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[SB Build] I'm gonna make you BLEED!

shortbow condition bleed build

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#1 Sycthrex

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 09:27 PM

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Hey guys, this is my partly tested Condition Build i am using during BWE3 and found it to be very useful in 1v1 and 2v1 situations.

Please remember that this build is aimed more for damage rather than survivability and if focus you may become a liabilty unless your team can help you in teamfights, but that's what organization is all about right?



Right let's get started on the build.


Weapon Sets

Main Weapon Set - Short Bow
This weapon is your Bread and Butter for this build, it is especially helpful for those opening hard stuns with Concussion Shot followed by the multiple bleeds/cripples, without this weapon this build would be pretty useless, unless used with another condition based weapon set.

Cross Fire -  This skills allows us to put a 3 seconds bleed on our target if hit from behind or the side, this goes well with the whole reason we use the Shortbow, for hard stuns and bleeds, this should be used before or after Concussion Shot depending on the enemies position. Mixing this with Quickening Zephyr allows us to put a huge amount of bleeds on to the target within seconds.


Poison Volley - This skill allows us to fire 5 poisioned arrows which weakens the enemy, this should be used up close the the duration is increased.

Quick Shot - This skill gives our pet a little speed boost which should be used after switching from the Longbow and applying Hunters Shot.

Crippling Shot - As it states, a nice cripple skill and the next 3 attacks from our pet adds bleeding, more DoTs for us :)

Concussion Shot - Here is our hard stun for this weapon set which allows us to stun for 1 second if hit from behind or the side, this allows us time to apply everything we need or alternativly giving us the chance to escape or prevent theirs.




Second Weapon Set - Longbow (will be changed to Axe/Horn soon w/ explanations)

I chose this weapon because it defines (in my eyes) a Ranger as a whole, raining hell down on the enemy from afar suits my playstyle completely so having the Longbow as my Second Weapon Set just seemed right for me but it also allows us to have some AoE with Barrage and some quick bleed appliance when used with Sharpening Stone/Rapid Fire.

Weapon Skills

Long Range Shot - This is our 'Auto Attack' for this weapon and as it states in the tooltip, the further you are away from the target the more damage it does, an excellent little feature to the skill if you ask me, rewarding the player for kiting and staying as far away as possible, much like a Ranger should do.

Rapid Fire - Here we have our 'Ez Mode' skill as it requires the player to only know when to use the skill and then it deals out large amounts of damage when used correctly(We use the speed to apply bleeds, not so much damage). As the tooltip states, this fires mutiple arrows at the enemy.

Hunters Shot - Fires an arrow to make your for vulnerable and gives your pet swiftness, pretty simple and easy to understand ability, not the best in my eyes but we have to have one average skill right?

Point Blank Shot - I cannot explain how useful this skill can be, this allows you to knock someone back and the closer they are to you, the further back they will be knocked, this can be used to interrupt high damaging skills and also push that pesky melee character away from you.

Barrage - This is our AoE bread and butter and can be used in conjuntion with Point Blank Shot, a little tip is to set your 'ground target' skills to activate wherever your mouse cursor, those DOTA/HoN/LoL players know what i mean. (although i started using it with the graphic now just for preference)




Skills
Healing Skill - Healing Spring
I chose this specifically to assist my team in teamfights but i'm sure the others would suit you better if you so wished. This places a 6K instant heal on the ground and adds a HoT (Heal over Time) on yourself and i think anyone else in it, very nice for team fights as it acts as a Combo Field also.

Utility Skill 1 - Signet of Stone
Having this is pretty much just to increase our survivability as we can't be too squishy and be a hinderance to our team now can we, activating this will also give ourselves and the pet a nice invincibility for a good few seconds which can save our asses when you see the enemy drop all their cooldowns on you.


Utility Skill 2 - Sharpening Stone
This allows my next five skills to apply a bleed effect on the enemy, this is usually popped before my Elite skill and Rapid Fire for max possible bleed stacks while using the Longbow.

Utility Skill 3 -  Quickening Zephyr
This ability allows my skills and actions to act twice as fast, giving us even more bleed stacks  in a shorter time, using this with the Shortbow's Cross Fire is also a very nice way to apply bleeds and stack them.

Elite Skill - Rampage As One
I have tried the other Elite skills but i find this is the best one for PvP to help burst down those enemies in either 1v1 or 2v1 situations, or to help secure that boss/creature kill for the team, or to steal it ;)


Traits

These traits are subject to change and can be played around with depending on the situation, and as stated before this was something i put together during the BWE3 and have not had chance to test against other traits using dummies.


Will be added soon

Gear Upgrades/Items
For my gear set i chose the Superior Rune of the Nightmare;
The effects are dependent on the number of armor pieces the rune is placed in.
  • +28 condition damage
  • +4% condition duration
  • +55 condition damage
  • +6% condition duration
  • +100 condition damage
  • 5% chance to cause fear when hit. (cooldown: 90s)
As you can see it adds some very nice condition damage and duration which really helps make this build strong.

As for my Amulet i chose the Rabid Amulet ;
You can find the stats here http://wiki.guildwar...et&oldid=258333



Here is some footage of me using the build after only like 1-2 hours gameplay (so no hating!)


[SB Ranger] I'm gonna make you BLEED!

I hope you enjoyed this, any comments are welcome.

Sycthrex

Edited by Sycthrex, 23 July 2012 - 08:40 AM.

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#2 Ice_Pirate

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 10:17 PM

The runes are what I'm using only for the sixth I took a different rune since I find the fear useless. The condition damage is nice. You're using mostly sharpening stone for your bleeds then? Anyways I will give this a shot tonight provided the servers stay up.

Here is a link to mine with melee weapons if you want a change of pace.

http://www.guildwars...ased-questions/

#3 Sycthrex

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Posted 21 July 2012 - 11:06 PM

View PostIce_Pirate, on 21 July 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

The runes are what I'm using only for the sixth I took a different rune since I find the fear useless. The condition damage is nice. You're using mostly sharpening stone for your bleeds then? Anyways I will give this a shot tonight provided the servers stay up.

Here is a link to mine with melee weapons if you want a change of pace.

http://www.guildwars...ased-questions/

Yeah i use Sharpening Stone for 100% Bleed stacks (provided they don't evade/miss)
I have not tried Melee Ranger out but i will look your build over and try that bad boy out :)

Thanks

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#4 Nyth

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 12:03 AM

Although I love the idea of running dual bows (it was my initial plan as well) I don't think you can get as much juice out of the longbow seeing as you stack condition damage and the longbow is a pure power weapon.

Rapid Fire is nice to get the sharpening stone bleeds up faster, but you don't actually gain enough from it to specificially take the longbow for that purpose (it's 5 charges, whether you apply those in 1 second with rapid fire or 2 seconds with the shortbow doesn't matter all that much, it's still 5 charges).

Either way, looking forward to the footage. Dual bow is RP wise still my favorite setup.

Edited by Nyth, 22 July 2012 - 12:03 AM.


#5 Ice_Pirate

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 02:12 AM

View PostSycthrex, on 21 July 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

Yeah i use Sharpening Stone for 100% Bleed stacks (provided they don't evade/miss)
I have not tried Melee Ranger out but i will look your build over and try that bad boy out :)

Thanks

Sword/dagger ranger seems to bring down squishies fast (without using axe even) since it's the set or dagger is with the healing reduction. The two skills with evades are nice if you duel a thief. Most of them spam heartseeker anyways if they are melee.

#6 Souldriver9

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:12 AM

You Do realise the weakness of this Build right !!
There alot and I do mean alot of skills out there that reflect projectiles.
To make this build work effectively you really have to know what reflecting skills they have and how they look like before you go in and attack anybody.
If not you most definitely get 60% of your Dps back at your face.
I would advice to put some point in to beast mastery so  not all your dps comes from your bows.
The pet AI is not perfect but I have seen and Most definitely know now that they HURT and 90% of the people out  there are still ignoring them.

Edited by Souldriver9, 22 July 2012 - 03:13 AM.


#7 Sycthrex

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 09:01 AM

View PostSouldriver9, on 22 July 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

You Do realise the weakness of this Build right !!
There alot and I do mean alot of skills out there that reflect projectiles.
To make this build work effectively you really have to know what reflecting skills they have and how they look like before you go in and attack anybody.
If not you most definitely get 60% of your Dps back at your face.
I would advice to put some point in to beast mastery so  not all your dps comes from your bows.
The pet AI is not perfect but I have seen and Most definitely know now that they HURT and 90% of the people out  there are still ignoring them.

Every build has a weakness and what makes a player good is knowing when to use their abilities, i had lots of fun with this build and still do, the only problem i am having at the moment is with damn Thiefs and their Heartseeker because i am so squishy :(

Plus, i am not here to say my build is the best or anything i am just showing people what i am having fun with.

View PostNyth, on 22 July 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

Although I love the idea of running dual bows (it was my initial plan as well) I don't think you can get as much juice out of the longbow seeing as you stack condition damage and the longbow is a pure power weapon.

Rapid Fire is nice to get the sharpening stone bleeds up faster, but you don't actually gain enough from it to specificially take the longbow for that purpose (it's 5 charges, whether you apply those in 1 second with rapid fire or 2 seconds with the shortbow doesn't matter all that much, it's still 5 charges).

Either way, looking forward to the footage. Dual bow is RP wise still my favorite setup.

I totally agree, i have not had chance to run another weapon set yet and after writing this up i realized that choosing LB was a mistake as you pointed out, i will deffo be trying out a more Melee approach soon.

Updated first post with video

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#8 Nyth

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:57 PM

Nice vid. Although it somewhat confirms what I mentioned before, in that the longbow doesn't really add enough.
I think that the axe/horn or axe/torch are the best alternatives; sword might work too, for a bit more power up close.

Edited by Nyth, 22 July 2012 - 02:06 PM.


#9 Sycthrex

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 08:41 AM

View PostNyth, on 22 July 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Nice vid. Although it somewhat confirms what I mentioned before, in that the longbow doesn't really add enough.

Yeah i noticed that, i am currently trying some Sword/Torch + SB combo now

I will be using Axe/Horn with this build and i am going to work on the Traits later on this week and keep this updated.

I had an awesome time with this build and if the enemy didn't realise all the bleeds they would simply just get destroyed.

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#10 Sir Sparhawk

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 10:55 AM

I wish someone made a LB vid out so I can compare, but shortbow looks pretty promising, I still wish they would change crossfire a bit.

#11 Sycthrex

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:01 AM

View PostSir Sparhawk, on 23 July 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

I wish someone made a LB vid out so I can compare, but shortbow looks pretty promising, I still wish they would change crossfire a bit.

How would you want it changing?
I think it is pretty fine as it is in terms of flanking etc

And my last video was a LB video, even though i played badly lol

Edited by Sycthrex, 23 July 2012 - 11:01 AM.

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#12 AndrewSX

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:06 AM

View PostSycthrex, on 23 July 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

How would you want it changing?
I think it is pretty fine as it is in terms of flanking etc

Problem is, SB bleed applied while flanking is worse that bleed applied by any other prof auto attack w/o any flanking requirement.

Rifle or Sword warrior, scepter nec, earth dagger/scepter ele, pistol MH engi. All of those deal MORE bleed on auto attack w/o having to deal with flank the opponent.

Wolud make much more sense something like you bleed for "X" if facing, bleed for "2X" if flanking.

#13 Sycthrex

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:09 AM

View PostAndrewSX, on 23 July 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

Problem is, SB bleed applied while flanking is worse that bleed applied by any other prof auto attack w/o any flanking requirement.

Rifle or Sword warrior, scepter nec, earth dagger/scepter ele, pistol MH engi. All of those deal MORE bleed on auto attack w/o having to deal with flank the opponent.

Wolud make much more sense something like you bleed for "X" if facing, bleed for "2X" if flanking.

This is true and i would actually like to see this implemented but maybe 1.5x not 2x as it could cause some to scream OP which some people already do.

But if you notice in my video i tend to play as if i am a Melee Ranger and like to get up close and personal so using dodge skills and out manoeuvring then to flank is all the fun to me.
May not be so viable in tPvP against skilled players but sure is in WvW + Hot join

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#14 Sir Sparhawk

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 11:19 AM

View PostSycthrex, on 23 July 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

How would you want it changing?
I think it is pretty fine as it is in terms of flanking etc

And my last video was a LB video, even though i played badly lol

Id like it so when you hit crossfire they bleed for 3 secs and 6 secs if flanking, thats the only thing.

#15 Smellyead

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:01 PM

Bleeds are the best. I ran something similar for my ranger in spvp, all traps for utilities though.

For armour runes I'd actually say swap to 4 afflicted and 2 krait for cond damage and 15% bleed duration.

Shortbow with earth on makes bleeds easy to stack too. Axe with earth then warhorn with geomance.

Edited by Smellyead, 23 July 2012 - 12:03 PM.


#16 AndrewSX

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:03 PM

View PostSycthrex, on 23 July 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

This is true and i would actually like to see this implemented but maybe 1.5x not 2x as it could cause some to scream OP which some people already do.

But if you notice in my video i tend to play as if i am a Melee Ranger and like to get up close and personal so using dodge skills and out manoeuvring then to flank is all the fun to me.
May not be so viable in tPvP against skilled players but sure is in WvW + Hot join

I agree, but the point is that with the main condition weapon for Rangers is, for unknown reasons, harder to get the bleed, and last less than any other prof (that hasn't flank requirements).

That's what bugs me.

#17 Eenskolde

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:03 PM

I used axe/wh for the running boost. As for utility i used the spike trap for extra CC and more bleedstacks.

I first ran my traits 10-30-30-0-0 but later i changed it to 10-30-25-0-5 for the QZ you get from 5 points in beast mastery (more bleeding stacks wooo).

#18 Sycthrex

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:24 PM

View PostSmellyead, on 23 July 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Bleeds are the best. I ran something similar for my ranger in spvp, all traps for utilities though.

For armour runes I'd actually say swap to 4 afflicted and 2 krait for cond damage and 15% bleed duration.

Shortbow with earth on makes bleeds easy to stack too. Axe with earth then warhorn with geomance.

I pretty much already run this, i will have a look at the mixed runes later when im home ^_^

Thanks for the idea

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#19 Smellyead

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 04:33 PM

View PostSycthrex, on 23 July 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

I pretty much already run this, i will have a look at the mixed runes later when im home ^_^

Thanks for the idea

This is the build/gear I was running. (Was posting from my phone earlier so couldn't link)

http://gw2skills.net...Aj1HHMSfWVMqY7B

30% Bleed duration from the mixed armour is lovely with a bleed based build. The extra poison is useful too to stop as much healing output from other teams.

Rampagers jewel is defiantly the best for a bleed based build too, with + precision and condition damage.

#20 Nyth

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 04:43 PM

I still think the mixed rune train of thought is underused. You can get +45% bleed duration if you take 3 different rune sets; at the cost of about 7 damage per tick or something.

Whether you'd want to focus more on condition damage rather than the duration is still up for debate a bit, but frankly +45% duration is effectively +45% damage when the fight crosses a certain duration (which I believe with ranger is pretty low like 6-7 seconds); and you'd need a LOT of condition damage to make up for that.

#21 Sycthrex

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 04:50 PM

View PostNyth, on 23 July 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

I still think the mixed rune train of thought is underused. You can get +45% bleed duration if you take 3 different rune sets; at the cost of about 7 damage per tick or something.

Whether you'd want to focus more on condition damage rather than the duration is still up for debate a bit, but frankly +45% duration is effectively +45% damage when the fight crosses a certain duration (which I believe with ranger is pretty low like 6-7 seconds); and you'd need a LOT of condition damage to make up for that.

Duration from what i have seen/read is not used as widely as Damage but will careful use of skills and survivability then i could easily see Duration mixed with higher stacks of intensity as a Pro, rather than a Con.

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#22 Haku

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 04:53 PM

Wish I'd seen that duration thing sooner. I was doing some interesting things with Axe/Warhorn x Greatsword in tourney pvp. Was using Nightmare runes though.

#23 Sycthrex

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 04:57 PM

View PostHaku, on 23 July 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Wish I'd seen that duration thing sooner. I was doing some interesting things with Axe/Warhorn x Greatsword in tourney pvp. Was using Nightmare runes though.

IMO Nightmare is still viable but maybe not the entire Set, shame we can't really min-max until launch now though :(

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#24 Haku

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:05 PM

View PostSycthrex, on 23 July 2012 - 04:57 PM, said:

IMO Nightmare is still viable but maybe not the entire Set, shame we can't really min-max until launch now though :(
I was running more of a balanced build because I'd be running between points fighting off their attackers, usually warriors or guardians. I took a while to die so I figured 5% chance was viable. In there people are more likely to remove conditions than die from them (atleast in round 3 anyway).

Edited by Haku, 23 July 2012 - 05:06 PM.


#25 Nyth

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:06 PM

View PostSmellyead, on 23 July 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Rampagers jewel is defiantly the best for a bleed based build too, with + precision and condition damage.

It's a solid choice, but it's hard to say yet if it'll be the best.
I always find it hard to judge the better compared to Rabid's jewel/amulet.
It gives about 24 damage extra per bleed tick (108 vs 132) and 1044 extra armor.
At the cost of 509 power, 23% crit and 5090 health.

I'm not really sure how you can factor health vs toughness. In general health is a better stat as it affects all damage, but I think toughness scales quite well. The crit is a big thing, but with 60% of your damage being condition damage the largest benefit is from procs like Sigil of Earth (also if you fully stack Rampager you're over the crit soft-cap): and power also affects a minority of your damage (which if you play it well should come mostly from bleeds).

I think it's really hard to say.

#26 Fatalplus

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:25 PM

I agree with Nyth on the long bow as alternate weapon.  I went with a condition build myself this weekend and totally dominated as well.

I went with axe and warhorn and shortbow.  With splitblade you won't need sharpening stone.

Also, as a condition build you don't have any utility skills (other than sharpening stones) that compliment your set up.  I went with spike trap and flame trap to offer more control and flame trap actually provides very decent spike damage as well as condition field to spread burning.

I also went with runes of the undead as it offers a lot more survivability.

Still good video, nice to see SB gaining some popularity.  Terrible music though - had to turn off the volume so I hope there wasn't commentary I was missing.

#27 Sycthrex

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:29 PM

View PostFatalplus, on 23 July 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

I agree with Nyth on the long bow as alternate weapon.  I went with a condition build myself this weekend and totally dominated as well.

I went with axe and warhorn and shortbow.  With splitblade you won't need sharpening stone.

Also, as a condition build you don't have any utility skills (other than sharpening stones) that compliment your set up.  I went with spike trap and flame trap to offer more control and flame trap actually provides very decent spike damage as well as condition field to spread burning.

I also went with runes of the undead as it offers a lot more survivability.

Still good video, nice to see SB gaining some popularity.  Terrible music though - had to turn off the volume so I hope there wasn't commentary I was missing.

It's hard trying to find music that is enjoyed by most viewers but no, there was just me screaming at the end at being locked down by a Thief :P

Quickening Zephyr allows for fast stacking my bleeds when flanking and also helps with getting everything i need on there like in a shorter amount of time, the Signet is mainly for the 6 second invulrability which usually saves me butt from all the CDs being dropped on me, Traps personally for me are horrible, i despise them.

I am not saying they are bad, not at all but they are just not 'Me', i you get me.. it's just not my playstyle and i am in no way telling people how to play a condition build, the beauty of GW2 is it allows everyone to play their own way without hindering them too much.

But thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

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#28 Fatalplus

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 05:34 PM

View PostSycthrex, on 23 July 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

It's hard trying to find music that is enjoyed by most viewers but no, there was just me screaming at the end at being locked down by a Thief :P

Quickening Zephyr allows for fast stacking my bleeds when flanking and also helps with getting everything i need on there like in a shorter amount of time, the Signet is mainly for the 6 second invulrability which usually saves me butt from all the CDs being dropped on me, Traps personally for me are horrible, i despise them.

I am not saying they are bad, not at all but they are just not 'Me', i you get me.. it's just not my playstyle and i am in no way telling people how to play a condition build, the beauty of GW2 is it allows everyone to play their own way without hindering them too much.

But thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

Different play styles I guess.  Prof is in the pudding and you seem to make a lot of pudding in those videos :)

I really didn't want to make a trap ranger since I like QZ and many of the signets but the condition damage I got off of the traps more then made up for the quick bleed application of QZ.  I even ran with sharpening stones thinking it made perfect sense to have a clickable ability to apply bleeds, but i found the extra control (and bleeds) of spike trap was just so much nicer with my playstyle.

The only thing I don't like about the traps is the heavy trait investment one needs to make them effective.

Edited by Fatalplus, 23 July 2012 - 05:34 PM.


#29 Sycthrex

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 07:00 PM

View PostFatalplus, on 23 July 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

Different play styles I guess.  Prof is in the pudding and you seem to make a lot of pudding in those videos :)

I really didn't want to make a trap ranger since I like QZ and many of the signets but the condition damage I got off of the traps more then made up for the quick bleed application of QZ.  I even ran with sharpening stones thinking it made perfect sense to have a clickable ability to apply bleeds, but i found the extra control (and bleeds) of spike trap was just so much nicer with my playstyle.

The only thing I don't like about the traps is the heavy trait investment one needs to make them effective.

Traps will deffo be something i will look at, but in a defending route so defending cap points/forts etc but i guess nothing beats someone running into a trap aye :P

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#30 Sir Sparhawk

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 07:54 PM

View PostSycthrex, on 23 July 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

Duration from what i have seen/read is not used as widely as Damage but will careful use of skills and survivability then i could easily see Duration mixed with higher stacks of intensity as a Pro, rather than a Con.

This was my shortbow condition build last BWE that I never tested, Ive heard things changed. http://www.gw2build.....0.0.20.20.30.0 So I gotta look at that. Ill tweak it out and post any changes.

Does power change bleed damage at all? I dont think it does, and if it doesnt then here is my updated version of my build. http://www.gw2build.....0.0.30.20.20.0
Still debating on if I wanna use spiked trap, or sharpening stone. How is QZ with a condition build? Doesnt seem like it would help much. Any opinions on that last utility skill? Im thinking sharpening stone might help keep stacks up personally but so would spike trap.





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