97 replies to this topic

[Icy Spicy]

This is by far the biggest complaint I have with the combat system UI… it doesn’t tell me what skill is attacking me on screen. I hope they bring back the GW1 damage monitor… we don’t have the casting bar anymore and that’s fine, but knowing who and what I’m dealing with is IMO important in my skill choices… Sometimes I get a bunch of red numbers popping up, and I should be able to tell in the heat of combat if it’s just someone spamming weak attacks OR a group of 5 focusing fire on me. Right now all you can see is just a barrage of red numbers that you can’t even read sometimes…  

I found this to be especially problematic in WvW using ballista (and probably some other siege weapons too), anyone that has used this knows how powerful this is… but for the person on the receiving end you essentially have NO indication that you got hit by one of these unless you looked for it, because its basically just an arrow that travels at 200mph that takes out ½ of your health, then you are dead and no explanation is really given…. I mean I think you would know if you got hit by a bolt the size of a great sword


http://wiki.guildwar...#Damage_monitor
^why cant we have this?

[kash]

The problem for me in this regard isn't that there's no damage monitor but that particle effects are too consuming visually. In small scale fights I can normally tell what's being used and that's with only two betas but in large scale combat there's just too many dense particle effects going on to know what's being used. There really needs to be a slider for particles to bring them down to a low setting where it's bare bones but visually indicative.

[Sans]

Icy Spicy, on 29 June 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

This is by far the biggest complaint I have with the combat system UI… it doesn’t tell me what skill is attacking me on screen. I hope they bring back the GW1 damage monitor… we don’t have the casting bar anymore and that’s fine, but knowing who and what I’m dealing with is IMO important in my skill choices… Sometimes I get a bunch of red numbers popping up, and I should be able to tell in the heat of combat if it’s just someone spamming weak attacks OR a group of 5 focusing fire on me. Right now all you can see is just a barrage of red numbers that you can’t even read sometimes…  

I found this to be especially problematic in WvW using ballista (and probably some other siege weapons too), anyone that has used this knows how powerful this is… but for the person on the receiving end you essentially have NO indication that you got hit by one of these unless you looked for it, because its basically just an arrow that travels at 200mph that takes out ½ of your health, then you are dead and no explanation is really given…. I mean I think you would know if you got hit by a bolt the size of a great sword


http://wiki.guildwar...#Damage_monitor
^why cant we have this?

No you wouldn't, because you'd be dead.

[Ashanor]

I agree. GW2 needs a damage monitor or combat log of some kind.

[Plutonsvea]

I agree, something like the dead-result in PvP. But an active one somewhere on-screen.
(Not all people want these, so it would be a good idea to have a hide option)

[prism2525]

Well, in an all-out war you don't really know who's using what right? That element of confusion adds to the game's beauty imo.

I just look out at my health bar and get out of red circles ASAP.

[Aeggil]

What I really miss is being able to see the target of my target. (In Lotro there was an option to have a secondary target on screen which was the person that the mob you're fighting is targetting). Makes it nice and easy to see if you've got aggro, or if not you, then who. You could also cast heals and they'd be forwarded to that target.

Hope that makes sense, finding it hard to explain. Would love to have this feature in game. If it's there and I missed it, please point it out

[dawnq]

stop wanting more ui to look at. instead ask for the choreography of the skills to be better.

[Lethality]

prism2525, on 29 June 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

Well, in an all-out war you don't really know who's using what right? That element of confusion adds to the game's beauty imo.

I just look out at my health bar and get out of red circles ASAP.

In all-out war, there aren't red circles on the ground, either.

Combat log and better monitoring needed,

[Eadmund]

dawnq, on 29 June 2012 - 09:31 AM, said:

stop wanting more ui to look at. instead ask for the choreography of the skills to be better.

Agreed. ArenaNet doesn't want people looking at the UI, so I can't see a damage monitor happening. Given a bit of time we'll start to recognise which skills are being used, but the particle effects are still a bit overwhelming sometimes.

[Sir Bertrand]

Lethality, on 29 June 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

In all-out war, there aren't red circles on the ground, either.

Combat log and better monitoring needed,

In all-out war, you wouldn't need to differentiate between your ally's and your enemy's fire, you'll just get the heck out of there.

If they can do something about the overwhelming particle effects (which they are working on), I don't think we'll need a damage monitor.  Just watch the battlefield.

[borovnica]

I never felt need to have "combat monitor" at all in PvE. in PvP it's a different thing, and we do have combat log when you get killed.

So imho, for PvE I feel like it's not needed.

[LOCOMOFO]

Eadmund, on 29 June 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

ArenaNet doesn't want people looking at the UI, so I can't see a damage monitor happening. Given a bit of time we'll start to recognise which skills are being used, but the particle effects are still a bit overwhelming sometimes.

I agree with this.

I remember watching an early vid of a couple devs playing together and they pointed out how important it is to pick up on enemy animations.  That's the key.

Once you get a bit of experience in the game, it shouldn't be a problem.  Just fix the particle effects issue.

But if they did add a feature like this, it better be optional.

Edited by LOCOMOFO, 29 June 2012 - 12:14 PM.

[TheGizzy]

In all the time I played GW1, I never used the damage monitor... and yet, oddly, when I read the OP I initially felt like, "hey yeah... we need one in GW2... how'm I supposed to know what I'm getting hit by?"

Then I stopped and thought about that for a minute...

I didn't use it in GW1 because I soon learned to recognize what I was being targeted with... the distinct sound of that Hundred Blades thing, the visual of Meteor Shower, the Panic animation... and I could tell by the wind-up animation when Monster Stomp was coming, etc.

And I realized it will be same in GW2.  My initial reaction of thinking we need one is really just my wanting a security blanket - the foes and their skills are new to me... I'm skeered! LOL  But just like in GW1, I'll soon learn what they're up to - no damage monitor required.

[HalcyonArc]

Methinks there is a damage log.
In the chat window near the bottom is another tab for it, replacing the chat menu.

I haven't tried it, but I'm not sure in WvW if it'll help since the enemies are "*colour* Invaders"...

Edited by HalcyonArc, 29 June 2012 - 12:32 PM.

[Sinte]

Hrm...never had a problem with this in sPvP or WvW. Guess I pay more attention than most. Not against the idea, it'll help people for sure one way or the other.

Prepare for the "DPS meters are evil and are the bane of MMOs" crew.

HalcyonArc, on 29 June 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

Methinks there is a damage log.
In the chat window near the bottom is another tab for it, replacing the chat menu.

I haven't tried it, but I'm not sure in WvW if it'll help since the enemies are "*colour* Invaders"...

Scrolls way too fast to be of any kind of use, because it incorporates enemy activity, friendly activity, your activity and errors. I guess it's not too bad in sPvP, but completely worthless in WvW.

Edited by Sinte, 29 June 2012 - 01:50 PM.

[Icy Spicy]

yeah theres a damage log in the chat window but its not the most practical place to find that information, all they have to do is put it in a separate UI chat box and add icons instead of numbers (i can already see numbers, but i dont know whats causing it)

Sir Bertrand, on 29 June 2012 - 11:46 AM, said:

In all-out war, you wouldn't need to differentiate between your ally's and your enemy's fire, you'll just get the heck out of there.

If they can do something about the overwhelming particle effects (which they are working on), I don't think we'll need a damage monitor.  Just watch the battlefield.

The post is mainly aimed at WvW. sPvP has a much smaller and manageable amount of people, but still it would be nice, and honestly it makes no difference in PvE cuz its PvE, but again, would be nice. Bringing the death result screen from sPvP to other formats would be a good start...

As for not looking at the UI and watch the battlefield, first of all we can only see one side unless u turn, yes to some degrees the particle effect and sometimes really messed up camera angels do cause issues. but we cant always see what hit us unless we see the casting animation (which is not an easy thing to do in WvW with so many people around), but even if I don't see who is attacking me i should be able to tell the difference between someone hit me with a flying hammer vs someone hitting me with an arrow... like in the ballista example, you health just went down 8k and you may not even know why, if you saw the bolt which is kinda hard as is you'll prob think you got hit by a ranger, and if this is mid combat and you are already taking hits, you probably wont even see the red 8k damage popping up as it'll be covered by a bunch of other numbers

[Haterx732]

err.. so we're back to this topic again are we?

There's a way of doing it in chat I believe. Though it isn't very appealing in it's UI.

[Nicator]

I hope not, at least not like GW. This will take a huge deal of skill and need for perception out of PvP, and possibly PvE too. I am fine with a chat log though.

[Ostra]

No we dont need it. Pay better attention and learn what is going on around you.

combat logs are for lazy/bads that do not learn from their mistakes and do not have a good sense of presence. I have never once been killed in WvW by a ballista and thought "Oh wow what killed me?" And I have died in WvW a lot mind you

[Frizz]

Haterx732, on 29 June 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

err.. so we're back to this topic again are we?

There's a way of doing it in chat I believe. Though it isn't very appealing in it's UI.

Yeah there's a combat log in the chat window. But of course people are too lazy to pay any attention to that.
The main focus of GW2 combat PvE and PvP is not how much dmg you do, but to play the game, so it's hidden in the chat. *shrug*

There's alot of visual cues and all that stuff that is about alot more important to know rather than plain damage output and such. Even if you get caught by surprise you can consult the combat log to check what killed you if you really need to know. So it's not like you actually can say you can't find the information you need, though it is raw data, which can be annoying for the untrained mind.

Anyway, so far I never found any use for a combat log in PvE. I would hate to see such a thing in PvE too. If it's needed to be that effective in the PvE side of things, that you need to track your output, then the game fails for alot of people. Talking about hide options for such new features is probably left the other way around, make an option to not hide it. THen again, there also is a combat log in PvE, so it's not like you're totally left in the dark. Then again I suppose I don't play for doing the most damage or playing the most effective way. I would be stubborn enough to simply not care either.

In WvW which I havent played yet, I can imagine it's not that useful either but I would have expected a window on death. It is PvP right? and it's a handy tool to see what other people are playing, and that enhances the learning curve, which I find needed in PvP games.

[UssjTrunks]

You get to see the damage breakdown after you die. You can usually tell quite easily what hit you just based on the damage and attack animation.

Edited by UssjTrunks, 29 June 2012 - 02:50 PM.

[Hanzo]

I have to say, big DE's with loads of people are very confusing. I can never tell who's doing what and what's going on. So I go ranged to be sure (even though I'd like to play melee).

[Icy Spicy]

Ostra, on 29 June 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

combat logs are for lazy/bads that do not learn from their mistakes and do not have a good sense of presence. I have never once been killed in WvW by a ballista and thought "Oh wow what killed me?" And I have died in WvW a lot mind you

or maybe you just didnt know you got killed by one of those... i spent the stress test in WvW and prob got 50 kills using them, hard to tell really cuz guess what you see massive white numbers overlap when you hit 5 people at the same time... a couple of times i just sat in the corner, and fired away, and the funny part is probably not one person on the enemy team even looked in my direction unless it was placed it infront of them.... good placement or lack of awareness/information? you decide

UssjTrunks, on 29 June 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

You get to see the damage breakdown after you die.

only in sPvP

[UssjTrunks]

RazeBloodgrin, on 29 June 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

I have to say, big DE's with loads of people are very confusing. I can never tell who's doing what and what's going on. So I go ranged to be sure (even though I'd like to play melee).

There's no room for strategy in a zerg fest lol. It is what it is.

[Linfang]

I am surprised no one had the witty responce of Learn to Play and don't die.

[Dream Catcher]

No, No, No to more add ons' or anything that makes the game more boring, bean counters stand in the queue to the left please. The combat is all about seeing what is happening to you and around you visually, not by checking some data log, if this is to hard to do or comprehend then do something else, people are always trying to dumb down games, just so they can have what they like.

Combat logs are not fun, they push people towards synthetic builds and wiki's, there is nothing more annoying than some little scrub using combat logs to see if everybody is using the same wiki build as them, because it does 2 more DPS than any other build. Even though the mug is stood there getting hammered because they haven't realized yet they need to move about when in combat.

Edited by Dream Catcher, 29 June 2012 - 03:55 PM.

[mutalisk]

kash, on 29 June 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

The problem for me in this regard isn't that there's no damage monitor but that particle effects are too consuming visually. In small scale fights I can normally tell what's being used and that's with only two betas but in large scale combat there's just too many dense particle effects going on to know what's being used. There really needs to be a slider for particles to bring them down to a low setting where it's bare bones but visually indicative.

Because well your a nood right now. thats all it is! if you play this game for months, years or more you will become a master of understanding what animation are for what types of abilitys in large fights outside of small scale pvp. people some of you remember gaming be for when you played to play the game and did not kick and scream when things did not come easy at first.

i miss hard games now a days they are all fluff easy mmo's and FPS....

RTS seems to be the last of the challenging play but thats mainly because its almost totally player vs player

would a combat log of some kinda be a good add on to this game? i think so is it needed to learn to play just as well as it would be to have it no. its just an added fun factor so because of that alone it seems its worth adding to the game.

Linfang, on 29 June 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

I am surprised no one had the witty responce of Learn to Play and don't die.

its a term a lot of bad players tell other bad players but being this game is not even out yet. i being a bad player technically. i will say it! If you find some thing hard at first its prob a L2P proble.  so learn to F'ing play for once noods! =p

[Icy Spicy]

Linfang, on 29 June 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

I am surprised no one had the witty responce of Learn to Play and don't die.

well if this is about a casting bar like GW1, then yeah i'd agree with you, GW2 is about watching for the action and not looking at the status bar on top

But this thread is about after the hit is taken, I mean the game already tells you (or at least tries to) how much damage you took, so its not like you donno know you took a hit, so they might as well tell us what was the skill used, pretty obvious in 1v1, but not so easy to keep track of in bigger fights, esp if you are melee

if you ever find yourself in a 1v5 or whatever and know exactly what skill each person is using on you at all times via watching the battlefield, then props to you

Dream Catcher, on 29 June 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

-snip-

what? how exactly does know what you hit translate into "push people towards synthetic builds and wiki's"

watch the combat yes thats important for dodging which is not what im mostly talking about... on a side note i dont think 95% of the players can recognize every signet cast animation and know exactly what it does... can you honestly say if 3 random players line up infront of you and cast 3 random signets at the same time that you'll know what each one of them does? but anyways thats not important as im talking about showing whats done after the cast done... not before it has taken place

Edited by Icy Spicy, 29 June 2012 - 03:53 PM.

[Dream Catcher]

Icy Spicy, on 29 June 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

well if this is about a casting bar like GW1, then yeah i'd agree with you, GW2 is about watching for the action and not looking at the status bar on top

But this thread is about after the hit is taken, I mean the game already tells you (or at least tries to) how much damage you took, so its not like you donno know you took a hit, so they might as well tell us what was the skill used, pretty obvious in 1v1, but not so easy to keep track of in bigger fights, esp if you are melee

if you ever find yourself in a 1v5 or whatever and know exactly what skill each person is using on you at all times via watching the battlefield, then props to you




what? how exactly does know what you hit translate into "push people towards synthetic builds and wiki's"

watch the combat yes thats important for dodging which is not what im mostly talking about... on a side note i dont think 95% of the players can recognize every signet cast animation and know exactly what it does... can you honestly say if 3 random players line up infront of you and cast 3 random signets at the same time that you'll know what each one of them does? but anyways thats not important as im talking about showing whats done after the cast done... not before it has taken place

Depends how long you have been playing, people forget that you do not have to know everything about a game the moment you first play it, games should always have a learning curve to them.