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Should level cap rise with future expansions?

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Poll: Should level cap rise with future expansions (905 member(s) have cast votes)

Should level cap rise with future expansions?

  1. Yes (187 votes [20.66%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.66%

  2. No (291 votes [32.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.15%

  3. Depends but leaning toward yes (156 votes [17.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.24%

  4. Depends but leaning toward no (159 votes [17.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.57%

  5. Doesn't matter/Don't care/Whatever (112 votes [12.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.38%

How will this affect your decision to buy the expansion(s)?

  1. If they raise the level cap, I won't buy the expansion (21 votes [3.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.23%

  2. If they don't raise the level cap, I won't buy the expansion (9 votes [1.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.38%

  3. I will buy the expansion either way (580 votes [89.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 89.23%

  4. I won't buy the expansion either way? (2 votes [0.31%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.31%

  5. Undecided/Depends (will elaborate in post) (38 votes [5.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.85%

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#31 Syncline

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:15 AM

They did say that they didn't want to add new tutorial zones anymore (after GW1) because it costs too much to develop redundant content with every expansion, so we may not see new low-level areas after launch except for those that might come with potential new races.

--

If there are new levels at all, it will likely just be for the progression of the acquisition of new skills. GW1 just threw them at you after you reached certain areas (after prophecies, you could buy most of them as soon as you got off noob island), but the wider MMO playerbase seems to prefer that they acquire skills more slowly over time as a measure of character progress.

Edited by Syncline, 26 June 2012 - 10:18 AM.


#32 Stargate

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:19 AM

View PostSyncline, on 26 June 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

They did say that they didn't want to add new tutorial zones anymore (after GW1) because it costs too much to develop redundant content with every expansion, so we may not see new low-level areas after launch except for those that might come with potential new races.
Yes this makes sense. Same thing with WOW they added only new tutorial areas if new races are added.

#33 Syncline

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:22 AM

View PostStargate, on 26 June 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Yes this makes sense. Same thing with WOW they added only new tutorial areas if new races are added.
Yeah. ANet felt, in hindsight, that adding low-level content (specifically Shing Jea island, and noob island in NF) to each expansion took development time and money away from the rest of the content.

#34 Stargate

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:32 AM

View PostHaterx732, on 26 June 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

Whats the difference between leveling in GW2 and WoW? Why do they serve no purpose in GW2?
Zefiris is talking bullshit! Anet has said that "the levelcap will absolutely increase in GW2" Anet has also said that sidekicking upwards does not work in PvE. As it should be! You are however scaled down to lower level if you enter old areas so you are slightly more powerful but still get some challenge from an old lesser level Event.

Here is my thoughs about the Powerplateau which I hate:
Spoiler

I will explore the PvE World during levelup process. I will roll 5 characters and enjoy the level up process with each of them. As endgame(max level) I will do Mist PvP and rarely PvE Dungeons and sPvP unless Anet decide to introduce raids(very unsure).

sPvP is the only thing that is 100% unaffected by levels. Whiners should shut up since you can level up and get good exp both in Mist PvP or PvE while in WOW you get much less exp if you try levelup through PvP.

Edited by Stargate, 26 June 2012 - 10:37 AM.


#35 Korra

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:34 AM

And answering the topic title, they shouldn't increase since levels in gw2 doesn't mean much :)

#36 Chalky

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:35 AM

View PostBilateralrope, on 26 June 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

If ANET makes an expansion that requires the base game, you're probably right. However, if ANET does what they did with GW1 and release chapters that can stand alone or be an expansion, then the new content will include lots of <80 zones for players who only own the new chapter to level in. Which won't leave much budget for >80 zones.

Anet have confirmed that they won't be doing stand alone expansions, so that isn't the case.  It's an interesting question what will happen with the level cap and other mechanics as linear expansions are released, but it seems certain that the cap will be raised and unless Anet are going to add grind to GW2 via expansions, the level numbers will be very large indeed.

(expansion policy is mentioned here: http://wiki.guildwar...ase_and_testing )

View PostRhydian, on 26 June 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

Chalky I played a game with 400 long god forsaken levels, through what can only be described as the second level of purgatory.
Personally I hope to god and all that is holy that there at best are only five to ten expansion levels.

I'm assuming that game didn't have a linear levelling structure.  The number of levels has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with how enjoyable a game is to play.

If GW2 releases an expansion, it'll have almost as much content as GW2 vanilla, and if they keep the "90 mins per level" speed and don't add grind, that means they'll need to add 60 levels.  That's just how it works, you can't have a game with level based progression, a linear progression speed and not add a large number of levels with a large quantity of content.
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#37 Gen1tor

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:40 AM

Well they said they would raise the cap yet I wonder how much can it be raised be4 it reaches that point where lvling is just too much? I was a bit surprised when they said the cap would be lvl 80 as most MMOs until now started from a lower cap with the intention to raise it gradually. But,no, Anet just wants to do things their own way ;P

#38 Syncline

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:41 AM

I'm not sure that it'll ever be too much, considering that you'll be able to level pretty quickly. This won't be aion, where level 49 alone could take you days (and most of it was grind).

#39 Lethality

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:46 AM

View PostCraywulf, on 26 June 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Doesn't matter because the power plateau will not change. So there's literally going be no difference between a level 80 Elementalist and a level 100 Elementalist in terms of stats. The numerical level is going be purely cosmetic status. For ArenaNet to allow expansions to alter the power plateau, would totally wreck the balance of the game.

Well, the combat algorithms of course use level as one of the variables, so just based on that a level 100 will be different than a level 80.

On top of that, given the pattern they've set out of increasing stats each level of gear over the first 80, it's likely they will continue that same method of progression.

#40 Safer Saviour

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:47 AM

In an ideal world, Arenanet would go back on its statement about adding new levels. Frankly, I don't see the point, especially in a world which scales its players down for content. I would much rather Arenanet add new weapons, races and new maps to the game than fuss about with levels.

#41 Stargate

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:47 AM

View PostChalky, on 26 June 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Anet have confirmed that they won't be doing stand alone expansions, so that isn't the case.  It's an interesting question what will happen with the level cap and other mechanics as linear expansions are released, but it seems certain that the cap will be raised and unless Anet are going to add grind to GW2 via expansions, the level numbers will be very large indeed.

(expansion policy is mentioned here: http://wiki.guildwar...ase_and_testing )



I'm assuming that game didn't have a linear levelling structure.  The number of levels has absolutely nothing what so ever to do with how enjoyable a game is to play.

If GW2 releases an expansion, it'll have almost as much content as GW2 vanilla, and if they keep the "90 mins per level" speed and don't add grind, that means they'll need to add 60 levels.  That's just how it works, you can't have a game with level based progression, a linear progression speed and not add a large number of levels with a large quantity of content.
Thank you. It was nice to hear it confirmed that there will be no standalone expansions and that there logically will be lots of levels.

Edited by Stargate, 26 June 2012 - 10:50 AM.


#42 Lethality

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:49 AM

View PostZefiris, on 26 June 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

It probably will not raise the level cap.

If it does, you can easily get max stats for your gear the moment you hit max level, so ultimately, it changes nothing and I don't care of it does.

I mean, levels in GW2 pretty much only exist to lure people that are so used to levels, they are incapable of understanding that a game can be fun without them. Levels just have no inherent meaning in GW2.

ArenaNet made that choice for us by including them in the first place, not to mention 80 of them to start. I think they see levels as a meaningful measure of progression this time, which I agree with.

I would have also agreed with no levels at all, but they didn't go that way.

View PostStargate, on 26 June 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

Thank you. It was nice to hear it confirmed that there will be no standalone expansions.

Actually, the they reads is they will be doing standalone expansions... just not releasing individual campaigns for sale ala Guild Wars 1.

#43 Tikal

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:52 AM

There is no need for increased level cap.

i prefer to see other things like:
- more sPvP maps
- a new profession
- new weapons (scythe for necromancer!)
- new weaponsets for all professions
- new traits
- more PvE dungeons and events
- and especially more sPvP maps :P

Though, if they are going to add new quest maps, maybe they have to increase cap, or change the level of all existing maps.

#44 Stargate

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:55 AM

View PostSafer Saviour, on 26 June 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

I don't see the point,
The point is Anet want to sell the expansions to players like me. Next question! Don't worry of course expansions will have story content and all that also... but if you think only about maps/story then you are shortsighted really. I am sure GW2 coúld gradually evolve with introduing some of the features like example DX11 graphics, sPvP new mode example Capture The Flag and maybe raids.

The only thing that is certain though is that expansions will have lots of levels, but of course they will have others stuff also, but that remains to be seen what that is.

Edited by Stargate, 26 June 2012 - 10:59 AM.


#45 Linfang

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 10:59 AM

I would say no to a level cap. ArenaNet has tried to go against the traditional MMO grain from the start. Raising the level cap is a easy way out. Just bump up numbers and experience and tada, new stuff to do! They need a new profession, with some new utilities and weapons. They need to expand on the focus of player skill, giving us more tools and less of the inflated numbers.

#46 Ivania

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:11 AM

I'm all for a increased level cap with future expansions, and maybe even a fourth Tier for Traits, although only a 5pt increase.

But the 4:th Trait tier should be exclusive, only one 35point Traitline per character to keep it balanced..

Oh, and Real GvG! in future expansions, it's called "Guild Wars2" afterall - not "5races beating dragons in an open world"

#47 Safer Saviour

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:11 AM

View PostStargate, on 26 June 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

The point is Anet want to sell the expansions to players like me. Next question! Don't worry of course expansions will have story content and all that also... but if you think only about maps/story then you are shortsighted really. I am sure GW2 coúld gradually evolve with introduing some of the features like example DX11 graphics, sPvP new mode example Capture The Flag and maybe raids.

The only thing that is certain though is that expansions will have lots of levels, but of course they will have others stuff also, but that remains to be seen what that is.

Clearly they don't want to sell expansions to people who played and enjoyed their previous games then.

Excessive levelling is something that puts me off a game, any game. I don't find it rewarding or fun to continually see a little number beside my name ping upwards. While being a higher level than my friends is less of an issue in GW2 than it is in other games, it still feels like I'm being pushed towards 'level appropriate content' and should expansions include substantial levelling, I think it'll feel like Tyria (the continent and its continent) is no longer suitable for me.

I wouldn't mind if the levels were purely cosmetic though. If level 80 remained the plateau, but that one little number pinged upwards and say, you got a skill point for every 'level', that wouldn't bother me at all.

#48 Feralz

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:21 AM

im pretty sure i have read somewhere discussing how they will go about the increased level caps. not debating if its in or not, but how they can incorporate it in the game. so im pretty sure they are raising the level cap, and it would be stupid for them not to. i gives players something to look forward to, and ofcourse this means new content. and also it makes having an expansion significant, and money for a-net to make a more awesome game

#49 Cebbar

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:22 AM

To be honesy, the way the game seems to have been designed it seems like level doesn't really do anything other than lock you out of "higher level" PvE content.  Whilst progression through the game (in PvE) doesn't seem that linear with the 5 starter regions and so much choice on what to do, they do need to keep some general perspective with regards to the PvE content, and this is done with levels, and thankfully, really seems to be their only use.

Equally, because you are "scaled down" in lower level areas, it surely shouldn't matter if a L20, L80, or L260 were playng together in Kessex Hils ^^

I'm neither for or against a raise in level cap in Guild Wars 2.  I used to see it as a bad thing, having a cap as high as 80, but having played the beta, seems like they've implemented it very nicely.  I guess if more game areas are added, it makes sense to increase level cap to keep the challenge level up, then you only need to re-balance PvP-wise for the new cap and you're good to go?

#50 Gannadene

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:39 AM

The game is balanced for 80. Increasing the cap means invalidating all builds and current equipment. T-stones for 80 items either will need to be for 80-99 (or whatever) or work for anything past 80. Obviously we'll have to get more trait points, which means it diminishes the point of having to choose your investments.

I say there's no real point. It's just dumb grind content, ala WoW, that serves no practical purpose other than giving idiots something to waste more time on. But this is coming from a Guild Wars 1 player. I value actual content versus just screwing up the balance of every class in the game just so you can inject five or however more levels into the game. But WoW players think if you don't include more levels then the expansion doesn't mean anything, so better do it. Hurr durrrrr

#51 Heliar

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:53 AM

I'd rather they didn't raise the level cap. What's the point? It worked fine in GW1, there is no need to for more levels. Especially when people are suggesting ridiculous amounts of levels per expansion. Hey i'm lvl 586 Warrior... really?


If these extra levels won't increase armor/weapon stats or make your character significantly more powerful then I'm fine with that. Why would you want more levels anyway? What does it add towards gameplay or character development for that matter with a game that has horizontal progression? I'd be fine if they just added more weapons and skills with gear and upgrades that improve your new skills.
They should add more content and game features instead of appealing to those number junkies who need MORE digits next to their name and in their character window.

At the end of the day I don't really care but i'd rather they didn't.

View PostStargate, on 26 June 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

This well said! I am absolutely sure GW2 will have more levels then WOW after its first expansion! I am not sure it will have 60+ levels /expansion, but a lot! I am also confident that there will be at least slightly more poweful items and unless you have not bought the expansion you will not be able to craft max gear after expansion release. If Anet would ever release a cosmetic shit expansion then I would simply laugh and never buy it :cool:.

Do you only buy expansions for gear upgrades? Content doesn't matter at all does it? It's all about the stats.

Edited by Heliar, 26 June 2012 - 11:58 AM.


#52 Havoc

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 11:57 AM

Since ANet has already confirmed that the level cap will be raised, the only remaining question is how far they will raise it. They must consider the needs and desires of all current players when making this decision, and must ensure that the end result continues to lure new players.

Raising it by a large number of levels (50-80 levels) effectively prevents grind at higher levels, while allowing characters at max level the greatest room for progression. However, it makes the climb from level one to that cap much more time consuming for new players and alts. After a couple of such expansions, they would probably begin to scare away new players. New players, who are also altoholics, would really be turned off by the thought of climbing that incredible leveling mountain on multiple characters. Considering that the game relies upon multiple, differing storylines as a reason to continue playing once "end game" has been reached, and keeping the need for expanding the player base in mind, I feel that raising the level cap by a large amount would be extremely counterproductive. This can, however, be alleviated by boosting the experience gain of new characters and alts, and it should be noted that exp boosts are already a part of the game.

Adding a much smaller level cap (5 - 10 levels) is much more alt and new player friendly, but can quickly cause the higher levels to seem more grindy, and may leave players who have few or no alts asking "is that all?". If this path is chosen it becomes necessary to provide high level players who do not have multiple alts with an additional motivation to continue playing. It also becomes necessary to combat the grind directly. This can be done by increasing high level "end game" content to give those players something on which they can focus their play, by adding new races or professions to the game to entice those players to consider an alt, or by creating other rewards, which are not based upon character level, for doing additional content. Increasing the game content in this manner requires alot more creativity and work, and if done poorly, can quickly endanger the balance to the game.

Because of the above statements, I'm guessing a mid-level gain of 20 levels for the first expansion, with one additonal race and profession, additional story content, more high level "end game" features, and an additional type of PvP.

#53 4arsie4

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:09 PM

If Anet increases another tier of traits beyond Grandmaster (Great-grandmaster), that would mean access to another 50 trait points. Possibly going from 70 to 90 trait points. So a possible 20 more levels.

Edited by 4arsie4, 26 June 2012 - 12:22 PM.


#54 Dream Catcher

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:18 PM

As long as it doesn't negatively impact the previous content or new GW2 players experiences then I am perfectly fine with it.

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#55 iniside

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:19 PM

1. Old content get obsolete when you raise level cap. That's partially true for GW2, as player is always scaled down to level of content. But higher level still have impact on character.
1a. Also most focus going into new level cap content. Not what I want. I want expanding content over all levels, that why scaling is here in first place. When I will be doing my 34 alt, I would welcome some other leveling route than last time (new zones).
2. Itemization treadmill. When level cap is raised all items from previous level cap are gone, and you have to get them all over again. Again doesn't seem much of an issue in GW2 where progression is pretty much linear and scaled to level. But then...
3. Balancing issues. By rising level cap everything else is probably going to be raised along with it. Stats, trait points, Maybe even new traits for highest tier (brrr). This again need to re balance for new numbers, skill power etc.
What I'd like to see is good old progression system from GW1. Where new expansion will bring new skills to unlock, but won't raise level cap. Instead they can bring more variety in skill point challenges for unlocking new skills, maybe skill hunting, trait hunting. Maybe another horizontal progression (swap able weapon skills, skills modifiers), more stats on items, more conditions. There are many ways of expanding in horizontal manner. They are just not that easy as simple raising level cap. But I can honestly say. I expect AN will not take easy way. That's why I put my money on them.

I don't see any good reason for raising level cap in GW2, I see only problems, with future balancing. Of course introducing new skills, also will bring new balance issues but they will be on the same level as previous ones. (you don't need to rebalance old skills for new level cap and new skills with old skills).

Besides that I personally do not like leveling my old character to new level, but I don't mind level new character over again.

#56 FoxBat

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:23 PM

I'm rather hoping they don't start adding more trait types. If you just make bigger levels or bigger numbers it can all be scaled up in a balanced way. Once you add additional trait points it qualitatively changes the game, with an ever increasing inflation on the number of concurrent passives. More traits to choose from in the existing categories, sure, even if I have to grind high levels to unlock them. But extending the trait lines will be problematic, particularly once you get to expansion 3 or 4.

#57 zosek

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:23 PM

Lvl cap should NOT, and will now rise. They stated in some interview, that if you don't play the game for some time, you can come back and play it as if you never left. That means, if you left your character at lvl 80, when you come back, you are lvl 80 and you dont have to lvl up for 20 lvls more, just to play the "high end" part of the game.

#58 Matsy

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:25 PM

I'd rather they not...but they already said they would.

#59 Fox_LWW

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:33 PM

I'd rather not have them add new levels, but it's kind of irrelevant since you get level-suited loot and power cap is easy to achieve. I do expect expansions(if they add levels) to contain 1 transmutation stone for each viewable slot, if i know A-net.

Edited by Fox_LWW, 26 June 2012 - 12:34 PM.


#60 Lethality

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 01:18 PM

View Postzosek, on 26 June 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

Lvl cap should NOT, and will now rise. They stated in some interview, that if you don't play the game for some time, you can come back and play it as if you never left. That means, if you left your character at lvl 80, when you come back, you are lvl 80 and you dont have to lvl up for 20 lvls more, just to play the "high end" part of the game.

They actually stated just the opposite, that the level cap will rise in expansions.

It's really not a big deal since if you enjoy playing the game anyway, there's no bother in getting new levels... it helps that sense of progression so many of you were thankful for with the tiered skills and tiered traits. Tiered characters! :)





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