Shattering in WoW. That would change most of the world, make it darker, more grim, yet without unneeded violence, gore and curses. I hope to see more of the last BWE finale themed events or zones in the game.

#64 Specialz

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 04:05 PM

Making a story dark does not necessarily make it mature. I personally think that a mature game is determine by the themes that reflect how the world we live in operates. While violence is one of them, is probably the one that can easily diminish how the game is perceive as mature. That would be like saying, just because you kill a lot of people in a game, that games more mature and it actually has the opposite effect.

View PostGilles VI, on 19 June 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

eh? I could say the Searing was like the most depressing that ever happened to me in a video game.. :P
I honestly getting attached to how beautiful ascalon was then I did my last mission and BAM my beautiful ascalon became old ascalon that i am still mad about.

#65 Gilles VI

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 04:13 PM

View PostSpecialz, on 19 June 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

Making a story dark does not necessarily make it mature. I personally think that a mature game is determine by the themes that reflect how the world we live in operates. While violence is one of them, is probably the one that can easily diminish how the game is perceive as mature. That would be like saying, just because you kill a lot of people in a game, that games more mature and it actually has the opposite effect.


I honestly getting attached to how beautiful ascalon was then I did my last mission and BAM my beautiful ascalon became old ascalon that i am still mad about.

That's why alot of people have characters that just stay in pre-searing :D

#66 Linfang

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 04:42 PM

Perhaps they are waiting for a more SHTF situation to evolve in the first GW2 expansion. The release could just be for us to establish ourselves then go "dark" from there?

#67 Vorch

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 04:44 PM

I'd

View PostCastellan, on 19 June 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

What I mean is that from what I've played (three different personal stories)... Story is not that engaging due to a lack of violence and truly heinous acts. If the story was a bit more wicked, I think that the player would feel more emotional towards the events that are occurring.

(Warning spoiler contains info on a storyline)
Spoiler

It feels as if a 9 year old can play this game. If that's what Anet was going for then job well done. But I don't believe this is the case.

Now, if the story gets better as it goes then I'm fine. But I have yet to see it.

I'd hate to see what motivates you do do things you enjoy in real life o.o Keep in mind, the game is rated T.

If you want to see the kind of direction that the story is going, I would read Edge of destiny and Ghosts of Ascalon.

As far as the game goes, lets just say you will have to make a few decisions that should leave you a bit more emotionally invested on the human side.

Edited by Vorch, 19 June 2012 - 04:46 PM.


#68 Kyln

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 04:54 PM

"Dark" stories are feeling really overdone to me right now. I am going to withhold judgement on GW2 story until I am able to finish at least one compete play through.

#69 Charlie Dayman

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 04:57 PM

I played through my version of the human storyline, which could be summarized as:


Yep, the storyline sure is a walk in a daisy field.

Edited by Charlie Dayman, 19 June 2012 - 04:58 PM.


#70 Alaroxr

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 05:04 PM

We've played the story to level 20 which only deals with your race's story and a few choices at the beginning. We haven't even gotten to picking which faction you want to join.

Doesn't anyone appreciate story anymore? You're not supposed to be a new adventurer and 15 minutes later become the hero of the world slaying Elder Dragons left and right...

In terms of story, we're not even past the exposition where you introduce the characters, setting, and set up the conflict for the rest of the story. The rising action hasn't even begun for the main part of the story.

Edited by Alaroxr, 19 June 2012 - 05:05 PM.


#71 Hirsty

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 05:06 PM

I'm disspointed in the story tbh

#72 Alaroxr

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 05:13 PM

View PostLinfang, on 19 June 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Perhaps they are waiting for a more SHTF situation to evolve in the first GW2 expansion. The release could just be for us to establish ourselves then go "dark" from there?

It's more the first 1-20ish levels are for us to establish ourselves, and 30-80 goes dark.

Levels 1-20 covers your race's Story and two of your three specific choices. After that the story begins to focus on the Elder Dragons.

#73 DarksunG

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 05:50 PM

View PostZefiris, on 19 June 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Adding random violence does not make a story more mature. Sorry. What you are talking about is inherently immature, in fact - the assumption that brutality or "heineous acts" make a story inherently better is the assumption of a teenager.

View PostAnastaziel, on 19 June 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

Saying that random violence adds to the story or a game is like saying that special effects add to the plot of a movie.
Truth.  "Dark" stories =/= mature stories. That thinking represents immaturity.  One of the reasons older people watch Dramas that seem "boring" to younger generations is that by that point in their lives people have come to terms with what it truly important in life: relationships.  Real stories are about characters. How they develop, how they relate to others & come to terms with trials.  When you have a War stoy, it's not the violence that makes it mature, it's how the people involved are impacted & deal with it.

View PostToby_from_Midgard, on 19 June 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Special effects definitely add to the perception of a movie. Story-driven movies with great actors have special effects and complex sound effects as well. It's almost like saying color doesn't add to a picture.
That's a disingenuous analogy. Anastaziel was right special effects do not add to PLOT of a movie. they add to VISUALS of a movie. & while they can be used to good effect & enhance the plot & story they are not story.  Color IS a visual, you can't separate that.

what you like is what you like, but people should never make the mistake of inherently calling "dark" stories mature or "good".

Edited by DarksunG, 19 June 2012 - 05:57 PM.


#74 NeHoMaR

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:03 PM

View PostCastellan, on 19 June 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

..... Now, if the story gets better as it goes then I'm fine. But I have yet to see it.
The story available in beta is just "the starting of a newbie hero" or something like that, I suppose that will change soon or later to something more "epic", it should be.

#75 Haterx732

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:05 PM

View PostAlaroxr, on 19 June 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:


It's more the first 1-20ish levels are for us to establish ourselves, and 30-80 goes dark.

Levels 1-20 covers your race's Story and two of your three specific choices. After that the story begins to focus on the Elder Dragons.

Oh?

Is that so? What happens if you're wrong?

#76 Alaroxr

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:06 PM

View PostHaterx732, on 19 June 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

Oh?

Is that so? What happens if you're wrong?

2/3 of your initial choices (which aren't based on Elder Dragons) are covered in the first 20 levels. We know you choose to join the Durmand Priory, Order of Whispers, or The Vigil at level 30. All three groups are dedicated to fighting the Elder Dragons, and the zones passed level 25-35 are much closer to the effects of the Elder Dragons.

And everything revolving the Elder Dragons is dark and depressing.

So no, I'm not wrong.

Edited by Alaroxr, 19 June 2012 - 06:09 PM.


#77 Slashiroth

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:07 PM

I love dark and sadistic fantasy plots. I'm sure there will be certain parts in the story that us the gamer's will find. But not everyone likes being evil, so you have to consider all the different types of people trying to enjoy there time on GW2, which is something Anet has to cater too.

Plus..... think of the kids...

@Slashiroth

Still...not...80...T...T


#78 leongrado

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:11 PM

When it comes to human characters and story, they could not have made them more uninteresting. I know Colin wants to make the player feel important but kiling a few centaurs with 30 other people to help isn't exactly what I would call a heroic deed. I want to feel important but I want to feel like I earned it. Wish they make Logan something other than a complete square. He doesn't seem at all cunning and his dialogues are so generic that I'm always tempted to just skip them. I don't think they nescessarily need nescessarly add any more violence to it and whatnot. They just need to make the characters a little more unique.

#79 I'm Squirrel

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:13 PM

Played through the Norn storyline with the lost horn in BWE2, I think it's probably the most "dark" tale out of the three so far. Haven't tried the Charr storyline, i'm hoping that one shows its brilliance, since these guys are the badasses of GW2. But, I too agree these stories are pretty disappointing. I knew the human storyline would be lame with the circus thing, that wasn't very creative IMO, and should be replaced. I don't know anyone who enjoys the circus... :mellow: ...Maybe festivals, but wanting to join the circus...?

#80 Haterx732

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:14 PM

View PostAlaroxr, on 19 June 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

2/3 of your initial choices (which aren't based on Elder Dragons) are covered in the first 20 levels. We know you choose to join the Durmand Priory, Order of Whispers, or The Vigil at level 30. All three groups are dedicated to fighting the Elder Dragons, and the zones passed level 25-35 are much closer to the effects of the Elder Dragons.

And everything revolving the Elder Dragons is dark and depressing.

So no, I'm not wrong.

mmhmm...

It's hard to please me when it comes to "dark and depressing"

We'll see.

#81 AndrewSX

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:15 PM

I think that story, in the true "Let's face the dragons" aspect, won't start till you get aligned with one of the 3 orders...which is, iirc, 30ish level event in the storyline.

Thus, i wouldn't overexaggerate the "Story sucks" thing 'till it gets at the true start of climax.

Then, i might aswell say "story sucks."

But not now.

#82 Pikl

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:16 PM

View PostZefiris, on 19 June 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

I don't hate violence in stories - my avatar is from a story where, in episode 7, a family gets butchered, and their inards removed, replaced with candy, as a macabre halloween greeting. I'm a fangirl for that story.

dude, sounds cool, what's the name of this said story?

#83 Naqui

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 06:41 PM

Maybe it will get better. I was quite disappointed with the stories I went through as well. 2 charr and 3 human storylines. Many of the characters were easily forgettable. The charr were decent. The humans were some of the worse storylines I've played in a video game. I'd still wait and see if it gets better though as we'd only seen a tiny snippet so far.

#84 Korra

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:12 PM

View PostMilennin, on 19 June 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Guild Wars 1 had a horribly bad story,

Is this srs?

#85 pamelakd

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:28 PM

View PostZefiris, on 19 June 2012 - 12:19 PM, said:

Adding random violence does not make a story more mature. Sorry. What you are talking about is inherently immature, in fact - the assumption that brutality or "heineous acts" make a story inherently better is the assumption of a teenager.

I don't hate violence in stories - my avatar is from a story where, in episode 7, a family gets butchered, and their inards removed, replaced with candy, as a macabre halloween greeting. I'm a fangirl for that story.
My point is merely that your point is complete nonsense.

(not that I don't think the personal story needs some work. But adding violence? Nah, not particularly needed. More choices to be less-than-heroic would suffice. Non-dark stories can still be non-predictable and engaging)

The way I read the OP is not necessarily wanting to promote violence, but to at least have the acts of violence which ARE in the story to have some meaning.  Our characters don't really seem to feel!  Terribly things happen around us, but they're glossed over so our character can be all goody two shoes and save the day.  I guess the feeling is, WHY are we doing this?  Do we react passionately to violence?  The Charr probably act the most passionately, but even then, they are surrounded by violence and evil, which somehow gets painted with a G rated brush, essentially rendering our characters shells, with no passion, feelings, or motivation.

#86 Exessor

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:39 PM

I have only read a few posts; if this was already mentioned I apologize.

The reason for the story not being dark is that ArenaNet wants the game to be accessible to as many players as possible. If the put in a lot of dark stuff, the age restriction might go up.

But I got to admit, that I like dark stories too ;)

#87 Skyy High

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:43 PM

View PostLinfang, on 19 June 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Perhaps they are waiting for a more SHTF situation to evolve in the first GW2 expansion. The release could just be for us to establish ourselves then go "dark" from there?
Fairly certain the SHTF moment will come when we realize we need to stop worrying about our race's individual problems, and start worrying about HOLY CRAP DRAGON YOU GUYS SERIOUSLY!

#88 98percentcute

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 07:54 PM

Watched wooden potatoes rant on it, did you?

but you should have also noticed he mentions it's probably to keep the age rating on this game low to appeal to a wider audience.
I know from playing GW1 there were people with young kids who loved to play the game, and they definitely wouldn't be able/allow them to play if it featured more darker elements.

#89 Sans

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 08:16 PM

View PostPlutonsvea, on 19 June 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

I agree with you.
And also, the cut-scenes are terribly slow. I always decide to skip it, just to get on with the game.



You skip the cut scenes and say you don't like the story?
How does that make sense?

I can do the same, watch.
I don't like Game of thrones, though i haven't read it because it's too long.

#90 Killyox

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 08:54 PM

View PostCastellan, on 19 June 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

What I mean is that from what I've played (three different personal stories)... Story is not that engaging due to a lack of violence and truly heinous acts. If the story was a bit more wicked, I think that the player would feel more emotional towards the events that are occurring.

(Warning spoiler contains info on a storyline)
Spoiler

It feels as if a 9 year old can play this game. If that's what Anet was going for then job well done. But I don't believe this is the case.

Now, if the story gets better as it goes then I'm fine. But I have yet to see it.

Violence is not what makes story good. Plot is. Random violence might appeal at most to kids who think it's fun.

View PostHaterx732, on 19 June 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

mmhmm...

It's hard to please me when it comes to "dark and depressing"

We'll see.
'

go read some novels by Edgar Allan Poe. Man....i remember reading one when i was 12. I felt as if i was suffocating while reading it and engulfed by darkness, lost in the mists with no direction where to go.





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