56 replies to this topic

[InfiniteRetro]

First and foremost before I begin, GW1's storylines singularly outweigh anything done in gw2. the choices they talk about even regarding which faction type you choose all existed in the first game.

Let's begin the surgery:

Quote

The personal story is the storyline or main plot of Guild Wars 2 which, along with events, makes up much of PvE gameplay. The personal story is independent from random world events and is always available to follow through the game world and the events which occur there. The personal story is told through character specific instances and is personalized by decisions made before and during gameplay. There are potentially thousands of variations in the stories which can be experienced.

What I have bolded really does show and prove some of the hypocritical rubbish i've seen in certain remarks of late. For starters, when someone says they want to do the 'storyline', we are met with 'why are you playing an mmo if you want a single player experience'. Well, young and old, like any other mmo, not only can you take players with you on your questing, BUT and what is key, the "character specific instances" which IS a single player experience in the realm that other players are never required to do it.

so anyone crying about why people just want to do the storyline maybe need to put on them clown shoes and look at the fact that the storyline alone can be done singularly and is also THE most important aspect of the game.

Now we remove the tumour:

Quote

The story is played from one character's perspective for that character's story. Other players can help with another player's story but are not able to make choices which affect the outcome, though they can choose to accept the outcome as their own.^[1] The story instances scale with the number of players participating

This part made me giggle. not only have they made the storyline single player without the requirement of another player, they've also made it scalable. now heres the hilarious part. If a player chooses to do the storyline by themselves, and doesnt really do much else in the world because they truly want to do the storyline, the storyline quests will not scale to your level. when i was level 6 i was given the next storyline quest, recommended level 11. thats a helluva jump if you ask me. it also suggested i go back into the world and 'grind'. aka, do anything and everything to level up.

so no, not only does the game give you the CORE storyline quests far above your level, if you decide that exploring, crafting, skill hunting, and doing the odd renown heart and DE, you will never EVER be able to do the 'character specific instances' simply on their own merit.

basically as many others are discovering and has colin has said, the game forces you to level up constantly to keep up with whatever level is required for the next stage in your storyline. now you might love to map a zone, but so many do not, and what really astounds me is that not only have Anet failed to allow people to 'do what they want' because, you simply CANNOT do the storyline on its own merit unless you do other things you may wish not to, but that the entire philosophy of the game is counter productive. lets examine...

Levels dont matter, yet, a level 6 cannot do a level 11 quest unless i level up. levelling up requires me grinding things i may not want to do until later on in my mmo experience of the game. so that right there was a lie 100%.

The other thing which makes me laugh is the apparent near limitless amount of 'outcomes'. but as is already clear, the instanced storyline path lets you choose one or the other, just like in gw1 BUT by and large you're on a rollercoaster that occasionally allows you to change paths. what is the real con job, is that most if not all mmorpgs makes the player feel like they're important through choices or different dialect that is spoken to them etc.

why is it a con? you get 5 character slots. i read a while ago someone was willing to spend $1600 just so they could cover ALL the character choices available. character choices which really make f'all differences.

see, what people fail to realise, is that even with a single player game like Skyrim, Mass Effect etc, simply starting a 'new game' allows you to do an entirely new experience. create another save file and boom, you're done.

but they've tied it into the slots. if you're the type to believe this game truly gives you world changes based on your 'instanced' storylines, which obviously will not carry into the persistant zones and only stay relative in 'instanced areas', then Anet stand to gain a substational amount of cash from those people.

WoW has phasing, the ability to change your ENTIRE perspective on certain characters, parts of the world and they stay that way forever. if you killed a monster as part of their phased quest system, it stays dead forever. this lasts for your entire WoW experience.

Since GW2 controls every aspect of your gaming experience by claiming theres 'choices that make big differences' in the world, well, its a lie. pure and simple. more clever PR but thats all it is.

and for anyone crying i brought up Skyrim, since the storyline is instanced, since it doesnt NEED players, and is essentially a 'single player' tacted into a multiplayer, then its fair to compare it to other 'single player' rpgs out there that just wipe the floor with it.

Operation was a success, we have identified the true nature of the disease.

[Alleji]

InfiniteRetro, on 22 June 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

WoW has phasing...

Would've given you a 4/10 until I got to this part. Stopped reading right there.

Phasing is a complete abomination and created half of the problems with wrath and cata questing and using phased zones beyond questing. (The other half being "stuff is f*ing boring")

[InfiniteRetro]

Alleji, on 22 June 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

Would've given you a 4/10 until I got to this part. Stopped reading right there.

Phasing is a complete abomination and created half of the problems with wrath and cata questing and using phased zones beyond questing. (The other half being "stuff is f*ing boring")

really?i dont recall having the game stunt my progression hmm must been playing th chinese version then? lol

[RedStar]

InfiniteRetro, on 22 June 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

it also suggested i go back into the world and 'grind'. aka, do anything and everything to level up.

That's not what grind is, but you know that since I'm sure a lot of people on this forum have tried countless amount of times to make you realize that grinding is the repetition of the same exact thing. If you didn't do it once, you aren't grinding it. Even if 2 quests feels the same, doing the second one isn't grinding.

GW1 gave you choices ? Yeah...sort of. Follow Master of Whispers or go with Margrid ? Who cares, even if you follow MoW, Margrid still goes to save Kormir. And in the end, when you finish the game, you can go do the missions you missed.
Kurzick or Luxon ? You can say you are Kurzick but if you have 1 Luxon faction more, Kurzicks won't like you.

Can you give one RPG that didn't make take a break from the Main Quest because you started getting underleveled ? Maybe I played too many JRPGs, but I never played a RPG that didn't make me take a break and kill monsters or find better equipment in order to progress.

If the Main Quest was always at your level then that would mean 3 things :
-you can finish the Main Quest and be level 10 which doesn't feel...epic. Woot you just found what a trait is and yet you saved the world ?!
-you can only play the Main Quest and be level 80
-an absurd amount of quests.

[Trei]

Lord of the Rings had war, heroic acts and death? Nonsense!

I only read the first two chapters and all it has is some smurfy story about some hobbits in some smurfy village.

[Gen1tor]

1) If I got it right u want to lvl up just by doing personal qs. Ofc u have a point here but u shouldn't forget this is not a single player RPG. It's designed around community activity. So I see no point in your demand. U r only interested in a tiny portion of a massive game so why play it for starters? (I know, I h8 this argument but rlly, why?). It's like I say I detest ME3 for example because it has too much shoot-em-up content while I like the dialogue part. Illogical imo.

2) U also talk about choices. I would love to fly and one-hit every opponent in the game. Should I blame the game for not letting me do what I want? GW is not reality (for good or for bad). But definitely the "choice" aspect of this game is by far the best in the MMO market so far. Carefull! I said MMO MARKET. No more comments about it.

3) I rlly can't understand why ppl keep posting up all these raging posts about this or that, for a game that's not even finished and why, God, why I keep responding only to be called a raging fan boy. As if we 've never been tricked by a game or company be4 and Anet is devil impersonated....

[Linfang]

You assume that leveling = grinding. If you do not like to level then perhaps this game is not for you.

[Zefiris]

InfiniteRetro, on 22 June 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

my point is you cant do the 'single player' implement portion of the game if thats all you wanted to do. how is it people can just craft to level cap but i cant do the core aspect of the game by itself?

You also cannot beat the first level of "Super Mario Bros" without jumping over a pit if thats all you wanted to do.

[Milennin]

InfiniteRetro, on 22 June 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

my point is you cant do the 'single player' implement portion of the game if thats all you wanted to do. how is it people can just craft to level cap but i cant do the core aspect of the game by itself?

You can't do just craft to level cap. You also gotta gather your materials. And a lot of those materials are surrounded by mobs, so you likely have to fight as well.

[Hanzo]

You do have valid points there. But it's not gonna stop me from buying a whole bunch of character slots (maybe just 3). Although I think the "big differences to the world"-part is about the dynamic events, not the personal story.

[InfiniteRetro]

Gen1tor, on 22 June 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

1) If I got it right u want to lvl up just by doing personal qs. Ofc u have a point here but u shouldn't forget this is not a single player RPG. It's designed around community activity. So I see no point in your demand. U r only interested in a tiny portion of a massive game so why play it for starters? (I know, I h8 this argument but rlly, why?). It's like I say I detest ME3 for example because it has too much shoot-em-up content while I like the dialogue part. Illogical imo.

2) U also talk about choices. I would love to fly and one-hit every opponent in the game. Should I blame the game for not letting me do what I want? GW is not reality (for good or for bad). But definitely the "choice" aspect of this game is by far the best in the MMO market so far. Carefull! I said MMO MARKET. No more comments about it.

3) I rlly can't understand why ppl keep posting up all these raging posts about this or that, for a game that's not even finished and why, God, why I keep responding only to be called a raging fan boy. As if we 've never been tricked by a game or company be4 and Anet is devil impersonated....

personal story, THE advertised main portion of the game is stunted by the fact its the ONLY thing you cannot do over and over again. you must do everything, or grind some things to keep up. thats de-evolution of mmo'ing in my opinion. every mmo has a storyline you can follow. since the storyline is instanced, its like gw1, where its only your perception aka, single player. and yet you cant even just do that.

Linfang, on 22 June 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

You assume that leveling = grinding. If you do not like to level then perhaps this game is not for you.

saying that is the equivilant of telling people who dont like what they see to piss off. very mature and im sure arenanet would be proud their fanbase are affecting their income but acting like this.

[RedStar]

InfiniteRetro, on 22 June 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

my point is you cant do the 'single player' implement portion of the game if thats all you wanted to do. how is it people can just craft to level cap but i cant do the core aspect of the game by itself?

Maybe it's because it's a MMORPG. And it's not the core aspect of the game.

At least, if you want to craft you have be in a world surrounded by other people.

[Haishao]

You must level up to do stuff of higher level!
Who would have thought?

[Vorch]

I've played GW1 extensively (Character: Vorch De Asph) I respect your opinion, but I am really having trouble seeing your point.

Are you upset that you can't JUST do the story line without playing other parts of the game because you would be underleveled?

I kind of play GW2 the same way I play Skyrim: I try to do as much as I can and do parts of the main story line in between. I find it kind of ironic that you bring Skyrim up, though...try doing JUST the main story line in the game and see if you can beat Alduin. Like GW2, the game was made with the assumption that you would at least make an effort to try and experience as much of the world around you as possible.


-----------------------------
And how does GW1 outweigh GW2's storyline? Your choices in GW1 were kind of "fake". In Factions, in order to get some titles you needed to do ALL of the missions with their bonuses. That means doing missions for the kurzicks even if you were luxon and vice-versa (still an awesome game though.)

[InfiniteRetro]

Milennin, on 22 June 2012 - 10:46 AM, said:

You can't do just craft to level cap. You also gotta gather your materials. And a lot of those materials are surrounded by mobs, so you likely have to fight as well.

hang on....WRONG. you can buy everything you want from the market place/auction house. you just buy gems, convert to gold and you never need to face a single enemy.

[MrIllusion]

The level of the Personal Stories coincide with the level of the area that it takes place in. If they all took place at the starting area, then I'd agree that the level requirement is too arbitrary.

[TrikkiOne]

InfiniteRetro, on 22 June 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

my point is you cant do the 'single player' implement portion of the game if thats all you wanted to do. how is it people can just craft to level cap but i cant do the core aspect of the game by itself?

Nothing you bolded says anything about levelling to 80 on personal story alone.

In fact, quite the opposite, it says:

along with events, makes up much of PvE gameplay

I still don't get your point, its like you're creating an argument out of nothing for no reason.

Then you say this:

Quote

hang on....WRONG. you can buy everything you want from the market place/auction house. you just buy gems, convert to gold and you never need to face a single enemy.

So? To what end? You get to 80...and you suck at the game...and have missed out of 90% of the adventuring fun.


Anyway, wasted enough posts on this silly thread, Good luck to you, I'd suggest buying a single player game next time.

Edited by TrikkiOne, 22 June 2012 - 10:53 AM.

[Sothis]

InfiniteRetro, on 22 June 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

thats de-evolution of mmo'ing in my opinion. every mmo has a storyline you can follow. since the storyline is instanced, its like gw1, where its only your perception aka, single player. and yet you cant even just do that.

I must have played the wrong MMO's then. I haven't played a single MMO where only the storyline quests granted me enough xp to level only with them and complete the story.

Edited by Sothis, 22 June 2012 - 10:57 AM.

[Gen1tor]

InfiniteRetro, on 22 June 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

personal story, THE advertised main portion of the game is stunted by the fact its the ONLY thing you cannot do over and over again. you must do everything, or grind some things to keep up. thats de-evolution of mmo'ing in my opinion. every mmo has a storyline you can follow. since the storyline is instanced, its like gw1, where its only your perception aka, single player. and yet you cant even just do that.

Hmm I think some1 is misled to believe we are talking about SWtOR. DEs yes they are the most advertised part of the game. The revolutionary skill system is another. Personal story is just an interesting addition. But most advertised. No sir. Nevah!

[RedStar]

InfiniteRetro, on 22 June 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

saying that is the equivilant of telling people who dont like what they see to piss off. very mature and im sure arenanet would be proud their fanbase are affecting their income but acting like this.

Normally I'd agree, but really...leveling is a part that touches all the PvE portion of the game...if you don't like to wander the world, then this game really isn't for you.

In GW1 everyone had pretty much the same storyline, except those rare times when the game made you grind the Sunspear rank if you were from Elona...

And the main advertised portion of the game are DEs and 5 man dungeons.

[Ritualist]

Yeah, levelling is handled really poorly in GW2.

Edited by Politoed, 22 June 2012 - 10:56 AM.

[InfiniteRetro]

Vorch, on 22 June 2012 - 10:49 AM, said:

I've played GW1 extensively (Character: Vorch De Asph) I respect your opinion, but I am really having trouble seeing your point.

Are you upset that you can't JUST do the story line without playing other parts of the game because you would be underleveled?

I kind of play GW2 the same way I play Skyrim: I try to do as much as I can and do parts of the main story line in between. I find it kind of ironic that you bring Skyrim up, though...try doing JUST the main story line in the game and see if you can beat Alduin. Like GW2, the game was made with the assumption that you would at least make an effort to try and experience as much of the world around you as possible.


-----------------------------
And how does GW1 outweigh GW2's storyline? Your choices in GW1 were kind of "fake". In Factions, in order to get some titles you needed to do ALL of the missions with their bonuses. That means doing missions for the kurzicks even if you were luxon and vice-versa (still an awesome game though.)

Arenanet have said constantly you have choice, you can do whatever you want. you can map out entire zones, visit other starting zones to farm xp just to keep up. if you dont do all this, you have to grind a few things over and over again. so, no, you entire do all, or grind some. and lets consider this:

1) you can grind to level cap by just crafting (buying with real money the gems, convering to gold then buying materials) never even fighting a mob

2) you can level cap in WvWvW

3) you can level cap mapping entire zones

4) you can level cap grinding DE's

5) BUT...you cannot do the storyline, a purely instanced portion of the game that claims to scale depending on players present (which means if im all there is, it doesnt scale, which also proves that line "levels dont matter in gw2" when it damn well does.

see my point? They're pimping this epic storyline but then gimping it to make you look elsewhere.i can play any other mmo and focus purely on the storyline questing system.

and for the clowns that think i dont know theres other stories out there, yes dears, there are, just like every other mmo ever created.

[Kogarasumaru]

InfiniteRetro, on 22 June 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Levels dont matter, yet, a level 6 cannot do a level 11 quest unless i level up. levelling up requires me grinding things i may not want to do until later on in my mmo experience of the game. so that right there was a lie 100%.

I did, so why can't you? Granted, I thought it was impossible until I noticed the NPCs don't spawn back so you can pretty much go at it over and over.

[InfiniteRetro]

RedStar, on 22 June 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

Normally I'd agree, but really...leveling is a part that touches all the PvE portion of the game...if you don't like to wander the world, then this game really isn't for you.

In GW1 everyone had pretty much the same storyline, except those rare times when the game made you grind the Sunspear rank if you were from Elona...

And the main advertised portion of the game are DEs and 5 man dungeons.

should i start posting videos where its the trailer for guild wars 2? im not talking stupid blog videos im talking the trailers that are online, the ones they will play on tv, game sites to get people interested. people play rpgs for story, not rip off questing systems over glorified like they are somehow new.

Kogarasumaru, on 22 June 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

I did, so why can't you? Granted, I thought it was impossible until I noticed the NPCs don't spawn back so you can pretty much go at it over and over.

so you agree giving a player, especially someone who may not be that well versed or terribly good at mmos, to give them such a massive gap in questing that they constantly get one shotted? and you're ok with this?

[RedStar]

InfiniteRetro, on 22 June 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

see my point? They're pimping this epic storyline but then gimping it to make you look elsewhere.i can play any other mmo and focus purely on the storyline questing system.

Maybe because ANet kind of wants to player to really see what other problems the world is facing ?

You can pull any trailer you want, as long as you don't cut them to only the part you want, because it's been ages since I watched a trailer for GW2.

There is a personal story, based on choices such as saving a hospital or an orphanage, then there's what's happening in the world, and then there are the dungeons.

[Kogarasumaru]

InfiniteRetro, on 22 June 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

so you agree giving a player, especially someone who may not be that well versed or terribly good at mmos, to give them such a massive gap in questing that they constantly get one shotted? and you're ok with this?

I'm ok with this. Mainly because players who aren't "terribly good" will go grind by themselves to learn the mechanics of the game in the first place. I don't see why people want an easy storyline.

[Arngrim Einheri]

I thought the cake was the lie... Now more seriously, you have to understand that GW2 at core is not a singleplayer game with multiplayer options, is totally the the opposite a multiplayer game with singleplayer options and being a multiplayer game means that you may have to do the common things a multiplayer game requires you to do (leveling up, upgrading equipment etc, etc).

[Killyox]

InfiniteRetro, on 22 June 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

my point is you cant do the 'single player' implement portion of the game if thats all you wanted to do. how is it people can just craft to level cap but i cant do the core aspect of the game by itself?

It's an MMO first and foremost. If you expect MMO to not be an MMO well there is problem with your logic.

Edited by Killyox, 22 June 2012 - 11:04 AM.

[InfiniteRetro]

RedStar, on 22 June 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Maybe because ANet kind of wants to player to really see what other problems the world is facing ?

You can pull any trailer you want, as long as you don't cut them to only the part you want, because it's been ages since I watched a trailer for GW2.

There is a personal story, based on choices such as saving a hospital or an orphanage, then there's what's happening in the world, and then there are the dungeons.

i dont fabricate crap to win an argument or discussion. even the first trailer talking about the dragons and the races combining forces pushes the 'story' as the main focus, since many will say, gw1 story was really well done. but not once in gw1 did i get hindered on doing the storyline, which, again, was instanced even when you bring other players. but in gw2, they're pushing the story as in the 'media' with its trailers etc, yet its the ONLY aspect you simply cannot do alone at any level.

do you think when i finished gw1 i didnt want to go back into the world and explore? you think that happens in WoW, Rift? SW? Age of Conan, LOTRO, Ultima Online, Warhammer, AIon, practically any mmo or rpg type game? you think that if people could just do the gw2 story they wouldnt want to do anything else ?

i think anyone that thinks that then believes anet needs to hand hold us and force their game upon us. play our way or gtfo basically.

Kogarasumaru, on 22 June 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

I'm ok with this. Mainly because players who aren't "terribly good" will go grind by themselves to learn the mechanics of the game in the first place. I don't see why people want an easy storyline.

so you admit there is grind in gw2. an element Anet have said themselves you wouldnt ever experience. gotcha. thank you for proving anet couldnt string a viable sentence of truth together if they tried.

Edited by Naut, 22 June 2012 - 12:09 PM.

[Lethality]

Well, it's not intended that you can level _just_ based on personal story. So they won't scale you up to accommodate that.That's not reasonable because it's not a single player game... nor does that lengthen the time you're in game or create reasons for you to use the cash shop.

I personally love how the personal story (and remember, we've only seen it up to level 20) is presented... you choose things at character creation that affect the core personal story, and there are little choices along the way that customize it further. But it doesn't shove it down your throat. As a matter of fact you can ignore it if you wanted, and go back and do it any time thanks to the scaling.