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Jumping Puzzles... yay or nay?

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#61 sanedude

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 11:57 PM

I love them and they definatly should be made easier. This difficulty is what makes it all fun, a challenge.

#62 relshdan

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:01 AM

BIG yay....but don't make them easier.
i suck at them, so completing one feels like so much more of an accomplishment than anything else in the game (since i haven't reached level 30 yet).  it's a great addition to traditional MMO faire.

Edited by relshdan, 25 July 2012 - 12:02 AM.


#63 Tenicord

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:02 AM

I enjoy them although I do feel they might have gone a little overboard especially now with the vistas. but w/e they are a cool addition for sure. I just hope, down the road they add other distractions besides just jumping puzzles, like make a scavenger hunt or bounty board, or.. you get the idea.

#64 Jaxcel

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:04 AM

What's wrong with having difficulty in games?

I love jumping puzzles. They're so much fun. The more difficult, the better.

#65 Kallen

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:08 AM

I like the jumping puzzles. Their difficulty is what makes them satisfying once you complete them.
I'm going to be looking forward to doing them.

#66 thevigilantone

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:13 AM

Yay for me. It may be endless hours of cruel torture, but this makes the world unique and gives you the drive to explore and discover new things. They may be crazy hard, but that is OK too. Like others have said, it makes it worth the time to be able to say you finished it.

#67 joea64

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:16 AM

I don't mind the jumping puzzles, but they (specifically vistas) should not be tied to map completion. I think completing the map is already enough of a challenge without adding what, IMO, is an unneccessary level of difficulty. I'd be perfectly happy with jumping puzzles getting an achievement track of their own and the requirements for map completion going back to what they were before BWE3.

#68 Vsin

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:17 AM

Yay for those crazy long ones hidden in cracks and crevices.  Seriously, I saw the video for the one in the Asura starting area (...after the Beta finished...) and that was absolutely nuts for supposedly low-level content.

However, Nay for those mini-jumping-puzzles required to get to most Vistas.  It was initially enjoyable, but after 20 or so it just became horribly tedious because the puzzles themselves were extremely simple so it felt like they were just getting in the way instead of enhancing the experience.

#69 Takato

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:17 AM

Yay for me, it's a fun challenge for something that doesn't involve combat :)

#70 Lethality

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:21 AM

View PostJaxcel, on 25 July 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

What's wrong with having difficulty in games?

I love jumping puzzles. They're so much fun. The more difficult, the better.

Well, there are other genres that do it much better. It's not the unique selling proposition of MMOs... so the effort feels a little wasted, because a true platformer with that design in mind will give you a much better experience.

Edited by Lethality, 25 July 2012 - 12:30 AM.


#71 Haishao

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:26 AM

^  
no fun allowed!


View Postjoea64, on 25 July 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

I don't mind the jumping puzzles, but they (specifically vistas) should not be tied to map completion. I think completing the map is already enough of a challenge without adding what, IMO, is an unneccessary level of difficulty. I'd be perfectly happy with jumping puzzles getting an achievement track of their own and the requirements for map completion going back to what they were before BWE3.

Completing maps isn't mandatory. You wont suffer pain or whatever it is you imagine you'll be suffering if you don't complete a map. They are for people who wish to do that and most people who do that for map completion instead of reward, are very happy with vistas. I even suggested they add more.

Edited by Haishao, 25 July 2012 - 12:43 AM.


#72 relshdan

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:28 AM

View Postjoea64, on 25 July 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

I don't mind the jumping puzzles, but they (specifically vistas) should not be tied to map completion. I think completing the map is already enough of a challenge without adding what, IMO, is an unneccessary level of difficulty. I'd be perfectly happy with jumping puzzles getting an achievement track of their own and the requirements for map completion going back to what they were before BWE3.

respectfully disagree.  surely they are more worthy than finding waypoints or other static points of interest.
and most vistas are very simple....usually there is only one or two per map that take thought or skill (minimal) to complete.  i think they are aciually necessary to make map completion of cities even worthy of being considered an accomplishment (and nearly all of them are cool to watch, so its an extra level of entertainment).

#73 white_migraine

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:28 AM

Yay for me. the asura jumping puzzle with the stations was just so much fun!

#74 relshdan

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:29 AM

View PostHaishao, on 25 July 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

^  
no fun allowed!

indeed.....wish there was an ignore button feature on this forum.

#75 joea64

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:29 AM

View PostVsin, on 25 July 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

Yay for those crazy long ones hidden in cracks and crevices.  Seriously, I saw the video for the one in the Asura starting area (...after the Beta finished...) and that was absolutely nuts for supposedly low-level content.

However, Nay for those mini-jumping-puzzles required to get to most Vistas.  It was initially enjoyable, but after 20 or so it just became horribly tedious because the puzzles themselves were extremely simple so it felt like they were just getting in the way instead of enhancing the experience.

Actually, at least one of those vistas wasn't simple at all. I spent literally hours trying to do a vista in northeastern Metrica Province (the one near the reactor) and finally gave up because I just couldn't find a way to get to the top, no matter what I tried. In fact, the initial jump was so tricky that it took me much longer to master than I think it should have. Candidly, the whole experience soured me so badly on vistas that, as I posted earlier, I think those should be deleted from map completion requirements. Jumping puzzles as jumping puzzles are a whole different critter, though, and I'm all in favor of a new achievement track being added for those.

#76 Sethroque

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:29 AM

Yay for me. I spent quite some time hunting for those with my friends and it felt rewarding to get there at the end, plus we all laughed when made each other fall (swiftness just before a jump made people miss :P). I liked even more when I saw devs on a interview saying they got a challenge between then to make the hardest jumping puzzle of the game...If I suffered a bit on the lava one I just can't wait to beat all others xD

I personally would like a marker to unlock on my screen once I found the puzzle entrance, I kinda of got lost trying to find the waterfall one in WvW again lol

Edited by Sethroque, 25 July 2012 - 12:32 AM.


#77 joea64

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:33 AM

View Postrelshdan, on 25 July 2012 - 12:28 AM, said:

respectfully disagree.  surely they are more worthy than finding waypoints or other static points of interest.
and most vistas are very simple....usually there is only one or two per map that take thought or skill (minimal) to complete.  i think they are aciually necessary to make map completion of cities even worthy of being considered an accomplishment (and nearly all of them are cool to watch, so its an extra level of entertainment).

However, not ALL of them are "simple" at all. I'm thinking of one particular one in northeastern Metrica Province - I already posted about this, it's the one near the Thaumanova reactor - that I spent literally hours trying to beat and finally gave up on, which really frustrated me. That, to me, defeats the whole purpose of what the game should be about, which is to have fun. If something about a game isn't fun, it should be changed, fixed or even removed. If any vista isn't fun, it should be fixed or taken out.  If ANet is going to keep vistas as a requirement for map completion, they really, REALLY have to do something to fix places like that that make players frustrated and upset instead of giving them a fun challenge.

#78 relshdan

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:36 AM

View Postjoea64, on 25 July 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

However, not ALL of them are "simple" at all. I'm thinking of one particular one in northeastern Metrica Province - I already posted about this, it's the one near the Thaumanova reactor - that I spent literally hours trying to beat and finally gave up on, which really frustrated me. That, to me, defeats the whole purpose of what the game should be about, which is to have fun. If something about a game isn't fun, it should be changed, fixed or even removed. If any vista isn't fun, it should be fixed or taken out.  If ANet is going to keep vistas as a requirement for map completion, they really, REALLY have to do something to fix places like that that make players frustrated and upset instead of giving them a fun challenge.

i know which one you are referring to....that one took a bit of thought and a bunch of trial and error (it looks as though there are many routs to the vista...but there is only one)....but trust me:  when you figure it out, it i feels good.  it really isn't that as difficult as you might first think.

#79 Starfleck

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 12:37 AM

Heh, puzzles are fun :)

Isn't the fun of a puzzle.................. doing it? (jumping or no jumping, they're all the same to me)

Edited by Starfleck, 25 July 2012 - 12:38 AM.


#80 Gli

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 01:46 AM

I don't really care about the presence of jumping puzzles, but I resent them being required for map completion. Not doing those makes you miss very significant rewards, and that sucks. I don't like platform games. I've never played one in my life, and I think their presence in GW2 completely destroys immersion. What the hell is wrong with the people from the Explorer's Guild (or whoever send the map completion letters) that they reward people for acting like loopy mountaingoats and hopping their way to the top of unlikely structures. Someone should bang their heads together and shout some sense into them.

And why the hell can't I climb? I seem to have functioning arms ending in hands with opposable thumbs, as well as legs with pretty normal looking feet, Jumping puzzles just glaringly point out this shortcoming of the engine, further destroying immersion. Actually having done a few last weekend, I was appalled by the physics involved in doing them. There's no sense of weight distribution when balancing on unlikely surfaces, there's no feedback from surfaces that should be affected by the weight of a character landing on them. More limitations of the engine under a bright spotlight, and immersion is a distant memory by now. This is a game of geometric shapes being run through a coarse and clumsy physics simulation, and it's sad to have this pointed out, because the textures are really nice. But it's fun, right? Yeah, if you like frigging platform jumper games.

Jumping puzzles are contrived nonsense, and many of them ridiculously destroy the landscape that they're a part of. They're a separate game apart from the main game (an RPG), and their intrusiveness assaults the thematic integrity. And none of that would matter to me at all, if I just ignore them, go around them in wide circles, and pretend they didn't exist. But if I ignore them I will cheat myself out of what is apparently the most reliable source of transmutation stones outside of the gem shop, as well as significant cash infusions, and that just sucks. If they'd just remove vistas from map completion, and put them under a separate achievement, I'd never feel the urge to do one, and I can have my nice RPG. What's the harm? There's already over 150 other achievements, of which we can ignore a great many without feeling we're hurting our wallet, one more won't do any harm.

So, nay.

Edited by Gli, 25 July 2012 - 01:46 AM.


#81 Astral Projections

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 02:11 AM

View PostGli, on 25 July 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

I don't really care about the presence of jumping puzzles, but I resent them being required for map completion. Not doing those makes you miss very significant rewards, and that sucks. I don't like platform games. I've never played one in my life, and I think their presence in GW2 completely destroys immersion. What the hell is wrong with the people from the Explorer's Guild (or whoever send the map completion letters) that they reward people for acting like loopy mountaingoats and hopping their way to the top of unlikely structures. Someone should bang their heads together and shout some sense into them.

And why the hell can't I climb? I seem to have functioning arms ending in hands with opposable thumbs, as well as legs with pretty normal looking feet, Jumping puzzles just glaringly point out this shortcoming of the engine, further destroying immersion. Actually having done a few last weekend, I was appalled by the physics involved in doing them. There's no sense of weight distribution when balancing on unlikely surfaces, there's no feedback from surfaces that should be affected by the weight of a character landing on them. More limitations of the engine under a bright spotlight, and immersion is a distant memory by now. This is a game of geometric shapes being run through a coarse and clumsy physics simulation, and it's sad to have this pointed out, because the textures are really nice. But it's fun, right? Yeah, if you like frigging platform jumper games.

Jumping puzzles are contrived nonsense, and many of them ridiculously destroy the landscape that they're a part of. They're a separate game apart from the main game (an RPG), and their intrusiveness assaults the thematic integrity. And none of that would matter to me at all, if I just ignore them, go around them in wide circles, and pretend they didn't exist. But if I ignore them I will cheat myself out of what is apparently the most reliable source of transmutation stones outside of the gem shop, as well as significant cash infusions, and that just sucks. If they'd just remove vistas from map completion, and put them under a separate achievement, I'd never feel the urge to do one, and I can have my nice RPG. What's the harm? There's already over 150 other achievements, of which we can ignore a great many without feeling we're hurting our wallet, one more won't do any harm.

So, nay.

You must be confusing Vistas with jumping puzzles. Vistas are required, jumping puzzles are not. Your whole long post is a fail.

#82 Daisyspit

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 02:17 AM

Nay for me.   I suck at jumping in every game I have played.  I get very frustrated with repeated failures, and not going to be doing them in this game.

#83 Takato

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 02:18 AM

View PostAstralprojections, on 25 July 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

You must be confusing Vistas with jumping puzzles. Vistas are required, jumping puzzles are not. Your whole long post is a fail.

I actually don't think it was a complete fail, as it was great entertainment to read another post that uses the "break immersion" card to justify something they don't want in a video game.

You really can't satisfy everyone can ya ? lmao.

#84 Gli

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 02:26 AM

View PostAstralprojections, on 25 July 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

You must be confusing Vistas with jumping puzzles. Vistas are required, jumping puzzles are not. Your whole long post is a fail.
Obviously, I'm talking about the vistas requiring me to pretend I'm playing some Supermario clone. Some vistas I did past weekend required jumping, and figuring out how to jump, i.e. puzzling. There's jumping, there's puzzling, that's a jumping puzzle to me.

If I accidentally label them that way when there are also apparently things in the game actually called 'jumping puzzles' that aren't vistas, I blame the mix-up on my profound disinterest in the whole nonsense. Every other thing in my previous post still stands, despite your disingenuous attempt to wave it away based upon a badly chosen term.

#85 Ketill

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 02:38 AM

I love them. The more challenging the better (I beat Super Meat Boy, so I'm not afraid of what they can throw at me! :)

However, I'd be fine if they tied them with a "jumping puzzle achievement" in the case of vistas. It doesn't bother me what I reward is as long as they don't make them less challenging just to satisfy people who don't like doing them.

#86 Voltar

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 02:39 AM

why so no to free optional content?  matter of fact i've been sending periodic emails to 5 friends with links about gw2 and ps2.  this last one was almost exclusively videos of jumping puzzles.

#87 Absolutionis

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 02:40 AM

I like Vistas and the Jumping sequences.

Some of the vistas are outright puzzles that involve jumping. It requires thinking and planning to figure out that you can climb that vine or you can reach the top of that building via another building. The penalty for failure is you realizing a method doesn't work.
These are required for 100% map completion, but are oftentimes more logic-based rather than skill-based.

There are some long-winded jumping sequences like the Gormm's Lab in Metrica Province or the ruined Observatory in Queensdale. Those are more skill-based with tight jumps and the occasional enemy. These aren't really puzzles in that you oftentimes know what you need to do. It's just that jumping across multiple platforms with well-timed jumps while electricity is striking is difficult.
These are not required.

So yeah, I love both.
Having the vista puzzles for 100% completion makes sense because they're easy and short once you figure them out. There isn't much physical skill required.
The platforming/jumping sequences with the 'Splendid Chest' at the end are also fine. They're completely optional. Those that like jumping can do it. Those that don't enjoy it can kill boss monsters for Splendid Chests. In the end, cartographers can simply ignore it.

It's all genius and well-done.

#88 Roqztar

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 02:54 AM

Yay for sure, it's a fun thing to add to this game since i recall so many people complained about not being able to jump in gw1 and now
that we can jump they even decided to add jumping puzzle's. That is actually listening to the players who all wanted to jump in gw1 and now they added a small minigame with it aswell.

It made me laugh as soon as i heard they added jumping puzzles to this game. I was like; now that is smart and fun! :)

#89 Apollo Giant

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 03:48 AM

I did the one in metrica province and had loads of fun trying to complete it even if the reward was mediocre.

#90 Essence Snow

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 03:58 AM

Ummm Yes Please!.....for having them and having rewards for them
Ummm Hell NO!...for having them attached to mandatory components like map completion.





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