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Xbox 360 controller or MMO mouse?

controller xbox 360 mmo mouse gw2

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#1 Ibari

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 02:47 PM

Hello fellow gurus!

Sorry if this isn't the right section for asking such a question (I wondered if Technical Support was better suited for this...) but anyway here I go:

Some days ago a user from GW2Guru showed me a possible layout for playing Guild Wars 2 using a Xbox 360 controller (still the keyboard will be needed for typing!). I'm curious and I wanted to know if anyone around here had used such system before, or in other MMO games.

The thing is, that I don't know whether to buy a Xbox 360 controller or an MMO mouse like the Logitech G600, because I think my gaming experience would be improved. Having to use so many keys in the keyboard is a little messy for me (people who don't need these things are so lucky!).

So... I want to read your opinions. Controller or MMO mouse? Thank you in advance!

#2 Trixh

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:06 PM

Mouse hands down.

MMO's should not be played with a controller.

#3 Matsy

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:10 PM

Mouse.
Games designed for PC, should use PC peripherals.  How would you aim your groundtargeted skilleds anyway?

#4 MeltyxBlood

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:12 PM

Never understood why people gimp themselves by using a xbox controller..  Buy a razer naga mouse. More closer buttons is the way to go for MMOs.

#5 umbraticus

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:13 PM

i'd go for the mouse. even if it's just so you can rotate faster and more accurate in a fight.
i always gamed with the cheapest mouse i had found when i bought my first pc (6 years ago). then i bought the cyborg mmo7 for guildwars 2 and it's a revelation! i don't get how i was ever able to game without it :P. so keyboard + mmo mouse is so much win!

#6 Dmon

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:21 PM

Mouse.

Controller would be:
Very complicated to learn, compared to a MMORPG gaming mouse, with thumb buttons. Thumb buttons would take getting used to, but it is not as bad.
You give up so much rotation speed, movement speed, and ultimately reaction time. As an example, I was listening to a Battlefield 3 pro on Youtube talk about how painful it was for him to watch a BF3 game played on a console (i.e with a controller), because how slow it was moving and such.
Would have support by now if they were a viable option, but since there are hardly any  MMORPGs that have controller support, if any, it's obvious that it isn't good for this genre.

But sure, if you're one of those people who like this kind of challenge, you could always try to find a controller that has more buttons for more ease of learning and layout mapping.

Edited by Dmon, 24 June 2012 - 06:23 PM.


#7 Arcath

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:23 PM

Naga

#8 Metaditon Orions

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:44 PM

Grab a Cyborg Mouse or Logitech, both good quality mouses.

my MX518 lasted 6 + years and still works just not in use.

Controllers are more for games like Assassins Creed or racing games imo

#9 Ibari

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 07:12 PM

Woah, thank you for your answers xD Probably I'll be getting the Mouse, but I really appreciate all of your answers!

#10 Esorono Osuiger

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 05:38 AM

I love my naga to death, it's a bit expensive but quite worth it if money is no object.

#11 Sausajoooz

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 05:40 AM

Got my Naga today.......... mouse all the way xD

#12 Naqaj

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 09:47 AM

I would say neither.

Arguments against a controller have been given enough, I would add that a Naga is just completely unneccessary for GW2, since the UI is so streamlined you really don't need to use all those additional buttons. Not to mention that (to me at least) only half of those are actually comfortably reachable.
Having a mouse that is ergonomic and gives you between 2-4 additional thumb buttons is all you need.

#13 blackthornarrow

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 10:37 AM

if you take the naga hex you can use skill 1 to 6  easy while running around attacking thats definatly the mouse i would love to use

#14 Seraphiel

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 10:52 AM

http://www.logitech....mo-gaming-mouse

Naga just became obsolete

#15 Fullygeneric

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 03:23 AM

If you want to better understand what a properly configured controller can do, please check out my youtube clip.  If you have GW1, follow the links listed to test it out.

It's kind of an ugly video but you'll see how easy it is to access all of the features.  Gameplay is actually faster and smoother than what you see, I was just trying to remember what I wanted to demo.  Make sure you watch it with annotations on.



Good luck.

#16 Sebyos

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 03:44 AM

Ordered a G700 Logitech mouse it has 4 buttons for the tumb which would be used as F1 to F4 skills. Seems pretty usefull to me.

#17 Calebrus

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:10 AM

View PostSebyos, on 16 July 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

Ordered a G700 Logitech mouse it has 4 buttons for the tumb which would be used as F1 to F4 skills. Seems pretty usefull to me.
I have a g700 as well, and I love it.  Much better than a Naga IMHO.  Not only does it have the four on the thumb, but it also has three next to your forefinger, plus the wheel tilts and wheel click.  So 10 buttons rather than Naga's 12.  But those ten buttons are all comfortable to click, and are all spaced well and tactile enough to be easily recognizable.  Hands down the best gaming mouse that I've found.

View PostFullygeneric, on 16 July 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

If you want to better understand what a properly configured controller can do, please check out my youtube clip.  If you have GW1, follow the links listed to test it out.
I've also used a controller to play MMOs in the past.  I've actually created a profile for Gw2 myself, but I did so after the last beta and haven't had a chance to test it yet.



BUTTON		SET ONE			SET TWO
left analog	move [W,A,S,D]	move [W,A,S,D]
right analog	mouse emulation	mouse emulation
d-pad left	  target nearest [Q]   F1
d-pad down	target next [Tab]	 F2
d-pad up	  map [N]		 F3
d-pad right	hero [H]		 F4
RB		1			6
X		2			7
A		3			8
Y		4			9
B		5			0		
R-click 	 PTT [F]		  about face [R]
RT		jump [space]		weapon swap [~]	
LB		dodge [Z]		dodge [Shift]
LT		Set Swap (hold)		------	
L-click 	  right mouse button toggle	right mouse button toggle
back		left mouse button		***(open)***(available)***
start		interact [E]		inventory [B]


*meh* the code's off.  It's close enough that you get the idea.  I also have a couple of redundant buttons on both sets (such as dodge) so that no matter which set I'm currently using that button always does the same thing.
You'll notice that my 1 and 6 are on the right shoulder button.  That's intentional so I can move (left thumb), target with the mouse or change the camera angle (aka: steer in mouselook mode - right thumb) and can still fire off an attack or a heal while both of my thumbs are busy.
I should note that some of those have been remapped to different keys from default to fit my playstyle with my g700.  So with this profile I can use either one that I find I feel more comfortable with.

View PostMatsy, on 24 June 2012 - 06:10 PM, said:

How would you aim your groundtargeted skilleds anyway?
My setup uses left click as a right mouse button toggle.  Turn auto-ground-targeting ON under game options so that your skill is targeted wherever your mouse is on the screen.
Click the left analog stick to get a mouse on screen.  Use the right stick to place it.  Fire off your skill.  Click the left stick again to get back into mouselook mode if you so desire.
You can't strafe while you're ground targeting, but you can still advance or retreat.  As your thumb is on the left stick 99.99% of the time, once you get the hang of it it becomes second nature and takes no time at all.  I've used this system before with other games, and it works wonderfully.

Edited by Calebrus, 16 July 2012 - 04:47 AM.


#18 Salidin

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:39 AM

I would recommend a mouse over a joypad for various reasons even though this is a MMORPG you still would achieve more accuracy and swiftness with a mouse.

As for the mouse I recommend I have used the G500 in GW2 it is all you need you do not 9 side buttons as the G6000 has for Guild Wars 2 or any game I have came across including Lotro which used the hotbar style set up with 30+ skills and items. G500 feels more fluent 3 side buttons, My set up for it was: Top was weapon swap, middle was dodge, bottom was heal. Then you have 5 more that includes both left and right main mouse buttons and the mouse wheel which has 3 built in one. If you push the mouse wheel down thats a key, if you push to the left that's a key and if you push it to the right that's a key all very much responsive.

Now you could use the DPI +- minus keys as well if you really need too but I leave those so I can adjust dpi on the fly. Very much responsive in Tribes or TF2 so you can expect the same in a MMORPG.

Now with that a 360 pad is good buy if you play other games especially ones with vehicles or poorly optimized for keyboard and mouse. I recommend everyone to have at least a 360 pad  in their possession it can come in handy but specifically for guild wars 2 I cannot recommend it.

#19 danny4647

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:45 AM

Naga

#20 Calebrus

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 04:57 AM

View PostSalidin, on 16 July 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

but specifically for guild wars 2 I cannot recommend it.

This is where we disagree.
Most MMOs I would agree with you, but Gw2 uses significantly less hotkeys than most MMOs.  I've used my controller in games with *far* more complex keymapping comfortably and successfully.  I see no reason why Gw2 wouldn't work.  In fact, from my experience doing it in other games, and my familiarity with the system we have at this point, I feel confident saying that Gw2 will work EXTREMELY well with a controller once you find a setup that you like.

Edited by Calebrus, 16 July 2012 - 04:58 AM.


#21 Salidin

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:05 AM

View PostCalebrus, on 16 July 2012 - 04:57 AM, said:

This is where we disagree.
Most MMOs I would agree with you, but Gw2 uses significantly less hotkeys than most MMOs.  I've used my controller in games with *far* more complex keymapping comfortably and successfully.  I see no reason why Gw2 wouldn't work.  In fact, from my experience doing it in other games, and my familiarity with the system we have at this point, I feel confident saying that Gw2 will work EXTREMELY well with a controller once you find a setup that you like.

I am not saying it won't work I just cannot recommend it over a mouse and keyboard mostly because GW2 unlike other MMOs you need constantly move and if you played FPS with a mouse you know fact is much more reliable then joypad of any kind no matter what DPI you have it set at.

Edited by Salidin, 16 July 2012 - 05:05 AM.


#22 Calebrus

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:07 AM

View PostSalidin, on 16 July 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

I am not saying it won't work I just cannot recommend it over a mouse and keyboard mostly because GW2 unlike other MMOs you need constantly move and if you played FPS with a mouse you know fact is much more reliable then joypad of any kind no matter what DPI you have it set at.
Comparing it to a FPS is apples and oranges.  The difficulty, and thus the superiority, of mice over controllers in an FPS has nothing to do with movement and everything to do with pinpoint targeting.  Pinpoint targeting isn't an issue here, so neither are your concerns over a controller not being accurate enough.

#23 Salidin

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:17 AM

View PostCalebrus, on 16 July 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

Comparing it to a FPS is apples and oranges.  The difficulty, and thus the superiority, of mice over controllers in an FPS has nothing to do with movement and everything to do with pinpoint targeting.  Pinpoint targeting isn't an issue here, so neither are your concerns over a controller not being accurate enough.

That's your opinion I do not share the same one as you which is why I stated "I cannot reccomend a joypad over a mouse"

A joypad has it uses and everyone should have one but what it's best for is driving/piloting a vehicle of some sort in the majority of games that I have experience anything else can be done the same if not better in some cases with a mouse/keyboard then a joypad can provide.

Never stated it would not work at all and especially did not say mouse is the ONLY option to win. But experience from 3rd person as well as first from a variety of genres tells me  a mouse/keyboard feels much more comfortable to play with and much more responsive.

As for the last of your comment you also do not provide a reason TOO use a joypad over a mouse if they are in fact essentially the same.

#24 Calebrus

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:29 AM

View PostSalidin, on 16 July 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

As for the last of your comment you also do not provide a reason TOO use a joypad over a mouse if they are in fact essentially the same.

I wasn't trying to sway him either way, so the fact that I didn't give a reason to should be considered a good thing as far as I'm concerned.  The OP asked for opinions from "anyone around here had used such system before, or in other MMO games."
Only myself and one other person actually gave any opinion from experience with a controller on these types of games.  Everyone else just said "Buy a Naga/g500/g600/g700!"
To your credit, you did give reasons.  But to say that you can't recommend it when you've never tried it is fairly naive.

Edited by Calebrus, 16 July 2012 - 05:29 AM.


#25 Salidin

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:37 AM

View PostCalebrus, on 16 July 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

To your credit, you did give reasons.  But to say that you can't recommend it when you've never tried it is fairly naive.

I have played with controller on almost every genre, MMO or not it is still an RPG a 3rd person RPG at that. That works with a hotbar I have had experience hotbar combat on a controller specifically with Gothic 3. While doable it is better on a mouse and keyboard.

#26 KQ

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 11:00 PM

Moved to Gamer's Lair.

#27 Heart Collector

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:19 PM

Mouse, hands down. I personally can't stand using controllers for anything other than side scrollers and beat 'em' ups - though if yuo're used to it and prefer the "feel" of playing with a controller you might prefer it.

Also, I don't think you'll need to bind that many keys to your keyboard for GW2, especially if you can bind the shift modifier as well so you should be able to make do with a few keybinds (brought this up because you wrote you didn't feel comfortable with too many keybinds).

#28 Naoroji

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:36 PM

View PostTrixh, on 24 June 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

Mouse hands down.

MMO's should not be played with a controller.

DC Universe Online says hi. :P

#29 Trixh

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:52 PM

View PostNaoroji, on 17 July 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

DC Universe Online says hi. :P

Just because some support it does not mean you should play with it. :)

But if you want to limit yourself then go right ahead.

Edited by Trixh, 17 July 2012 - 12:53 PM.


#30 Jesusloveyou

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 07:38 PM

View Postdanny4647, on 16 July 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

Naga

It is easy to say naga. Those are for people that resist to keybind with the the keyboard usually. If people can take time to learn the keys in position and practice them(in which I will have to do though I do not like it) but at the long run it will be more beneficial and the person do not have to rely on a mouse to click their abilities and avoid paying out of their pocket when they have their keyboard for free to do it.  Peace

Edited by Jesusloveyou, 17 July 2012 - 07:38 PM.





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