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Elite Skills and their Usefulness?

Ranger Rampage as One Entangle Spirit of Nature

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#1 Ryden Lotus

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 04:19 AM

For the record, I'm excluding racial elites from this post and focusing on the extreme situational effectiveness of Ranger elite skills compared to other professions elite abilities (later, if I have time).

Rampage as One:

Rampage as One increases your movement ability, gives you and your pet a 20% chance to crit, and makes you immune to most character control effects. In addition, every time your pet attacks it gives you one stack of might, which increases damage to a small degree, and vice versa. Looking closer, rampage as one allows you to move faster, allowing you to close in on fleeing or new targets. This is most useful with Melee, as switching targets with a ranged weapon meens you may be able to already hit your new target. A 20% crit chance would meen more additional damage, but only with 1 in 5 hits. CC immunity is nice, but stability doesn't protect from cripple which will render your increased movement speed useless. Extra damage from might is extra damage. Overall, this skill is useful in many if not all combat situations. Extra damage meens more bodies. Alternatively, you could use this skill to move yourself from many AoE areas quickly if your endurance is low or save yourself if you're recieving some form of knock lock. This is a tier one ability and is for damage.

Entangle:

Entangle is a multi target imobilizer. For 20 seconds, or until vines are destroyed, the target cannot move. Because this skill is multi target, it's best use probably would be preparing for AOE skills. I could see this skill being useful in PVE, but only for over agro. I've yet to run into a fleeing mob. Stopping movement from multiple enemies means you have more time to escape. This skill is less useful however against single, properly engaged mobs. Snaring will lower damage from melee enemies, but if one gets too close you can still use Rampage as One which has an almost guaranteed longer duration, allows you to kite as a ranger better and has additional damage. In PvP, the main situation i could see is at a gate in World vs World. Dropping this skill on a zerg will freeze them to the gate if they're attacking, allowing for AOEs and oil to kill many of them if you're fast enough. Still, Rampage as one is a more general multi purpose skill for PvP as you can use it in almost all combat situations. Rangers have other single target snares and Rampage as One gives increased movement speed so fleeing opponents shouldn't be a problem anyways.

Spirit of Nature:

Spirit of Nature allows you to summon a spirit (that can be killed and ended abruptly like entangle) that can be used to remove conditions from allies and revive or rally them. It also applies a heal in the area. This elite has the potential to have little effect, as the spirit can be killed before it can remove conditions. Additionally, when trained, dodge rolls remove conditions as well from you and your allies. This skills is the only ranger skill that can remotely resurrect multiple allies (Search and rescue allows your pet to revive one ally, but your pet cannot do anything durring the healing.) This makes the skill powerful in certain situations. Occasionally, nature spirits will automatically activate their abilities (when traited this can be guarented on the death of the spirit). When you die, so does the spirit. That meens that this skill can be used as a second wind, which could prove to be extremely useful. This would also be extremely useful durring world versus world when two zergs hit eachother. Rallying an entire zerg against another already weekend one can be deadly. However, in regular PVE combat this skill is rather useless. If you're regularily being down from one, two or even three regular PvE mobs you're not playing the ranger optimally. You really don't need a second wind skill. Without being traited, this second wind would also be practicly impossible to accomplish. The main perk of this skill is definitively the healing. However, with out being traited you cannot be particularly mobile with it and it can die rather quickly. Other elites from other professions can't be ended nearly as quickly, or at all meaning they could prove easily more useful. An elementalist's tornado could end this elite skill, deal enough damage to counteract it's effects and then some, knock you out of the capture point and the allow it to be captured. This skill is good, but still under-powered compared to other professions' elites unless used in specific situations. This is a tier two skill and is for support.

(TL:DR) General analysis:

Ranger elite skills seem quite situationally specific. Rampage as One is an okay skill. The movement speed seems moot for a ranged Ranger and the damage from might probably won't exceed 2500 between both you and your pet. It is the most versatile skill though out of the three. Entangle just seems bad and unless traited with a tier two trait it is only useful in large group PvP situations. The spirit is only particularly good in large group PvP when untraited, catering to certain builds.

Do any of you other rangers utilize the elites in any other ways I've mentioned? From what I see, only Rampage as One is good for general use and even that is kinda meh...

Edited by Ryden Lotus, 02 July 2012 - 07:25 PM.


#2 Seetherrr

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:46 AM

First of all, 20 seconds of stability is absolutely huge.  The other buffs on rampage as one are nice additions but 20sec of stability on 120cd would almost be worth it itself as an elite.

I haven't used entangle much but I watched a video where a ranger was hitting multiple people with it, so I think it is an ae that radiates from your target.

I have no experience using the spirit elite.

#3 Skyy High

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:03 AM

Mass rally is amazing in WvW, and potentially game changing in sPvP as well. It's probably not the best choice if you're soloing in PvE, but if you're running spirits anyway and/or you're in a large group event I think it'd be far more useful than the other elites.

Entangle is a tricky one. Such a huge immobilize sounds worthy of an elite slot, but I really have to get a better feel for how fast it'll last under heavy fire to know if it's worth the slot.

#4 heatzzz

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:19 AM

Actually Entangle, when I test in PvP lobby over BWE it immobilize all target within range, not just a single target skill.

Edited by heatzzz, 02 July 2012 - 06:19 AM.


#5 Sir Sparhawk

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:02 AM

Problem with entangle is the roots health, they die in 1 aoe. I think RaO is legit, by far the best elite.

#6 Sarision

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:27 AM

I think the concept of each is well-thought of, since each govern one aspect of combat.

#7 Rune100

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 12:57 PM

My Spirit of Nature were healing for rougly 480 HPS during BWE2. 480 HPS for 60 seconds is a ton of healing, combined with regeneration from Healing Spring and/or White Moa.

Problem is the health and traits you have to spend. It is god awful without the trait that allows him to move and have double health.

IMO: Spirit of Nature should be able to move, even if you don't spend trait points.

Edited by Rune100, 02 July 2012 - 12:58 PM.


#8 Ryden Lotus

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 04:27 PM

Hmm entangle may be a really good skill then in wvw if it indeed AOE. You could use it on a gate being attacked and pool oil all over attackers.


Also, the spirit heals? That could indeed prove useful. The description is misleading.

#9 Thorgrum

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:07 PM

Quick note on Entangle: It creates the condition immobilizied. We can increase the condition length by up to 30% if we are full into marksmenship making the skill potentially last 26 seconds. Dosent negate the fact the vines can be destroyed but I vew this as a good PvE elite skill for a ranger.

I can entangle the mob for 20+ seconds and burn him from range not to mention anything my pet might add. Not my prefered choice but each one of the elites have to be adjusted up dependent on how much you trait into the marksmanship line.

#10 Seryth

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 05:56 PM

gotta watch your pet though, entagle just roots (pun intended) the mobs in place so they should skill attack anything in melee range

#11 BaconSoda

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:16 PM

View PostThorgrum, on 02 July 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Quick note on Entangle: It creates the condition immobilizied. We can increase the condition length by up to 30% if we are full into marksmenship making the skill potentially last 26 seconds. Dosent negate the fact the vines can be destroyed but I vew this as a good PvE elite skill for a ranger.

I can entangle the mob for 20+ seconds and burn him from range not to mention anything my pet might add. Not my prefered choice but each one of the elites have to be adjusted up dependent on how much you trait into the marksmanship line.

Actually the condition is reapplied every second so it's harder to remove.  You can't increase the timer as a whole.  

Still by far my favorite Elite, though, especially in WvW.  I cannot count the times it seriously helped my team by trapping unwitting enemies in AoEs.

Edited by BaconSoda, 02 July 2012 - 06:16 PM.


#12 Rune100

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:21 PM

View PostRyden Lotus, on 02 July 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Hmm entangle may be a really good skill then in wvw if it indeed AOE. You could use it on a gate being attacked and pool oil all over attackers.


Also, the spirit heals? That could indeed prove useful. The description is misleading.

What? You made that long detailed post without having tried any of the abilities during the beta weekend events? Tooltips in this game can be very misleading and I'd say, impossible to judge without having tried them ingame.

Spirit of Nature can actually heal more than the 480 I mentioned. I believe the highest I saw during BWE1 ( Not sure about 2 ) were 650 HPs. If you can keep it alive for 60 seconds, that's 39.000 healing to a single person. It can easily outheal burning, lots of stacks of bleeding etc.

I also don't think it has a cap on how many targets it can heal, plus the healing AoE is pretty large.

P.S: Spirit of Nature description actually says "summon a spirit that heals allies". Not trying to be a d**k or anything.

Edited by Rune100, 02 July 2012 - 06:25 PM.


#13 Thorgrum

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 06:31 PM

View PostBaconSoda, on 02 July 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Actually the condition is reapplied every second so it's harder to remove.  You can't increase the timer as a whole.  


Really? I might have misunderstood the tool tip then as thats all I am going by I havent used entagle myself:

"
Marksmanship is a trait line for the ranger that focuses on long range damage and the use of signets.
Per point: Posted Image Power +10 Posted Image Condition Duration +1% " Duration I took to mean length of time. So potentially +30% length of time would be plus 6 seconds. Thats not to shabby in PvE. If the condition is reapplied every second wouldnt that negate the marksmanship condition duration bonus?

#14 Ryden Lotus

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:06 PM

View PostRune100, on 02 July 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

What? You made that long detailed post without having tried any of the abilities during the beta weekend events? Tooltips in this game can be very misleading and I'd say, impossible to judge without having tried them ingame.

Spirit of Nature can actually heal more than the 480 I mentioned. I believe the highest I saw during BWE1 ( Not sure about 2 ) were 650 HPs. If you can keep it alive for 60 seconds, that's 39.000 healing to a single person. It can easily outheal burning, lots of stacks of bleeding etc.

I also don't think it has a cap on how many targets it can heal, plus the healing AoE is pretty large.

P.S: Spirit of Nature description actually says "summon a spirit that heals allies". Not trying to be a d**k or anything.


I used all the elites in the practice area of sPvP but I didn't go into full combat with them. Even so I've yet to hear from a ranger who uses Entangle as a main elite. Around 500 or so healing is good from the spirit, but without being traited how quickly does it die? It doesn't follow you around without being traited so you cant be too mobile with it like you can with Rampage against One.


EDIT: I've changed entangle seeing that it is actually multi target, and added the healing ability to Spirit of Nature. Im still looking to hear from how you guys use these elites.

Edited by Ryden Lotus, 02 July 2012 - 07:28 PM.


#15 Rune100

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:37 PM

View PostRyden Lotus, on 02 July 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

I used all the elites in the practice area of sPvP but I didn't go into full combat with them. Even so I've yet to hear from a ranger who uses Entangle as a main elite. Around 500 or so healing is good from the spirit, but without being traited how quickly does it die? It doesn't follow you around without being traited so you cant be too mobile with it like you can with Rampage against One.


EDIT: I've changed entangle seeing that it is actually multi target, and added the healing ability to Spirit of Nature. Im still looking to hear from how you guys use these elites.

It's hard to give a precise number, but during BWE1 ( Again, not 2 ) my Spirit of Nature would die relative fast if I were standing in AoE. I'd say it had about 9-12k Life without Vigorous Spirits. I've no idea what sort of damage reduction it has, but I know if someone focused my Spirit, it would die very fast.

That's why you need both Vigorous Spirits and Spirits Unbound before Spirit of Nature can be a proper elite. Even Nature's Vengeance to a certain degree.

I like the idea of traits having a small benefit on Elite skills, but Spirit of Nature is just too huge of a margin, depening on you having traits or not. It shouldn't be like that in my opinion.

Edited by Rune100, 02 July 2012 - 07:38 PM.


#16 BaconSoda

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 02:49 AM

View PostThorgrum, on 02 July 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

Really? I might have misunderstood the tool tip then as thats all I am going by I havent used entagle myself:

"
Marksmanship is a trait line for the ranger that focuses on long range damage and the use of signets.
Per point: Posted Image Power +10 Posted Image Condition Duration +1% " Duration I took to mean length of time. So potentially +30% length of time would be plus 6 seconds. Thats not to shabby in PvE. If the condition is reapplied every second wouldnt that negate the marksmanship condition duration bonus?

Yeah, that's how it works.  I dunno if you can increase the duration, though, because I remember the algorithm in Guild Wars Classic just rounded numbers if it wasn't a whole number.  I'm not sure if it's a new algorithm this time around, but if it is, then by all means, a 26 second Entangle is beast. :D

By far, I thought Entangle was much more useful in both PvE and WvW than Rampage as One.  It couldn't be used underwater, though, which was kind of disappointing.  Rampage as One was pretty okay underwater, though. :P

#17 Rolt

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:34 PM

One thing about the Spirit of Nature-elit which is pretty amazing is that Nature's Renewal has a cast time or some other kind of delay. This means that if you press it ~0,5s before dieing, it'll ress you.

With full healing gear - it's passive AoE healing is also great.



#18 Segraine

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:11 PM

Spirit of Nature looks like my type of elite. Although the cool down leaves me a bit cold. I understand why the cool down is so high for a 60s spirit considering Nature's Renewal is so powerful. It reminds me of my days of messing around with Lively was Naomei in party situations. Although that skill wasn't all the useful in the end. I am hoping the AOE of Nature's Renewal is decent: perhaps the size of the Healing Spring field.

#19 Nyth

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 04:10 PM

I think all elites have a solid place at the moment. Ive seen much worse balance on other classes.

Entangle is (as mentioned before) an AoE snare with a pretty big radius. This has almost unlimited uses, it can be used for both defense and offense. And it last quite long.
It's biggest downside is that they can be destroyed, which people will find out sooner or later which reduces their effectiveness (although that won't render them useless).

Rampage as One is overal a solid skill; again serving a ton of uses both defensively and offensively

The spirit on the other hand, will blow your mind. It's really good, probably TOO good. It stays up for a long long time, and it heals for a lot to every ally nearby. I've never seen opponents nuke it down yet, but that might be a necessary tactic for any organized group.
It is really reliant on the traits to be good though.

#20 Spif

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 09:26 PM

The spirit of nature will also heal itself and your other spirits. His health is low enough that he dies fast without the 2x health trait. But with it, he lasts pretty long.

Note that you can't get the spirits move with you and the remove condition on dodge roll traits because they're both top tier. It's very annoying.




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