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Is it Fun? Colin Johanson on How ArenaNet Measures Success

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#241 Kymeric

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:07 AM

View PostHavana Crab, on 19 June 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

That I think is because it's easier to make things cheaper or free when people are used to paying than it is to go in the other direction.

Okay, that makes sense.  Then why not start them off that way, rather than add them at this point?

It's so much harder to take things like the addition of the death penalty when earlier they blogged about how DP's are no fun and they don't see why they should have one.  It's very hard not to see that as the true feelings of the developers that was over-ridden by the bean counters at a later date.

Really, a lot of these things, like the DP, are very small.  The thing that makes them chafe was that we all sang "Hallelujah!" when they announced they weren't going to have them, only to see them slowly added in at a later date.

#242 DarkWasp

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:08 AM

View PostKymeric, on 19 June 2012 - 11:52 PM, said:

One of the things I don't get is why they keep making small CS money making decisions before the CS really goes live.

If, after a month after launch, they look at their sales and see that they are not making enough to satisfy their need for income, then it makes sense for "Is it profitable" to override "Is it fun?"   I just wish they could wait that long, instead of making these little changes toward the CS during beta.  What made them change their original design impulse and implement a cash shop incentive when they haven't seen how well the CS is performing yet?
There are a few reasons:

1. Launch day/month is probably a good time to sell CS items.
2. If you sell something a bunch of people are going to hate, you're kind of stuck with it. Can't really take removing paid items out lightly.
3. Gives players the chance through feedback to help craft their own launch experience.

Unfortunately in all cases with cash shops the "positive" feedback no matter how little, seems to outshine the negative feedback.

How do you feel about adding Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber as combat-ready tonics to [insert fantasy game here]?

Person 1: This is a joke right?
Person 2: NO!
Person 3: Are you serious? No! Why would you destroy your game environment like that?
Person 4: lol that wuld b awsome

OK WE'RE TOTALLY ADDING IT! PEOPLE LOVE THE IDEA!

Nah I'm just joking. But that's what it feels like with most games.

Edited by DarkWasp, 20 June 2012 - 12:08 AM.


#243 Di-Dorval

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:14 AM

View PostZudetGambeous, on 19 June 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Maybe they should read their own article before making more changes.

Strange how they post this article after all they added in the game just to make people go more in the shop....  What if the game was just made to provide fun my ass !

#244 Havana Crab

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:19 AM

View PostKymeric, on 20 June 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

Okay, that makes sense.  Then why not start them off that way, rather than add them at this point?

Yeah.  That would have been better.  If they had started by stating there would be repair costs after death then people wouldn't have complained about them later.  (I think some form of DP is a good thing, I'm just giving an example.)  If they had said dyes would be per character then people would not have been upset about that change either.  It would have been better to always go in the favorable for the player direction.  I'm not sure what happened.  Perhaps there was too much uncertainty and they didn't know what they wanted to do.

#245 Culture Shock

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:24 AM

View PostHavana Crab, on 19 June 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

Bold blinding my eyes!  (Saying it louder doesn't make it more clear.)

So what you were trying to say before was that the "Is it fun" question is not used for monetary decisions.  That was exactly what I was trying to get you to admit: that the decision to switch from account to character based dyes was not based on "Is it fun?"  So I guess we actually agree 100%.  Don't have anything else to say about that.

Oh and for your other question, "Was the game fun?"  If that's what you mean, then I'd have to say it's probably more fun than any other game I've played, period.  It is by far better than any other MMO. (I've played GW1, Rift, and more recently Tera.)  I think it will definitely be the best MMO ever made, and possibly the best video game period.  I think it won't be out for a bit, but I'm okay as it's coming out this year.

Cool, so since we agree I've been pondering every time I see a thread about the "cash shop" what are the suggestions fans have for products the cash shop should have that would support a full staff of artist?  I mean throughout GW1 we had holiday events that changed the artwork of entire cities, we had an entire class reworked, we had skills constantly re-balanced all while the new expansions were being created.  We got 3 expansions in less than 5 years with GW1, so I would love to hear from fans what types of things they "would buy" in the cash shop.

#246 Devildoll

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:27 AM

I have to admit, sometimes when Arenanet releases blog posts I skim them looking for what I really want to hear.  I have gotten to play 2 betas for them and a stress test.  I know now that this game ...a game I have purchased 2 copies of a year and a half ago...then bought 2 more digital copies and canceled my original 2 for...IS...the game I want to play.   And I read this blog post word for word twice.  And having done so, I have a better understanding of what they are looking for with the surveys.

To Arenanet:  Thank you for the blog post today.  I really do love hearing about how the employees love working there. I love that I am allowed to be a part of the end product.  That I get to enjoy your years of labor.  I hope that on the day of release, as you are all sitting there waiting for us to pile onto the servers, I hope you all know how much we really do appreciate all you have done.  And...sorry we were so impatient :)  we mean well.

#247 dannywolt

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:28 AM

Is it just me or does GW2G seem to attract 90% of the dissatisfied GW2 fans?

I really enjoyed the blog post, particularly the info on how closely A-Net evaluates the survey results.

View PostMexay, on 19 June 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

I feel as though I need to point it out to anyone who is too blind to understand what those, such as myself, are getting at:

We are not angry that ArenaNet made a blog post.

We are not angry or upset about the fact that this article was about what it was about.

WE ARE FRUSTRATED ABOUT THE FACT THAT WHEN WE ASK FOR ACTUAL INFORMATION, IT ISN'T GIVEN TO US.

...and then they release this. Right after a BWE. The community was expecting some information regarding it or something of value. The point we are making is that this particular blog post was badly timed and that at this stage of development, the community should be receiving more tangible information.

It's been about a week since the BWE ended. It takes time for A-Net to sift through the feedback, brainstorm changes, discuss those changes, and finally decide which changes to implement. Give them a few more weeks before demanding information. I know that patience is so impossibly hard, but really....

View PostHavana Crab, on 20 June 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

Yeah.  That would have been better.  If they had started by stating there would be repair costs after death then people wouldn't have complained about them later.  (I think some form of DP is a good thing, I'm just giving an example.)  If they had said dyes would be per character then people would not have been upset about that change either.  It would have been better to always go in the favorable for the player direction.  I'm not sure what happened.  Perhaps there was too much uncertainty and they didn't know what they wanted to do.

Excellent point! This is exactly why A-Net should not be blogging unfinished details like some posters in this thread want.

#248 Kymeric

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:42 AM

View PostCulture Shock, on 20 June 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

Cool, so since we agree I've been pondering every time I see a thread about the "cash shop" what are the suggestions fans have for products the cash shop should have that would support a full staff of artist?  I mean throughout GW1 we had holiday events that changed the artwork of entire cities, we had an entire class reworked, we had skills constantly re-balanced all while the new expansions were being created.  We got 3 expansions in less than 5 years with GW1, so I would love to hear from fans what types of things they "would buy" in the cash shop.

No one is going to honestly be able to say how much is necessary in the CS because we have no idea how much money goes to staff, how much to servers, how much to investors.

The players pay for expansions, so that needs to be dropped off the list of "why we need a CS".  Then people can take a wild guess at "What would be in the CS" to pay for holiday development, bug fixes, community support, and rebalancing.

View Postdannywolt, on 20 June 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

It's been about a week since the BWE ended. It takes time for A-Net to sift through the feedback, brainstorm changes, discuss those changes, and finally decide which changes to implement. Give them a few more weeks before demanding information.

So if they are going to do a beta even once a month, aren't they kind of screwed if it takes three weeks just to sift through the feedback, brainstorm changes, and decide which ones to implement?  Doesn't leave much time for the actual implementing, does it?

Edited by Kymeric, 20 June 2012 - 12:43 AM.


#249 Shamadamun

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:43 AM

View PostPolitoed, on 19 June 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

How is this not in complete contradiction with what the blog was about?

I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to start this reply...

You started off by saying certain features in the game were unfun, I replied saying they were absolutely necessary for a games longevity. Longevity is important. Anyone who knows anything about MMOs knows thats important.

By taking it to an extreme, why doesn't Anet just give us every single item in the entire game? That'd be "fun" and we wouldn't have to "work" for any of it - probably because MMOs don't work that way, and never will. I have no idea how to make this any more clear without going into an unecessary rant about nothing, I have a hard time explaining obvious game designs.

EDIT: I wasn't referring directly to the blog post, I was directing my comments toward your comments. Anet can focus on "fun" all they want, thats great, it goes without saying you need those cost and reward situations - that shouldn't have to explained for a video game.

Edited by Shamadamun, 20 June 2012 - 12:45 AM.


#250 Kymeric

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:46 AM

View PostShamadamun, on 20 June 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

By taking it to an extreme, why doesn't Anet just give us every single item in the entire game? That'd be "fun" and we wouldn't have to "work" for any of it

No, that would be dull.  No one was complaining about having to earn skill points to unlock skills, or earn levels to unlock traits.

They are complaining about having to buy skills and traits they have no interest in just to get to the ones they want.

Reductio ad absurdum.

#251 Ramei Arashi

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:54 AM

View PostMexay, on 19 June 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

As someone who is currently studying for a Diploma in games, I can tell you you're wrong. That "plenty to fix" is purely just numbers and a little bit of coding. We are ALSO two developer builds BEHIND them. You can list all the issues you like, and I'll tell you how it's just a number that needs changing. Balance issues? NUMBERS. Class plays wrong? Numbers.

90% of content is there. Nothing is game-breaking. They have no need to release in december, this is coming from a development point of view. However, this is, of course assuming that the massive DAT file does match up to what they said the end-file-size would be, which it's very close to. Thus most content is there.

There are some personal stories that have no voice overs. Many others for which the voices and text don't match. Its more than just numbers.
There are quite a few NPCs that don't do anything when you click on them.
Asura and Sylvari areas not accessable yet

Waiting for Christmas is just good marketing, even if everything works sooner.

#252 Culture Shock

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 12:59 AM

View PostKymeric, on 20 June 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:


The players pay for expansions, so that needs to be dropped off the list of "why we need a CS".

The budget for GW2 was 25 million dollars.  And expansions have to be developed and completed "BEFORE" players get a chance to see if they will buy it.  You can't pay for a team to develop something over years unless you have the money up front.  No one works for free based on a dream that one day a few years from now players will pay for our labor.

The expansions are developed from the cash provided by the actual game.  So even if some billionaire wanted to "forward" more cash to expand a game that "finally" paid off after the initial investment, most business men would not want to gamble on a game staying popular enough to sell another "add-on".  Because if a game is really successful it should generate it's own budget for the expansions.

This game doesn't charge a subscription for servers or expansions.

#253 dannywolt

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 01:08 AM

View PostKymeric, on 20 June 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

So if they are going to do a beta even once a month, aren't they kind of screwed if it takes three weeks just to sift through the feedback, brainstorm changes, and decide which ones to implement?  Doesn't leave much time for the actual implementing, does it?

They begin implementing changes as they decide on them. I assumed that would be obvious.

Or do you honestly think it's a simple and quick task to process beta feedback?

#254 Kimhyuna

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 01:11 AM

View Postdannywolt, on 20 June 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

Is it just me or does GW2G seem to attract 90% of the dissatisfied GW2 fans?

I really enjoyed the blog post, particularly the info on how closely A-Net evaluates the survey results.



It's been about a week since the BWE ended. It takes time for A-Net to sift through the feedback, brainstorm changes, discuss those changes, and finally decide which changes to implement. Give them a few more weeks before demanding information. I know that patience is so impossibly hard, but really....



Excellent point! This is exactly why A-Net should not be blogging unfinished details like some posters in this thread want.

Oh please, GW2G is the main site for GW2 fans to come and chat/rage/speculate. And 90% aye? Hello Mr. Statistical whiz.

Again, there seems to be alot of discord and anger in the thread. One should remember that what is 'fun' for them may not necessarily be 'fun' for someone else.

Edited by Kimhyuna, 20 June 2012 - 01:11 AM.


#255 dannywolt

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 01:24 AM

View PostKimhyuna, on 20 June 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

Oh please, GW2G is the main site for GW2 fans to come and chat/rage/speculate. And 90% aye? Hello Mr. Statistical whiz.

Again, there seems to be alot of discord and anger in the thread. One should remember that what is 'fun' for them may not necessarily be 'fun' for someone else.

My apologies. I should have said 'about 90%.' But seriously, I have lurked on this forum since it's beginning and the dissatisfaction expressed here has been steadily growing. I used to enjoy browsing this forum, but now I stop by just to argue with the pessimists.

And the time required to process the feedback from a BWE is nearly 100% of the time between events. Which is why BWEs are not scheduled, but instead implemented when most of the work is done from the previous one.

#256 Colin Johanson

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 01:34 AM

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Hey all,

I just wanted to say first thank you for all the feedback, comments and suggestions. I wanted to clarify a couple of points, since I think folks raise valid questions here that a worthy of a response:

- This blog post doesn't address stuff from BWE 2 and how we plan to respond to the feedback from it, because this post was written and submitted before BWE 2, long before we compiled all the feedback from the BWE. The posts that go up on our blog are usually written weeks/months in advanced and sent over for editing and then posted when there is a downtime where there isn't anything currently scheduled on our blog. However, keep an eye out on TenTonHammer where Jon and I are currently working on answering questions for Lewis Burnell that answer some very BWE 2 specific questions, many of which have been asked in this very thread.

- This blog post was written from the perspective of the content design team and the folks on it who are directly responsible for the production of event, story, and dungeon content in Gw2. Stuff like cash shop, traits, skill progression, etc. are all handled by other teams in the company, and as such really aren't the focus on this article. The focus here is how we develop content specifically at ArenaNet on the Content Design team, and the metrics we use to help track the success of that content specifically, vs. how content is developed for games with subscription models. The cash shop isn't mentioned in the article because quite frankly, we simply don't design content on our team with the intent of the cash shop being needed to do any of it. Our bonus hope from this article was also to help explain why you should fill out those little surveys in the BWE events!

Hope that helps a bit, I know in this time after the BWE everyone is looking for more information, release dates, or wants to talk about stuff directly tied to this BWE. When this blog post was written, that information wasn't currently available, thus the content presented within.

We realize a lot of you are insanely excited at this point and just want more information period that helps get us towards release. We'll absolutely be getting more information out for all of you, but as usual with our development philosophy until we've fully tested and are happy with changes we're making, we don't want to talk about them. Keep an eye on the internets, lots more is coming from us to shed light into aspects that are probably more up the Gw2Guru fans alley, plog bosts like this content one are really intended more for the casual gaming audience to help draw more attention towards the game and its development.

All the best and thanks again for all your comments everyone! (Insert obligatory smile)
-Colin

#257 TYphoon34

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 01:45 AM

View PostCulture Shock, on 20 June 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

Cool, so since we agree I've been pondering every time I see a thread about the "cash shop" what are the suggestions fans have for products the cash shop should have that would support a full staff of artist?  I mean throughout GW1 we had holiday events that changed the artwork of entire cities, we had an entire class reworked, we had skills constantly re-balanced all while the new expansions were being created.  We got 3 expansions in less than 5 years with GW1, so I would love to hear from fans what types of things they "would buy" in the cash shop.

LOL, you're so wrong, it makes me laugh. Please, do tell me how much you know about running a game company. BTW, how much experience do you have? Let's exchange companies, design strategies, and portfolios please.


I love it when uninformed people comment on matters they do not know about as if they have some authority or know all on the subject. Oh, you mentioned the artists need to be paid, hahahaha, you're so funny.

Please, when you wish to come at me with some knowledge, I'm always available.


P.S. Hi Colin

#258 Asbourne

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:02 AM

Ty Colin, I'll be eagerly awaiting the QA with TenTonHammer!

#259 The Axe Effect

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:04 AM

View PostAsbourne, on 20 June 2012 - 02:02 AM, said:

Ty Colin, I'll be eagerly awaiting the QA with TenTonHammer!

When's this?

#260 Asbourne

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:08 AM

View PostColin Johanson, on 20 June 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

Hey all,

I just wanted to say first thank you for all the feedback, comments and suggestions. I wanted to clarify a couple of points, since I think folks raise valid questions here that a worthy of a response:

- This blog post doesn't address stuff from BWE 2 and how we plan to respond to the feedback from it, because this post was written and submitted before BWE 2, long before we compiled all the feedback from the BWE. The posts that go up on our blog are usually written weeks/months in advanced and sent over for editing and then posted when there is a downtime where there isn't anything currently scheduled on our blog. However, keep an eye out on TenTonHammer where Jon and I are currently working on answering questions for Lewis Burnell that answer some very BWE 2 specific questions, many of which have been asked in this very thread.


I guess whenever they finish?

#261 Havana Crab

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:09 AM

View PostCulture Shock, on 20 June 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

Cool, so since we agree I've been pondering every time I see a thread about the "cash shop" what are the suggestions fans have for products the cash shop should have that would support a full staff of artist?  I mean throughout GW1 we had holiday events that changed the artwork of entire cities, we had an entire class reworked, we had skills constantly re-balanced all while the new expansions were being created.  We got 3 expansions in less than 5 years with GW1, so I would love to hear from fans what types of things they "would buy" in the cash shop.
Sure.  This is a good question.  I've asked it myself because I want to support this game but I don't know what I want to buy after character slots and storage.  I really do want to support them.  Here's my input:

1. I loved being the team good guy and bringing the items that provide a little comfort for the group.  In GW1, this meant DP removal and summoning stones.  This needs to be done carefully.  Too much of an advantage and it becomes pay to play.  I've seen that they have merchant stones everyone in the party can get use from.  I don't think something like this crosses the line.  So anything that provides a bit more convenience for the party, without it being too obvious that they are inconveniencing the party on purpose to get us to buy it?  It's tricky.  

The thing about DP is it provided an important function in GW1.  Making death hurt.  Making it so you couldn't zerg through things by dying again and again.  So it wasn't there just to inconvenience the group.  Because of that, were it available, I would have bought a lot of party DP removal without feeling like I got cheated by having to buy my way out of a planned inconvenience.  

2.  Even more storage.  I bought all the storage in GW1 I could and wished I could buy much much more.  I like having a lot of space.  If they had made a system with more tabs in GW1 and allowed me to pay instead of using mules for extras I would have thrown money at them all I could.

3. Content (if it is done right.)  Again this is risky, but they did it in GW1 well by letting us pay extra to experience the history of important lore figures.  We weren't paying for content for our characters.  It was paying for an adventure with another character.  If they add a pay to play dungeon with good loot, there would be an intense uproar and we'd all revolt.  Then again, you add enough material and you can call it an expansion and everyone cheers.  So I think it's tricky.  

I'll have to think about this a bit.  Anyhow you should start a thread for this, cause it's too off topic for here.

#262 Geikamir

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:13 AM

View PostColin Johanson, on 20 June 2012 - 01:34 AM, said:

Hey all,

I just wanted to say first thank you for all the feedback, comments and suggestions. I wanted to clarify a couple of points, since I think folks raise valid questions here that a worthy of a response:

- This blog post doesn't address stuff from BWE 2 and how we plan to respond to the feedback from it, because this post was written and submitted before BWE 2, long before we compiled all the feedback from the BWE. The posts that go up on our blog are usually written weeks/months in advanced and sent over for editing and then posted when there is a downtime where there isn't anything currently scheduled on our blog. However, keep an eye out on TenTonHammer where Jon and I are currently working on answering questions for Lewis Burnell that answer some very BWE 2 specific questions, many of which have been asked in this very thread.

- This blog post was written from the perspective of the content design team and the folks on it who are directly responsible for the production of event, story, and dungeon content in Gw2. Stuff like cash shop, traits, skill progression, etc. are all handled by other teams in the company, and as such really aren't the focus on this article. The focus here is how we develop content specifically at ArenaNet on the Content Design team, and the metrics we use to help track the success of that content specifically, vs. how content is developed for games with subscription models. The cash shop isn't mentioned in the article because quite frankly, we simply don't design content on our team with the intent of the cash shop being needed to do any of it. Our bonus hope from this article was also to help explain why you should fill out those little surveys in the BWE events!

Hope that helps a bit, I know in this time after the BWE everyone is looking for more information, release dates, or wants to talk about stuff directly tied to this BWE. When this blog post was written, that information wasn't currently available, thus the content presented within.

We realize a lot of you are insanely excited at this point and just want more information period that helps get us towards release. We'll absolutely be getting more information out for all of you, but as usual with our development philosophy until we've fully tested and are happy with changes we're making, we don't want to talk about them. Keep an eye on the internets, lots more is coming from us to shed light into aspects that are probably more up the Gw2Guru fans alley, plog bosts like this content one are really intended more for the casual gaming audience to help draw more attention towards the game and its development.

All the best and thanks again for all your comments everyone! (Insert obligatory smile)
-Colin

This post makes me feel better but probably for a different reason than for most. I am very glad to hear (as I had previously assumed, but wasn't completely sure) that the systems/content design team isn't responsible for the cash shop design changes. As an aspiring game designer, hearing this reassures me that at least the people I look up to the most have good intentions still (like were previously portrayed to us for years through previous blog posts).

It doesn't fix some of the issues with the changes to design that have been made to facilitate the cash shop, but it does provide me with some much needed peace of mind. I admire so much that this game is about fundamentally. It pains me to see step-backs made for the wrong reasons. At least it's out of your (the design team's) hands.

#263 Teste

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:19 AM

ArenaNet's design philosophy is great. The problem is that they are too willing to compromise on some things.

The success of the current MMOs comes from fooling players into believing that features made to be time sinks are actually good things. Unfortunatelly, a very large part of MMO players have been so well indoctrinated that they demand those features, regardless of how they are not fun or good for a game, no matter what MMO they are going to play. So far, ArenaNet has been trying to catter to those MMO players and to everyone else, but the result is usually something "meh" to both sides.

A great example is the high level cap. ArenaNet increased the level cap in GW2, a move clearly made focusing the MMO players who believe that how much content the game has is measured by how many levels characters have (despite how those same players claim that the real fun begins at the level cap). At the same time, they made levelling largely irrelevant by adding level downscalling. The thing is, players from classic MMOs complain about how their characters are not powerful enough to one shot low level enemies (despite how one-shoting low level enemies isn't fun, but hey, those players have been taught that there are things more important than having fun), and everyone else complains about having an outdated mechanic such as levelling. Both sides are not going to be fully pleased.

ArenaNet is never going to please everyone. They should try to stick to their core philosophies, and give up on trying to please players who are aiming for a completely opposite gaming experience. Which means, a large part of those posting in this topic would find themselves in the group that simply isn't the target of ArenaNet with GW2. But that would make the game considerably better than it is today.

#264 Havana Crab

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:28 AM

View PostTeste, on 20 June 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

A great example is the high level cap. ArenaNet increased the level cap in GW2, a move clearly made focusing the MMO players who believe that how much content the game has is measured by how many levels characters have (despite how those same players claim that the real fun begins at the level cap). At the same time, they made levelling largely irrelevant by adding level downscalling. The thing is, players from classic MMOs complain about how their characters are not powerful enough to one shot low level enemies (despite how one-shoting low level enemies isn't fun, but hey, those players have been taught that there are things more important than having fun), and everyone else complains about having an outdated mechanic such as levelling. Both sides are not going to be fully pleased.
The bigger numbers don't actually represent anything, as they could have made each level take four times as long and give four times the benefit.  Then level 20 would be level 80.  Still I guess you're right that just having the bigger number there could mean something to players of other MMO's.  It's just that having the bigger number really doesn't do anything bad to us GW1 players who are used to twenty being max.

#265 Tagat

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:33 AM

I have played over 75 hours of GW2(2 BWE,1 stress test) (FYI "/age" works in GW2 beta just like GW1) I had fun 90% of the time. I did not use the gem shop much.( I did the first BWE to see how the XP Boost worked for 1/2 the day Sat but not so much the second event) I enjoyed myself and think A-Net is meeting my expectations.(BETA is BETA) I know that much will change from BWE to BWE to Launch. I for one trust A-Net just as much(if not More) as I did when I first saw the Manifesto video. I could not ask for a more open dev group than A-Net. Sure they have changed some stuff in a slightly different way than I expected on certain issues but I am having fun Playing GW2 none-the-less. As long as I am having fun I will play my ass off. When I stop having fun I will stop playing. I see all the complaints, some very valid, others not so much, but this thing is still in BETA. They have changed so much,(some good some not so much), but they are listening to our feed back and keep tweaking the games as much as humanly possible and are working to a happy medium IMHO. Thanks again A-Net for letting me being able to help is this process. So far my only suggestion is to increase the Mystic key drop rate to More evenly reflect the Mystic box drop rate. :devil: ;) (Just my 2 cents.. Probably worth less)

#266 neurojame

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:41 AM

Colin, thank you for the information. One thing though, if you want to measure fun you have to understand what fun is..
Fun= Novelty. We are by nature novelty seeking creatures. Random events in dungeons, changing dynamic events, an unexpected talking dog(skyrim) each increases the novelty of an event and is therefore seen as fun. Those events we have done in other games (kill 10 rats etc.) are not seen as fun because they are not novel. Increase the randomness within the world, the unexpected twists and turns of a storyline, increase the unexpected and you increase the novelty and thus increase the fun. I will now climb back up to the top of my mountain to meditate :P

#267 lolabunnie

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:44 AM

View PostRoth, on 19 June 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

No Colin, PvP rewards chests are not fun.

LOL Those exact words were going through my head when I read :

Quote

Fun impacts decisions.

Every time you finish a dungeon you get tokens you can trade in for reward items that you want, rather than having a small chance of getting it as a drop, because it’s more fun to always get rewarded for finishing with something you want to have!


^ Except for PVP, apparently.

Edited by lolabunnie, 20 June 2012 - 02:45 AM.


#268 Hessarian

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:48 AM

Holy crap the devs come on here and post? sheesh better watch what I say now :P

edit: I really appreciate the post Colin made on here though. Like a sir.

Edited by Hessarian, 20 June 2012 - 02:49 AM.


#269 Geikamir

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 02:53 AM

View Postlolabunnie, on 20 June 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

LOL Those exact words were going through my head when I read :

^ Except for PVP, apparently.

Painfully true.

#270 Zhahz

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 03:00 AM

View PostPolitoed, on 19 June 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

I am having SO MUCH fun paying for my waypoint travels/trait re-specs! Almost as much fun as I have with character-bound dyes or having to explore an area almost fully so that I am not under-levelled for the next one!

It's odd how sometimes you have to actually PLAY the game instead of just log in to instant gratification.  Earning things makes you appreciate them more, just like overcoming challenges does.  Why complain about any of the stuff you're complaining about?

Yeah, you pay trivial amounts to waypoint travel BUT the waypoint travel is instant from anywhere and gets you to easy walking distance of anywhere you want to be.  It lets you get to having fun now instead of wasting time travelling.  It's probably the most fast and efficient form of quick travel ever in an MMORPG.  The fact that GW2 has so much fun stuff to do, and that they want you to be able to get to having fun quickly instead of wasting time, is a good thing.  And you complain?

Most games that have dye systems give you what?  5, 10, maybe 20 dyes to choose from?  You get that by default in GW2.  You get drops for extra dyes.  Is it REALLY that big of a deal the way they're doing dye when you already have more color customization for your entire kit than you get in most other games?  I actually can't think of any MMORPG where you have as much color control from level 1 onward, and default palette is pretty decent - it's not like you're deprived of all types of basic colors - if the game ONLY had the basic dye palette it would still crush most systems.  You can change your color scheme anywhere, anytime, at no cost, no consumable crap to lug around.  And you complain?

Paying to respec traits is equally trivial.  All games that have some kind of respec attach some kind of cost.  Basic RPG design.  Players need money sinks, and no matter how many trivial little ones they put in, you still end up with way more money than you need eventually, unless you spend like an idiot - in which case *I* have all your money since you're feeding it to me thru player economy, and I thank you.

GW2 is not about a race to level cap then stare around wondering what to do.  IMO, if you are not exploring, doing different things (that usually give xp), and aren't taking your time and enjoying doing whatever you want to do (that isn't speed leveling like a typical formula MMO zombie) then you are playing the game incorrectly.  Relax.  Chill.  Take a moment, take 20 moments, to look around - find something to do that's fun, not something to fill the xp bar.

I really think that maximum enjoyment of GW2 will come for those who can free themselves from the bonds of the typical formula MMORPGs and accept that...yes, things can be different.  You can focus on having fun instead of constantly striving to make every game activity efficient and like a job.





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