138 replies to this topic

[Kyonyo]

Even in gw2 there is no trinty still professions are a bit better in different things. And pretty much every mmo where u have roles still u can get only as like tank to hardest dungeons since ur heal spec is not as good as other classes.
I am pretty sure that this will also happen in gw2 maybe not in wvwvw or casual dungeons and spvp.. But in tpvp if u want to be top team in your server or beat the hardest dungeon in game then only some builds will be good enough for every proffession.
Atleast for guardian it feels that there wont be many offensive ones in top tpvp teams ( cant really say about dungeons)

Tl dr What you guys think about when game is released what kind of meta roles there will be for every profession?
(there might be some grammar fails since i wrote this with my phone hopefully it is read able^^)

[Harleh]

Eventually someone will find a set of professions that will work smoothly together. There may be no holy trinity in this game but I do see some professions not being as desirable in your dungeon group as others.

If Mesmer clones and illusions actually start pulling agro effectively I think they will be a big part of the game.
Tome of Courage Guardian will be another big part of dungeon groups.
Elementalist for high AoE is another profession that wont go unnoticed.

Now the Warrior and Necromancer are tricky ones. Why wont the Warrior become the tank? Because even heavy armour classes get hit hard in close quarters combat. Guild Wars 2 is more about kiting than standing still and taking it (Why I think clones will take their place). I plead ignorance when it comes to the Necromancer and it's minions. No idea how powerful they are, if they hold agro and how often you can churn them out.


As for the Ranger, Thief and Engineer. I see these as professions that wont be particularly sought after. None of them have elites that stand out to me, none of them are damage deals like the Elementalist and none of them have summons like the Necromancer and Mesmer.

TL;DR - Mesmers, Elementalists and Guardians will be the sought after professions. Necromancers and Warriors will be in medium demand and Rangers, Thieves and Engineers will be the pugs waiting outside the dungeon looking for a melting pot group.

[RabidusIncendia]

As far as Dungeon PvE my guess is...

Rangers will just kill things
Warriors just kill things
Mesmers will be used for retaliation
Eles will AoE heal and attack
Necros will be used to spread conditions on high level mobs.
Guardians and Engineers will.. DUH seriously.
Thieves will suck

[Skyline Crash]

RabidusIncendia, on 22 June 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

As far as Dungeon PvE my guess is...

Rangers will just kill things
Warriors just kill things
Mesmers will be used for retaliation
Eles will AoE heal and attack
Necros will be used to spread conditions on high level mobs.
Guardians and Engineers will.. DUH seriously.
Thieves will suck

Thieves won't be that bad. High single target dps for when you are fighting bosses. The thief just has to be careful. Also, the shortbow has strong aoe.

[SunRoamer]

I feel that thieves can have amazing support as well. Pistol offhand with some means to regenerate initiative more quickly can pretty effectively shut bosses down (smoke combo field). Besides, you have utility skills which allow for even more smoke and dark combo fields to constantly keep a strong enemy blinded.

[Windmoor]

I know there is no trinity, but I have a ranger that is extreemly tanky and plays melee. Utilizing my cc and rooting makes getting in hitting getting out and back, extreemly easy.

On that note; I've only played in WvWvW, cause I don't want to ruin my game on release. But there are many mobs, including rare elite spawns that I've tackled in my time in WvW.

[lolabunnie]

Harleh, on 22 June 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

snip

(I'm just talking about Dungeons / PVE)

Necromancer's have one of the most potent AOE heals in the game and they're not squishy (which means they can take care of themselves pretty well, which is pretty big in Dungeons), not to mention their support options are pretty solid. They'll have a good place in dungeons, no doubt.

Ranger's also have a solid support build which can provide the group with buffs (damage reduction, increased DPS, conditions-on-hit, speed increase). Their "Spirit of Nature" is also a strong group-oriented Elite, which brings heals, condition removal and revives (again, a big deal in Dungeons). They also have very good single target DPS (boss fights).

Engineer is in the same boat as Ranger.

Actually, the only profession that comes to mind that would be the least sought after would be the Thief. Personally, I find them very, very, VERY squishy in dungeons. Most of the time they're forced to utilize their ranged more than anything. I also don't think they offer anything "strong" to the group that players couldn't find elsewhere. If I had to choose between a Warrior and a Thief, I would pick a Warrior hands down.

[ShezuTsukai]

The thief will continue to be overlooked until their potential to combo, condition, and shutdown bosses is realized.

We did AC with a four man team of Mes, Ranger, Engineer, and my Thief. The synergy and teamwork between all classes made for fun and exciting game play. None of the classes died more than the others and the roles continually changed based on health and cd's.

I think the roles each will play in competitive play will depend on the team's style.
Are they going to lock in to jobs and try to recreate the trinity or are they going to embrace the GW2 concept and flow from role to role as the situation dictates.

[Milennin]

The role of the Elementalist will be to kick ass.

[illumix]

Harleh, on 22 June 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

...

As for the Ranger, Thief and Engineer. I see these as professions that wont be particularly sought after. None of them have elites that stand out to me, none of them are damage deals like the Elementalist and none of them have summons like the Necromancer and Mesmer.

Well uhm... Thief and engineer can create group stealth. Thief has high damage and should very hard to finish off in pve,
due to there downed skills. Engineer has alot of skills that are Aoe focused and have many support skills. I'm not sure
how good ranger is but it seems populair and spirits are probably a nice addition.

To me it seems like if you want to be effective in a group, your focus should be combo fields and finishers
along with Aoe attacks/support and a resurrect utility wouldn't hurt your chances.

[Hanzo]

I'm kinda worried about playing thief in the sense of group-play. Thieves get away with pretty much anything, BUT. When I stealth, my friend suddenly becomes the sole target of foes and that's not pretty. To be honest, I don't see why anyone would want a thief in their team.

[kilger]

I've heard also that thieves are 100% essential for later dungeons as no one can sustain the same single target damage nearly as good...

[Havoc]

Harleh, on 22 June 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

-snip-
Tome of Courage Guardian will be another big part of dungeon groups.
-snip

In the last BWE, there were already groups spamming "LF Guardian!" The trinity is not dead.  Now "LF Healer" has become LF Guardian".

[justaguy]

I saw a video where a Necromancer was used as a very effective "tank" because of death shroud (the necro can just switch over to avoid a death if the boss gets too close). At the same time, abilities that allow you to absorb all conditions from allies and use them to either heal yourself or transfer to the mob seems very useful. And they are good dpsers.

My engineer felt very versatile. Healing was a big deal, but I could also apply a lot of control effects via the bomb kit/turrets (which could also take the bosses attention in some cases). DPS was solid - maybe a little low (but that was probably just my build).


I saw a similar balance on the guardian and the ranger, even though ranger pets could still use some love.

I think the idea of every profession being viable is something they can achieve. Its just a matter of balance right now.

Of course, there will always be people demanding that professon XYZ be in every group. I call that being shortsighted and unwilling to try something new. Even if you end up with a group that isnt the "ideal" you should look at it as a challenge and new way to enjoy the experience.

[Vampireiv]

kilger, on 22 June 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

I've heard also that thieves are 100% essential for later dungeons as no one can sustain the same single target damage nearly as good...

Thieves have the stealth witch might be why.

Iv been playing a ranger and there high dps but the thief can be a hand full because of the stealth in 1v1. And pets can dps as well if you can micro your heal that heals you and your pet and keep your pets hp up its a little more work but if you can pull it off your pet can do some huge damage I forgot the skill but it buffs your pets size and attacks and the elite skill that puts the ranger and pet in a rage and my pet hit a crit of 520, 320,150 in a row when I hit the F2 attack. And rangers are high dps with a sword as well.

The ranger will be that class I feel that will be dps but it is very much of what Anet said it was its a master of all trades its just which one you need at the time.

[gobberpooper]

This will be something that will be quickly discovered after launch. People are spending time enjoying as much of the game as they can during these short 3-day or 3-hour events. Not much effort has been put towards optimizing builds and creating a metagame, which is good because as far as we know they could change half the traits and skills by launch.

Havoc, on 22 June 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

In the last BWE, there were already groups spamming "LF Guardian!" The trinity is not dead.  Now "LF Healer" has become LF Guardian".

I think it's because the guardian is the most obvious support profession. After all, it's a combination of Monks and Paragons. One or two half-decent monks could keep a team of 8 alive forever, and a paragon could reduce all incoming damage by like 85%. But in actuality, necros and engies can be just as supportive if not moreso. Necro has skills like Spectral Wall and Well of Power which are quite effective, and Engies have their Med Kit and Elixir Gun and such. Warriors can even be pretty good team players if they spec into banners, even if its by providing defense by improving offense.

[dawnq]

Ill take another ele over another guardian any-day.

My preferred group? 4 Elementalists 1 Guardian/Warrior Or 3 Elementalists 1 War/Guard 1 Thief

I havent had much experience with Necro's so they "MAY" be able to be substituted.  The sheer amount of control that Ele's have made the catacomb* (ty gobber* dungeon much less dangerous.

Why guardian? Ive found they need the least support. Damage somewhat mehish.

Why thief?  Given proper support watching a thief flip around like a crackhead whilst doing ludicrous amounts of damage is wonderful.

Why warrior? The combo's, the damage, the support. They are nice and well rounded.

Rangers - I never truly knew what they were doing.  I need to look at their skills more. All I saw was nonstop pew pew pew *Lovely spirit thingy pew pew pew.  Now I'm sure they were contributing I just couldnt really feel it.

A guardian you can see the walls the bubbles etc. Thief is shanking stuff and twittering around like a butterfly.
Ele well unless said ele is afk, you will know an ele is around. Rangers just couldnt easily tell.

Mesmers Im quite torn. The illusions are nice the damage and contribution and I could easily see but sometimes the darn things confused me.

In the heat of battle
Me- OH CRAP HOW YOUR HP SO LOW!!! Healing splash
Illusion -poof butterflies  
Mesmer- You mad?

Havent encountered a engineer nor a necromancer in the catacombs yet.
*note what server were you guys on with the LF Guardian and stuff? I was in Kain and saw none of that.

Edited by dawnq, 22 June 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[gobberpooper]

dawnq, on 22 June 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

The sheer amount of control that Ele's have made the dungeons much less dangerous.

Catacombs much less dangerous.* You could take an entire group of any profession and probably do well.

[dawnq]

gobberpooper, on 22 June 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

Catacombs much less dangerous.* You could take an entire group of any profession and probably do well.

If you glanced at the official forums you will find alot of people would disagree. *note I thoroughly agree.

well actually no.

5 thief's? I dont know. Based on what people say about them it seems doubtful but I lack proper experience with them to draw an educated opinion.

[gobberpooper]

dawnq, on 22 June 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

If you glanced at the official forums you will find alot of people would disagree. *note I thoroughly agree.

well actually no.

5 thief's? I dont know. Based on what people say about them it seems doubtful but I lack proper experience with them to draw an educated opinion.

Thieves can take down single opponents quite well. With 5, they could be quick and efficient. With proper group play they could be very formidable and use combos to frequently sneak

[Samhayn]

I don't know about most people but I will be playing my guardian they way I want too and to hell with anyone who thinks I need to be purely support just because someone else thinks we are the class best at it.

[Spatzimaus]

Havoc, on 22 June 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

In the last BWE, there were already groups spamming "LF Guardian!"

Only because those people were idiots.

Most likely, what you saw were people who wanted to play pure-DPS roles, and figured that they'd need someone to support them.  They then assumed that Guardians, being the evolution of the Monk, Ritualist, and Paragon from GW1, were the best choice for that.  They either didn't know that their existing classes could switch to support roles, or DID know and didn't want to change playstyles.  Every class has combo fields, AoE support effects, and so on.  You don't NEED to find any one class, as long as the people in your group aren't so selfish that they'll ONLY use skills that maximize their own effectiveness.  Now, even an offense-focused Guardian will have enough "incidental" healing/buffing to help a group, but I'm betting that's not what those folks were looking for.  They wanted a healbot to follow them around and keep them topped off while they did tons of damage.

This isn't the first time this sort of issue has presented itself, of course; many previous games have run into the same issues with their "healer" classes.  But it still comes down to groups not being able to think beyond the classic Trinity design.  The 5-thief discussion reminds me of City of Heroes; back in that game, you had the Tanker (tank, obviously), Defender (support), Blaster (ranged DPS, low armor), Controller (control)... and Scrapper.  Scrappers were good DPS, but melee and mostly single-target, and they had decent defenses, but not enough to tank.  Great for solo play, but no one really wanted them at first, because the Holy Trinity (or Holy Quadrology, once you added enchanter-types in some games) didn't include an obvious spot for them, and people just didn't want to change their playstyles to adapt for group composition.  So you'd have people getting ready for a Task Force and shouting that they needed a healer or tank to fill the eighth and final slot, and that anything other than their perfect ideal team composition couldn't possibly succeed.
It got so bad that on one of the tougher Task Forces, a group told me that they didn't want any Scrappers at all, because they NEEDED two pure healers, two tanks, and four blasters to succeed.  Then my friends and I went and beat that same TF in a pickup group of 6 Scrappers and two non-healing Controllers.  The Scrapperswarm™ didn't play like the classic Trinity would, but as long as everyone paid at least a little attention to their own health and aggro, and focused attacks on the tougher bosses, it worked beautifully.

[UssjTrunks]

kilger, on 22 June 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

I've heard also that thieves are 100% essential for later dungeons as no one can sustain the same single target damage nearly as good...

Warriors and rangers have equal or higher DPS. Maybe their stealth is needed or something, I don't know, I haven't tried AC yet.

[Shadow Ritualist]

Ele: AoE Damage, heals, cc (almost entirely immobilization)
Guardian: Blocking, Offensive support sometimes, AOE CC (not the best versus single targets or stable targets), anti-conditions
Necro: DoTs, CC, pseudotanking (ie taking hits with ds), anti-conditions, anti-boons
Thief: Strong damage, mostly single-target, blind blind and more blind, teamstealth support
Ranger: Single-target damage, offensive support
Mesmer: CC, clone decoys/blocking, tons of team boons
Warrior: single-target burst damage, some offensive support
Engi: not quite as certain, some damage, more cc and support, good healing and boons, turret dps

You really can't do all of these at once but most of them are ways for each class to perform damage control support.

Edited by Shadow Ritualist, 22 June 2012 - 07:22 PM.

[Linfang]

Hey I have an idea. How about basing people on player skill and not profiling them based on profession choice? You good at playing your profession? Great lets group.

Edited by Linfang, 22 June 2012 - 08:07 PM.

[StormDragonZ]

I'll be a Necromancer, who I predict will be the least desired character class for dungeons.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

Skyline Crash, on 22 June 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Thieves won't be that bad. High single target dps for when you are fighting bosses. The thief just has to be careful. Also, the shortbow has strong aoe.

Thieves don't do damage.  You're thinking of rangers.

RabidusIncendia, on 22 June 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

As far as Dungeon PvE my guess is...

Rangers will just kill things
Warriors just kill things
Mesmers will be used for retaliation
Eles will AoE heal and attack
Necros will be used to spread conditions on high level mobs.
Guardians and Engineers will.. DUH seriously.
Thieves will suck

I'd rather go with:
Rangers: Single-target DPS
Mesmers: AOE condition spam
Elementalists: AOE damage and healing
Necromancers: Single-target condition spam
Guardians: Aggro control and healng
Engineers: Crowd shutdown
Thieves: Single-target shutdown
Warriors: ???

[LunarN]

teambuilds > playerbuilds..

[Asbourne]

who wouldn't want a thief in dungeons, they are the only ones that can actually drop aggro..

[Esorono Osuiger]

Asbourne, on 22 June 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

who wouldn't want a thief in dungeons, they are the only ones that can actually drop aggro..

Mesmers.