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#1 Harleh

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:15 AM

Anyone with the smallest amount of knowledge in the gem trading area should be able to answer this quickly.

In the gem store you can trade money for gems and gems for money.
What I want to know is, to buy gems from the store with in-game money, does someone have to had sold them to the store first? or does the store just sell gems and buy gems separately?

If that is a poor explanation, here is a in game example:

-We log into the game on the 25th of August and I go and open up the gem trading tab.
-Let's just say I have 10 silver and 100gems = 10 silver
-Nobody has sold any gems to the trading post yet.

Can I buy gems yet? Or do I have to wait till someone actually sells them to the store.

#2 Tyr Odinson

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:33 AM

There aren't any "buy orders" for gems like in the regular trading post, so no you won't have to wait to buy gems. The game will create gems if their is a theoretical absence of them, but this is unlikely because there won't be any gold in game instantly either. In the time it takes to actually acquire any copper and open the gem window, someone will have bought gems to sell.

#3 Doki20

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:37 AM

View PostHarleh, on 03 July 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

Anyone with the smallest amount of knowledge in the gem trading area should be able to answer this quickly.

In the gem store you can trade money for gems and gems for money.
What I want to know is, to buy gems from the store with in-game money, does someone have to had sold them to the store first? or does the store just sell gems and buy gems separately?

If that is a poor explanation, here is a in game example:

-We log into the game on the 25th of August and I go and open up the gem trading tab.
-Let's just say I have 10 silver and 100gems = 10 silver
-Nobody has sold any gems to the trading post yet.

Can I buy gems yet? Or do I have to wait till someone actually sells them to the store.

The cash shop creates gems indefnitiely, thus if anybody want to buy gems for real life cash through the shop, he will have the availability 24/7.
The only part of the gem-trading-business where the supply of gems have a meaning, is when players try to buy gems via in-game gold as it's based on that how many real people actually bought gems and are willing to sell it to other players.

Edited by Doki20, 03 July 2012 - 05:37 AM.


#4 Vampireiv

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:30 AM

View PostDoki20, on 03 July 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

The cash shop creates gems indefnitiely, thus if anybody want to buy gems for real life cash through the shop, he will have the availability 24/7.
The only part of the gem-trading-business where the supply of gems have a meaning, is when players try to buy gems via in-game gold as it's based on that how many real people actually bought gems and are willing to sell it to other players.

Added to this there is a graph that shows supply and demand for how much in-game gold it will cost you so you could wait for it to go low and buy gems but yes the in-game gold to gems is on what players are doing the Real money to gems is like said above.

#5 Lordkrall

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:35 AM

You cannot buy gems for ingame gold unless someone is selling gems. And you can't convert gems to ingame gold unless someone buys your gems.

#6 Sans

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:48 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 03 July 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

You cannot buy gems for ingame gold unless someone is selling gems. And you can't convert gems to ingame gold unless someone buys your gems.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Anet has to add a small pool of coin and gems in the beginning, since direct trade to other players doesn't exist.

#7 Lordkrall

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:02 AM

View PostSans, on 03 July 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

Anet has to add a small pool of coin and gems in the beginning, since direct trade to other players doesn't exist.

People can still put up gems/gold for sale I believe, even if no one will buy them at that very instant.

#8 asbasb

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:30 AM

Basically, we don't have official confirmation if ANet will initially simulate players buying gems in order to allow people to instantly trade gold for gems, or if we have to wait for players to come up with the money themselves. It's not a big deal, but we don't know for sure how ANet will handle the situation.

#9 riche

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:39 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 03 July 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

You cannot buy gems for ingame gold unless someone is selling gems. And you can't convert gems to ingame gold unless someone buys your gems.

You can. You don't trade gems for ingame gold directly with others players on trader. Basically you buy it from ANet, but price is determined by algorithm that check supply and demand on gems. On start they will probably put some starter price for gems, and you can buy ot sell gems no matter if no one buy or sell it before you.

#10 Lordkrall

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:47 AM

View Postriche, on 03 July 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

You can. You don't trade gems for ingame gold directly with others players on trader. Basically you buy it from ANet, but price is determined by algorithm that check supply and demand on gems. On start they will probably put some starter price for gems, and you can buy ot sell gems no matter if no one buy or sell it before you.

Not really no.
I highly doubt ArenaNet would generate loads of gems for gold. That would more or less defeat the whole RM-part of the cash shop.

#11 riche

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:59 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 03 July 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

Not really no.
I highly doubt ArenaNet would generate loads of gems for gold. That would more or less defeat the whole RM-part of the cash shop.

That is way that it worked in BWE's and Stress Test, I doubt that it will change for release. There was some post on gw2 beta forum where some ANet developer describe how algorithm work too.

#12 Lordkrall

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 10:08 AM

View Postriche, on 03 July 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

That is way that it worked in BWE's and Stress Test, I doubt that it will change for release. There was some post on gw2 beta forum where some ANet developer describe how algorithm work too.

At the start, sure.
But a few months after release? Very doubtful, since that would totally destroy the economy, since everyone would have unlimited gems as long as they farmed enough.

I would say they go the same route as in GW with their rare-materials. Simply supply and demand and it was very possible for the trader to sell out.

#13 riche

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 10:18 AM

View PostLordkrall, on 03 July 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

At the start, sure.
But a few months after release? Very doubtful, since that would totally destroy the economy, since everyone would have unlimited gems as long as they farmed enough.

Like I said price is determined by algorithm that take in count supply and demand of gems. So if people farm more and buy more gems price of gems will go higher. So even if you don't buy gem directly from other player, and if happens that more players buy gems from ingame money then players that sell gems for money price of gems will go higher, if there are more players that sell gems, price will be lower. But players don't choose price alone, they can't put gems for sell for price they want or put order to buy it for some price they want.

#14 Lordkrall

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 10:31 AM

View Postriche, on 03 July 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Like I said price is determined by algorithm that take in count supply and demand of gems. So if people farm more and buy more gems price of gems will go higher. So even if you don't buy gem directly from other player, and if happens that more players buy gems from ingame money then players that sell gems for money price of gems will go higher, if there are more players that sell gems, price will be lower. But players don't choose price alone, they can't put gems for sell for price they want or put order to buy it for some price they want.

But the thing is: Unless someone sells gems there are no gems at the trader. If it were why would anyone ever pay real money for them? Supply and demand does require supply to work after all.

#15 HairyEgg

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:17 PM

TBH I think they'll use a similar model to the material merchants in GW1.  That is, there's an inexhaustible supply of both gold and gems available to purchase.  ( I could be wrong here but I don't think that a merchant ever sold out of anything in gw1?)

The price is dictated purely by players willing to buy/sell at a certain price point. And the sell price is always lower than the buy price to make sure that some wealth is removed from the economy and to prevent players making money just by going back and forth between the 2 on an up-tick of price.

A trade going one way (selling gems) has a direct consequence on the price of a trade going the other way (buying gems). If more gems are sold then buying them with gold is cheaper and vice versa. This is all the regulation the market needs.  

This system worked well for rare materials and such in GW1.

If the system were dependant on supply too; that is there's a limited number of gems or amount of gold in the system, If supply ran out on either end it would provide a MASSIVE opportunity for insane profit and cause crazy price fluctuations / inflation. I guess this could be avoided if ANet apply an upper/lower limit to prices.

Anet will have to have some kind of starting point for the trade amounts at launch to prevent early speculators from cashing in, I can't remember what they did with rare materials on the launch of GW1 however.

#16 Lordkrall

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:07 PM

The rare material traders in GW1 DID sell out now and then.

#17 HairyEgg

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:26 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 03 July 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

The rare material traders in GW1 DID sell out now and then.

Ah really? Cool, I never saw that. I guess some of the points still stand though :)

#18 FoxBat

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:48 PM

And the mat traders also hit a minimum amount of gold they would give for an item, which was merchant price. Every mat was already capable of generating a small amount of gold. This situation is different because gems don't have a vendor value.

#19 dannywolt

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:01 PM

View PostLordkrall, on 03 July 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

But the thing is: Unless someone sells gems there are no gems at the trader. If it were why would anyone ever pay real money for them? Supply and demand does require supply to work after all.

In the hypothetical situation where no players want to pay real money for gems and sell them in game, the continued buying of gems with in-game money would drive the price to extreme levels. Imagine if 100 gems cost 100 gold. Long before this point was reached, players with disposable real cash would realize the opportunity to get rich in-game and begin selling gems.

This is an extreme example. From my experience with F2P games, there are always players ready to spend real money for a small return in-game.




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