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LFG vs DF: Can they work together?

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#1 Phuriocity

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:39 AM

We had a long thread with a lot of not-so-nice arguing back and forth about the topic. In light of that, I'm hoping this thread can provide a solid idea for a bridging between the two factions, and that it can promote proper conversation about the topic.

Reasons listed in opposition of DF (Dungeon Finder) system:
-It hurts the game community as a whole through various avenues.
-It really isn't necessary in a game with no Holy Trinity.

Reasons listed in opposition of LFG (Looking for Group) system:
-Not as easy to use/convenient.
-Most player's experience has found such systems to take longer.

I'm personally in favor of the LFG system. I have seen it done successfully in DDO. Here is an example of what it looks like there:

Posted Image

A fellow poster took this image and came up with what I believe to be a fantastic idea to bring the two ideas together. Here it is:

That looks absolutely brilliant. I really hope someone at ArenaNet has a good look at it, and takes this design to heart. I think if they stream line it, then it would be one of the strongest foundations in this game's community.

What I think can make it better is:

1. Add available players next to group. That way you can also see players who haven't formed parties yet, so people in groups can just go grab players they want.

2. Under groups they should have more categories. Dungeons for those wanting to go off to a dungeon, Events for parties formed during event chains (would be especially great while doing Orr), Zones for groups just doing the content in areas and wanting to party up, and Personal for people interested in joining others on their personal storylines.

3. Like I suggested in an earlier post, for those who want a Dungeon Finder tool. Next to groups, and players (as I suggested in point no.1), there should be an auto finder option. The Auto Finder window can also have dungeons, events, zones, and personal, each with a list of dungeons and running events which players can tick and then select auto group.
When the finder forms a group, you can even have a pop-up that asks if you wish to be taken to the nearest waypoint.
Now, when you form a party under groups, somewhere in the interface there can be a tickbox stating whether or not your party is auto joinable. This option can be there for group leaders who first want to screen players and communicate with them before they invite anyone into their party. This means there are two ways to find a party, a) the game can throw 5 players waiting to auto join together, or B) a half formed party desperately looking for one or two members can have an auto joiner be thrown in with them.

This option would really bridge the gap between DF and LFG fans. So, if you're someone fighting for the DF, please read my post and tell me what you think.


I would really like to hear opinions on this idea, as I think this could be the answer to all of the issues presented by both sides of the argument.
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#2 Azjenco

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 08:24 AM

I really hope someone at ArenaNet get to see this. I think they can take some of the ideas we've been throwing around and really make something impressive out of it. :)
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#3 Phuriocity

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 11:00 AM

Ohand, feel free to disagree with me. I simply want to have a more constructive thread about the topic, with both sides represented outright, instead of having a list of reasons why we need one and not the other as the first post. And try to keep things more civil. I promise I will. =D
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#4 Azjenco

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 03:55 PM

I just wish there was an official ArenaNet site online, so we could talk this through in a constructive way where they can view everything on our minds and even deliver some imput.
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#5 Beorn The Berserker

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 04:01 PM

I just wish there was an official ArenaNet site online, so we could talk this through in a constructive way where they can view everything on our minds and even deliver some imput.


Anet does read this forum occasionally, but I think they probably have their hands full with the feedback from the official forums right now. I guarantee you they know about the player demand for an LFG tool, because people have been asking for this since the first BWE when they got to level 30 and realized how hard it is to form a group for catacombs.
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#6 Iron Legionnaire

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 05:52 PM

Damn, that looks great. I really love me some LFG tools and don't understand why so few games have them.
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#7 Jexx

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 06:17 PM

Wouldn't the fact that dungeons require teamwork force social interaction regardless of what kind of group finding system is implemented?

It's just that, a system like a dungeon finder would probably result in groups that fall apart easily.
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#8 Subl

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 06:24 PM

I see no good reason why they wouldnt put something like this in. Maybe they will do it after release because they probably have alot of other stuff to polish this month.
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#9 Deyadissa

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 06:32 PM

No looking for group system has ever worked. There's a reason why world of warcraft replaced it with a better system.

You can say it worked in other games, but it's not true. LFG was always extremely picky about what they wanted, so most people could never do a dungeon unless they hosted the group themselves. Because of that, people just dropped LFG all together and stayed with their guilds.

No matter how many pros you can find from a LFG system, a Dungeon Finder will always be more time efficient. I don't care about difficulty in story mode, that's saved for explorer mode.


Don't be quoting me and say I'm a WoW fan, because that's not true. I can recognize a good feature when I see one. I have been playing the original Guild Wars for years and I have also spent a lot of money on this game to pretty much prove I am not a WoW fanboi.

Edited by Deyadissa, 25 July 2012 - 06:33 PM.

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#10 Eowin

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 06:47 PM

I also think it would be good to add a "Looking for more" tab to the interface. That way, if your group is looking for more members you can specify that and be put on a list. Those looking to join a group that needs 1-2 more players can simply look at what groups are forming and then send them a tell. It would be good to work both ways- ppl looking for groups to flag themselves, groups looking for more to put themselves on the list.

Edited by Eowin, 25 July 2012 - 06:49 PM.

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#11 Torgaard

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 06:59 PM

No looking for group system has ever worked. There's a reason why world of warcraft replaced it with a better system.


I know exactly what you're saying, but actually DDO did in fact make this work. In a huge huge way. The LFG tool in DDO is "the" way to get (pickup) groups in that game. Everyone uses it. It's absolutely perfect. Brilliant in its simplicity, and it brings a tear to the eye for what it lets you do.

DDO's LFG system has always set the bar for LFG systems in MMO's. It truly is the greatest system ever, and probably the only truly successful system out there. There is very very little that could be tweaked to make it better. Making it all the more surprising that nobody else does it the way they do. To my mind, it truly is one of the great unanswered mysteries of MMO development, that DDO has absolutely nailed it; and apparently nobody knows it. Well, I do know actually: because every dev thinks they can do it better. They over-think it.

In fact, considering how consistantly MMO developer's completely frak this kind of stuff up, I frankly would just give them the directive: "Copy DDO's system. Don't think. Don't change it. Do not tweak it. Just do this, exactly as it is. Period." And the split second Johnny UI Designer leans across the conference table and says "Ya, but what if we..." --slap him across the face. Hard. Say it with me: "Copy DDO's system. Don't think. Don't change it. Do not tweak it. Just do it. Do it exactly as it is. Period."
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#12 Kreyl

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:02 PM

I think if done right a LFG tool could work, and I think Arenanet should stay away from a dungeon finder system. This stems mostly from my experiences in WoW, I noticed how it makes groups very antisocial and not willing to work together because they will all be going their separate ways at the end of the dungeon anyway.
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#13 Torgaard

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:19 PM

I think if done right a LFG tool could work, and I think Arenanet should stay away from a dungeon finder system. This stems mostly from my experiences in WoW, I noticed how it makes groups very antisocial and not willing to work together because they will all be going their separate ways at the end of the dungeon anyway.


Ya, Dungeon Finder's are absolute poison. To me, when a developer decides to go with a Dungeon Finder; they're signing the death warrant of any possible hope of any kind of semi-respectful community in their game. It's like putting a giant stamp on the game for "Whining, self-entitled, abusive little ass hats: this is your game!"

Obviously, on the internets, "respectful community" is a joke (at best); but a Dungeon Finder is the earmark of a developer really throwing in the towel. It just says "Hey, we don't give a rats ass what you animals do to each other. If it'll shut you up and feed us money; knock yourselves out".

Edited by Torgaard, 25 July 2012 - 07:50 PM.

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#14 UssjTrunks

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Posted 25 July 2012 - 07:24 PM

As long as there are people playing the game, LFG is an effective way of grouping with the people you want
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