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Where is the Damage Monitor? I want to know what’s killing me…

Damage UI User Interface Combat PvP WvW PvE

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#91 Tristany


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Posted 22 August 2012 - 11:48 PM

View PostHelion, on 22 August 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

Issent there a combat log in the chat tab lower left corner
to see whats happend???

Yeah but apparently it's too hard for them to use.  I don't understand why there has to be so many "addons" that people end up watching them instead of playign the game... liek reading the streamign matrix code.. "All I see is blonde, brunette, redhead..."

#92 Red_Falcon


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Posted 22 August 2012 - 11:54 PM

View PostTheyCallMeIgi, on 22 August 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

There is no strategy and tactics in the fact that your enemy can't even tell what direction are they being attacked from.

So basically, all the military tactics emplyed since the Roman era are useless.

General: "Charge right through their first lines!"
Soldier: "But sir, we could flank them and shoot them from the bushes so they die before they even notice"

#93 TheyCallMeIgi


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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:03 AM

View PostRed_Falcon, on 22 August 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

So basically, all the military tactics emplyed since the Roman era are useless.

General: "Charge right through their first lines!"
Soldier: "But sir, we could flank them and shoot them from the bushes so they die before they even notice"
Soldier: "They were hit, but didn't die. What now?"
General: "No worry, they still don't know what hit them. It could be even a flying cow. Just keep attacking".

#94 Sol1


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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:13 AM

View PostSans, on 29 June 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

No you wouldn't, because you'd be dead.

And in real life I wouldn't rez at a waypoint...

A small icon next to the damage numbers would certainly go a long way for identifying attacks that you need to work better at avoiding.

#95 golden_radish


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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:55 AM

I know there is a combat log chat tab.  It has, at best, with a small font, less than two dozen lines of combat in it.  Also, it isn't accurate.  The current combat log in gw2 records direct damage only.  It does not record boons, conditions, damage from them, attempted abilities, critical hits as different than regular hits, bleeds, burns,etc etc. It's also not even accurate to the second, never mind the millisecond.

And before you go all weird, Alganon has a better logging system than GW2, today.  Alganon.  Never mind EQ1, EQ2, WAR, Vanguard, RIFT, and WoW.  (They're all good, too)

However, not to be "that guy" that doesn't offer constructive suggestions...
MMO Client Side Logging
Time/date stamps
There are a few schools of thought regarding how to handle client-side log data that traverses more than one day, or more than one play session. A few MMO's create a new logfile per session, and ignore the date. A few create a new file per day, but unfortunately for players that play across local midnight, data integrity is lost, as some of the new day's data is in the old day's file. So, what to do?
My personal choice would be to have a single logfile per character that's appended to over time, with full date/timestamps within each line of the file. At the players option, this file could be created new each day, or new each session, but the default would be a single file.

-The format of the timestamp that would start out each line would be:
YYYY - Year, 2012+
MM - Month, 01-12
DD - Day, 01-31
HH - Hour, 00-23
MM - Minute, 00-59
SS - Second, 00-59
TTT - Millisecond, 000-999

20111230084412.453 ... ... ...
(December 30, 2011, 8am 44minutes, 12 seconds, 453 milliseconds)

This value would be localized to the client clock, so the logs would be as the player observed them while playing on their machine, at their local time.

Subsecond, that is, millisecond-accurate timestamping is -required-, not an option. The last thing you want is players showing you logs of several, several dozen, or even more events occuring inside one second with no context as to precedence/order.

Format considerations

If your developers can't write a PCRE to separate out the fields of the logfile, you're doing it wrong. Also, avoid multi-line output for the same effect. That is, avoid things like putting normal and crit damage on two separate lines for the same hit.

The logfile itself should be plaintext only, with ascii printable only. Specifically, 0-9a-zA-Z, plus printable characters only. No embedded color data, no embedded control characters, and as few special characters as possible. (such as !@#$%^&*(){}[]:;?/ ) The exception to this is field delimeters, if used.

Ideally, it should be trivial to be able to discern the following from a single line: Who is doing what; specifically if it is the primary player or someone else. If the damage is a DoT or direct. If the damage is an initial DD+DoT, subsequent tick of a DoT or extra damage on the final tick of a DoT.

What is the damage type, if applicable? How much of the damage was blocked, mitigated, or in some way absorbed/reflected, while still being able to calculate the total damage, per line. If the attack was a critical attack, extra damage, etc. If the target was immune to the damage type, and/or if the action attempted was invalid in some way.

Was the damage the result of an AE, contagious effect, or similar non-directed effect? Or was it a single target directed effect?

ALL actions (even those attempted but failed) should have a logfile entry, even if it is simply: Player used action ______. Actions without log entries didn't happen. Secondary/Ancillary benefits from temporary effects that result in buffs, damage or heals should be attributed to the originator of the effect. This means if Bob casts a damage shield or proc buff, every time it fires it should be attributed to Bob. If Bob wasn't there, that damage or heal wouldn't be there, right? So give credit where credit is due. Go Bob!

As well, heals should be enumerated, as well as critical heals. AE heals should show both source and all targets.

When in private group/raid instances, ALL in-combat data should be logged, regardless of player location/distance. When in the open/shared world, a reasonable range would likely be the same range for /say or /yell, or something similar. However, larger is definitely better, here. At minimum, if I have line-of-sight to the monster or player, I should be logging that fight.

Temporal output considerations
The logfile should be created in realtime, with a buffer length of exactly one line. It should NOT be buffered by time, an arbitrary number of lines greater than 1, an arbitrary output buffer size, (like 1k, 8k or similar) or any other annoyance that would separate the player from as close to real-time output as possible.
To see what I'm describing, EQ & EQ2 are excellent examples. When an entry occurs in the game, it is output in the log basically instantly. Fights can be parsed out as they're occurring.
It would also be ideal to have an "in combat" and "out of combat" message/delimiter to determine the absolute start and the absolute end of fight times.

Logfile locations & naming
Ideally, logfiles would go somewhere into "My Documents\..." Just ensure that server and character name is indicated in the path or name. If the location is going to be unique, of course, the filename can be generic (combat.log). However, if the location is going to be common for all logs, the filename should be unique (Server_Player_Combat.log).

Options for logging via the UI.
a /log or /combatlog command as either a toggle, enable or disable.
Persistent logging across all play sessions (yes/no)
Create new logfile per day (yes/no)
Create new logfile per play session (yes/no)
Log players outside group/raid (yes/no)

Justification for client side logging
Players can give impressions, opinions, and rants in as many /feedbacks, /bugs, threads and tickets as they want, but without a logfile to back it up, it's nothing but a waste of time. People may observe some massive disparity in effectiveness between themselves and other players but without a logfile, no-one can confirm their observations.

Finally, I must emphasize this point: All feedback regarding class envy/balance, with respect to combat damage, will ultimately be untrustworthy without a client side logfile to parse. Until such a feature is added/enabled into the GW2 client, mathematically accurate feedback and discussion on the subject will not be possible.
If Alganon can do it, GW2 can do it. :D

#96 jdavet90


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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:58 AM

My opinion, if you died, just get better and don't die next time...only dead people die.

#97 Tristany


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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:18 AM

"Where is the Damage Monitor? I want to know what’s killing me…"

Me.  I thought the teabag made it obvious.

#98 jdavet90


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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:20 AM

Do we really want to turn this game into world of meter watching though...I seriously thought that this wouldn't be an issue with Guild Wars 2. Arenanet wants you to rely on recognizing skills and acting according...not watching for specific icons and performing a rehearsed action according to said icon.

Edited by jdavet90, 23 August 2012 - 01:21 AM.

Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Damage, UI, User Interface, Combat, PvP, WvW, PvE

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