97 replies to this topic

[Craywulf]

Sprawl, on 01 July 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

They dont want to clutter the screen? Lol have you played?  This is by far the most cluttered game ever with all yhe particle effects.

I'm not disputing the particle effects.

[ogrejd]

Burch8400, on 01 July 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

I agree no need for DPS meter in GW2, we do have a combat log for personal use.

Not that DPS meters are the subject of the thread, of course. Yay for deliberate derailment! A damage monitor (as in GW1) is a completely different thing.

[ylistra]

If you just want to know what killed you, it would be an elegant solution to integrate it into the graphics of the corpse.

Got killed by fire damage?  Corpse is all burnt and charred.
Got killed by blunt force trama?  Limbs are all broken and twisted in odd places.

It would be harder to read but more immersive.

[Specialz]

Sinte, on 30 June 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

If a bunch of idiots use it as an epeen meter does it make it a bad tool for gathering actual data? No. People care way too much what others think.

It has nothing really to do with other people, i personally think that having dps meters brings the game down to a sub layer that only WoW should be in. But seriously, DPS meters don't add anything, all it does it forces player to conform to a certain play style, it takes away ALL individuality, skill and it turns the game into a rotation based game. But worst it creates an environment that could potentially take away teamwork since players would be more worried about their dps than actually playing their class properly and while you might think it doesn't affect me, it does eventually because I might party up with those clowns.

IN the long run it only rewards classes that are top dps. Your dps does not reflect your ability to play the game and if it doesn't why have it? especially in a game like guild wars 2 where the is no trinity. IN a trinity based game you need a tank and cleric and when you see them at the bottom of the dps chart it is perfectly OK. In guild wars 2, a dps meter wont take into account the benefit of using a staff as an elementalist or mesmer, all it would show is low dps.

[Xpl0iter]

WTB Parrot addon made for WoW

[Underdog]

if there was a larg red ring on the ground ... and than you blow up... you probably got hit by a Treb....

Edited by Underdog, 02 July 2012 - 04:02 AM.

[Sinte]

Specialz, on 02 July 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

It has nothing really to do with other people, i personally think that having dps meters brings the game down to a sub layer that only WoW should be in. But seriously, DPS meters don't add anything, all it does it forces player to conform to a certain play style, it takes away ALL individuality, skill and it turns the game into a rotation based game. But worst it creates an environment that could potentially take away teamwork since players would be more worried about their dps than actually playing their class properly and while you might think it doesn't affect me, it does eventually because I might party up with those clowns.

IN the long run it only rewards classes that are top dps. Your dps does not reflect your ability to play the game and if it doesn't why have it? especially in a game like guild wars 2 where the is no trinity. IN a trinity based game you need a tank and cleric and when you see them at the bottom of the dps chart it is perfectly OK. In guild wars 2, a dps meter wont take into account the benefit of using a staff as an elementalist or mesmer, all it would show is low dps.

I don't understand why you are stuck on the dps meter mentality. I just simply said they're misused by both parties, hardcore and the casuals, most of the time. Its not what I want, its not what people want. Nobody cares about how much dps you're putting out in this game, survival and burst damage is much more essential. We want to see better damage indication in large scale fights.

This brings me back to my original post about the "dps meter" crowd. They will bitch and moan about not needing something of indication in game, even if it is NOT a dps meter that people are asking for.

Edited by Sinte, 02 July 2012 - 03:23 PM.

[Frakov]

Let's take a step back for a moment and put aside how other games have implemented meters/monitors.

The purpose of having a meter or monitor is usually to check critical data while doing a complex task. Take driving for example, vehicles nowadays have several gauges, one of which is the speedometer. While most of the time experienced drivers are able to drive without looking at the speedometer, it's nice to be able to glance at it for times when so much is going on and the speed you're going is critical. Of course it's entirely possible to gauge your speed without one, but the extra work actually detracts from your attention on the road.

Now let's bring this back to GW2. As I understand it, there's currently a basic combat log. The problem with that is it may make communication cumbersome if you need to try to coordinate with the random people you're doing a DE or WvW with. In large-scale DEs or WvW encounters, there's so much to pay attention to–red/white rings, fractions-of-a-second telegraphs, adds, combo fields, etc– that players should be able to monitor damage and damage sources without them having to consider an army's worth of factors. Players already have enough they need to pay attention to and calculate during large-scale encounters.

Now with those things in mind, my solution would be to implement a damage monitor which could be shown at the press of a hotkey so  that it doesn't clutter the HUD but is still available to glance at when you need to like the gauges on a car's dash. Since it is hidden by default, people won't be tempted to constantly look at it. If some players do have it shown for the entire duration of the battle they would only be handicapping themselves because it would take their attention away from one of the other critical elements of the battle. At the end of the day meters are just tools, and you wouldn't be likely to eliminate rulers (or meter sticks) just because some kids like to use them as swords to see who's stronger.

[Itharius]

ylistra, on 02 July 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

Got killed by fire damage?  Corpse is all burnt and charred.
Got killed by blunt force trama?  Limbs are all broken and twisted in odd places.

ESRB: Rated T for Teen.

[Specialz]

Sinte, on 02 July 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

I don't understand why you are stuck on the dps meter mentality. I just simply said they're misused by both parties, hardcore and the casuals, most of the time. Its not what I want, its not what people want. Nobody cares about how much dps you're putting out in this game, survival and burst damage is much more essential. We want to see better damage indication in large scale fights.

This brings me back to my original post about the "dps meter" crowd. They will bitch and moan about not needing something of indication in game, even if it is NOT a dps meter that people are asking for.

You are the one who brought it up, I responded to you and you responded back and I did that's why I keep bringing it back because I keep making the stupid mistake of reading your post. now do you feel better?

[Slashiroth]

We'll probably see something like that tbh though just not yet.

You know what would be a pretty funny idea? Adding a damage area indicator like they have on FPS games.

[redsuns]

People got to know the devs can't fix everything at once and the game hasnt even launched yet. In terms of polish, gw2 is already doing a very good job.

One concern from me is there are too many numbers in the combat log that dont make sense. And the combat log needs different color highlights for skills and damage numbers for better visibility. But all these are not high priority.

Edited by redsuns, 03 July 2012 - 02:54 AM.

[Burch84]

ogrejd, on 01 July 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

Not that DPS meters are the subject of the thread, of course. Yay for deliberate derailment! A damage monitor (as in GW1) is a completely different thing.

I was just agreeing with Itharius post "Itharius, on 29 June 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:" no derailment intended.

[castiel]

i completely agree.

they need a detailed, proper combat log like every other mmo has.

all i see now 99% of the time is

"bleeding 20000 damage"
"other 2000 damage"

ok i get it, something caused me to bleed a lot, but i have no idea what it was or who it was.

[Ostra]

castiel, on 03 July 2012 - 04:56 AM, said:

i completely agree. they need a detailed, proper combat log like every other mmo has. all i see now 99% of the time is "bleeding 20000 damage" "other 2000 damage" ok i get it, something caused me to bleed a lot, but i have no idea what it was or who it was.

So the question comes down to why does it matter??

If you are in combat with 2 other people or even 5 other people. Why does it matter WHO placed the bleed damage on you or what kill they used? Your role at that point is to cure the bleeding if its dangerous to you. Can you cure the bleeding by knowing who did it?

This is the problem it doesnt affect the combat system ONLY take away from it. It means you are more worried about some text popup then the actual combat and goes against what Anet said they want. Which is to be in the world not staring at a bunch of UI screens.

People keep asking for things to change the basic ideas Anet has placed... its a waste of resources and time. Stop trying to make this game another WOW or AOC or whatever game you want it and just enjoy it for what it is.


With that said, a screen like the death screen in PvP would be fine and if that is what you are wanting then I will support it, but no to the on the fly in the screen constant updating Damage chart

[TheyCallMeIgi]

Craywulf, on 01 July 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

you see numbers pop up with red sploch background (bleeding)

You're kidding, aren't you?

---------
Okay, so if you want the UI to be so clean and not informative at all, then I suggest ANet to remove the effect bar under your target's HP bar, because if you want to know what boons and conditions he has, just watch the animation. It doesn't make sense to be able to see what boons/conditions your target has (plus they don't want you to look at the UI. Plus it's weird that you can see what element the ele you're targetting is attuned to, because you can see that already by the animation, and "that element of confusion adds to the game's beauty imo"), if you can't even tell what is hitting you from behind (IRL you would never guess if it's a bullet, arrow or a fabulous flying axe that is stuck in your head. You only know that you've been hit). Also, remove any on-screen numbers, because you already have your health globe and target's HP bar, and by watching them you can tell how hard he or you are being hit.

Remove this:

Because just by watching the animation, you can tell what's gonna happen. Standing in a fire circle? Using your Unload? You gussed it - you're setting your target on fire.

Yeah, I know the topic is old, but it's great.

Edited by TheyCallMeIgi, 22 August 2012 - 02:52 PM.

[God Of Fissures]

"Play the game, not the UI"

/endthread

[TheyCallMeIgi]

God Of Fissures, on 22 August 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

"Play the game, not the UI"

/endthread

I recommend Ctrl+Shift+H.

-----
I think I have a better solution.
 Untitled.jpg   75.09K   32 downloads
This would tell us what direction we're being attacked from.

Edited by TheyCallMeIgi, 22 August 2012 - 03:56 PM.

[Red_Falcon]

I'm totally against this.

It removes a major degree of tactical depth from pvp.
If I managed to flank you or get behind your back, or perhaps find an elevation or an hidden spot to shoot you from, I want a bonus out of it.
I outplayed you strategically so I deserve it.
Similarly, I don't want the UI to spoonfeed me with infos my eyes missed, I want the game to ask me to be well-aware of my surroundings.

I love how in GW2, contrarily to other MMOs, the environment plays a much more important role in PvP than just being a source of LoS.

[TheyCallMeIgi]

Red_Falcon, on 22 August 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

It removes a major degree of tactical depth from pvp.
If I managed to flank you or get behind your back, or perhaps find an elevation or an hidden spot to shoot you from, I want a bonus out of it.
I outplayed you strategically so I deserve it.

There is no strategy and tactics in the fact that your enemy can't even tell what direction are they being attacked from. Even when it was me spiking from a hidden spot, it felt so unbelievably stupid how long it can take for them to realise who's killing them. I can imagine some kids sitting in the balcony, throwing things at a passer-by, thinking that they outplayed him strategically, because he kept getting hit, and his skin was numb, so he didn't know what actually was happening, but knew something definitely was.

Quote

Similarly, I don't want the UI to spoonfeed me with infos my eyes missed

Once again, CTRL+Shift+H and enjoy the game.

[Flying Walrus]

There is a Combat Log in GW2.

The problem is that everything happens so fast, it is virtually unreadable and therefore useless.

[dawnq]

pfft people never played arma.

[Pipples]

I support a damage monitor if they aren't allowing mods and crack down on mods that use game data outside the client (via memory stacks, etc)

[Striken7]

Ostra, on 03 July 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

So the question comes down to why does it matter??

If you are in combat with 2 other people or even 5 other people. Why does it matter WHO placed the bleed damage on you or what kill they used?

Seriously? You seriously can't understand why it would be beneficial to know who/what is dealing the most damage to you? I don't believe you, and instead will give you the benefit of the doubt that you're just trolling.

[Tristany]

Combat Log will lead to parsing and damage meters. Would kill this game before it even got started.

[Shock_Treatment]

Good lord, in a month y'all better be able to recognize every damn spell in the game cast by any class!

There is no need to add more kitten to the UI.

NO NO NO NO!

[Tristany]

TheyCallMeIgi, on 22 August 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

There is no strategy and tactics in the fact that your enemy can't even tell what direction are they being attacked from.

Counter strategy.. move outta range until they show themselves or you pinpoint their location.

And I didn't need a meter to tell me that.

[Donny]

I actually thought with all the fantastic visuals it was pretty easy to see what was attacking me

[Helion]

Issent there a combat log in the chat tab lower left corner
to see whats happend???

[Nox_Aeterna]

This discussion is old and it is pointless.

In the end there will always be people that want the damage meters so they can control the whole battle to its minimum details and there will be people like me , who want to play and have fun , if we die "oh well think it was the huge blast" and we go again.

In the end the devs know both sides exist and will decide if will implement so people can control the hell out of it or will not so people can play free from all the control a tool like this subjects the players to.