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Hammer for the engineer

engineer hammer

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#1 PerishSong

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 12:40 AM

Why the engineer can't use the hammer is still beyond me. Only 2 professions can use it and it really suits the engineer as a craftsman/builder.

Also... magnets. The whole idea of using a hammer as a magnet is both so obvious and amazing

1. Hit -> Hit -> (AoE)
2. Magnetize weapon (Foe gets weakness, you gain might)
3. EMP (AoE dmg and daze)
4. Magnetic pole (Pull foes towards you) -> Reverse polarity (knock them back)
5. Reduce gravity (Grant allies swiftness and stability)
OR
5. Increase gravity (Foes get crippled or knocked down)

Thoughts?

#2 Adamantium

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 01:14 AM

Oh yes please I love hammers so much, especially in this game the FX on hammers is just awesome.

I also find myself usually drawn to melee characters, so I would also appreciate a melee weapon for that reason and hammer by far makes the most sense. So many places to hide gadgets in a hammer!

Edited by Adamantium, 29 June 2012 - 01:14 AM.


#3 Absolutionis

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:20 AM

I posted an idea in the GW2 BWE2 Suggestion forum on a hammer doing exactly the things you described from Hit-Hit-AoE to Magnetic Pull to Heavy-Whack.
Take all the skills from the Tool Kit and convert them into a Hammer weapon option for the Engineer. Everything in the Tool Kit weapon kit can be reskinned/named to Hammer skills with no problem.

#4 CaericElRoi

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:33 AM

I'd love a  melee weapon option for engi, especially since every other class has one.  But, with release in 2 months, I doubt it'll happen.  Kinda really hope it does tho...

#5 Jukkie

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:23 AM

I agree with this, maybe in an expansion? Something to look forward too at least.

#6 Kairo

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:32 AM

the idea makes sense and although i doubt ill roll an engi (maybe a lil ironic because I am one) I'd love to see it as an option for those who do. :)

#7 Cl1p

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:36 AM

http://www.guildwars...__fromsearch__1

#8 Zyll

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 06:38 AM

It was brought up already yes, but I absolutely adore your weapon skills for the professions hammer. Except I'd rather have the 1st skill chain either inflict a random boon or condition on yourself/the enemy. Hit-hit-aoe is so generic.

#9 coglin

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 01:01 PM

View PostPerishSong, on 29 June 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

Why the engineer can't use the hammer is still beyond me.
Because they can use a wrench?

In all honesty though, I really foresee this as being implemented in the future. Anet was very quick to state they do expect new weapons in the future. Honestly, I don't believe it will be too distant of a future either.

#10 Itharius

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 07:09 PM

Hammer would fit the engineer archetype really well. Particularly because everyone associates hammers with lightning due to Thor/Zeus mythos, and engineers electrify their weapons.

#11 dancingmonkey

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 09:12 PM

Why on earth would (air quotes)everyone(air quotes) associate lightening with hammers? That doesn't even make sense.......

#12 Korra

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 09:14 PM

View Postdancingmonkey, on 29 June 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

Why on earth would (air quotes)everyone(air quotes) associate lightening with hammers? That doesn't even make sense.......
Too much "Thor" and "avengers" lately, i guess.

Besides that the topic has already been discused before.

#13 Runkleford

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 09:45 PM

I know everyone loves the idea of hammers for Engineers but personally I don't get it. What's weirder to me is that some seem to think it's somehow a travesty that the engineer is lacking a hammer. Is there some rule that Engineers MUST have a hammer?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposing the idea of a hammer as a later addition but I simply don't get it.

#14 Cursor

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 09:50 PM

Also, you don't really need air quotes when you're writing and can quote. :B

From the moment I heard about engineers (heck, even before I knew the last adventurer was the engineer specifically)I was convinced it was going to use hammers.  Imagine my surprise when that didn't happen.  I think the hammer is the rifle of melee weapons.  A neat weapon, lots of cool flavor behind it, but for some reason ArenaNet held back the reins on it and only handed them out to two professions.  It's possible they're saving wider availability for expansions, but that doesn't change the fact that I want them now, and I know I'm not alone.

And Runkle, do you mean...thematically?  What don't you get about it?

Edited by Cursor, 29 June 2012 - 09:51 PM.


#15 dancingmonkey

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 10:09 PM

How dare you bash the (air quotes).........If I wanted to quote him, I would, but air quotes created the more sarcastic visual I wanted.

This whole hammer thing baffles me. It seems to me that a small handful of folks here on the forums have some imaginary link they see between hammers and engineers. And that is okay, whats not okay, is all of you want to presume the rest of use should see this same imaginary link between the two.

What justifies assuming they would use hammers?

I was expecting slings and ballista knives, even cross bows.  Because I made incorrect assumptions, does that meen I should spam threads on it untill I have 9 of these weapons topic on the front page of the forums...of coarse not......If you made those assumptions, and were let down because they were incorrect, your not owed anything because you wanted it (air quotes)real bad(air quotes)....If that were the case, I assure you, I would be swimming through a sea of gold coins like Scrooge McDuck.

#16 Xiondar

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 10:14 PM

I would like to see Engineers with a Hammer... they are the only profession without some kind of Melee weapon and it does make sense. Hammers are often depicted with a Technical background I always think of the Brutes in Halo though. They are crafters, so they use hammers already; turning that into a deadly weapon of Technical force would be really cool to see.

Weapons = Skills, Anet will be adding new weapons and I am sure we will see some of our current weapons added to some classes in the future.

View Postdancingmonkey, on 29 June 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

How dare you bash the (air quotes).........If I wanted to quote him, I would, but air quotes created the more sarcastic visual I wanted.

This whole hammer thing baffles me. It seems to me that a small handful of folks here on the forums have some imaginary link they see between hammers and engineers. And that is okay, whats not okay, is all of you want to presume the rest of use should see this same imaginary link between the two.

What justifies assuming they would use hammers?

I was expecting slings and ballista knives, even cross bows.  Because I made incorrect assumptions, does that meen I should spam threads on it untill I have 9 of these weapons topic on the front page of the forums...of coarse not......If you made those assumptions, and were let down because they were incorrect, your not owed anything because you wanted it (air quotes)real bad(air quotes)....If that were the case, I assure you, I would be swimming through a sea of gold coins like Scrooge McDuck.

It's really hard to read your posts, no offense. Are you saying that Hammers would be a bad decision or are you just biased against their use for Engineers?

#17 StrafeFaster

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 10:29 PM

When ever anyone mentions Engi's getting hammers I always think of the buff Dexter from that movie Ego Trip and it just makes me smile.

I might just have to make a super buff norn who's bald with a red beard...

Edited by StrafeFaster, 29 June 2012 - 10:31 PM.


#18 Runkleford

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 11:18 PM

View PostCursor, on 29 June 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

And Runkle, do you mean...thematically?  What don't you get about it?

Yeah, thematically. I get that a hammer is a tool but the hammer everyone is talking about isn't a tool. And why a hammer specifically? Why does everyone seem so surprised that the GW2 Engineer doesn't swing a hammer around as a weapon? That's what I don't get. Why is the expectation there?

Edited by Runkleford, 29 June 2012 - 11:19 PM.


#19 A Wyatt Mann

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 11:19 PM

I think a mace would work better, as a mace would seem to work well with a pistol/shield as a melee weapon. Both those offhands seem to fit a melee playstyle if you think of it.

Sadly, I have no clue what it would do gameplay wise, but I'm sure Arenanet can be creative.

#20 Cursor

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 12:42 AM

View Postdancingmonkey, on 29 June 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

How dare you bash the (air quotes).........If I wanted to quote him, I would, but air quotes created the more sarcastic visual I wanted.

This whole hammer thing baffles me. It seems to me that a small handful of folks here on the forums have some imaginary link they see between hammers and engineers. And that is okay, whats not okay, is all of you want to presume the rest of use should see this same imaginary link between the two.

What justifies assuming they would use hammers?

I was expecting slings and ballista knives, even cross bows.  Because I made incorrect assumptions, does that meen I should spam threads on it untill I have 9 of these weapons topic on the front page of the forums...of coarse not......If you made those assumptions, and were let down because they were incorrect, your not owed anything because you wanted it (air quotes)real bad(air quotes)....If that were the case, I assure you, I would be swimming through a sea of gold coins like Scrooge McDuck.

Calm down, dude.  I wasn't bashing anything, I was just cheekily pointing out that they're a bit unnecessary when in text form.

Well, plenty.  I didn't just arrive at that conclusion because of personal feelings.  Prior to the announcement of the engineer, it was obvious that the third adventurer would be slightly more overt than the ranger or the thief so as to not repeat elements within a single armor class.  That, and it was fairly evident that this profession would use guns because at the time only the warrior had access to rifles, and it was unlikely a scholar would use one, and only the thief used pistols.  The prominent use of guns supported the theory that this last adventurer would be more overt and possibly less mobile.  Neither the thief nor the ranger used blunt weapons, and the thief didn't use two-handed weapons.  By this, you could conclude that, with the purpose of keeping weapon selection even among professions, it was likely that this last adventurer would use both two-handed weapons and blunt weapons.

Considering all these factors, there were only so many class archetypes that were possibles, or weapon selections that might be available to them.  Shields were an unknown, axes didn't seem to follow with weapons likely to be used by this profession, swords and daggers were a tossup because those weapons enjoy extremely wide use in any fantasy setting, and bows weren't an option because we'd already gotten bows with many professions, and besides that ArenaNet had been quoted saying there were professions that used guns and bows (warrior and thief), a profession that used only bows (ranger), and a profession that only used guns (the mysterious third adventurer).  There was an extreme likelihood that this profession would use blunt weapons, especially hammers, because of everything we could gather about it.

Of course, I'm sure everyone was surprised that the engineer could only use two weapons and also shields.  It seemed extremely limiting, frankly because it was.  The engineer only had ranged weapons because they'd be at a distinct disadvantage not being able to swap (apparently this wasn't an issue for dagger/dagger elementalists, who are also locked into close range, but whatever).  So people want more weapons.  Now that we know the archetype, what still fits? Bows are out, magical weapons are out, axes are unlikely, swords are possible but don't suit the engineer well, daggers are a possible because they're simple weapons that anyone can use.  Maces?  Too...weapony for the profession.  Unlike in most games, in Guild Wars 2, the mace is typically just that, but also occasionally a club or a morning star, not really something you'd expect out of an engineer.  Then there's the hammer.  It IS a tool, and I can easily imagine an angry engineer picking up the nearest sledgehammer to go to battle, then taking a liking to it afterwards.  It's not used by any other adventurer, it's a two-handed weapon (which for adventurers, excluding ranged weapons, are only used by the ranger in the form of the greatsword), and it provides the melee weapon and extra skill set to the engineer without creating a huge amount of extra diversity, since it can't be paired with anything.

It all just sort of fit together.  The hammer makes the most sense for the engineer give the selection of weapons currently available in Guild Wars 2.  And I had never heard of a ballistic knife.  So it's a knife...gun?  Sorta?  Weird.  But as interesting as that is, it's an extremely specific, niche weapon, as are slings (crossbows are a greater possible, and we'll likely see them in expansions), and would be unlikely additions to the weapon selection at any point.

So yeah.  That's it.  I can't speak for anyone else, but the link I draw between engineers and hammers isn't imaginary.  I concluded it was possible after a long process of elimination and thought.  The fact that I also like the pairing was just gravy.

Edited by Cursor, 30 June 2012 - 12:47 AM.


#21 dawdler

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 01:07 AM

View PostCursor, on 30 June 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

Calm down, dude.  I wasn't bashing anything
No, how could you bash anything without a hammer?

#22 Adamantium

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 01:48 AM

View PostCursor, on 30 June 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

...

So yeah.  That's it.  I can't speak for anyone else, but the link I draw between engineers and hammers isn't imaginary.  I concluded it was possible after a long process of elimination and thought.  The fact that I also like the pairing was just gravy.

Wow, never did I think so much could be said about the hammer and Engineer. You summed up my thoughts perfectly, even some I didn't even realize I had! (I just thought the hammer "made sense" but you did a great job explaining why)

View Postdawdler, on 30 June 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

No, how could you bash anything without a hammer?

Baa hahaha

#23 dancingmonkey

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 03:22 AM

View PostXiondar, on 29 June 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

It's really hard to read your posts, no offense. Are you saying that Hammers would be a bad decision or are you just biased against their use for Engineers?
Neither. I am saying that I repeatedly see post with exclamations that they expected the hammer to be a part of engineer. they act like their is some link between the two. I don't understand why everyone naturally assumed they would use a hammer. i am neither particularly for or against them. I am simply annoyed by posters acting as if they are (air quotes)owed(air quotes) a weapon like the hammer, simply because they made false assumptions and hyped their own selves up on the idea of if.


View PostCursor, on 30 June 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

Calm down, dude.  I wasn't bashing anything, I was just cheekily pointing out that they're a bit unnecessary when in text form.
Umm, relax guy, I was kidding. You kidded me for using them, I kid you back for the jab. See the pattern??? :P

The rest of your post is an extremely weak attempt to justify why you assumed the engineer would use the hammer.  Your entire Ttl;dr post just doesn't make sense. All of what you said, does not justify in any way, your repeated post of frustration. Its not Anets, or anyone else's fault. You made an assumption 100% of your own devices, then post in frustration as if you expect Anet to add the weapon just because you incorrectly assumed it would be their.

Quote

It all just sort of fit together. The hammer makes the most sense for the engineer give the selection of weapons currently available in Guild Wars 2
Why? What makes it the (air quotes)most sense(air quotes) ......This is how the problem developed initially, your making assumptions, just like this one. What fact, rule, or law of nature, deems the hammer to make the (air quotes)most sense(air quotes)

Just because your not familiar with a weapon or two I mentioned does not make them (air quotes)niche(air quotes)...Slings and weapons such as spring loaded projectile launchers were extremely widely used through out history. I garuntee you a lot more battles were fought with slings then hammers ......

Edited by dancingmonkey, 30 June 2012 - 03:23 AM.


#24 Ualtar

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 03:52 AM

The hammer does make some sense to me, since the Engineer is a builder and creator or mechanical instruments.  However, a large wrench or something of that sort would work also I suppose.  The idea is that the Engineer uses the hammer for creating his turrets, possibly for some blacksmithing.  Then he takes his hammer with him for some head bashing when he heads out on adventures.

#25 dancingmonkey

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 03:57 AM

View PostUaltar, on 30 June 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

The hammer does make some sense to me, since the Engineer is a builder and creator or mechanical instruments.  However, a large wrench or something of that sort would work also I suppose.  The idea is that the Engineer uses the hammer for creating his turrets, possibly for some blacksmithing.  Then he takes his hammer with him for some head bashing when he heads out on adventures.
We have a tool kit that uses a large wrench already actually. It also uses nails, gears, magnets, and a pry bar.

#26 Ualtar

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 04:26 AM

View Postdancingmonkey, on 30 June 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

We have a tool kit that uses a large wrench already actually. It also uses nails, gears, magnets, and a pry bar.

I know, and that makes it even odder that the Engineer doesn't have a melee weapon.  So an Engineer doesn't think to himself, "Self, maybe I could use this big wrench in my bag to smash this wolf that is gnawing on my calf."

#27 Absolutionis

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 06:17 AM

The fact that Engineers have to use an entire kit full of silly miscellany for a single melee weapon is disappointing. Every one of the Tool Kit's actions can be mimicked with the Hammer in both theme and function.

Just eliminate the Tool Kit and give Engineers a Hammer.

#28 Cursor

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 01:57 PM

View Postdancingmonkey, on 30 June 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

The rest of your post is an extremely weak attempt to justify why you assumed the engineer would use the hammer.  Your entire Ttl;dr post just doesn't make sense. All of what you said, does not justify in any way, your repeated post of frustration. Its not Anets, or anyone else's fault. You made an assumption 100% of your own devices, then post in frustration as if you expect Anet to add the weapon just because you incorrectly assumed it would be their.

Why? What makes it the (air quotes)most sense(air quotes) ......This is how the problem developed initially, your making assumptions, just like this one. What fact, rule, or law of nature, deems the hammer to make the (air quotes)most sense(air quotes)

Just because your not familiar with a weapon or two I mentioned does not make them (air quotes)niche(air quotes)...Slings and weapons such as spring loaded projectile launchers were extremely widely used through out history. I garuntee you a lot more battles were fought with slings then hammers ......

It's probably good to mention right here that I don't intend on maining an engineer at all, or even want to play one necessarily.  You keep assuming that everyone who posts on this subject does so for personal reasons.  I understand that this may be true for a lot of people, but I argue the hammer because people agree that the engineer would do well to have at least one additional weapon in it's arsenal, and it's the best logical choice among weapons available to player characters in GW2 currently.  If you don't think that any of my reasons were sufficient, that's fine, but please stop suggesting that my argument is based in frustration and hurt feelings in an attempt to weaken it.

Again, it makes most sense among the weapons we have available.  Magical weapons, bows, axes, greatswords and swords seem extremely unlikely for the engineer, daggers seem feasible but have no real reasons to support them, and maces don't seem to fit their motifs at all.  That leaves the hammer, and then all that jazz I wrote earlier.

And I meant in the sense of what we'd see in fantasy tropes.  For as much as GW2 does original, it does stick strongly to recognizable fantasy imagery that people can easily identify.  If you didn't play D&D, you probably wouldn't be too aware of slings, and while I consider myself a reasonable nerd, I've never heard of springloaded knfe-guns.  And on that last point, I'd really have to disagree.  The sling may have been widely used, but not moreso than large heavy blunt weapons in warfare.

Edited by Cursor, 30 June 2012 - 01:59 PM.


#29 Tenicord

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 02:14 PM

yeah a hammer would be a nice option for an Engineer I agree. It fits the profession perfectly too! I hope they consider it.. I mean Mesmer can use swords and Guardians can use a staff.. I don't think it's a far stretch to let a Engineer use a hammer... In fact it would be pretty fun to drop some turrets then run in with your hammer and and sheild.

It would be cool if one of the hammer skills you could hammer your turrets to fix(heal) them. I think there is already a skill but from what what I remember it didn't work well at all.. at least not in the first beta.

#30 coglin

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 03:40 PM

View PostCursor, on 30 June 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

It's probably good to mention right here that I don't intend on maining an engineer at all, or even want to play one necessarily.
So, then why are you trolling the engineer threads, attempting to push changes??





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