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Loot system is out of whack?

Loot System is out of whack? whack

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#1 Plutonsvea

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:05 AM

Is it just me, or is anyone else puzzled on how the loot system is completely suprising?
This happened to me a few times during BWE2, I would be killing this ridiculously large monster, who takes a reasonable amount of time to kill, and end up getting absolutely no loot from it.
And then I go kill a River drake, and it drops a mighty sword.

I'm not sure how any of this is relevant to the game, but when I kill a river lizard, I don't expect it to drop a sword, I expect coins, or fish scales.
I understand you all enjoy it when you get awesome items from easy-to-kill monsters, but the logic behind this is quite befuddling.
I have no problem with the loot system at all, I just find it a bit odd that a four-tonne monster drops nothing, when a lizard drops a sword. Like it was conveniently holding it.

Now don't go arguing with me on how I find things that do not need to be talked about or something, and I totally agree. But If Arena Net is aiming for an immersive, believable game; then they should think about a few things.

I am in no way abusing Arena Net's strategies, I love this game, and frankly don't care what happens to the loot system. I just want to know all of your opinions.

Thanks.

#2 RedStar

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:09 AM

Maybe the River Scale ate a weak adventurer who happened to possess a sword he didn't even know how to use.

But, while it makes no sense, it's like that in a lot of game. Not only the part about monsters dropping things you can't understand how they came across to possess it, but bosses being greedy as hell too.

#3 Alaroxr

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:11 AM

If we're talking about immersion, then how do we get gold from dead enemies? Hell, how do we get half the things we do from most enemies, and how come we don't always get the same loot (in terms of items) from an identical mob?

If we're talking about adequate rewards from defeating more difficult monsters, then I agree that there needs to be a higher chance of great items dropping. However, even if the chance is something like 15% on veteran/champion enemies and 1% on normal enemies, you're still killing normal enemies at a ratio of like 100:1 to the number of veteran/champion enemies. So it's actually more likely you'll get rare items from normal enemies.

Edited by Alaroxr, 21 June 2012 - 01:12 AM.


#4 Plutonsvea

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:12 AM

View PostRedStar, on 21 June 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

Maybe the River Scale ate a weak adventurer who happened to possess a sword he didn't even know how to use.

But, while it makes no sense, it's like that in a lot of game. Not only the part about monsters dropping things you can't understand how they came across to possess it, but bosses being greedy as hell too.

So the sword was resting in it's stomach, without damaging the River scale? Forgive me if I am confused. Haha.

#5 simooshy

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:12 AM

I don't mind getting unusal items, like swords from moas and stuff. The only thing I did find odd was when I got way worse stat loot from the big, bad, boss than the moa.

#6 Frakov

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:13 AM

I see your point. Drops from monsters like lizards and moas should be salvageable items at best in addition to fangs, scales, etc. Unless that monster recently digested the weapons/armor and has an iron throat, why would it have a perfectly usable piece of equipment? I also think it's far-fetched that the equipment just happens to be lodged in the monster somewhere.

Edited by Frakov, 21 June 2012 - 01:13 AM.


#7 Alaroxr

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:14 AM

View PostFrakov, on 21 June 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

I see your point. Drops from monsters like lizards and moas should be salvageable items at best in addition to fangs, scales, etc. Unless that monster recently digested the weapons/armor and has an iron throat, why would it have a perfectly usable piece of equipment? I also think it's far-fetched that the equipment just happens to be lodged in the monster somewhere.

The same can be said even for veteran/champion enemies. Immersion has nothing to do with it, otherwise you'd have to throw out the loot systems of every MMO out there, including GW2.

#8 RedStar

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:15 AM

View PostPlutonsvea, on 21 June 2012 - 01:12 AM, said:

So the sword was resting in it's stomach, without damaging the River scale? Forgive me if I am confused. Haha.

River Scale have a very strong stomach lining. You could explode a 50 Mt bomb in their stomach and they would only feel a slight need to burp.

:P

But yeah, apart from jokes, there are not real way to defend why a monsters can drop swords or armors when they have to places to keep it.

Edited by RedStar, 21 June 2012 - 01:16 AM.


#9 Plutonsvea

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:16 AM

View Postsimooshy, on 21 June 2012 - 01:12 AM, said:

I don't mind getting unusal items, like swords from moas and stuff. The only thing I did find odd was when I got way worse stat loot from the big, bad, boss than the moa.

Yeah. Huge-ass bosses need to atleast drop something, but when it drops nothing, It's just confusing.

View PostRedStar, on 21 June 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

River Scale have a very strong stomach lining. You could explode a 50 Mt bomb in their stomach and they would also feel a slight need to burp.

:P

If so, do not judge me if I wear a river scale around my body, instead of my armour. Haha.

#10 Frakov

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:18 AM

View PostAlaroxr, on 21 June 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

The same can be said even for veteran/champion enemies. Immersion has nothing to do with it, otherwise you'd have to throw out the loot systems of every MMO out there, including GW2.

I have no problem with making veteran/champion enemies only drop salvageable items if it were higher quality salvageable items. Usable equipment has to be maintained regularly and I find it hard to believe that a ghost, skale, or spider is keeping that sword and pistol in working order.

#11 simooshy

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:19 AM

The thing I always found funniest was the drops in guild wars 1. There were all the standard things like weapons and gold drop from anything. But kill a gargoyle, and even though it's head must contain a skull, you will only get a skull like 1/2 of the time. Maybe it took damage? But the funniest is killing, for example, an Ophil Patriarch in Bogroots. It can drop two tongues. Two. Where was the other one from, and do I want to know?

#12 gobberpooper

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:19 AM

Yeah I feel the same way. There should be a lot of randomness but within reasonable limits.

#13 Rytlock Bigpaw

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:20 AM

In the borderlands there was an event to slay a copper mob (uncommon), I soloed it with my elementalist (level 7), took me almost 2 minuts and it dropped no loot.

Then later with my warrior I did a part of the story quest and got an awensome greatsword. I just picked the first mob i saw to test it and that mob dropped another greatsword but with better stats than the one I was using.

I did find the loot drop a bit messed up but since its beta, thereĀ“s still time to improve.

#14 Frakov

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:23 AM

Personally I think Monster Hunter did it best. You carve up monsters you kill and have pretty standard gathering nodes. You even had to break/cut specific parts of monsters if you wanted a specific part of them.

#15 Flavvor

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:28 AM

The loot system is fine. It's a  pecentage on what you will get. It's fine the way it is.

#16 Iron Legionnaire

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:33 AM

Having sensible drops usually makes it, well, a different kind of game. In some games it works, in some games it doesn't. The vast majority of games I played had unrealistic drops and I got used to that 14 years ago.

#17 Shamadamun

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:35 AM

Unusual items are fun to get from weak enemies every once in awhile, but big monsters should always drop something a little better - not to say they should drop rare swords every time, but extra money and maybe a few more common, at least to give the illusion that they have better loot.

#18 John F Kennedy

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:35 AM

Veterans/Champions aren't guaranteed to drop fine or higher quality items. They simply have a higher chance to. Normal mobs have a much lower chance, but since you kill so many more you're more likely to get blues, greens, and maybe even yellows off of normal mobs compared to veterans and champions.

Edit: If loot drops made sense WoW wouldn't exist.

Edited by Keoshin, 21 June 2012 - 01:36 AM.


#19 simooshy

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:37 AM

View PostShamadamun, on 21 June 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

Unusual items are fun to get from weak enemies every once in awhile, but big monsters should always drop something a little better - not to say they should drop rare swords every time, but extra money and maybe a few more common, at least to give the illusion that they have better loot.
Yeah, even if it was called "Stan the Centaur's" pistol, instead of just pistol I would be happier, no change in stats or anything :P

But that's kind of unrealistic in terms of the work required. Shame, I really wanted Stan's pistol too. :qq:

#20 Tregarde

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:41 AM

I've long since grown accostomed to loot having absolutely no logic from other games. Such as, where the heck was that wolf carying a two handed sword?

But still, I would like to see some logic to loot. Wolves should give pelts that you can salvage for lether, feathers from birds, and so on.

#21 Plutonsvea

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:48 AM

View PostTregarde, on 21 June 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

I've long since grown accostomed to loot having absolutely no logic from other games. Such as, where the heck was that wolf carying a two handed sword?

But still, I would like to see some logic to loot. Wolves should give pelts that you can salvage for lether, feathers from birds, and so on.

Yeah, but I guess we should all consider that if any of us want good loot, Like swords, staff's ect, then we should just accept the fact that "The river drake happened to have an Iron dagger and a Two handed sword."
I know it's unrealistic. But I guess GW2 is unrealistic. And that's what makes it fun to play.

#22 Tommyknocker

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:00 AM

MEH ... It's a fantasy game.

If I can suspend my disbelief long enough to play a living plant that can throw lightning bolts from my hands than I am sure I can accept the aforementioned river scale swallowing a sword.

Edited by Tommyknocker, 21 June 2012 - 02:00 AM.


#23 Zero_Soulreaver

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:04 AM

Uh that's all the fun for me. I love that it's unrealistic cuz that's what I signed up for. Games have been this way for many years.  You are not always going to get amazing loot off of boss mobs, that's the entire point. It makes you come back for more and hunt down the mobs that drop certain types of loot.

If everything dropped the same amount and type of loot then the game would be very boring and nobody would need to farm as hard.  Also if normal mobs drop only normal loot then it also gets very boring.

#24 Crunchygremlin

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:06 AM

I dont care so much about the kind of loot a mob drop although i do like it better when mobs drop stuff that is more appropriate to the mob.

In fact a like it considerably more when they drop the stuff they are carrying.

I have had some player drops in WvW though that were 25 levels too high for me.

Edited by Crunchygremlin, 21 June 2012 - 02:07 AM.


#25 simooshy

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:07 AM

View PostTregarde, on 21 June 2012 - 01:41 AM, said:

I've long since grown accostomed to loot having absolutely no logic from other games. Such as, where the heck was that wolf carying a two handed sword?

But still, I would like to see some logic to loot. Wolves should give pelts that you can salvage for lether, feathers from birds, and so on.
Thing is, you do get this stuff too. Moas drop poultry meat, sometimes even eggs, wolves can drop red meat (yum), Centaur drop little bags with the loot inside (like a pouch an adventurer would carry).

#26 eisberg

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:16 AM

What is even more confusing is when you kill something very small, and it drops a huge 2 handed axe :D

#27 Thulkrai

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:31 AM

Trash loot is okay, I understand having a higher end creature dropping better loot.

Anyone else do the Dungeon? Now that loot is ridiculous, completly lack luster.. I got more useful loot from killing as you mentioned drakes then the bosses.. Ran the instance 4 times dont think I had any loot that was worth anything,let alone an upgrade to my current gear. An instance that is lvl 30+ and i was getting level 24 gear.

Though i must admit playing with the mystic forge was quite a bit of fun, heh.

And if anyone here does the explorable dungeon mode, for the love of the gods. do not pick the human, it will only end with fist in moniter hah.

#28 Kyln

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 02:40 AM

eh. Random loot tables is a staple of online games. Sure, it doesn't always make sense. However, in terms of practice it makes sense. If only certain enemies dropped various item types, then weird farming patterns of enemies would pop up. This way you have a chance at something useful when you defeat any opponent.

#29 Krazzar

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:24 AM

I doubt the loot tables are finalized, but we'll see. Even if it is completely randomized I don't really care, it would just mean you can't focus only on the "big baddies".

#30 Black Metal

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:35 AM

I haven't seen enough of this game to make a final decision on dropped loot, but there are a few other factors that will go into my decision.

1)  The loot mechanic is totally bad, as has been well-documented in the official forums.  It is simply very difficult to see what your loot is (in big fights) and then to actually do the looting.  The most commonly recommended mechanic is an area loot pop-up box.
2)  While big bosses in the persistent areas often don't drop much if anything, they usually reward you with karma for the event, which you can trade in for whatever you want, so this is more like loot currency that you can spend any way you want.  Good thing.
3)  You can take the junk and throw it into the Lion's Arch forge thingy, and probably make something you want more once we figure that thing out.





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