[Rivenheart]

Whisper said:

Heh now you sound like the matrix ^^. "You are the cancer of the planet and we are the cure" :P

What if this is the case? The Gods see that the Charr and Asura are getting way too destructive for the Tyria's good, so the Gods decide to clean house. Both Charr and Asura (and humans who in the minority) thirst for empire and power, so the Gods allow the Ancient Dragons to clean the slate. I don't remember anywhere that says the Ancient Dragons are enemies of the Gods, so maybe the Ancient Dragons are just sleeping because they haven't been called upon. The Ancient Dragons' power rivals that of the Gods, but it is not stated that they are in fact direct rivals.

From the Movement of the World we get this:

Quote

The cycle of their awakening reaches back to the time of the giganticus lupicus, and even further, back into prehistory. The only thing known about these monsters is that they have no pity, no curiosity—no concern at all for the other races of the world. Their only goal seems to be to dominate, to control, and to destroy.

In the EotN quest Path to Revelations (and related Cipher quests), the facets of the Gods appear in Dragon form.

Quote

The stories of your god Kormir fascinate me most. To think that a mortal... a human, no less... could transcend into something greater. Was it all part of the Eternal Alchemy? Was there some hidden design that preordained it would happen that way? Or does a power exist that can go against the schemes of fate?

Kormir was human, and as far as we know, always human, so why would her Facet be represented as a Dragon?
From the Official GW wiki:

Quote

A Facet is one aspect of one the gods.

This implies that the Gods have multiple aspects, at least being both their Avatar form and the facet form.

Also this from wiki (I know wiki is not the most reliable source)

Quote

Apocalypse (Greek: Ἀποκάλυψις Apokálypsis; "lifting of the veil" or "revelation") is a term applied to the disclosure to certain privileged persons of something hidden from the majority of humankind. Today the term is often used to refer to the end of the world, which may be a shortening of the phrase apokalupsis eschaton which literally means "revelation at the end of the æon, or age".

In thinking thinking of this in relation to Hinduism, where you have three aspects of the Divine:

Brahma - the Creator / Vishnu - the Maintainer / Shiva - the Destroyer

In Guild Wars this could be seen as the Gods being the creators, Glint and the Forgotten being the Maintainers (and to a lesser extent, Kuunavang), and the Ancient Dragons being the Destroyers.

Yeah, again from wiki:

Quote

However, Hindu conceptions of time, like those found in other non-Western traditions, is cyclical in that one age may end but another will always begin. As such, the cycle of birth, growth, decay, death, and renewal at the individual level finds its echo in the cosmic order of all things, yet affected by the vagaries of the comings and goings of divine interventions in the Vaishnavite belief.

So my theory:

The Gods create the world and creatures that inhabit it. Glint, Kuunavang and the Forgotten (or some variation thereof) are included to maintain things. Eventually some race rises to prominence and tries to run the world their way (this may be Giganticus Lupicus or humans or Charr or etc.). Glint and company do their best to maintain balance by guiding heroes to do the right thing; killing Lich, Shiro, Abaddon, etc. Humans, who used to be in power and listened to the Gods, soon find themselves on the short end of the power struggle, and since the other species in power don't really care about the Gods, the Ancient Dragons are sent to 'reboot" the world.

[Whisper]

Ho ho nice doomsday theory ^^. Well we never know what the gods aka. Arena net has in store for os ...... Perhabs each god designed his own dragon? however doesen't this conflict with the rest of the storyline ? Seeing how the dragons have "always been there"?.

[Gmr Leon]

Assuming that the Gods actually did create Tyria, and didn't just terraform it, then the Ancient Dragons could have been included in the creation. But that's a major assumption, considering the other elements suggesting that they didn't create it.

[Divinity Coast]

Nice theory, enjoyed reading your view. This could be true, but I expect Anet to have a lot of twists left..(By the way, I'm also a huge Matrix fan ;))

[Rivenheart]

The Dragons are part of the world, the same way the Gods are/were. Dragons sleep when all is good, and awaken when things need to be cleansed. Don't forget that the Gods lived in Arah before Abaddon messed things up. I was thinking that each God has a corresponding Dragon, Balthazar=Primordus, Grenth=Zhaitan, but that's a real stretch with as little information as we have.

[Whisper]

Divinity Coast said:

Nice theory, enjoyed reading your view. This could be true, but I expect Anet to have a lot of twists left..(By the way, I'm also a huge Matrix fan ;))

Yea it's a nice universe :) makes one ponder alot.

Rivenheart said:

The Dragons are part of the world, the same way the Gods are/were. Dragons sleep when all is good, and awaken when things need to be cleansed. Don't forget that the Gods lived in Arah before Abaddon messed things up. I was thinking that each God has a corresponding Dragon, Balthazar=Primordus, Grenth=Zhaitan, but that's a real stretch with as little information as we have.

That was my idea aswell untill i got to think of how old these things were...

[Ravious]

Gmr Leon said:

Assuming that the Gods actually did create Tyria, and didn't just terraform it, then the Ancient Dragons could have been included in the creation. But that's a major assumption, considering the other elements suggesting that they didn't create it.

This.

The truth to the "Creator," whether it was gods, dragons, a Mists big bang, etc. is uncertain. It is troubling to think that no other race (except maybe the snakies) care much about the gods. In fact, Ree goes so far as to say that in GW2 because the human race is waning... the gods have less interface with Tyria. If the gods were the creators, you think that they would be worshipped by a lot more than some upstart race.

My gut theory is that the dragons are more of Tyrian essence than the gods, who may be "Mist walkers." The gods had their fun, and now the caretakers of Tyria are waking back up. And they are not happy with what has become of their world.

[Whisper]

Ravious said:

This.

The truth to the "Creator," whether it was gods, dragons, a Mists big bang, etc. is uncertain. It is troubling to think that no other race (except maybe the snakies) care much about the gods. In fact, Ree goes so far as to say that in GW2 because the human race is waning... the gods have less interface with Tyria. If the gods were the creators, you think that they would be worshipped by a lot more than some upstart race.

My gut theory is that the dragons are more of Tyrian essence than the gods, who may be "Mist walkers." The gods had their fun, and now the caretakers of Tyria are waking back up. And they are not happy with what has become of their world.

O_o nice theory... I like it ^^.... But then again what about magic? It had to come from somewhere ? The gods have each their line of magic while the dragons all seams to have "the breath of life"..?

[Ravious]

Whisper said:

O_o nice theory... I like it ^^.... But then again what about magic? It had to come from somewhere ? The gods have each their line of magic while the dragons all seams to have "the breath of life"..?

I honestly think this is going to be another take on the titan vs. god myth. Dragons being the titans are the essence of reality. Gods are more conduits of the power they represent (i.e., death, nature, etc.).

Except in this case the titans did not create the gods (as far as we know), and the gods are not bound to one realm (which I posit the elder dragons might be).

EDIT: For an unbelievably awesome take(s) on a nouveau titans/gods conflict check out the White Wolf ttrpg's Exalted and Scion.

Edited by Ravious, 23 August 2009 - 12:47 AM.

[Astralelf]

Very interesting...like this theory, adds a whole new light to the Tyrian Gods.

[Konig Des Todes]

Now that I finally get to it...

Rivenheart said:

The Gods create the world and creatures that inhabit it. Glint, Kuunavang and the Forgotten (or some variation thereof) are included to maintain things. Eventually some race rises to prominence and tries to run the world their way (this may be Giganticus Lupicus or humans or Charr or etc.). Glint and company do their best to maintain balance by guiding heroes to do the right thing; killing Lich, Shiro, Abaddon, etc. Humans, who used to be in power and listened to the Gods, soon find themselves on the short end of the power struggle, and since the other species in power don't really care about the Gods, the Ancient Dragons are sent to 'reboot" the world.

Very interesting hypothesis you have going on.

As Leon brought up, we're not sure who created the world. But it does seem that the gods do fit the role of creator of the races. And it is said that Melandru (at least) created the world.

Rivenheart said:

Don't forget that the Gods lived in Arah before Abaddon messed things up. I was thinking that each God has a corresponding Dragon, Balthazar=Primordus, Grenth=Zhaitan, but that's a real stretch with as little information as we have.

The connection between gods and dragons has been thought of before. Though Grenth seems to have two: Zhaitan and "Drakkar" (death then cold). Though it could be Dwayna=Zhaitan (life and the corruption of life).

How I view it, if there is a connection, is that the dragons are the opposite of the gods (which does fit your theory nicely) and the dragons corrupt, where the gods create. The connections would be:

God of Life/Air=Zhaitan
God of Nature/Earth="Grothmar"
God of Fire=Primordus
God of Ice="Drakkar"
God of Water= theDeep Sea Dragon
God of Illusion=???

However, there is an issue - we have 5 dragons and 6 gods. And then, Primordus doesn't fit with war (well, might, we know Destroyers use weapons, but aside from the Orrian Undead, we don't know if others do - too early to tell), "Drakkar" doesn't fit with death, and the Deep Sea Dragon doesn't fit with knowledge.

As for the gods living in Arah, this is an interesting point to bring up, due to Zhaitan's location.

Ravious said:

If the gods were the creators, you think that they would be worshipped by a lot more than some upstart race.

We don't know the full Centaur, Tengu, Dredge, Naga, etc. faiths though. We only know the faiths of Humans, Forgotten, Charr, Norn, Dwarven, and Asuran faiths. And the Charr and Asura do acknowledge the existence of the gods. The Great Dwarf we know too little about to say he/she/it wasn't one of the true gods in the past generations. And it is possible the Norn spirits are related to the true gods as well (best example being Raven, who's shrine is near Grenth statues, and who's personality fits with Grenth and who connects to the dead).

The only Naga faith hint we have is a boss who has Dwayna in it's name (and is a monk). And for Centaur, no deity is mentioned, but we see one in the Fissure of Woe/Realm of War so there may be a connection there as well. The only thing we know of the Tengu faith is that their souls go to a place called the "Sky Above the Sky." And we know nothing on Dredge faith. Grawls seem to congregate near the statue of the gods (Lyssa's and Melandru's) in Ascalon and one spot in the Southern Shiverpeaks (Temple of Grenth - not in it, but nearby), so there may be some faith there.



By the way, renamed the thread title to something more apparent for what the thread is about.

[Rivenheart]

Konig Des Todes said:

God of Life/Air=Zhaitan
God of Nature/Earth="Grothmar"
God of Fire=Primordus
God of Ice="Drakkar"
God of Water= theDeep Sea Dragon
God of Illusion=???

However, there is an issue - we have 5 dragons and 6 gods. And then, Primordus doesn't fit with war (well, might, we know Destroyers use weapons, but aside from the Orrian Undead, we don't know if others do - too early to tell), "Drakkar" doesn't fit with death, and the Deep Sea Dragon doesn't fit with knowledge.

As for the gods living in Arah, this is an interesting point to bring up, due to Zhaitan's location.

You have Gods listed for Ice and Water, which I don't think would be fully correct, as I see it Grenth would have taken up both ice and water after Abaddon's fall.

Of course this leaves us with:
Dwayna - Goddess of Life/Air=Zhaitan
Melandru - Goddess of Nature/Earth="Grothmar"
Balthazar - God of Fire=Primordus
Grenth - God of Ice/ Water="Drakkar" and(?) the Deep Sea Dragon
Lyssa - Goddess of Illusion=??
Kormir - Goddess of=??


We can narrow it down to 5 Gods is we observe the following:

The Apostate said:

"Thank you for protecting me. And for your help, I shall now fulfill my end of the bargain.

You may have wondered why I was being chased so vehemently by Abaddon's hunters, and I believe it is as simple as this: I do not believe Abaddon to be an eternal god. There were other gods before him, before he was imprisoned here. And I believe that while the power he uses cannot be destroyed, he may be supplanted, as he supplanted his predecessor.

Use this knowledge for your benefit."

This can be seen that Abaddon is a half/minor God (or something else), and that his fall may be part of the recurring cycle. This may exempt the 6th God's position from having a Dragon.


So this leaves us with one point of contention, Grenth has two apparent Dragons and Lyssa has none.

I believe the Deep Sea Dragon to be representative of Grenth and "Drakkar" to be that of Lyssa. I don't believe that because "Drakkar" is frozen in a lake that it has anything necessarily to do with Ice or Water. "Grothmar" is also somewhat in the water, and Zhaitan is in the Sea of Sorrows. Primordus seems to be the only Dragon who is not in or near any body of water.

The only thing we know about "Drakkar" is that it corrupted Svanir and his Bear Form (Jora as well, but to a lesser and different extent). The whole Norn & Spirit Form duality make my think of Lyssa. The other aspect is that Dervish Forms are in the Mysticism attribute line, and the patron Goddess of Mysticism is Lyssa.

Another little interesting thing, the Bear Spirit in EotN is listed as being a Mesmer.
http://wiki.guildwar...iki/Bear_Spirit
On the discussion page, no one seems to have an answer why its listed as such, but it is. The page was created by an admin so they might have direct knowledge.

Edited by Rivenheart, 23 August 2009 - 10:40 PM.
added bold highlights

[ArlanKels]

The reason the gods aren't interfering is because they can't directly punch things anymore. This is revealed to you in Nightfall when you attempt to plead with them to help you against Abaddon, and they say that they "once" walked alongside Humans, but no longer do. Now they simply have imparted their powers, their very capabilities into everyone. They are a part of the Humans automatically. The problem is that the Humans keep looking to the Gods for help when they need to realize, as Kormir did, that the Humans are capable of doing it already because they always have the Gods help.

You never fight alone.

[Gmr Leon]

Rivenheart said:

This can be seen that Abaddon is a half/minor God (or something else), and that his fall may be part of the recurring cycle. This may exempt the 6th God's position from having a Dragon.

All Gods are capable of being supplanted. Two brothers tried to take out Grenth, Menzies is attempting to defeat Balthazar, and Dhuum is still, as far as we know, attempting to overthrow Grenth. They would not be doing so if the Gods were incapable of being supplanted. As a matter of fact, if you invalidate Abaddon due to that, you must invalidate Grenth, as he supplanted Dhuum.

ArlanKels said:

The reason the gods aren't interfering is because they can't directly punch things anymore. This is revealed to you in Nightfall when you attempt to plead with them to help you against Abaddon, and they say that they "once" walked alongside Humans, but no longer do. Now they simply have imparted their powers, their very capabilities into everyone. They are a part of the Humans automatically. The problem is that the Humans keep looking to the Gods for help when they need to realize, as Kormir did, that the Humans are capable of doing it already because they always have the Gods help.

:zzz::(:eek::surprised::o:D

So that's how the Gods did it! It's so bloody obvious now! I had considered the possibility that the Gods simply integrated themselves into the Mists, that the Great Dwarf imbued his very Godly essence into the hammer King Jalis used to get rid of himself without being supplanted through the distribution of his power among an entire race, but the idea that the human Gods did so as well, without having to deal with imbuing their powers into something to do so, is absolute brilliance. This would easily explain the Exodus, their sudden disappearance from Arah. They had already automated the functions of their realms with their servants, Balthazar's Eternals, Grenth's Reapers, whatever Melandru, Lyssa, and Dwayna have in their realms. Likewise with the Forgotten as a whole in Tyria and the Realm of Torment, mainly the latter. Thus, in doing so, they could remove themselves from existence while having the management of their realms simply being known, without having to be enforced.

Another thought, being, that they imbued their power into the Bloodstones, thus leading to their disappearance after their creation. However, due to the vagueness of whether they created the Bloodstones before the fight with Abaddon, or after, this is uncertain.

Whatever the case, this is a very interesting thought that I had honestly, for some absurd reason, not considered. Although the absurd reason might be Balthazar's opening a gateway to the Hall of Heroes in Lion's Arch, so..

Edited by Gmr Leon, 23 August 2009 - 11:03 PM.

[Konig Des Todes]

Rivenheart said:

You have Gods listed for Ice and Water, which I don't think would be fully correct, as I see it Grenth would have taken up both ice and water after Abaddon's fall.

Nothing connects Grenth with Water except the idea of Ice though, so you cannot say he takes water alone. Also, I'm speaking in original settings.

Rivenheart said:

We can narrow it down to 5 Gods is we observe the following:

This can be seen that Abaddon is a half/minor God (or something else), and that his fall may be part of the recurring cycle. This may exempt the 6th God's position from having a Dragon.

I don't think this to be the case. If you were correct, then Grenth would be the same. Then there would be 4 gods, one of which not having a dragon still. And a demi-god having 1 or 2 dragons.

Rivenheart said:

So this leaves us with one point of contention, Grenth has two apparent Dragons and Lyssa has none.

I believe the Deep Sea Dragon to be representative of Grenth and "Drakkar" to be that of Lyssa. I don't believe that because "Drakkar" is frozen in a lake that it has anything necessarily to do with Ice or Water. "Grothmar" is also somewhat in the water, and Zhaitan is in the Sea of Sorrows. Primordus seems to be the only Dragon who is not in or near any body of water.

The only thing we know about "Drakkar" is that it corrupted Svanir and his Bear Form (Jora as well, but to a lesser and different extent). The whole Norn & Spirit Form duality make my think of Lyssa. The other aspect is that Dervish Forms are in the Mysticism attribute line, and the patron Goddess of Mysticism is Lyssa.

The issue about your thoughts on Drakkar here is that it is called the Dragon of Ice and Snow.

Edited by Konig Des Todes, 23 August 2009 - 11:16 PM.
meh misread arlankels

[Rivenheart]

I completely forgot about Dhuum. >.<

So maybe the Dragons don't relate to the Gods directly, could they relate to the 5 Bloodstones instead?

[Sha Noran]

Yes, where do the Bloodstones come in? We never heard of dragons in the shaping of things so much as we heard of Bloodstones.

Mostly you have an excellent theory, OP. I must say, however, if this is the god's own apocalypse, why do we even have a chance at fighting back? And what good will our world be if we fight and then destroy the very gods that created it, in any of their aspects?

[Karuro]

Whisper said:

But then again what about magic? It had to come from somewhere ? The gods have each their line of magic while the dragons all seams to have "the breath of life"..?

The Magic we know (I dub it Bloodstone Magic™) was given by the Gods.
Abaddon got too free with giving it away and well.. You know the rest.

[Konig Des Todes]

Rivenheart said:

I completely forgot about Dhuum. >.<

So maybe the Dragons don't relate to the Gods directly, could they relate to the 5 Bloodstones instead?

Bloodstones are linked to the four schools of magic then one to unite them.

The four schools (Preservation, Aggression, Destruction, and Denial) don't link to 5 dragons as much as they do the four core caster professions.

[Free Runner]

Your theory sounds exactly like the WEAPONS of Final Fantasy 7. Monsters that would save the world when it came into immediate danger by destroying the greatest threat to it - life.

[Shew]

As for water, I think that would be attributed to Melandru because of her descriptions.

First of all, water is usually associated with purity.

Here are parts of the descriptions:

Quote

Beneath her branches await plenty of fresh water and shelter from the elements.

Quote

Melandru’s roadside temples offer shelter, food, and water to weary travelers even in Cantha [...]

Quote

Throughout Elona, roadside temples to the goddess offer shelter and water to weary travelers.

[Rivenheart]

Sha Noran said:

Mostly you have an excellent theory, OP. I must say, however, if this is the god's own apocalypse, why do we even have a chance at fighting back? And what good will our world be if we fight and then destroy the very gods that created it, in any of their aspects?

I honestly don't think the Gods can be destroyed, even by other Gods. It seems the only way for a God to "die" is if they are supplanted by another, Kormir takes over for Abaddon, Grenth takes Dhuum's position, and Menzies is trying to supplant Balthazar. It might just be that each of these warring "Gods" are merely different aspects of the same power. Similar to the Conservation of Energy.

Scriptures of Kormir said:

Yet the power of a god cannot be destroyed

Going back to the Dragons, there is slightly more correlation between Abaddon and the Deep Sea Dragon:

Scriptures of Abaddon said:

And prayed Jadoth, "Abaddon! Lord of the Everlasting Depths, Keeper of Secrets, open mine eyes and bestow upon me the knowledge of the Abyss that I might smite mine enemies and send them to the watery depths!"

Assuming that Kormir takes Abaddon's power and status, the Deep Sea Dragon would relate to her. Assuming "Drakkar" corresponds to Grenth, this leaves Lyssa without a corresponding Dragon. I just don't think that at present time there is enough lore for a complete theory. I would love someone to prove me wrong though.

Quote

Your theory sounds exactly like the WEAPONS of Final Fantasy 7. Monsters that would save the world when it came into immediate danger by destroying the greatest threat to it - life.

I was thinking that as well, and wondering if some of the Dragons will appear much like the Ruby and Emerald weapons as side missions.



Another thing that I haven't seen much of is whether or not Guild Wars 2 will feature 5 or 6 Gods.

[ArlanKels]

In reference to the water thing:

Abaddon is the former God of Secrets. He used to be among the six Gods of Tyria, as the God of Water and Knowledge. However, he was outcast by the other five gods after distributing magic too freely and imprisoned in the Realm of Torment. He remained the god of secrets during his imprisonment, while Grenth ruled over water as the God of Ice.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Abaddon

Abaddon also is known to have defeated two gods, which doesn't include his predecessor who might or might not have been Arachnia.

[Konig Des Todes]

Shew said:

As for water, I think that would be attributed to Melandru because of her descriptions.

First of all, water is usually associated with purity.

Here are parts of the descriptions:

Though you do bring up a good point and a thought that came to me would be if the water portfolio got split between all of the gods (or just more than one). However, Melandru is often referred to with nature and aside from plants and animals, the three things you can find from nature are food, shelter, and water. In other words, she would be considered a Goddess of Individual Living Necessities (I say individual in order to prevent the concept of sex being a necessity for a group to survive).

Rivenheart said:

...this leaves Lyssa without a corresponding Dragon. I just don't think that at present time there is enough lore for a complete theory. I would love someone to prove me wrong though.

I know the Movement of the World denies this, but a thought crossed my mind and there have been things changed since the Movement, so I figured I'd bring this up.

Based off of an old thought, but what if Glint is the "Lyssa's corresponding dragon" - Glint's lair is in a pocket dimension which is rather tricky of the mind.

Rivenheart said:

Another thing that I haven't seen much of is whether or not Guild Wars 2 will feature 5 or 6 Gods.

Ree has said that humans still worship the six gods. So it will feature all 6 of those gods.

ArlanKels said:

Abaddon also is known to have defeated two gods, which doesn't include his predecessor who might or might not have been Arachnia.

Overpower not defeat nor kill.

[Rivenheart]

Konig Des Todes said:

I know the Movement of the World denies this, but a thought crossed my mind and there have been things changed since the Movement, so I figured I'd bring this up.

Based off of an old thought, but what if Glint is the "Lyssa's corresponding dragon" - Glint's lair is in a pocket dimension which is rather tricky of the mind.

That's a possibility, but then we'd have extra dragons. In Movement, Glint and Kuunavang are grouped as being similar, although the possibility exists that they're both related to Lyssa. In to this equation arises Glint's Baby, and the role it plays. It could be the second half of the Lyssian duo (it is listed as a mesmer) but then Kuunavang would be the odd one out.

[Gmr Leon]

There's also always the possibility that there is no real correlation. Alongside that, Lyssa is the Goddess associated with energy, the Lady of the Ether, if you will. She could be claimed to be within and without everything in Tyria. However, this is really only displayed in her blessings.

Edited by Gmr Leon, 24 August 2009 - 02:19 AM.

[Sha Noran]

Rivenheart said:

It might just be that each of these warring "Gods" are merely different aspects of the same power. Similar to the Conservation of Energy.

Excellent theory. You could very well be onto something there Riven.

[Whisper]

So the gods would be magic in it's purest form sort of an avatar ? Or were you reffering to something else ?

[draxynnic]

Konig Des Todes said:

Now that I finally get to it...


Very interesting hypothesis you have going on.

As Leon brought up, we're not sure who created the world. But it does seem that the gods do fit the role of creator of the races. And it is said that Melandru (at least) created the world.

The connection between gods and dragons has been thought of before. Though Grenth seems to have two: Zhaitan and "Drakkar" (death then cold). Though it could be Dwayna=Zhaitan (life and the corruption of life).

How I view it, if there is a connection, is that the dragons are the opposite of the gods (which does fit your theory nicely) and the dragons corrupt, where the gods create. The connections would be:

God of Life/Air=Zhaitan
God of Nature/Earth="Grothmar"
God of Fire=Primordus
God of Ice="Drakkar"
God of Water= theDeep Sea Dragon
God of Illusion=???

However, there is an issue - we have 5 dragons and 6 gods. And then, Primordus doesn't fit with war (well, might, we know Destroyers use weapons, but aside from the Orrian Undead, we don't know if others do - too early to tell), "Drakkar" doesn't fit with death, and the Deep Sea Dragon doesn't fit with knowledge.

As for the gods living in Arah, this is an interesting point to bring up, due to Zhaitan's location.

One thought that strikes me here...

How do we know that the structure of the pantheon now bears much relation at all to that when the Dragons were last active? We can at least suspect that Melandru and Dwayna at least were around in some form then, but their powers and portfolios may have changed in the intervening time, including, likely, cases where what was once one deity's portfolio is now shared between two or more or vice versa.

For instance, to drop one example of a theorised previous-generation deity: the Great Dwarf. He has associations with stone, forging, and to a lesser extent war and fire, now associated with Melandru and Balthazar respectively. So if the dragons are counterparts to gods from generations previous to this one, it's actually quite unlikely that they'll mesh nicely against the current pantheon.

For instance, if we hypothesise a predecessor for Lyssa that also had power over ice (ice is often associated with a form of delicate beauty and I'm pretty sure if I was more awake I could link it to illusion as well) we can resolve the lack of a dragon for illusion/beauty and the overlap of having "Drakkar" and Zhaitan both associated with Grenth's domain. This still, of course, leaves the issue of the numerical imbalance - but a) it's possible that the powers that are now distributed among six gods was then concentrated in five, and, possibly more likely, b) we only know of dragons that have arisen in Tyria - the 'missing' dragon(s) may well just be somewhere else.

Sha Noran said:

Mostly you have an excellent theory, OP. I must say, however, if this is the god's own apocalypse, why do we even have a chance at fighting back? And what good will our world be if we fight and then destroy the very gods that created it, in any of their aspects?

A test? If the races can pull together and defeat the apocalypse, the gods figure they'll deserve it?

Konig Des Todes said:

Based off of an old thought, but what if Glint is the "Lyssa's corresponding dragon" - Glint's lair is in a pocket dimension which is rather tricky of the mind.

Interesting point. Now you mention it:

1) Glint's skills are a bit Mesmer-ish. Crystal Bonds is essentially a super Air of Disenchantment with a snare. Crytal Haze is Arcane Langour on steroids.

2) While it doesn't have any skills, Glint's baby is listed as a Mesmer.

Given that Glint has Aspects of all the core professions, though, this suggests that either she does have capabilities in all professions (maybe she gets a special excemption from the effect of the Bloodstones?) or the Aspects were actually granted by the gods to serve as her defenses rather than something she does herself.

(Although, come to think on it, now that Kuunavang has been mentioned the idea of the pair having some special excemption to the Bloodstones has a lot of merit - in Glint this is expressed in her being able to use the Aspects (and possibly in insanely powerful monster skills), while in Kuunavang this is expressed in being able to grant celestial skills to all professions (and, also, possibly in insanely powerful monster skills, although we don't know what Kuunavang's combat capabilities were in non-corrupted form).)

Still, if Glint is the Lyssa Dragon, this raises questions about Lyssa's standing among the gods - we know that she's certainly not the most prominent, but is she really THAT weak comparatively? Of course, if it turns out that Glint has a twin somewhere (and again we might mention Kuunavang here, although she seems more Elementalist-y) and that they're of roughly the same strength as one of the Elder Dragons as a pair...

...or, more likely (since Glint is described as being much younger as well as weaker than the dragons), she may be an offshoot or a descendant of the Lyssa-associated dragon.

[Free Runner]

Now that i have time.

Rivenheart said:

So my theory:

The Gods create the world and creatures that inhabit it. Glint, Kuunavang and the Forgotten (or some variation thereof) are included to maintain things. Eventually some race rises to prominence and tries to run the world their way (this may be Giganticus Lupicus or humans or Charr or etc.). Glint and company do their best to maintain balance by guiding heroes to do the right thing; killing Lich, Shiro, Abaddon, etc. Humans, who used to be in power and listened to the Gods, soon find themselves on the short end of the power struggle, and since the other species in power don't really care about the Gods, the Ancient Dragons are sent to 'reboot" the world.

So if i am reading this correctly the dragons would of activated upon the humans shift in power and the other races who dont worship the gods gaining the upper hand?

However one of the dragons attempted to awaken while the balance was fine. Also the elder dragons are mostly to blame for the balance being disrupted - Primordus awoke and caused the Asura to run to the surface therefore allowing the Asura to establish themselves on the upper world and Zhaitan was responsible for the deaths of many Humans via Orrs uprising and also caused them to be pushed back and lose one of their greatest cities. The Norn were also brought down closer to Human lands thanks to the dragon of ice and snow.

So in short if they woke up to try and stop the chaos then their awakening actually started the true chaos.