73 replies to this topic

[Matsy]

Absolutionis, on 25 July 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

Nope, read the thread.

I'm not talking about jumping onto a platform you can otherwise jump onto with a jump.
You can skip entire parts of the JP with leaps and such, I did with my Gaurdian.
Sure it takes more precise aiming on the users part but you can still use it to gain an advantage and after getting to know how far it takes you its not exactly hard and can be used just as effectively as a ground aimed jump type skill like jump shot.

Edited by Matsy, 25 July 2012 - 09:01 PM.

[Ritualist]

Give the players a disguise when doing jumping puzzles - turn them into bunnies of set size (also help with the downside of running massive characters) and a set selection of skills.
Only jumping puzzles completed when wearing the bunny-suit count.

[Quinci]

Syncline, on 25 July 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

Kay, so nerf high-DPS classes in dynamic events. Clearly, their ability to get more loot than lower-DPS classes is an advantage.

Wtf is a high-DPS class? You know all "classes" can do high 'dps' right?

Matsy, on 25 July 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

Elemenalist - Ride the lightning
Engineer - Jump shot
Mesmer - Thinking with portals!
Guardian - GS leap
Ranger - GS leap (to a degree...since you charge forward first then jump)
Thief - Shortbow teleport

Suppose all of these needed nerfed because of something as important as JP's .  I do like the JP, even f they are far too easy so far, but nerfing a classes abilities because they have a advantage in JP's where you gain at best a item you can get from a mob drop?

Making the change only in PvE, would effect everything else in PvE....not just JP's

I bolded all of the ones that don't actually work in jump puzzles.

Protoss, on 25 July 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

Give the players a disguise when doing jumping puzzles - turn them into bunnies of set size (also help with the downside of running massive characters) and a set selection of skills.
Only jumping puzzles completed when wearing the bunny-suit count.

Not too sure about bunnies but this actually isn't a bad idea.

Edited by Quinci, 25 July 2012 - 09:02 PM.

[Syncline]

Not every class has access to high-DPS AOE, and that's what lets you get the most loots out of DEs.

Should I ask to nerf ranger DPS because they can carve through PvE mobs' healthbars faster than my mesmer can?

Because all these skills do is offer a very slight speedup, and none over anyone who's gotten the hang of making jumps.

[Matsy]

My guardian leap worked just fine in JP's, so did ride the knighting.
I could skip entire parts of the JP's.
All it takes is to learn how far they actually take you, takes more skill than the aiming skills, but they can still be used.

[Absolutionis]

Quinci, on 25 July 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

I bolded all of the ones that don't actually work in jump puzzles.

Very true.

Ride The Lightning and the other classes do have long-range leaps, but those still require skill to judge distance. Engineers have a 100% click-to-jump skill that ignores environmental hazards such as lightning-slowdown, chill, and cripple.

There was a portion in the Storm Gate of Gormm's lair where the final jump was not possible if you ha taken damage and were in 'combat mode'.

[Phys]

drkn, on 25 July 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

Those who love jumping puzzles, i presume. Likewise, those who love PvP care about PvP; or is it too hard to grasp?


Just make those and other skills work like Blink in PvE, shouldn't be hard to code.



e:

Sorry, but no. It's not a 'minor convenience' and those who actually went through all the currently available puzzles will agree that it's much, much more. I am not saying that the puzzles are the focal point of the whole game and everything should revolve around them, but i do see an unfair advantage here and it annoys me.

bleh, its overkill to try to change or limit skills, the fact is all jumping puzzles can be completed with regular jumping. that is all. if you got switftness, or some ability based jump (which honestly could cause you to fall just as easily) fine, as long as it is doable without it, its fine.

[Quinci]

Matsy, on 25 July 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

My guardian leap worked just fine in JP's, so did ride the knighting.
I could skip entire parts of the JP's.
All it takes is to learn how far they actually take you, takes more skill than the aiming skills, but they can still be used.

This is true IF you ignore the topic. The discussion isn't anything that can give you a slight advantage or aid in jump puzzles, even swiftness would have to be banned then. The discussion is whether the specific skills mentioned in the OP give an unfair advantage and/or trivialize the difficulty of jumping puzzles.

Also I tried multiple times to use the Thief shortbow teleport as well as targeted shadowstep abilities to get across difficult to jump gaps and neither of them worked.

[Syncline]

It gives no unfair advantage because the content CAN be completed without them, without any special skills, etc.

[Baktwerel]

Anela, on 25 July 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

It's jumping puzzles for heaven's sake!  Let them keep their abilities.

This. No one gets anything OP or special from completing a simple jumping puzzle so I don't see why the skills should be changed or touched... so what if they can do it easier? It's not like they get super rare rewards for it or anything. Let them rifle-jump their way to the top if they want it the easy (not so thrilling) way.

[Kurosov]

Protoss, on 25 July 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

Give the players a disguise when doing jumping puzzles - turn them into bunnies of set size (also help with the downside of running massive characters) and a set selection of skills.
Only jumping puzzles completed when wearing the bunny-suit count.

Quinci, on 25 July 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

Not too sure about bunnies but this actually isn't a bad idea.

Seems like a terrible idea to me. Jumping puzzles include enemies and even bosses.

[Matsy]

Quinci, on 25 July 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

-snip-

I'm more talking in the broader sense of the topic.
The two skills mentioned in the OP provide you a massive advantage over things like speed boons etc, so do the skills I listed if you learn to use them correctly.  Sure the ones in the OP are kind of worse, but the ones I listed would still fall under "unfair" I would of thought.

[Absolutionis]

Syncline, on 25 July 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

It gives no unfair advantage because the content CAN be completed without them, without any special skills, etc.

I don't think you understand the meaning of 'advantage'.

I have a skill that lets me perform the task better than you. I have an 'advantage'.
If you were never able to complete the task in the first place, I don't have an 'advantage', you simply don't have a 'capability' because of the class you chose.

[Syncline]

Absolutionis, on 25 July 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

I have a skill that lets me perform the task better than you. I have an 'advantage'

You have an advantage anyway, you're probably not as terrible at jump puzzles as yours truly.

I demand a RL nerf of your hand-eye coordination. Do that stuff with only one half-open eye, dammit.

[Exeunt]

No one is gonna make a engi or Mesmer just for jumping puzzles get over urselves

[ElexAio]

I think the way it should work is that any skill that allows movement like this, like Infiltrator's Arrow, should work so that you can move to places you'd otherwise have to leap to. I don't see why not.

[Elan]

Just throwing this out there, but -no- thief teleport skills allow traversal of gaps.  Not shadowstep, not shortbow teleport.  Ride the lightning also doesn't jump it, it just makes you move faster.  Personally, at least in the case of the thief blinks, they probably -should- be used for that.  It makes sense that it would, as it's a teleport.  However, it's a weird and unfortunate advantage/disadvantage that all jump/blink/teleport skills are not held to the same restrictions on use.

Edited by Elan, 25 July 2012 - 09:16 PM.

[Decker]

I'm not trying to be mean, but the JP are really not that hard, only a few tricks in some and once you learn them it's a cake walk. The idea of nerfing a couple of skills on a couple of professions that give some benefit in a certain area of the game that doesn't even have any great rewards seems like a Bad Idea™. Of all the things I'd like to see added or changed in GW2, this is pretty much near the bottom of my list.

Full Disclosure - I played an Engi in all the BWEs, but always a dual pistol and had no trouble with any of the jumping puzzles, and I did all but the fire lab where you are timed after activating the platforms at the terminals because I didn't find it. And Jump Shot would not have helped there anyway cause you can't waste any time.

[Shamadamun]

100% fair.

Certain professions have certain niches. Taking away niches leads to homogenization. Homegenization = bad.

[Syncline]

Decker, on 25 July 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

And Jump Shot would not have helped there anyway cause you can't waste any time.

Pretty much. The time you take to line up a skill is the time it takes to jump. So jump.

[Quinci]

If you're truly against nerfing the imbalanced skills, then why not give the other skills a buff. If engi and mesmer skills can, shouldn't all classes teleport skills be able to traverse gaps?

[Kikinho]

Shamadamun, on 25 July 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

100% fair.

Certain professions have certain niches. Taking away niches leads to homogenization. Homegenization = bad.

So much this. Also if someone completed a jumping puzzle 1 min. faster than you does that realy annoy you that much? Or are we going with the "my cow died, so the neighbor's cow should die too" mentality?

Edited by Kikinho, 25 July 2012 - 09:32 PM.

[Piellar]

Shamadamun, on 25 July 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

100% fair.

Certain professions have certain niches. Taking away niches leads to homogenization. Homegenization = bad.

Exactly! As a mesmer, I'd hate to lose the ability to help my friends who are frustrated with a puzzle... I'm a pretty good jumper and I don't mind helping! To me, Portal is a class feature that is meant to be shared, whether in WvW or in jumping puzzles, so why deny it to everyone?

[Syncline]

Quinci, on 25 July 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

If you're truly against nerfing the imbalanced skills, then why not give the other skills a buff. If engi and mesmer skills can, shouldn't all classes teleport skills be able to traverse gaps?

I don't really care what other classes do beyond learning to fight them or work with them more effectively. It beats having a jealousy chip on my shoulder and causes less stress.

Edited by Syncline, 25 July 2012 - 09:32 PM.

[Abaregi]

Who cares?
It's just a puzzle, if some classes can breeze through them (and want to do them) good for them!

I can't comprehend how some people can be jealous over a time filler in a video game. You really should take some time and reflect about yourself.

If you got angry when reading this it was directed towards you.

[MinkoAk]

Why would it need a nerf for the jumping puzzles ? It gives a workaround for those who are not skilled enough to do them or too lazy, this is actually a pretty good thing =). I know I'll do them the hard way, but if someone wants to be taken to the end I could care less I know I will have satisfaction while he will just have the game reward.

[Quinci]

Syncline, on 25 July 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

I don't really care what other classes do beyond learning to fight them or work with them more effectively. It beats having a jealousy chip on my shoulder and causes less stress.

So the short answer, minus the condescending holier than thou attitude, is simply "yes."

[Syncline]

Quinci, on 25 July 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

So the short answer, minus the condescending holier than thou attitude, is simply "yes."

There's been a ton of condescending holier than thou attitude in this topic, including from you. But some folks seem to be amazingly willing to be butthurt over the slightest imagined anything.

I'm sorry that y'all are so threatened by this that you need to demand skill changes when you can clearly do the puzzles.

Edited by Syncline, 25 July 2012 - 09:37 PM.

[Massive Jawbone]

Absolutionis, on 25 July 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

I extensively played Engineer in BWE1+2 and Mesmer in BWE3 (because of the character clear).
There are two skills in those professions that concern me with regards to jumping puzzles, and for two similar yet opposite reasons.
They can both be used to cheat, somewhat.
blabla
So I ask you all. Do you think this is fair?
blabla

Yes, it is fair.
(edited for unrelated content, may God's Wrath smite me )

Edited by Massive Jawbone, 26 July 2012 - 12:26 PM.

[Zhahz]

You know you have too much time on your hands and/or are anxiously awaiting a game's release when...you come up with threads like this!

I found the metrica jumping puzzle to be fun.  If a person can shortcut/cheat/whatever you wanna call it, who cares...they'd just be ruining the fun of doing the puzzle for themselves.  The loot sucked.  The whole point was the puzzle itself.  Tamper with that, you cheat yourself.  The whole point of the puzzles IS the puzzles...there is no point in shortcutting.

As a side note, I was able to use the mesmer portal to rescue some people.  We were doing an event where you had to destroy buildings and when a building colapsed, it somehow pinned several people inside (so to speak, they couldn't leave the area of the former building).  They could've waypointed, I'm sure, but the event was still going, and one of the people was my brother.  So, I had extra skill points and tier 3 unlocked, it was just beta, so I figured, wtf, I'll get the portal skill and see if they can port out, and they could.  It was kind of neato, except the part where some of them didn't figure out what I was doing and I had to wait a minute to recast, and even with telling them what to do one of them still didn't freaking take the portal.

Edited by Zhahz, 25 July 2012 - 09:41 PM.