47 replies to this topic

[Cursor]

coglin, on 30 June 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

So, then why are you trolling the engineer threads, attempting to push changes??

Because I'm an enthusiast for the game, and want to post comments, criticisms, and suggestions that I think would benefit Guild Wars 2 and the people who play it?

[Adamantium]

I didn't think it was trolling at all, I thought the argument he laid out for hammers was very well thought out and didn't seem to have any kind of personal agenda. It would make sense to me if we could use (sledge)hammers for those reasons he listed.

Edited by Adamantium, 01 July 2012 - 12:19 AM.

[dancingmonkey]

Ualtar, on 30 June 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

I know, and that makes it even odder that the Engineer doesn't have a melee weapon.  So an Engineer doesn't think to himself, "Self, maybe I could use this big wrench in my bag to smash this wolf that is gnawing on my calf."

I was under the impression that kits such as the bomb kit and the melee range options of the flame thrower, elixir gun, and more so, the tool kit were our compensating tradeoff that gave us diverse access to melee battles.......Is that not the case?

Cursor, on 30 June 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

It's probably good to mention right here that I don't intend on maining an engineer at all, or even want to play one necessarily.  You keep assuming that everyone who posts on this subject does so for personal reasons.

I am assuming that? Your simply wrong in your assumptions about my assumptions.....

[CaericElRoi]

I think Anet forgot something about Engineers.  YES, they invented guns, blackpowder weapons, giggity gadgets, etc and evolved technology in Tyria.  HOWEVER, look at any martial force throughout history.  No matter how many advanced weapons they deploy, they still rely on tried and true (sometimes ancient) technology as well.  Hell, the US Army has guns that can see around corners and .50 cals that can hit a target at 1000 yards.  But they still issue a bowie knife in every E1's kit for survival and Hand to Hand tactical warfare.

The same should hold true for the Engineer.  Yes, they can use guns and have cool tech, but they shouldn't neglect their past and their use of martial and melee weapons!  That's just silly.

[Soulblazer87]

Hammers and Lightning; the Thunderclap thing etc etc etc. Too much Thor indeed.

As far as alternate weapons go, I've suggested a few, even made them 'steampunk' in skills. Wish I could see them implemented. Harmonic vibrations turning enemies to mush, swords that catch on fire due to alchemical substances... So much FUN!

But, at least for now, we won't be seeing them, I think. Probably in a few months after launch, maybe even in an expansion thing... Which sucks D:

[NeoMojo]

Drop the whole "Tool Kit" and make it a "Hammer Kit" seems to be the same idea anyways something melee to smack ppl around with except tool kit blows chicken chunks..

[coglin]

CaericElRoi, on 04 July 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

I think Anet forgot something about Engineers.  YES, they invented guns, blackpowder weapons, giggity gadgets, etc and evolved technology in Tyria.  HOWEVER, look at any martial force throughout history.  No matter how many advanced weapons they deploy, they still rely on tried and true (sometimes ancient) technology as well.  Hell, the US Army has guns that can see around corners and .50 cals that can hit a target at 1000 yards.  But they still issue a bowie knife in every E1's kit for survival and Hand to Hand tactical warfare.

The same should hold true for the Engineer.  Yes, they can use guns and have cool tech, but they shouldn't neglect their past and their use of martial and melee weapons!  That's just silly.

Your point here supports the perspective that we do not need a new weapon. We have kits for melee such as tool kit and bomb kit, much like the example you used. As well we have ailities designed into most of our utilities that support close range melee battles

NeoMojo, on 04 July 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Drop the whole "Tool Kit" and make it a "Hammer Kit" seems to be the same idea anyways something melee to smack ppl around with except tool kit blows chicken chunks..

Not that I can't appreciate where you are coming from, but the fact that it is not a specific tool is what gives it its diversity.

[gobberpooper]

CaericElRoi, on 04 July 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

I think Anet forgot something about Engineers.  YES, they invented guns, blackpowder weapons, giggity gadgets, etc and evolved technology in Tyria.  HOWEVER, look at any martial force throughout history.  No matter how many advanced weapons they deploy, they still rely on tried and true (sometimes ancient) technology as well.  Hell, the US Army has guns that can see around corners and .50 cals that can hit a target at 1000 yards.  But they still issue a bowie knife in every E1's kit for survival and Hand to Hand tactical warfare.

The same should hold true for the Engineer.  Yes, they can use guns and have cool tech, but they shouldn't neglect their past and their use of martial and melee weapons!  That's just silly.

FYI, the commando was just an April Fools' joke, it's not a real profession.

On topic, there's another very good reason to put in a hammer, and that is to balance the engineer's ranged vs melee for an adventurer/mid-line profession. The thief and ranger are both mid-line fighters and have a solid balance of melee and range. How about the engineer?
Ranged: Rifle, pistol, shield, harpoon, turrets, flamethrower, elixir gun, grenade kit
Melee: Tool kit, bomb kit
Shield is ranged because it's used to block projectiles, is thrown, and knockbacks affect those beyond melee range. Bomb kit isn't really melee, it's PBAoE but it's meant for melee range combat, same way that shield is meant for mid-range combat. Wow the word range is starting to sound really weird.....like rage but with an n.

[Darkiron]

dancingmonkey, on 29 June 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

How dare you bash the (air quotes).........If I wanted to quote him, I would, but air quotes created the more sarcastic visual I wanted.

This whole hammer thing baffles me. It seems to me that a small handful of folks here on the forums have some imaginary link they see between hammers and engineers. And that is okay, whats not okay, is all of you want to presume the rest of use should see this same imaginary link between the two.

What justifies assuming they would use hammers?

Cause when you fix stuff, you bash this Kitten out of it with a BFH. Seriously, something doesn't work, a few bashes with ye old sledge will either fix it, or break it so bad you need a new one..which also fixes it.

[joykafka]

I think it would be fantastic to add some weapon varieties to an Engineer, whose weapon choice is rather limited and "boring" in terms of imagination.  However, I don't find it fit if the reason is to have a "melee" weapon.  The best melee weapon for an Engineer, as far as I can find, is a pistol.   A pistol can shoot and kill at a distance of ZERO centimeter, whereas a hammer might need 100 centimeter to be able to swing with full strength.

The only thing lacking in attacking range is probably "LONG" range, whereas an Engineer can actually use a sniper rifle from a very far distance, with a long cool down time (for re-aiming).  However, this may ruin the balance of this game, and such extra damage can be actually achieved by pulling the enemy through your mines and turrets.

Besides all these, to use a hammer, one becomes more like a warrior or a guardian; to use a dagger, one becomes a ranger or a thief.  

Perhaps, an engineer that uses a "baton" would look more engineer-y.  A baton that can produce damage with electrical burns, magnetic knockback, poisonous stings. But, on the other hands, all these functions seem to be able to be done by a shield or other utilities.

Weapon or Utility, we need to switch anyway.   After trying to find out what other weapons are ideal for an Engineer, I guess I would rather have a complete and systematic utility system.  To me, those tool kits, bombs, grenades, mines, canisters, sprays, stings, spikes, turrets, gadgets, devices, or even (non following) golems, are what really make Engineer unique and fun. I'd hope to see more of them to come, such as setting up longer lasting traps, trenching or building up obstacles to change the Line of Sights, building bridge or staircase, shooting an electrical eye into the sky to take a peek at the deployment of the enemies, or an eyepiece that detects all traps and special effects, etc.

As for weapon, I am thinking perhaps the underwater weapon needs more attention.  It better use more "technology".

[gobberpooper]

joykafka, on 11 July 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

Perhaps, an engineer that uses a "baton" would look more engineer-y.  A baton that can produce damage with electrical burns, magnetic knockback, poisonous stings. But, on the other hands, all these functions seem to be able to be done by a shield or other utilities.

Weapon or Utility, we need to switch anyway.   After trying to find out what other weapons are ideal for an Engineer, I guess I would rather have a complete and systematic utility system.  To me, those tool kits, bombs, grenades, mines, canisters, sprays, stings, spikes, turrets, gadgets, devices, or even (non following) golems, are what really make Engineer unique and fun. I'd hope to see more of them to come, such as setting up longer lasting traps, trenching or building up obstacles to change the Line of Sights, building bridge or staircase, shooting an electrical eye into the sky to take a peek at the deployment of the enemies, or an eyepiece that detects all traps and special effects, etc.

I've been suggesting an Asuran baton for a while but nobody listens.
The difference between a weapon and a utility kit is that the weapon doesn't take up a utility skill slot. Plus a weapon is affected by sigils and weapon modifiers while utility kits aren't. The advantage with kits, though, is that you can create weapons that are specific only to the engineer, like the flamethrower or baton, and bring a lot more versatility to the game with a lot more weapon skills and playstyles.

[joykafka]

gobberpooper, on 11 July 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I've been suggesting an Asuran baton for a while but nobody listens.
The difference between a weapon and a utility kit is that the weapon doesn't take up a utility skill slot. Plus a weapon is affected by sigils and weapon modifiers while utility kits aren't. The advantage with kits, though, is that you can create weapons that are specific only to the engineer, like the flamethrower or baton, and bring a lot more versatility to the game with a lot more weapon skills and playstyles.

Thank you for adding some more thoughts about a new weapon, and its benefits.  I feel the content of weapon skills is what really matters after all, whether it falls in the category of a weapon or just another tool kit.   UI issue (utility skill slot) is just auxiliary.  The  best is to have a whole complete systematic tool kits to choose from, than have many tool kits that don't work well with one another.  But, such design is the difficult part.  

For example, the skills of the harpoon gun for an Engineer offer pretty much like what a Utility does.  That said, I think they can still function well, and as a gamer we could always find some good combos to make it even more interesting.  But, the harpoon is really too ordinary....

And so, I agree that perhaps tool kits are the only way to make Engineers different and unique.

Edited by joykafka, 12 July 2012 - 02:22 AM.

[Graywolf4409]

I think engineers need more weapons, cos Engineers won't exactly be having a blast with the fact they can only obtain two legendaries, and they get covered up by weapon kits!

Im stuck between engineer and warrior, and seriously the more i think about engineer aesthetics the tastier warrior looks.

[Aeon_Rex]

I think if they gave engineer a melee weapon, it should be a one handed mace. Then, we could dual wield, or use with a shield, if its 2h our only option for the shield is pistol.

[Absolutionis]

Aeon_Rex, on 14 July 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

I think if they gave engineer a melee weapon, it should be a one handed mace. Then, we could dual wield, or use with a shield, if its 2h our only option for the shield is pistol.

I misrad what you wrote and thought you were asking for dual-weilding shields.
Dual-Wield Shields would be awesome though.

[UltimateFightingCarebear]

PerishSong, on 29 June 2012 - 12:40 AM, said:

Why the engineer can't use the hammer is still beyond me. Only 2 professions can use it and it really suits the engineer as a craftsman/builder.

Also... magnets. The whole idea of using a hammer as a magnet is both so obvious and amazing

1. Hit -> Hit -> (AoE)
2. Magnetize weapon (Foe gets weakness, you gain might)
3. EMP (AoE dmg and daze)
4. Magnetic pole (Pull foes towards you) -> Reverse polarity (knock them back)
5. Reduce gravity (Grant allies swiftness and stability)
OR
5. Increase gravity (Foes get crippled or knocked down)

Thoughts?

Ok, let's think about this for a sec...

An Engy is not as sturdy as a Warrior.  Hence, any weapon skillset the Engy uses must incorporate some extra defensive mechanic.  The Ranger melee skills are a good example.

Engy Flamethrower and Tool Kit have features that are listed for the Engy Hammer.  How do you introduce a non-kit weapon that doesn't take away from these kits' functionality?

[brisk]

REMEMBER,

it has been stated by an ANET rep that other WEAPON choices are going to be implemented in the future.

Edited by brisk, 17 July 2012 - 11:35 PM.

[dancingmonkey]

I stick to my previous agreements with a few others, that I prefer they focus on fixing the kits first. Once that is done though, like the idea of 1 handed hammers.