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#1651 Shadok

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 03:36 PM

I intentionally chose a field that I knew would make finding work easy and profitable. Computer engineering is a mix between software and electrical engineering, meaning I could find work in either field without much issue. Honestly, the amount of money that most doctors make is a bit surprising.. I mean, I could (in theory) find a starting position with a defense contractor after 4 years of school and make more than half of what an experienced doctor makes after 12+ years of school and a few years in the field. Of course, the amount of flexibility I have drastically changes what I can expect as well. I could do anything from making apps for phones to designing flight control systems for the military to writing up circuit schematics for some hardware company or designing micro-controllers. The pay disparity is rather large, but it doesn't exactly correlate with the difficulty of the work so much as with the use of the product.

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#1652 I pwnd U

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 11:56 PM

One of the reasons I choose science was because of job opportunities. I mean besides the fact that I love science. Sometimes you have to choose something that will get you a job when you get your degree. ANd I would love to be able to make the kind of money doctors do. But that will never happen sadly...

#1653 Shadok

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 02:29 AM

I think people just refuse to be realistic sometimes. Don't go for something you won't enjoy at all, but be aware of the fact that you probably won't enjoy any starting level position. Choose a field with opportunity and diversity. In theory I'll have a crazy amount of job options, but I won't necessarily have all of those options fresh out of school. I have a bunch of friends who chose game design, and I considered going down that road until I actually sat back and thought about it. Working in the gaming industry would be cool, but finding work would be incredibly difficult. I could get a job in the industry with my degree (on top of the countless other options), and I'll probably look more desirable for quite a few of those positions than someone with a degree in game design. There's no sense in aiming low.

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#1654 Kattar

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 03:10 AM

Not to mention most jobs in "gaming" are unpaid or underpaid. Companies like to take advantage of the fact that people love gaming and leverage that into free work.

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#1655 Shadok

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 03:13 AM

Yep, and the companies that do pay well are incredibly difficult to get into. Some guy with a BA in game design vs someone with 'engineer' anywhere in their title honestly didn't sound like a fair fight to me, which is 1 of many things that pushed me in the direction I chose. Honestly, I'm really into what I've learned so far and the gaming industry looks less and less appealing the more I learn.

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#1656 Stargate

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 12:36 PM

View PostShadok, on 07 October 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

Honestly, the amount of money that most doctors make is a bit surprising..
Well I do not know exactly how it is in rest of Europe or USA. That said in Finland my country:
A. It is very difficult to get accepted as to study for doctor.
B. Even if you get in unless you do studies well you can be kicked out and do not become a doctor.
C. It takes about 6-7 years of study at least to become doctor in my country.

Finally a doctor is often needed to do more work and 24/7.

Edited by Stargate, 09 October 2014 - 12:41 PM.


#1657 Shadok

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 07:51 PM

I was saying that it's surprising how little they make for how much they spend on school, not how much they make. For example, I know that the neurologists at the hospital I work at currently range from about $100,000 to $300,000 a year. That really isn't all that much, you could get your masters in one of several fields and make as much or more with far less tuition and schooling.

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#1658 cosyfiep

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 10:16 PM

View PostI pwnd U, on 03 October 2014 - 02:00 AM, said:

Freaking art majors... Oh you're an art major? Please tell me about all the things you can do with that. >.>


Actually I did major in art with  minors in english, swedish, art history (and a 2nd major of religion, what can I say I got bored so I took LOTS of classes).....
I can do quite a lot with my art major, I made my diploma into a painting :D I started in grad school---paid for by the school, but after the first year I left (had a major disagreement with my advisor) . Hubby also went to grad school with 1/2 of it paid for (and we deferred his college payments for 2 years but had to start paying it back when he stopped taking classes)....I am not sure how kids pay for schools now, we had a rough time with his school loans and he only had 2 1/2 years of them (he worked before going to college to pay for his first year and had scholarships to cover the rest, but after that he had to take loans).

What my college degree got for me was a chance to get my foot in the door of plenty of companies who would not hire kids who didnt have one---at least that was how it was decades ago when I graduated, now everyone has a degree---

as for my poly sci friends ---2 of them got their degrees so they could become lawyers (which they both did), another is working for a water district in Iowa as a bureaucrat  (with nice benefits), and the rest of my friends were comp science majors ( can you say geek patrol?) most of whom have nice, good paying jobs now as well.

#1659 BuddhaKeks

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 10:53 PM

Well when I mentioned political science as an useless degree, I looked at it from a german perspective. Over here you don't need any other degree to study law, you just go right in. There are also no tution fees for any kind of degree, so judging by those facts getting one degree in order to get another is not really necessary. Meaning political science is usually not a gateway degree, it's the thing people get because they want to work with political science in the future. And as that it's a pretty useless degree.
Like media theory. I know so many people doing that and nobody really knows what it's good for, but they all want jobs in the media; e.g. journalism, but I'd say if you want to become a journalist study journalism...

Edited by BuddhaKeks, 09 October 2014 - 10:58 PM.


#1660 I pwnd U

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 11:11 AM

I hear Germany is offering free college for people now. Good on you guys. Wish the US would do something similar instead of continue to pillage us for our money leaving us in crippling debt for years and years...

#1661 BuddhaKeks

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 03:37 PM

Actually college has always been free, but about 10 years ago we adopted the international system of Bachelor and Master, which I think was one of the greatest mistakes ever done in education policy. My older brother had the fortune of still getting in on the old system, called Magister. This degree takes about as long to get as Bachelor and Master together, if not longer, but you have complete freedom of choice on what you want to do and what not. The only mandatory thing for him was learning ancient Greek, but he is studiying archeology so this doesn't come as a surprise.
With the BA/MA system you are always on a timetable and more than that they also introduced tution fees. Those were 500€ per term which is admittedly absurdly cheap compared to NA, but it still caused a lot of protest by both students and university personal. You may now think, why wouldn't the universities want money? Well it's because before they got a budget from the federal states they were in, but with the fees the states cut the budgets down a lot, meaning especially smaller colleges had a lot less money than before. In 2010 I think they started abolishing the fees in the first few states, now the last has gotten rid of them.
Now there is also a lot of protest against the BA/MA system and studies show that more people quit their education now before getting a degree (due to stress), than with the old system. This of course is in the end more expensive for the states than people studing 2-3 years longer, since those people atleast get a valuable degree in the end. Maybe with a bit of luck they get back to old system. Not that I would benefit from that anymore, but I would wish future generations can get the true german college experience back; freedom of thought and research instead of timetables and grades.

Sorry for the rambling, I just think education policies are extremely important for a societies well being and seeing how screwed up it is in many countries makes me insane.

#1662 Dawn Quickblade

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 09:46 PM

Meanwhile my school continues to up tuition fees. It's all this stupid show, they hold "Public Hearing" to hear the concerns of students, which usually go along the lines of "Hey I have no where to live and tuition is too much." to which they'll reply "Okay we hear you but we're going to raise tuition anyways"

International students have it worse off, they're facing a 10% increase in tuition next year which is insane.

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#1663 Stargate

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 11:03 AM

View PostShadok, on 09 October 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

I was saying that it's surprising how little they make for how much they spend on school, not how much they make. For example, I know that the neurologists at the hospital I work at currently range from about $100,000 to $300,000 a year. That really isn't all that much, you could get your masters in one of several fields and make as much or more with far less tuition and schooling.
Argh... I hate when people talk about money/year. In Europe we usually talk about money/month and not about money/year what they get.

Since in Europe we also get much extra money for holiday... I would say year money is at least 12,5*month money.

Currently also 1 USA dollar is about 0,79 euro.
100 000 -300 000$=
(100 000 /12.5)*0,79=8000$*0.79= 6320 euro/month. According to you this is very little...
300 000$ is IF I am correct about how I count 3*6320 euro/month= 18960 euro/month which sound like some private clinic with huge amount of overtime and 24/7 work.

Finally you did say that you could get some defence contractor work and make more then half of those doctors...
Half is maybe 200 000$... which is 2*6320/month = 12640 euro/month. Oh my god you say 200 000$ or 12640 euro/month gross(not net income) is little?


Right Finland is slightly more capitalist then Sweden in laws. However USA is  much more capitalist then Finland. I though I was doing good when I rent 3 apartments(in the capitol area of Finland) and get normal IT work money, but hell no I do not make so much money as 200 000$/year.

All income will not do them so good if they spend money on lots of things and forget to invest. I can for example sell 1 apartment and then live like a "rich" man for many years.
Seriously most normal(not specialist neurology) doctors what you talk about make less money then 200 000$/year and I make also less money then 200 000$/year even if I count all rental income.

Edited by Stargate, 16 October 2014 - 12:03 PM.


#1664 I pwnd U

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 11:34 PM

View PostBuddhaKeks, on 10 October 2014 - 03:37 PM, said:

Sorry for the rambling, I just think education policies are extremely important for a societies well being and seeing how screwed up it is in many countries makes me insane.

Education policies are extremely important. Which is why here in America, our great country has politicians, not educators, make these super important decisions. Because no one knows what is better for education and the youth of America than our politicians here. They always make the best decisions with the best ideas and get the best outcomes. Those educators? They don't need a say, what do they know about education? Nothing, that's what. They are only in the classroom 9 months of the year with these students, seeing them everyday, learning how best to teach them so that they can someday become what they dream to be. Lets keep letting politicians make the educational decisions. It is after all the best way to go.

#1665 Kattar

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 11:11 PM

Getting a promotion at work soon, so that's cool.

Doesn't seem like there's a lot of upward momentum in the teaching field. Any thoughts on that pwnd?

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#1666 I pwnd U

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 02:28 AM

What's a promotion? As a teacher I don't know what that is...

The only upward momentum is to go back and get your administrative degree. But if you don't want to be in administration you are kinda stuck. You can go get masters and move up in the pay scale, but generally that maxes out at less than what admin makes. So ya, not a whole lot of up unless you head to administration...

#1667 Stargate

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 12:10 PM

View PostI pwnd U, on 16 October 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

What's a promotion? As a teacher I don't know what that is...
I am sure he means this:
http://en.wikipedia....Promotion_(rank)
A promotion means clear advancement for example a team worker could become a team leader. Clear advancement does not
need to be any change in the work it could also be a separate salay increase which is very clear.

For example in my current work which I started this autumn they have said that I will get a clear promotion in salary(this means 150-250 gross salary/month more in my case) if I pass a demanding Microsoft Certificate. It is not paradise because all studying must be done on free time and these Microsoft tests are not some green safety card test which even an idiot could easily qualify! So far I have been lazy regarding studies, but I might do that test during winter...

Edited by Stargate, 16 October 2014 - 12:13 PM.


#1668 Shadok

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 04:06 PM

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#1669 I pwnd U

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 02:23 AM

Oh for f...... sake man... I was being facetious!

#1670 Kattar

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 02:26 AM

Humor usually doesn't translate. Idiomatic expressions are my favorite, especially when a native speaker is trying to explain them.

Now we can all wait for the comment where he says he was being sarcastic, not that he didn't understand.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

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#1671 BuddhaKeks

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 10:19 AM

Probably with the corresponding wikipedia link to 'Sarcasm' ;)

#1672 I pwnd U

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 11:05 AM

Oh my gosh I looooooove wikipedia! CITE IT FOR EVERYTHING STUDENTS!!! >.> Okay, but seriously, wikipedia is a bane... Tell them not to use it and to use the links at the bottom, first citation, wikipedia... Sigh...

#1673 Shadok

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 03:32 PM

Wikipedia is awesome if you're smart enough to use the citations at the bottom to get your info. I think it's just one of those things that separates the smart from the... not smart.

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#1674 I pwnd U

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 11:31 PM

My students are not smart. They don't follow instructions when it comes to that. My favorite is when they tell me I never told them that and then 5 other students quip in that I did. Dummies...

#1675 Kattar

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 11:50 PM

View PostShadok, on 18 October 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

Wikipedia is awesome if you're smart enough to use the citations at the bottom to get your info. I think it's just one of those things that separates the smart from the... not smart.
I even told a teacher I did this once and she didn't care. I think she respected it enough to let it slide. Or the rest of the people in the class were so stupid it didn't matter. Just another reason why required classes not related to your major are a waste of time.

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#1676 Shadok

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 02:12 AM

View PostKattar, on 18 October 2014 - 11:50 PM, said:

I even told a teacher I did this once and she didn't care. I think she respected it enough to let it slide. Or the rest of the people in the class were so stupid it didn't matter. Just another reason why required classes not related to your major are a waste of time.

"Welcome to College Composition everyone! Let's go around and say our names and majors!"  "____, General Studies"  "____, Sports Management"  "____, General Studies"  "____, Psychology"  "Kyle, Computer Engineering... Why the ♥♥♥♥ did I have to pay $900 for this course, again?".

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#1677 I pwnd U

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 03:39 AM

Some ones are pointless, others, like English, actually make sense to take. But yes, there are plenty that are required that are useless...

#1678 Feathermoore

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Posted Yesterday, 12:59 PM

Sure, having an English class is great and all, but the mere existence of English 101 is mind blowing. I had to take an English course, but the course itself had to be related to my major. So I took Technical Writing to buff up my engineering report skills. Now I help marketing with the explanations of technical subjects in print media. Profit.

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#1679 Shadok

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Posted Yesterday, 03:19 PM

I had to take an Engineering and Science Communications course, but the English was just plain old English. And I had already taken honors College Comp in highschool.

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#1680 I pwnd U

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Posted Today, 01:54 AM

Oh man, technical writing... I took that as a Biology Secondary Ed major. I was like, technical writing, lab reports! Perfect! Plus my wife (girlfriend then) was taking the same course as me. I thought that was perfect. Turns out it was me and 15 engineers... Apparently my version of technical writing was not the same as the teachers. So that was a fun adjustment period. Luckily my wife was awesome and helped me get my technical writing to be good enough to get an A in the class. She proofread like all of my things and then helped me change it to be the engineering technical writing style...




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