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Mesmer feedback from BWE2

Suggestions Feedback Mesmer Rework

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#61 Selvyn R

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:54 PM

View Postblakdoxa, on 10 July 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

I haven't seen focus used seriously as a pvp weapon at all. It doesn't work with scepter at all and players only kept them as a swiftness booster outside their main off hands. It could work with sword...but sword is just too good with either torch or pistol to worry about using a focus.

I actually think the focus just requires more thought than anything, i know some one on this forum who's name has completely gone out of my head at the moment (it began with D, it might have been Delolith ...or Dastion(really sorry I am just terrible with names/the spelling of them)) made great use of the focus, and I have a build i can't wait to try to utilize the focus effectively.

Pistol and Torch are more straight forward weapons so it is easier to utilize them IMO. (not knocking anyone's ability here!)

Edited by Selvyn R, 10 July 2012 - 02:57 PM.


#62 Sebrent_Tehroth

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 02:54 PM

View Postblakdoxa, on 10 July 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

I haven't seen focus used seriously as a pvp weapon at all. It doesn't work with scepter at all and players only kept them as a swiftness booster outside their main off hands. It could work with sword...but sword is just too good with either torch or pistol to worry about using a focus.
The focus has two skills that both cater better to ranged is why we would like to use it with scepter.

Temporal Curtain gives you swiftness and cripples your opponent, this helps you close/open the gap between you and your opponent ... about equally useful to melee/ranged when fighting against ranged/melee.

iWarden gives you an area to stand in to be immune to projectiles and possibly gain regen/protection from traits. This caters better to ranged than it does melee as you can still attack from range while camping on the iWarden, even if your opponent is not in it. Melee can not benefit from it like this, so it is less suited for the sword.

#63 blakdoxa

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:23 PM

View PostSelvyn R, on 10 July 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

I actually think the focus just requires more thought than anything, i know some one on this forum who's name has completely gone out of my head at the moment (it began with D, it might have been Delolith ...or Dastion(really sorry I am just terrible with names/the spelling of them)) made great use of the focus, and I have a build i can't wait to try to utilize the focus effectively.

Pistol and Torch are more straight forward weapons so it is easier to utilize them IMO. (not knocking anyone's ability here!)
Pistol and Torch can easily snap in with sword. Focus might require a little more thought but can work.
That's what I'm going to figure out.

View PostSebrent_Tehroth, on 10 July 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

The focus has two skills that both cater better to ranged is why we would like to use it with scepter.

Temporal Curtain gives you swiftness and cripples your opponent, this helps you close/open the gap between you and your opponent ... about equally useful to melee/ranged when fighting against ranged/melee.

iWarden gives you an area to stand in to be immune to projectiles and possibly gain regen/protection from traits. This caters better to ranged than it does melee as you can still attack from range while camping on the iWarden, even if your opponent is not in it. Melee can not benefit from it like this, so it is less suited for the sword.
Thing about the scepter is that it's a clone factory. If you want to use any traits for your focus that requires you to go into Inspiration which focuses on phantasms.
That is very counterintuitive since focus is supposed to synergize well with the ranged scepter.

As the specter is now...it is better all by itself cause it would cripple the phantasm component of any of the off-hands. Basically you would choose your off-hand depending on which non-phantasm skill would help cover your loss the best in a variety of situations you would face in pvp.

I'll probably figure out a build for sword+focus instead of scepter+anything.

#64 Sebrent_Tehroth

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:46 PM

View Postblakdoxa, on 10 July 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

Thing about the scepter is that it's a clone factory. If you want to use any traits for your focus that requires you to go into Inspiration which focuses on phantasms.
That is very counterintuitive since focus is supposed to synergize well with the ranged scepter.
+1

Exactly what we've been saying :D

#65 EphraimGlass

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:37 PM

OP, I agree with a ton of what you're saying but there are two particular points to which I would like to make a counterpoint.

1.  Somebody else pointed out that it's effective to use shatters just as a phantasm skill is about to recharge, losing little or no tempo in the process.  One of the central arguments in my objection to the current design of the Mesmer is that the shatter mechanic caters only to a small number of builds.  I think that this explanation offers hope that the shatter mechanic is not fundamentally exclusive.

2.

View PostXrylene, on 02 July 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Let me aks you a question. You have 10k health, and the stacks of confusion on you will deal 1500-ish damage per ability you use. Do you fight, or do you try and run away and hope that the Mesmer doesn't apply more stacks or have a lot of condition duration? And as a reminder, the Mesmer is fully capable of attacking you even if you fight, meaning you will be taking that 1500 damage per ability use on top of whatever else they can throw at you. Which is the right answer? What I'm trying to say is, both are bad choices, they give the illusion of choice, which is a horrible mechanic. You either let them kill themselves, or not fight back and possibly get killed anyway.

I think that the "illusion of choice" is a fine mechanic.  My experience with other games is that whenever you offer your opponent a choice of two things that are both good for you or bad for them, you're not going to get as much out of the deal as you hope.  Yes, continuing to fight might just result in death but if it will result in holding a valuable position, buying time for allies, or killing the Mesmer, it might still be worth it.  What makes it a worthwhile and interesting choice is that there probably IS a best choice for the player to make and skillful players will select that best choice more often than poor players.  Confusion is a mechanic that could have a big payoff for the Mesmer but which, like other skills, is mitigated by the opponent's defenses - only in this case, it's not a character's trait or skill that mitigates it, but the opposing player's own skill.





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