40 replies to this topic

[Freelancer604]

Hey all, just jumped on the GW2 bandwagon recently and I was wondering if Random Arenas are making a return?

I know that the arena had a bad reputation in GW1, but even the most arrogant and anal of GW1 players cant deny the fact that it was a ton of fun to slap noobs around in RA once in a while.

[Sans]

It might actually work better in GW2, since 90% of people wont resign because there wasn't a monk.

Every match up has the potential to be competitive.

Edited by Sans, 08 July 2012 - 10:24 PM.

[Freelancer604]

Yeah that was my first thought when they announced that there wont be a dedicated heal class.. or any of the traditional trinity roles.

really want RA to be in.. because.. as cool as the flag capture maps are.. sometimes you just wanna kill ppl.. you know what im saying?

[UssjTrunks]

Probably not. Anet is pretty determined to turn this into an esport by focusing on just a single game mode.

[Aodan]

Arena although can be fun for a few casual bought is still a horrible condensed TDM.

[Rhydian]

UssjTrunks, on 08 July 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Probably not. Anet is pretty determined to turn this into an esport by focusing on just a single game mode.

I don't know or believe that is true. They were very curious on the Beta forums over which pvp games people would like to see.  I would like to see a more traditional arena set up with Arena mini games, battle recreations, arean halls, all that jazz, basically the Arena from Oblivion with more stuff to do.

[Flaming_Foxx]

Excuse me if this is a ridiculous comment or anything but...
Isn't sPvP extremely similar to the Random Arena? You hit join, are randomly paired with a few other players against a few other players.
I mean, yes it's a little different since it runs with a points system and introduces siege elements etc, but its still fundamentally similar?
In any case, I don't see Random Arenas coming into GW2 in exactly the same way because Anet have set themselves a very clear model for PvP.

Edited by Flaming_Foxx, 08 July 2012 - 11:03 PM.

[Freelancer604]

Aodan, on 08 July 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

Arena although can be fun for a few casual bought is still a horrible condensed TDM.

Not really.. I put hundreds of hours in each type of pvp in GW1 from its infancy to its end, cycling through them as I got bored. And from experience I can say that at the end of the day, arena was just the most "fun." Not team arena even, just random arena. The unpredictability of it, and the lack of neccessary conformity to some gimmic build made it just plain, pure, fun.

Edited by Freelancer604, 08 July 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[Sans]

Flaming_Foxx, on 08 July 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

Excuse me if this is a ridiculous comment or anything but...
Isn't sPvP extremely similar to the Random Arena? You hit join, are randomly paired with a few other players against a few other players.
I mean, yes it's a little different since it runs with a points system and introduces siege elements etc, but its still fundamentally similar?
In any case, I don't see Random Arenas coming into GW2 in exactly the same way because Anet have set themselves a very clear model for PvP.

Isn't sPvP extremely similar to Domination on Call of Duty? You hit join, are randomly paired with a few other players against a few other players.....



I think Random Arena's might actually help more of the PvE based players get into sPvP, fast games, easy objective.
It could get some players to learn the PvP mechanics, and the teams are a little more balanced that WvW.

Edited by Sans, 08 July 2012 - 11:37 PM.

[Rhydian]

Sans, on 08 July 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

I think Random Arena's might actually help more of the PvE based players get into sPvP, fast games, easy objective, and a little more balanced that WvW.

I wish it were that simple, PVE based players generally hate pvp to the point of avoiding it without question. Even the PVEers that did WOW battlegrounds just went AFK to get the free honor and refused to participate.

[Flaming_Foxx]

Freelancer604, on 08 July 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

Not really.. I put hundreds of hours in each type of pvp in GW1 from its inancy to its end, cycling through them as I got bored. And from experience I can say that at the end of the day, arena was just the most "fun." Not team arean even, just random arena. The unpredictability of it, and the lack of neccessary conformity to some gimmic build made it just plain, pure, fun.

I'm guessing you were playing as a warrior?
I personally love the competitive missions (Jade Quarry and Fort Aspenwood) since I felt like they were the most engaging. Typical Arena PvP was never really very fun for me as a caster because as soon as a warrior, dervish or assassin sets their sites on you you're kind of doomed, there is too much reliance on people 'doing their job' and conforming to a role because if you don't you're not going to win.

Sans, on 08 July 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

Isn't sPvP extremely similar to Domination on Call of Duty? You hit join, are randomly paired with a few other players against a few other players.....

I think Random Arena's might actually help more of the PvE based players get into sPvP, fast games, easy objective.
It could get some players to learn the PvP mechanics, and the teams are a little more balanced that WvW.

I have no idea, I've never played CoD. And what you have just said is also identical to Random Arenas in GW1, you hit join and are randomly paired with a few other players against a few other players..
sPvP fits thats really well, the games are fast and the objectives are easy, all you're doing is killing other players and if you feel like it capturing nodes. They don't last awfully long and they are a lot simpler to grasp than WvW.

[Sans]

Flaming_Foxx, on 08 July 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

I have no idea, I've never played CoD. And what you have just said is also identical to Random Arenas in GW1, you hit join and are randomly paired with a few other players against a few other players..
sPvP fits thats really well, the games are fast and the objectives are easy, all you're doing is killing other players and if you feel like it capturing nodes. They don't last awfully long and they are a lot simpler to grasp than WvW.

you ignored the "easy objective" part (Singular)
Many people were ignoring capturing points, killing Svanir/Chieftain, and using the trebuchet.
They were just trying to kill people, that's what many people enjoy.

[The Eggman]

Sans, on 08 July 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

you ignored the "easy objective" part (Singular)
Many people were ignoring capturing points, killing Svanir/Chieftain, and using the trebuchet.
They were just trying to kill people, that's what many people enjoy.

And then those same people will then complain about "balance" issues with classes due to things in the RA. That is the main issue. We already have that happening in the pub sPvP of 8v8 when the game is totally not balanced around 8v8. It is for that reason alone I am glad Anet did not release multiple modes for initial release. It'll still be a nightmare when they eventually do for the reason I gave above.... most people don't care to realize the game is balanced around a certain game mode/team size. If only we lived in a more ideal world.

[Freelancer604]

Flaming_Foxx, on 08 July 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

I'm guessing you were playing as a warrior?

I played every class.. way more than was good for me.. got to Gladiator Rank7. 80% of my time in RA was spent as a monk, mesmer, or ele. And melee did not destroy casters, it was the other way around. That is, unless you get caught off guard or bring a purely offensive build with no interrupts or blinds. Melee, especially hammer warriors, relied pretty much 100% on either a hammer combo, or attack speed boost. The typical combo warrior can be rendered useless by a simple interrupt, and the frenzy and flail guys are even eaiser, all you do is hit them back or run away.

In any case, that wont be a problem in GW2 since every class is made to have a balanced skill set. RA would be a blast as everyone would stand equal chance to win.The greatest variable in deciding who wins, is "who played better?"

Edited by Freelancer604, 09 July 2012 - 02:44 AM.

[Sarosna]

Possibly not Random Arenas but definitely Team Arenas. My one biggest regret about GW1 was never having tried Team Arenas. I still play WoW but solely because of the arenas. I get to have fun with 2 friends and get a bit of epeen as a bonus (well, at least on my hilariously bad server).

[RabidusIncendia]

Pretty sure there won't be random arenas in the first year.  Arenanet said the main reason for the current sPvP formats was because in GW1 many people would just stay in random arenas and never advance to other formats because RA didn't teach them anything about it.

I don't quite agree, I think people who stayed in RA for a long time did so because they didn't want to group with 7 strangers or deal with guild drama.  These people will also stay in the current sPvP and not move to tPvP.  But this is their stance.

[UssjTrunks]

Sans, on 08 July 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

Isn't sPvP extremely similar to Domination on Call of Duty? You hit join, are randomly paired with a few other players against a few other players.....



I think Random Arena's might actually help more of the PvE based players get into sPvP, fast games, easy objective.
It could get some players to learn the PvP mechanics, and the teams are a little more balanced that WvW.

The current point system is a lot more forgiving and welcoming than arenas as players can still have a successful round without killing anyone by just scoring capture points. Most RA modes were deathmatch too, which is usually not very inviting for new players as their death often entails a team loss. Dying in GW2 PUGs is pretty insignificant as it doesn't have a huge impact on your team's success, and you respawn within a few seconds.

Edited by UssjTrunks, 10 July 2012 - 08:32 PM.

[Sarosna]

RabidusIncendia, on 10 July 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

I don't quite agree, I think people who stayed in RA for a long time did so because they didn't want to group with 7 strangers or deal with guild drama.  These people will also stay in the current sPvP and not move to tPvP.  But this is their stance.

Agreed. Having spent 5 years doing WoW BGs, I'm somewhat tired of random set ups. And if you really want to get into Tournaments, you need dedication. I'm not sure if that's the kind of dedication I'm looking for. One irk is voice chat. I am not comfortable with talking to people I can't see. Add several people, dialects and different languages into the mix and I find it very hard to enjoy PvP. I also HATE having to play with a damn schedule.

All this adds to me preferring Arena type of games. I get to play with friends who I know, who speak the same language and who will accept feedback and don't tear their boxers into shreds after a loss or if I'm tied to IRL stuff for the weekend. I guess it might just take some time to get used to Conquest but it doesn't really remove the issues that comes through having several people working together on something. The more cooks, the more thick the soup gets. Usually.

[Timid]

Sans, on 08 July 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

I think Random Arena's might actually help more of the PvE based players get into sPvP, fast games, easy objective.
It could get some players to learn the PvP mechanics, and the teams are a little more balanced that WvW.

I'm not sure that this is entirely true. Random Arenas seem like a natural entry point for those new to PvP but there are a couple reasons it can be intimidating for new players.

1. Learning PvP is best with a team who is willing to teach you, but RA is a mix of virgins and veterans and that's a unstable mixture. Veterans will want to win as quickly and easily as possible, and will likely see the virgins as an impediment, given the important role every member of a small team is expected to fulfill.

2. Many people shy away from PvP since it tends to be rougher and attracts more chest-beating. Being surrounded by strangers who may have questionable social skills is enough to keep newer players away. Whether or not it's a fair assessment of the community, all it takes is the anxiety about mistreatment to make people think twice. Small format RAs tend to be the Wild West of PvP.

Something like WvWvW is more likely to get someone into PvP since the penalty for individual failure is lower and players have a degree of anonymity. They are less likely to be blamed for a loss, or called out specifically for a perceived error. They can also learn from other players without getting in their way.

Edited by Timid, 10 July 2012 - 09:48 PM.

[Dirame]

Freelancer604, on 08 July 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

Not really.. I put hundreds of hours in each type of pvp in GW1 from its infancy to its end, cycling through them as I got bored. And from experience I can say that at the end of the day, arena was just the most "fun." Not team arena even, just random arena. The unpredictability of it, and the lack of neccessary conformity to some gimmic build made it just plain, pure, fun.

What you're looking for is in GW2 and it's called Hot-join like flaming_foxx said earlier. If you want to just punch people in the face, hot-join is the place to do it.

[Slashiroth]

It'll probably be there but not a priority in terms of pvp

[Arngrim Einheri]

I don't know why they thought that point capping was more adequate for becoming an e-sport rather than team deathmatch which is always easier to understand what is happening and what the objective is. I mean is easier for the spectator to understand what's happening on a TDM game than on a point cap game.

And if they think TDM is too simplistic, well, I also want a simplistic pvp mode for GW2. I don't want to be "competitive all the time". I want something in the middle between sPvP and WvWvW.

Edited by Arngrim Einheri, 10 July 2012 - 10:34 PM.

[Shamadamun]

UssjTrunks, on 08 July 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

Probably not. Anet is pretty determined to turn this into an esport by focusing on just a single game mode.

That won't bode well with the PvP community I'm sure... there has to be some variety.

[UssjTrunks]

Arngrim Einheri, on 10 July 2012 - 10:33 PM, said:

I don't know why they thought that point capping was more adequate for becoming an e-sport rather than team deathmatch which is always easier to understand what is happening and what the objective is. I mean is easier for the spectator to understand what's happening on a TDM game than on a point cap game.

And if they think TDM is too simplistic, well, I also want a simplistic pvp mode for GW2. I don't want to be "competitive all the time". I want something in the middle between sPvP and WvWvW.

Team deathmatch is very boring to spectate. Have you ever tried watching a GW1 PvP match? It puts you to sleep. The stuff I've seen so far here, just from the betas, has been a lot more exciting.

Edited by UssjTrunks, 10 July 2012 - 11:07 PM.

[Psikerlord]

I wouldn't mind a random arena in addition to the current PvP capture the points scenario (which I prefer - they just have more depth). Attacking others is part of the current PvP anyway, it just isn't (necessarily) the primary goal. I think for straight up random arena death matches, similar to GW1, I would want to see lots of random (small size) maps to help keep it interesting.

[RabidusIncendia]

Hmm.. honestly now that I think about it a random arena wouldn't even work the way the game is currently designed. Matches would never exceed more than 20-25 seconds in GW2 because they wanted to make point capture lead to bloody battles, so I don't see how it would be very fulfilling.

[Arngrim Einheri]

UssjTrunks, on 10 July 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

Team deathmatch is very boring to spectate. Have you ever tried watching a GW1 PvP match? It puts you to sleep. The stuff I've seen so far here, just from the betas, has been a lot more exciting.

I like Team Deathmatch

[leongrado]

It's not just RA. They just need to add more game modes in general. Maybe a sPvP mode that didn't have respawns?

[Andicus]

Freelancer604, on 08 July 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

I know that the arena had a bad reputation in GW1, but even the most arrogant and anal of GW1 players cant deny the fact that it was a ton of fun to slap noobs around in RA once in a while.

I can and I will
A game type that is fundamentally a game of rock paper scissors just with even worse odds is nothing but an exercise in frustration.
GW1 was designed around a 8v8 team format where builds would synergise and classes lacking in one department would be helped by other classes that excel in it.

Performing an appendectomy on oneself with a spoon would be more fun than playing RA...

[Freelancer604]

Andicus, on 13 July 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Performing an appendectomy on oneself with a spoon would be more fun than playing RA...

One could replace "RA" in your sentence there and apply it to anything they suck at