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People play a thief like a tank

thief play like one or else you will die ok?

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#1 Sithaco

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:57 AM

I am so sick of seeing people who are hating on the thief, there are two reasons why they find it under powered, weak, squishy, and many other things they can't help but complain about.

A. They have not had enough time to play and master the class
B. They are not playing the class like a thief, but expecting to be able to run into the middle of combat and just spam LDB for as long as they like.

THIS WILL NOT WORK! As a thief, you have the luxury of being able to stand back, and pick your fights, I admit, I was one of the ones complaining on the Guild Wars 2 forums, but after a quick rage break, I decided to play like a thief, and it was so much more better. If you see a warrior and a guardian coming towards you, run the other way, wait for a weak and exposed target who you can jump in, finish off, and jump out.

I personally like to provide support with my shortbow whilst constantly scanning the battlefield for a vulnerable target, once I have found one, I switch to my daggers, and finish them.

Thank you, I really had to get this off my chest.

#2 Shinimas

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 08:12 AM

So all we need to do is run away. What a great combat strategy for a capture-the-point style game!

Anyone can plink from a safe distance and then charge in to steal a kill. Thief isn't even the best in this.

Quote

If you see a warrior and a guardian coming towards you, run the other way

And that shows that you know nothing of the game. It doesn't matter what class they are, it's all about the build. Glass-cannon Warriors and Guardians die in 5 seconds unless they pop a defensive cooldown.

#3 Synyster Spirit

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 09:11 AM

I feel pretty tanky with a near-passive 33% damage reduction. Protection boon is really good.

I guess it's more like..

I'm cardboard instead of paper.

If that makes sense.

#4 Leeto

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 09:18 AM

At first there was thiefs whining about their class now theres thief super heroes saying noone just knows how to play it right. I <3 thief community of GW2, reminds me WoW vanilla rogues :lol:

#5 Sithaco

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 12:03 PM

View PostLeeto, on 05 July 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

At first there was thiefs whining about their class now theres thief super heroes saying noone just knows how to play it right. I <3 thief community of GW2, reminds me WoW vanilla rogues :lol:
Just goes to show it takes a while to get comfortable with a profession :D

View PostShinimas, on 05 July 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

So all we need to do is run away. What a great combat strategy for a capture-the-point style game!

Anyone can plink from a safe distance and then charge in to steal a kill. Thief isn't even the best in this.



And that shows that you know nothing of the game. It doesn't matter what class they are, it's all about the build. Glass-cannon Warriors and Guardians die in 5 seconds unless they pop a defensive cooldown.
Please share you build and strategy guide on how to 1v2 a warrior and guardian? ;)

#6 Newdalz

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 12:18 PM

View PostShinimas, on 05 July 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

So all we need to do is run away. What a great combat strategy for a capture-the-point style game!

Anyone can plink from a safe distance and then charge in to steal a kill. Thief isn't even the best in this.



And that shows that you know nothing of the game. It doesn't matter what class they are, it's all about the build. Glass-cannon Warriors and Guardians die in 5 seconds unless they pop a defensive cooldown.
Dude, what?! If you can win a 2 on 1 fight against a warrior and guardian, then obviously they don't know what they are doing. No class should be able to win a outnumbered fight, a warrior couldn't beat two thiefs, but if it was a warrior vs a thief, it is a pretty even match.

And running away? Running away is a BIT more effective then dying and waiting 10 seconds to respawn!

Edited by Newdalz, 05 July 2012 - 12:19 PM.


#7 metalsazz

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 12:25 PM

View PostShinimas, on 05 July 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

So all we need to do is run away. What a great combat strategy for a capture-the-point style game!

Anyone can plink from a safe distance and then charge in to steal a kill. Thief isn't even the best in this.



And that shows that you know nothing of the game. It doesn't matter what class they are, it's all about the build. Glass-cannon Warriors and Guardians die in 5 seconds unless they pop a defensive cooldown.

You don't need to run away just, don't be where the swords are swinging.

#8 Sithaco

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 12:27 PM

View PostShinimas, on 05 July 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:


Anyone can plink from a safe distance and then charge in to steal a kill. Thief isn't even the best in this.

Really? Did you REALLY just say 'steal a kill'? Have you actually played the game?! THERE IS NO KILL STEALING!

#9 cesmode

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 12:34 PM

I'll admit, I am one of those people that have had a lot of problems playing melee thief in WvWvW.

Reasons:
Squishy
Lots of AOE going off
Other Melee classes have more armor/dmg reduc

Now, if there is indeed a "correct" way to play a thief( or any class for that matter) then ANet has not delivered on their promise of giving us a game with classes where we can play the way we want.  Putting that aside, I would still enjoy the game.  If there is a correct way to play the thief, and it involves picking my battles more decisively, running out throwing down ranged dmg and finishing off via melee...then I have a few questions:

1.If I am to stay at range and beat them down only to shadowstep in and finish via melee, why melee at all?  Just finish them off with your bow or pistols.
2.Will there ever be dmg meters in the game or a way for others to see how poorly I am doing because I am forced to stay at ranged?  I'll never be able to go into melee and slice and dice people because elementalists, necros,rangers, etc will just keep raining down AOE on the melee cattle.  Thus, my dmg will never be higher than them.  I just want to be assured that noone will point and laugh at my pathetic performance just because I am melee and spent more time dying than staying alive.

#10 Sithaco

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 12:41 PM

View Postcesmode, on 05 July 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

I'll admit, I am one of those people that have had a lot of problems playing melee thief in WvWvW.

Reasons:
Squishy
Lots of AOE going off
Other Melee classes have more armor/dmg reduc

Now, if there is indeed a "correct" way to play a thief( or any class for that matter) then ANet has not delivered on their promise of giving us a game with classes where we can play the way we want.  Putting that aside, I would still enjoy the game.  If there is a correct way to play the thief, and it involves picking my battles more decisively, running out throwing down ranged dmg and finishing off via melee...then I have a few questions:

1.If I am to stay at range and beat them down only to shadowstep in and finish via melee, why melee at all?  Just finish them off with your bow or pistols.
2.Will there ever be dmg meters in the game or a way for others to see how poorly I am doing because I am forced to stay at ranged?  I'll never be able to go into melee and slice and dice people because elementalists, necros,rangers, etc will just keep raining down AOE on the melee cattle.  Thus, my dmg will never be higher than them.  I just want to be assured that noone will point and laugh at my pathetic performance just because I am melee and spent more time dying than staying alive.
The reason that I use range is because thief's (as you said) are a bit squishy due to the mass of AoE going around. Now, to answer your first question, why do I switch to my daggers and shadowstep in? Well firstly, because it is fun, and secondly, I can deal a considerable amount of melee damage, the shortbow isn't a great 1 on 1 weapon, and is why I favor it in WvW when castle defending, but in sPvP or PvE, the daggers are a alright option to kill an opponent quickly, with the backstab and all.

And your second question, I personally have no idea about that meter thingy, but i'm not worried, because I find I support my teammates enough. Even if the thief is the worst profession in the game (which it isn't) I would still play it, because on a level of fun (which games should be about) no other profession has a chance.

Edited by Sithaco, 05 July 2012 - 12:42 PM.


#11 Lumm

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 12:56 PM

View PostSithaco, on 05 July 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

Even if the thief is the worst profession in the game (which it isn't) I would still play it, because on a level of fun (which games should be about) no other profession has a chance.

So in a back handed way you are saying that the thief has balance issues but since it is fun you do not really care since fun is all you care about? ;)

Just to point out: Most threads in this forum with complaints boil down to two things - (1) I love the thief it is a fun class but... (2) I do not find roles in the meta game (always another profession that is slightly better than the thief in each role).

Seems we are in agreement then!

Edited by Lumm, 05 July 2012 - 12:57 PM.


#12 sty0pa

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:01 PM

I would agree with you, because I'm going to try the thief as a tank.

It's in Anet's basic design: Heavy armor protects a whopping (/sarcasm) 15% more than light.  That's it.

If 85% of your 'character protection' is supposed to be about dodging and avoiding damage in the first place, the best character for tanking is going to be the one with the best tools for dodging and avoiding damage.  Anyone who says a warrior (for example) should be a tank because of his 'ability to take damage' simply hasn't played a warrior.  Certainly, in addition to the 15% armor bonus, warriors can have shields, but all that does is give you an occasional bubble during which you can't contribute, so lacking any sort of aggro-control tools means that bubble doesn't help much.

#13 Sithaco

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:03 PM

View PostLumm, on 05 July 2012 - 12:56 PM, said:

So in a back handed way you are saying that the thief has balance issues but since it is fun you do not really care since fun is all you care about? ;)

Just to point out: Most threads in this forum with complaints boil down to two things - (1) I love the thief it is a fun class but... (2) I do not find roles in the meta game (always another profession that is slightly better than the thief in each role).

Seems we are in agreement then!
yeah, but the game hasn't even released yet, i'm sure once it has and they have had more time to sort everything it, it should (hopefully) come good. :)

Edited by Sithaco, 05 July 2012 - 01:04 PM.


#14 CCTim2012

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:49 PM

News flash, this game's PvP is based around capturing and defending bases for resources, aka conquest.

#15 LUDAK987654

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:50 PM

I dont think any class can survive  concentrated AOE att

In castle battles thief has  one option that other classes dont have and that is to stealth and use meele
.(i didnt play any www but there is a video of a guy using combo to stealth all the way to castle walls and back)



If i see warrior or any other class charging i can still win 1v1 depending on other persons skill and build,
problem is when u dont see them  if u have squishy glass cannon build u cant survive initial burst from some classes
Thief just need a bit of trait and dmg tweaking and it will work just fine...

Edited by LUDAK987654, 05 July 2012 - 01:53 PM.


#16 CCTim2012

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:57 PM

Also, if people want to play the Thief like a tank what the hell is wrong with that? All professions can do all roles, if I want a defensive Thief with loads of miss and dodge's I should be able to play it.

View PostLUDAK987654, on 05 July 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

I dont think any class can survive  concentrated AOE att

In castle battles thief has  one option that other classes dont have and that is to stealth and use meele
.(i didnt play any www but there is a video of a guy using combo to stealth all the way to castle walls and back)



If i see warrior or any other class charging i can still win 1v1 depending on other persons skill and build,
problem is when u dont see them  if u have squishy glass cannon build u cant survive initial burst from some classes
Thief just need a bit of trait and dmg tweaking and it will work just fine...

Perma Stealth is removed, thought it was pretty shit anyways.

#17 Space

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:59 PM

View PostSithaco, on 05 July 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

Please share you build and strategy guide on how to 1v2 a warrior and guardian? ;)

The answer is obvious! Dyed all black armour, thus making you perma invisible in the shadows.

#18 Dawbles

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 02:00 PM

http://www.guildwars...80#entry1525880

#19 Itharius

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 05:47 PM

View PostNewdalz, on 05 July 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

Dude, what?! If you can win a 2 on 1 fight against a warrior and guardian, then obviously they don't know what they are doing. No class should be able to win a outnumbered fight, a warrior couldn't beat two thiefs, but if it was a warrior vs a thief, it is a pretty even match.

And running away? Running away is a BIT more effective then dying and waiting 10 seconds to respawn!
If a thief build can 1v2 a warrior and guardian of equal skill level, that build is clearly overpowered. I don't understand how not being able to 1v2 people in a competitive environment means the class is underpowered. Triple axe warriors are obviously going to be nerfed, and they're really the only well-known build I can think of that can easily 1v2 in tournament sPvP, and that's only against other glass cannon builds.

Many times, people claim to be able to 1v2 or 1v3, when they're really just 1v1ing one enemy after the other, or they're just playing a defensive build that can SURVIVE multiple opponents for a while. Legitimate 1v2 is rare to pull off in a balanced MMO. WoW was the same way - everyone made baseless claims about being able to 1v2, but they always had the element of surprise or a huge gear advantage in PvP montages that showed off their "skills." In MOBAs, players can only 1v2 once they've been fed enough to have a large gear/level advantage.

Edited by Itharius, 05 July 2012 - 05:49 PM.


#20 Drekor

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:06 PM

View PostSithaco, on 05 July 2012 - 06:57 AM, said:

I am so sick of seeing people who are hating on the thief, there are two reasons why they find it under powered, weak, squishy, and many other things they can't help but complain about.

A. They have not had enough time to play and master the class
B. They are not playing the class like a thief, but expecting to be able to run into the middle of combat and just spam LDB for as long as they like.

THIS WILL NOT WORK! As a thief, you have the luxury of being able to stand back, and pick your fights, I admit, I was one of the ones complaining on the Guild Wars 2 forums, but after a quick rage break, I decided to play like a thief, and it was so much more better. If you see a warrior and a guardian coming towards you, run the other way, wait for a weak and exposed target who you can jump in, finish off, and jump out.

I personally like to provide support with my shortbow whilst constantly scanning the battlefield for a vulnerable target, once I have found one, I switch to my daggers, and finish them.

Thank you, I really had to get this off my chest.

Your post amuses me.

You claim the thief is not a tank while using LDB spam as an example... You realize LDB is an evasive attack yes? Trying to kill a thief spamming LDB is effectively impossible without ground targeted spells. The thief does have access to more evasion than anyone else. With our control you could actually make a pretty sound argument for thieves being the best "tank" in the game.

Use your mobility and avoid all the things.

#21 CrunkJuice2

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 11:29 PM

ldb spam is one of the things that put me off about a thief

i want a class that takes an IQ over 5 to play.not just "lets see how much i can smash my leaping death blossom key"

#22 CCTim2012

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 11:42 PM

View PostCrunkJuice2, on 05 July 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

ldb spam is one of the things that put me off about a thief

i want a class that takes an IQ over 5 to play.not just "lets see how much i can smash my leaping death blossom key"

Thief is the easiest profession to play and master, bad mechanics cause brain dead game play. Thief is the noob class of GW2, spam unload / LDB etc then auto attack like a tard.

No wep switching, initiative = shit frequance of abilities used gg.

#23 nekura

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 11:44 PM

View PostDrekor, on 05 July 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

With our control you could actually make a pretty sound argument for thieves being the best "tank" in the game.

I don't know how you can say this with a straight face. A high cost evasion skills is nothing compared to a Warrior/Guardian that has several trait lines, and the majority of their u-skills dedicated to defense.

#24 Tilcir

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 11:45 PM

View PostCCTim2012, on 05 July 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Also, if people want to play the Thief like a tank what the hell is wrong with that? All professions can do all roles, if I want a defensive Thief with loads of miss and dodge's I should be able to play it.



Perma Stealth is removed, thought it was pretty shit anyways.

Cept, you cant play as a tank... or a healer for that matter.
Play as a dps, control or support thief though

View Postnekura, on 05 July 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

I don't know how you can say this with a straight face. A high cost evasion skills is nothing compared to a Warrior/Guardian that has several trait lines, and the majority of their u-skills dedicated to defense.

Evasion is the only form for control to thieves?

#25 MinkyMoMo

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 11:48 PM

Isn't this thread mirrored, like,
http://www.guildwars...d-like-a-thief/?

#26 CCTim2012

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 11:48 PM

View PostTilcir, on 05 July 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

Cept, you cant play as a tank... or a healer for that matter.
Play as a dps, control or support thief though



Evasion is the only form for control to thieves?

Yes you do play as a tank, seriously go watch some interviews of Arenanet instead of making dumb comments. They said that tanking in GW2 is based on avoiding damage by evades and absorb effects, instead of taking damage and having a healer healing you.

#27 Shamadamun

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 11:54 PM

View PostLeeto, on 05 July 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

At first there was thiefs whining about their class now theres thief super heroes saying noone just knows how to play it right. I <3 thief community of GW2, reminds me WoW vanilla rogues :lol:

Massive blast from the past right there...

Are we going to see a new series of videos called Thief Wars 2 with a narrator showing off how broken the profession is? A man can only hope...

#28 Sithaco

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:03 AM

well that was interesting to read

http://en.gw2codex.com/build/3382/show

is that what you mean by using dodging and stuff?

#29 Drekor

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:09 AM

View Postnekura, on 05 July 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

I don't know how you can say this with a straight face. A high cost evasion skills is nothing compared to a Warrior/Guardian that has several trait lines, and the majority of their u-skills dedicated to defense.
LDB is ONE ability, and a pretty damn bad one at that.

We can dodge, which traited restores endurance allowing for more dodging. We have a heal which is also a dodge and traited can give vigor for more dodging. Nearly every weapon has an attack which is "evasive" during it's animation or an ability to prevent incoming damage a different way. We have an epic shit ton of blinds and when focused on can cause the vast majority of incoming attacks to miss. We have utility skills that dodge, we have utility skills to block projectiles. We have stuns, dazes, chills, immobs and weakness conditions. The moment you step back away from the SPAM DAMAGE HARDER mentality of traditional MMO rogues and combine all your powers you turn into captain planet... or become ridiculously survivable... one of the two.

You say warrior/guard have a majority of their utility skills as defensive?

Smoke Screen - Defensive (1/1)
Blinding Powder - Defensive (2/2)
Shadow Refuge - Defensive (3/3)
Shadowstep - Not defensive(3/4)
Assassin Signet - Not defensive (3/5)
Infiltrator's Signet - Not defensive (3/6)
Signet of Agility - Defensive (4/7)
Signet of Shadows - Defensive (5/8)
Needle Trap - Defensive (6/9)
Shadow Trap - Defensive (7/10)
Tripwire - Defensive (8/11)
Ambush - Not defensive (8/12)
Haste - Not defensive (8/13)
Roll for initiative - Defensive (9/14)
Caltrops - Defensive (10/15)
Scorpion Wire - Not defensive (10/16)
Devourer Venom - Defensive (11/17)
Ice Drake Venom - Defensive (12/18)
Skale Venom - Defensive (13/19)
Spider Venom - Not defensive (13/20)

So...  65% of our utilities have defensive uses. I think that qualifies us to be in the same category no?

View PostTilcir, on 05 July 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

Cept, you cant play as a tank... or a healer for that matter.
Play as a dps, control or support thief though
Semantics.

Edited by Drekor, 06 July 2012 - 12:11 AM.


#30 stabbystabstab

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 01:21 AM

View PostDrekor, on 06 July 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

You say warrior/guard have a majority of their utility skills as defensive?

Smoke Screen - Defensive (1/1)
Blinding Powder - Defensive (2/2)
Shadow Refuge - Defensive (3/3)
Shadowstep - Not defensive(3/4)
Assassin Signet - Not defensive (3/5)
Infiltrator's Signet - Not defensive (3/6)
Signet of Agility - Defensive (4/7)
Signet of Shadows - Defensive (5/8)
Needle Trap - Defensive (6/9)
Shadow Trap - Defensive (7/10)
Tripwire - Defensive (8/11)
Ambush - Not defensive (8/12)
Haste - Not defensive (8/13)
Roll for initiative - Defensive (9/14)
Caltrops - Defensive (10/15)
Scorpion Wire - Not defensive (10/16)
Devourer Venom - Defensive (11/17)
Ice Drake Venom - Defensive (12/18)
Skale Venom - Defensive (13/19)
Spider Venom - Not defensive (13/20)

So...  65% of our utilities have defensive uses. I think that qualifies us to be in the same category no?

Semantics.

Immobilize, chill and knockdown are defensive skills? ಠ_ಠ
I don't think Warriors have most of its U-skills 'dedicated' to defense, but passive mitigation from baseline hp and armor makes a huge difference.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: thief, play, like, one, or, else, you, will, die, ok?

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