172 replies to this topic

[CoffeeMug]

BlueTooth, on 20 June 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

UW runs are important because each person needs to pay to get into the dungeon, and every party I have ever been in, has to chip in for the CON sets used in speed runs which, costs money. All these added costs and work are investments and people want to make sure they are with a team that can work together well enough to get through the UW. Also SC groups run specific builds in order to make it "The most effective" and if one person cant hold their own, the entire party will die or wipe and you will lose the benefits of the CON set.

And this attitude is why I stopped playing GW1 endgame altogether.  It's not just the SC groups that demand the summoning stones: it's any PuG.  You have to have the right build and have already cleared it 100 times.

I've been into the UW maybe fifty or sixty times all told, usually by myself with heroes. I have the layout memorized.  And I've never cleared it.  I will never, ever get into a clear group because I can't prove that I know what I'm doing.  

If GW2 does include a decent endgame, I hope it looks nothing like GW1's endgame.

Edited by CoffeeMug, 20 June 2012 - 07:36 PM.

[Basharic]

The requirements would have to be armor, for one thing the amount of tokens you have on you will fluctuate based on if you just bought something, not to mention I doubt there is a way to show the amount of tokens you have anyway.

But to address the larger issue, don't do dungeon runs with jackasses?

Seriously, it's not like it's raiding. If a player can't scrape four in-game buddies together to run a dungeon with them I think they have bigger issues that some jerk demanding proof of ability. It's not like we have to rely on tanks or healers anymore. I'm as about as anti-social as they come and even I'm going to have at least a half-dozen guildies around.

There is no reason to EVER go on a dungeon run with people you don't like in GW 2. Except of course if you are a masochist.

[iniside]

RazeBloodgrin, on 20 June 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Actually this has sort of happened already (except for the token part). During the BWE2 people kept LF casters for catacombs because they already had a guardian, warrior and/or a thief ect ect. I suppose it's unavoidable.

Well I personally didn't cared. Just been spamming LFM for and invited anyone willing to join. If I meet idiots I won't play with them again. And if I meet nice people they will be on my Friend List.

One thing everyone must learn is "if you know how to count, count on yourself". Which means if you need group, make one. It's very easy in GW2 at least ;p.

[BlueTooth]

CoffeeMug, on 20 June 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

And this attitude is why I stopped playing GW1 endgame altogether.  It's not just the SC groups that demand the summoning stones: it's any PuG.  You have to have the right build and have already cleared it 100 times.

I've been into the UW maybe fifty or sixty times all told, usually by myself with heroes. I have the layout memorized.  And I've never cleared it.  I will never, ever get into a clear group because I can't prove that I know what I'm doing.  

If GW2 does include a decent endgame, I hope it looks nothing like GW2's endgame.

I agree, I hope there is a different attitude towards things like that.
Luckily I run with a pretty laid back group and the first lvl 30-35 dungeon was not too difficult for some of my more casual guild mates. So I am not too worried about it. Considering its only a 5 man group It wasn't difficult to gather enough people for a group.

[Krazzar]

Or you could, I don't know, just go in the dungeon and figure it out as a group like the game is designed instead of waiting outside for the "perfect group" to appear. You might even have some of that mythical fun Anet keeps going on about. Even if you have the "perfect group" you might not succeed, there's no reason to waste the time unless you have severe OCD, in which case, good luck.

Edited by Krazzar, 20 June 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[KodakMoment]

dss_live, on 20 June 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

How can a seperate currency affect how you form a party of dungeons? I mean, seriously. People get dumber by the second

People don't like noobs in their party when clearing dungeons ever played gw1? Try looking for a DoA/UW run without being a specific class and a specific build oh and you need items like essence/power stone/candies I fear that this will eventually happen with gw2 not at first though.

Edited by KodakMoment, 20 June 2012 - 04:54 PM.

[Hawklost]

The problem with worrying about people in game 'requiring' different stats/classes/items/levels/ability mixes/color/ect... is this.  There is really only ONE way to fix it.  Don't let people pick their groups when they enter a dungeon.  Other than that, people will always discriminate in some way.  

How do you stop people who say that they will only run with lvl 80s?
How do you stop people from saying they only want to run with a Ele?
How do you even stop people from wanting to only run with people in Blue Armor?

The answer is, if you allow people to group up beforehand to enter a dungeon, you can't.  Not without putting restrictions on the dungeon in the first place.

So yea, sometime in the future, you might run into some jerk/spd run group who won't take you because you don't have exactly what they want.  There is nothing wrong with the game because people do this.  That just means people are being selfish, or shouldn't be looking for PuGs in the first place.

Edited by Hawklost, 20 June 2012 - 05:01 PM.

[Itharius]

Of course people are going to demand some sort of prerequisite for a pick-up group to a hard dungeon. You know how many hastily formed PUGs I've been in in other MMOs that have been absolutely frustrating because of a lack of skill and/or gear? Nobody who has ever played any other MMO before should be angry that people are asking for certain classes or gear requirements for PUGs. If you want to be carried through content, join a guild and make some friends.

The content should not be dumbed down like it is in WoW. Instead, guilds should be emphasized more, so that new players are more inclined to join one. Once you've found people to play with, group composition will take care of itself.

Edited by Itharius, 20 June 2012 - 05:12 PM.

[Red_Falcon]

I don't think this is a GW2 issue but rather a PuG issue.

It is inevitable - no matter how much any game tries to prevent it - that players who had bad experiences with PuGs will demand for proofs of experience.
There is simply no getting away from this as it's a thing that's soiled in PuG mentality.
Even in real life if you're making a team for any sport and there are unknown people, most will question them about their skills.
Honestly, I'm one of those people.
Not obsessive like others, but I demand at least a minor proof of "I'm not 12 playing with my feet while mommy yells at me and I will DC halfway".

This is why we have guilds anyways.
Multiguilds wins this match as you can befriend several guilds and find teams easier, where people might not necessarily require anything.

[Alaroxr]

Erm... dungeon tokens = soulbound. You can't trade them. You would have to take people on their word about how many they have. Not to mention if they spent the tokens then it's distributed throughout different gear they bought, and you would have fashion shows before every run to make sure people weren't lying. For this to work, you wouid have to see all the different gear a person has to prove they've run all the dungeons they said they have. Then there's the issue if people don't want to spend a LOT of tokens just to prove they've run X dungeons. It's just not going to happen.

But really, if you have 5 random friends then this isn't a problem. If there were specific roles (tank/healer/dps) then you might have a problem if people put ridiculous requirements for their groups. Having roles means you need to wait to find people who get those roles, and because they're hard to get you have to min/max otherwise you're wasting your opportunity.

Instead you can just get 5 people, it's no problem. Let other people put dumb requirements for their groups. If you're in a guild or have friends in-game then it won't affect you.

------------------

Red_Falcon, on 20 June 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

I don't think this is a GW2 issue but rather a PuG issue.

It is inevitable - no matter how much any game tries to prevent it - that players who had bad experiences with PuGs will demand for proofs of experience.

Except there's no non-ridiculous way to prove you have experience other than to spend time before a dungeon run with everyone showing off ALL of their dungeon gear skins. This is why Guilds and friends will be more important.

Edited by Alaroxr, 20 June 2012 - 05:33 PM.

[Storm of the Ages]

I think the reason you may see something like this is because even though the game has changed the way an MMO does things, the people have yet to change.  It will take some time for people to adjust but it will happen.

As for me, once I find a stable guild I will be tying to convince people to run a dungeon with all of the same class because it would be awesome >.>  Can you imagine the chaos of 5 mesmers?  That's 20 bodies people!

[Zefiris]

Scarlet_Blossom, on 20 June 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

Statistically speaking the experienced person is better than the new person more often than it is the other way around. There are always exception to a rule, but hoping to get someone exceptionally skilled at games in general isn't how you make a party.

Also, statistically speaking, while you're there, waiting for your perfect group, I'll have cleared the dungeon already in my "sub-par" group that simply works because I'm running with people that don't want others to fill in for their low performance and, instead, think on their own.

You can have perfect runs with people that don't have everything from a dungeon. In fact, I usually find them to be more motivated, more willing to use critical thinking, and more prone to experiment, which directly leads to discovering new, better ways to handle things. In no game I played have I asked for achievements or other proof for "being 1337", never have I done more but a cursory check fo builds (clownbuild - obviously bad, unknown build that has logic behind it - 100% ok). And my runs work, usually very fast and smooth, without much waiting at all.

I pity people that are so scared of dungeons that they only want people that ran the dungeon to death. I pity people that only run a dungeon by following builds and strategies other people made to the letter. To me, that's not playing. That's aping.

Meta doesn't fall from the sky, folks. Some people, like myself, test things that fall outside what is accepted as meta. It usually works out better than the meta, because we THINK about stuff, and will eventually become the new meta. That's how the meta changes. Pioneers discover new, better ways.

Cause they play a game for fun, and don't try to ape how other people played.

"Cars? Hogwash! It has to be a carriage, with a horse! And it has to be painted red! I will never race with someone that doesn't have a red horse carriage!"

Quote

People are going to find a way.

Definitely. People always find a way to make things harder for themselves. The sad part is that it's not a sensible way to check for skill. But it's an easy way, and people scared of even minor difficulty or the unknown will jump for easy ways.

It's pitiful, it's sad, but it's also quite human. Pioneering is more fun, though, so I'll continue to have sucess my way, with less waiting

Edited by Zefiris, 20 June 2012 - 05:30 PM.

[Quinci]

Here we set yet another benefit to not allowing direct p2p trading

[shanaeri rynale]

In theory, the lack of a pure trinity should put a stop to this sort of thing game wide, but I fear it won't. Even in GW1 people assumed that you need a certain set up even though myself and others spent hours proving otherwise. It'll be the same in GW2. People will assume you need class X to do Dungeon Y because when they had an X it went so much easier and never stop to think that maybe X was just a darn good player who knew their class.

Therefore I fully expect Guardians and ele's to be most demand in GW2.. Not because they are needed, but because it is expected.. Hmm I feel an article coming on..

[Archer]

RazeBloodgrin, on 20 June 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Actually this has sort of happened already (except for the token part). During the BWE2 people kept LF casters for catacombs because they already had a guardian, warrior and/or a thief ect ect. I suppose it's unavoidable.

The problem with this is they used the word "casters."  There is melee and ranged.  Each one of those first 3 could fulfill that role of ranged, they were just choosing not to.  While the group could've been just fine getting another Warrior and Thief, they're stuck in that mindset that they could only melee as those professions.  This will iron itself out soon enough, and since we're all pretty reliant on ourselves, being melee or ranged won't matter.

Besides, if you're looking for a specific type of class or setup, you're just telling everyone that you're lacking yourself (along with everyone else in your group) as to not be able to fulfill that role.  I'll be sure to stay away from those groups, as good groups will understand that everyone needs to be flexible.

Off topic:  It's "etc." not "ect."  Etc stands for "et cetera."  Unless of course, you were meaning to refer to Electroconvulsive Therapy.  

[ariod]

Milennin, on 20 June 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Send it back and forth through mail.

They aren't tradeble. I have played other MMO's with this system and it has never resulted into something like the GW1 summoning stones. GW1's community was very elitist. I doubt this will happen with GW2 and the armor token system is nothing new to GW2, and has never been a way of measuring status or skill.

RazeBloodgrin, on 20 June 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Actually this has sort of happened already (except for the token part). During the BWE2 people kept LF casters for catacombs because they already had a guardian, warrior and/or a thief ect ect. I suppose it's unavoidable.

Then those people forgot what game they were playing. We did a group with 4 guards and 1 ele and did just fine. people just need to get used to such a thing being viable. It's a very new concept to all of us.

[UssjTrunks]

Red_Falcon, on 20 June 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

I don't think this is a GW2 issue but rather a PuG issue.

It is inevitable - no matter how much any game tries to prevent it - that players who had bad experiences with PuGs

I've never understood this mentality. What "bad experience" can someone have with a PUG?

You usually find out if someone sucks or not within the first few minutes of a dungeon run. How hard is it to go back out and find another party member? You would "waste" 5 minutes max.

Edited by UssjTrunks, 20 June 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[Mordachai]

DUNKMASTER, on 20 June 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Which Elementalist would you prefer to take on your extremely difficult explorable Catacombs run:
Elementalist 1, who is wearing generic budget vendor gear, or Elementalist 2, who is wearing a half completed set of Catacombs dungeon armor?

You're obviously going to be biased and take Elementalist 2, and don't give me an excuse like "hurr I sensed the budget elementalists friendship energies and we used the power of love to complete the dungeon".

I would actually take the ele that was the most friendly and respectfull. For some reason i seem to lack the ability to overlook players that annoy the fudge out of me, no matter how awesome the armor is they are wearing. I play games because they are fun, not because i want to spend a few hours with a type of people i cannot stand. Thats not saying that the "budget ele" cant be a complete arse and the "awesome armor ele" cannot be a friendly player.

[dawnq]

Zefiris, on 20 June 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

Also, statistically speaking, while you're there, waiting for your perfect group, I'll have cleared the dungeon already in my "sub-par" group that simply works because I'm running with people that don't want others to fill in for their low performance and, instead, think on their own.

Id have to disagree here. I may be wrong but unlike you I have no statistics to pull from. Also what you wrote doesn't really make sense.

If said person is waiting for a perfectly experienced group who exactly would be filling in for low performance?

Wouldnt your group be the one that is most likely to pulling others along because of low performance?

Ive ran many a uwsc/doasc etc and My guild used to do random runs.  There was a massive disparity between an unchecked group that formed in less than 5mins and a group that took 10-15 minutes to form.

Majority of DC's were from "unchecked" groups. Majority of oops lagging were from "unchecked" groups. Even from successful "unchecked" groups there were disparities in time taken.

doasc is what 30-50min? an unchecked is much more to break that time and not in the good way.
--- Ontopic and off your post---

Prejudices will always exist.
When I want to complete the dungeon with optimal speed and minimum frustration/ teaching.
Mine start with
1. Friends list
2. Guildies
3. Friends Friends list.
4. Names I recognize.
5. Guilds I recognize.

6. People with the full gear of dungeon.
7. People with partial gear of dungeon.
8. People who pass the security question. something like
8.1 What condition would you use most on x boss of the dungeon?
8.2 Which of your skills apply said conditions?
8.3 Do you have all weapons for your profession? *Maximum adaptability*
9. Whoever else. *Charr

When I dont care and just doing for the lulz/ dont mind teaching etc.

1. Anyone as I would advertise I am searching for inexperienced players for the dungeon.
-----
People seem to be totally ignoring time investment. After a certain amount of time I thoroughly expect people to want to spend x amount of time doing a specific dungeon.

Mordachai, on 20 June 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

I would actually take the ele that was the most friendly and respectfull. For some reason i seem to lack the ability to overlook players that annoy the fudge out of me, no matter how awesome the armor is they are wearing. I play games because they are fun, not because i want to spend a few hours with a type of people i cannot stand. Thats not saying that the "budget ele" cant be a complete arse and the "awesome armor ele" cannot be a friendly player.

The ele that is friendly and respectful turns a dungeon that takes an average group 1hr to do into 3hrs to do vs the annoying one that does it in 1hr.

I have encountered both. Seeing as I would like to do more things than 1 dungeon for my entire gameplay session, I will take the annoying guy for 1hr and run around naked in LA with my guild afterwards and laugh on ts3/mumble.

It may be that I usually join guilds that teach runs and such that I encounter lesser experienced players more, but IF I didnt enjoy teaching and helping I would avoid most of them like the plague.

Edited by dawnq, 20 June 2012 - 06:32 PM.

[Quickfoot]

CoffeeMug, on 20 June 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

And this attitude is why I stopped playing GW1 endgame altogether.  It's not just the SC groups that demand the summoning stones: it's any PuG.  You have to have the right build and have already cleared it 100 times.

I've been into the UW maybe fifty or sixty times all told, usually by myself with heroes. I have the layout memorized.  And I've never cleared it.  I will never, ever get into a clear group because I can't prove that I know what I'm doing.  

If GW2 does include a decent endgame, I hope it looks nothing like GW2's endgame.

The number of practice runs to UW/FOW has increased lately though. But you know what the problem is? People don't wanna go through the trouble of CREATING the group. If you stand there for hours spamming: SoS lfg UWSC prac, you will not get a party easily. But if you create the group and say: UWSC Pracc GLF T1234, SPIKER, EMO, LT, Need Cons (or Have Cons), you will form a party so easily... Trust me on this one.

shanaeri rynale, on 20 June 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

In theory, the lack of a pure trinity should put a stop to this sort of thing game wide, but I fear it won't. Even in GW1 people assumed that you need a certain set up even though myself and others spent hours proving otherwise. It'll be the same in GW2. People will assume you need class X to do Dungeon Y because when they had an X it went so much easier and never stop to think that maybe X was just a darn good player who knew their class.

Therefore I fully expect Guardians and ele's to be most demand in GW2.. Not because they are needed, but because it is expected.. Hmm I feel an article coming on..

Well, for UWSC atleast there are a lot of different builds to go. I had been doing UWSC with D/A (T3 plains). Most people didnt trust me to go, but if you are really sure at your build just say: If I fail, I'll pay the cons so dont worry. That easy.

[dawnq]

CoffeeMug, on 20 June 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

And this attitude is why I stopped playing GW1 endgame altogether. It's not just the SC groups that demand the summoning stones: it's any PuG. You have to have the right build and have already cleared it 100 times.

I've been into the UW maybe fifty or sixty times all told, usually by myself with heroes. I have the layout memorized. And I've never cleared it. I will never, ever get into a clear group because I can't prove that I know what I'm doin
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? You basically just said you dont know what you are doing. 50 or 60 times and not 1 clear?

If GW2 does include a decent endgame, I hope it looks nothing like GW2's endgame.

See massive letters. also "If GW2 does include a decent endgame, I hope it looks nothing like GW2's endgame." wut?

Edited by Chalky, 20 June 2012 - 07:47 PM.

[Red Intensity]

dawnq, on 20 June 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? You basically just said you dont know what you are doing. 50 or 60 times and not 1 clear?

I've attempted Underworld with randoms and I've yet to beat it as well. The Four Horsemen trip up the group too much and it results in an insta-wipe. Also, heroes are naturally stupid, so of course, almost no one will be able to beat that area with them around. So in a way, I feela  bit bad for CoffeeMug.

*topic* From the vibes I'm getting from the times from both here and my experience with me playing the AC several times, my choices seem to be reduced to "find a guild and make some friends (not a very social person), never touch a dungeon because everyone will want experienced folks in their groups or get a refund for the game.

[Milennin]

ariod, on 20 June 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

They aren't tradeble. I have played other MMO's with this system and it has never resulted into something like the GW1 summoning stones. GW1's community was very elitist. I doubt this will happen with GW2 and the armor token system is nothing new to GW2, and has never been a way of measuring status or skill.

Sorry, my post there wasn't meant to be serious.

[ariod]

Milennin, on 20 June 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Sorry, my post there wasn't meant to be serious.

Ah okay! My bad.

[Mordachai]

dawnq, on 20 June 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

The ele that is friendly and respectful turns a dungeon that takes an average group 1hr to do into 3hrs to do vs the annoying one that does it in 1hr.

I have encountered both. Seeing as I would like to do more things than 1 dungeon for my entire gameplay session, I will take the annoying guy for 1hr and run around naked in LA with my guild afterwards and laugh on ts3/mumble.

It may be that I usually join guilds that teach runs and such that I encounter lesser experienced players more, but IF I didnt enjoy teaching and helping I would avoid most of them like the plague.

Being friendly and respectful doesnt mean someone is unskilled and that jerk that IS skilled might turn out to be someone who is utterly crap at playing well with others. I for one would rather spend 3 hours having fun then spend 1 hour being irritated. Besides that, even if the player is inexperienced but is willing to learn and you spend 3 hours having fun.. you will most likely end up with a new friend who now has some experience in the dungeon you just did.

[Quickfoot]

Red Intensity, on 20 June 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

I've attempted Underworld with randoms and I've yet to beat it as well. The Four Horsemen trip up the group too much and it results in an insta-wipe. Also, heroes are naturally stupid, so of course, almost no one will be able to beat that area with them around. So in a way, I feela  bit bad for CoffeeMug.

*topic* From the vibes I'm getting from the times from both here and my experience with me playing the AC several times, my choices seem to be reduced to "find a guild and make some friends (not a very social person), never touch a dungeon because everyone will want experienced folks in their groups or get a refund for the game.

There are about 50x more people doing UWSC Pracc runs than doing the regular one. If you really want it, go practice, but its not that easy, because its in HM and for SC=Speed Clears you need a specific build (there are some optional skills though). Its in PvXwiki, build equipment, video guides, tips, etc.

[dawnq]

Mordachai, on 20 June 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Being friendly and respectful doesnt mean someone is unskilled and that jerk that IS skilled might turn out to be someone who is utterly crap at playing well with others. I for one would rather spend 3 hours having fun then spend 1 hour being irritated. Besides that, even if the player is inexperienced but is willing to learn and you spend 3 hours having fun.. you will most likely end up with a new friend who now has some experience in the dungeon you just did.

I just gave a scenario with the friendly person being unskilled.

You also tossed in this "fun" That was not added in the original scenario.  If I recall correctly it was

1. Potentially unskilled but friendly and respectful (note nothing about skill or traiting)
vs
2. Potentially skilled person but a used douche.

Can I imply you are saying aslong as you are having "fun" you dont mind not completing an objective within a specific timeframe? / within a reasonable amount of efficiency? or at all?

Can I presume what you are saying is that you wouldnt mind if all your runs took x2-3 times longer to do then?

Note- I am asking for clarity as I am confused as to your position no sarcasm or whatever implied.
Note Pt2- Not saying going with douche person is a guarantee of successful completion or efficiency, just a potentially higher chance of it.

Red Intensity, on 20 June 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

I've attempted Underworld with randoms and I've yet to beat it as well. The Four Horsemen trip up the group too much and it results in an insta-wipe. Also, heroes are naturally stupid, so of course, almost no one will be able to beat that area with them around. So in a way, I feela  bit bad for CoffeeMug.

*topic* From the vibes I'm getting from the times from both here and my experience with me playing the AC several times, my choices seem to be reduced to "find a guild and make some friends (not a very social person), never touch a dungeon because everyone will want experienced folks in their groups or get a refund for the game.

I find this quite odd. My first uwsc I ran with an experienced group. I lied saying I knew what I was doing. I ran a youtube video on my other monitor/ days of studying pvx/gw1guru/ and we passed. No one was none the wiser. I know I am not the only one.

"From the vibes I'm getting from the times from both here and my experience with me playing the AC several times, my choices seem to be reduced to "find a guild and make some friends (not a very social person), never touch a dungeon because everyone will want experienced folks in their groups or get a refund for the game."


The problem isnt that people want to find experienced folks. The problem is people do not want to potentially waste their time. Hence why speedclears are so popular in gw1.

Quite honestly I dont buy the "not a very sociableperson" either. If you can type here you can type ingame.

I dont know of many people who jump for joy at the prospect of doing very challenging content with a totally inexperienced person.

Why is it unreasonable for a person to want to play with other experienced people?

Ever play a game called STO? Their endgame(lol) against the Borg requires the use of remodulators as the borg adapt to your weapons fire. There is no easier way to get a team to just leave the group than entering the map without a remodulator. Yet NUMEROUS people do so and still continue to. Is it not up to the people doing said activity the first time to make up their lack of experience with preparation, rather than the experienced willingly wasting time/ money (gw1 cons)/gw2(repairs) to take an inexperienced person and not use some form of screening?

Infact this may be even worse now that I think about it. How many people have never played mmo's, facebook lolgamers, etc etc are going to go in expecting to be accepted in any and all groups just because they exist.

I love the philosophy of any profession and will go with it but I will discriminate on experience when I have limited time/ lack patience. The problem is How?

The easiest probably is gear, but that is quite unreliable as it isnt a good way to determine skill. Person may have acquired gear in 10 7hr runs instead of 10 1hr runs.

Titles suffer the same thing. Hence I will fall back on my tried and proven way to get efficient fun groups that I know will succeed.

Edited by dawnq, 20 June 2012 - 07:51 PM.

[CoffeeMug]

dawnq, on 20 June 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

{snip for large font}

I forgive you.  You must have missed the part where I said I was doing it with heroes.  I inevitably wipe on or just before the horsemen, or if I screw up on the invulnerable mobs - which isn't that hard.

Also, the last line was clearly a typo.

Red Intensity, on 20 June 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

I've attempted Underworld with randoms and I've yet to beat it as well. The Four Horsemen trip up the group too much and it results in an insta-wipe. Also, heroes are naturally stupid, so of course, almost no one will be able to beat that area with them around. So in a way, I feela  bit bad for CoffeeMug.

*topic* From the vibes I'm getting from the times from both here and my experience with me playing the AC several times, my choices seem to be reduced to "find a guild and make some friends (not a very social person), never touch a dungeon because everyone will want experienced folks in their groups or get a refund for the game.

I'm hoping GW2 isn't restrained by the same mentality.  Maybe by appealing to a more casual audience, and maybe by including a dungeon finder (someday, fingers crossed), this won't be a problem.

I really, really, really like WoW's dungeon finder.

Edited by CoffeeMug, 20 June 2012 - 07:38 PM.

[Gilles VI]

This will always happen.
And I don't see a problem with it actually.

Imagine you play GW2 from the start, you did that one specific dungeon loads of times just because you like it alot, will you really take total-beginners with you when you know you won't be able to complete the dungeon with them?
If those beginners want to do it, they just group up with people that don't mind, friends or guildies.

Simple as that.

[Selaris]

UssjTrunks, on 20 June 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

I've never understood this mentality. What "bad experience" can someone have with a PUG?

You usually find out if someone sucks or not within the first few minutes of a dungeon run. How hard is it to go back out and find another party member? You would "waste" 5 minutes max.

Oh dear me. There are tons of players that have stories to tell of horrible experiences. I don't mind a PuG so long as they aren't complete and utterly disrespectful idiot. Yes sometimes you find this out before you even get started, and sometimes unfortunately you don't until you're halfway in. Othertimes you just feel so badly for the rest of the okay players in the party you try and just put up with the madness.

CoffeeMug, on 20 June 2012 - 04:05 PM, said:

And this attitude is why I stopped playing GW1 endgame altogether.  It's not just the SC groups that demand the summoning stones: it's any PuG.  You have to have the right build and have already cleared it 100 times.

I've been into the UW maybe fifty or sixty times all told, usually by myself with heroes. I have the layout memorized.  And I've never cleared it.  I will never, ever get into a clear group because I can't prove that I know what I'm doing.  

If GW2 does include a decent endgame, I hope it looks nothing like GW2's endgame.

I'd like to extend my hand and offer asisstance to you and Red if you should ever like to clear the UW or DoA.