199 replies to this topic

[Ayestes]

I don't think Hundred Blades will play much of a role in burst damage as people become more experienced, as with under 10 days of experience people have already figured it out.  Obviously if you can create the situations to do so, it'll be fantastic, and that's a fun metagame.  I think it's most useful application will be on downed targets by forcing people off the revive even if they are stealthed, under stability, or whatnot.

[agm]

I think the functionality and animation should be completely changed to fit the name better. Like this:

[Kyutaru]

The damage on hundred blades is barely better than the axe autoattack.  Both take 3.6 seconds to execute fully, Hundred Blades hits 9 times while Axe chain hits 6 times, and Hundred Blades will hit for about 15% more damage.

Except the Axe autoattack is mobile.  And doesn't have a cooldown.  And doesn't leave you sitting there like a doofus who can't dodge.  And can deal with dodgers.

But wait there's more... Hundred Blades + Frenzy does even worse damage.  Sure, you get the full HB attack in 1.8 seconds, but Frenzy lasts 4 seconds.  What are you going to do with the other 2.2 seconds?  Can't cast hundred blades again and greatsword autoattack isn't too great.

Now what about that auto-axe?  4 seconds of auto-axe with Frenzy lets you chain two full attack rotations.  Since auto-axe chain is already about 85% of Hundred Blades damage in the same amount of time, with frenzy it becomes 170%+ of Hundred Blades damage (even a little higher since we still have .4 seconds to spend).

Got hit by a berserker warrior using frenzy hundred blades for 16k damage?  He was a noob.  He could have hit you with axe autoattack while using frenzy to do 27k damage.

In conclusion, hundred blades truly isn't anything special when you consider its DPS.  It takes nearly four seconds to cast, so at 10k average, it's only 2500 dps.  Lots of abilities can beat that, there's single target abilities elementalists have that can hit over 7000, and that's a ranged ability that doesn't require channeling.

Regarding Moldran's suggestion -- it's a bad one.  Nerfing hundred blades damage and making it mobile is pointless because it's already only 15% better than autoattacking with an axe.  There's no conditions inflicted, no crowd control, no snare, dodging interrupts the channel, it's overall just a crappy autoattack on an 8 second cooldown.  Greatsword's AoE isn't even a big deal because Axe was changed to AoE too.  So no, nerfing Hundred Blades from the currently sitationally useful team setup it is to a half-assed can't-dodge can't-interrupt autoattack is not the way to go.  The root allows the damage to be higher, and it's not a total loss when playing with a team.  It can even deal chip damage every now and then because the damage is still slightly higher than autoattacking.  It's actually useful in competitive play.  Just not with a berserker amulet and frenzy.



PS - Bull's Charge only knocks down fleeing enemies.  If you get hit by it and die, it's because you were running away.

[Siric]

Kyutaru, on 02 August 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

PS - Bull's Charge only knocks down fleeing enemies.  If you get hit by it and die, it's because you were running away.

Someone hasn't never played warrior....

Bulls always KDs, has nothing to do with fleeing the description is old.

Also when 1 chain of my axe hits someone for 16k like some 100 blades can I will piss myself in excitement.

Edited by Siric, 02 August 2012 - 09:13 PM.

[Shinimas]

Siric, on 02 August 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

Someone hasn't never played warrior....

Bulls always KDs, has nothing to do with fleeing the description is old.

Also when 1 chain of my axe hits someone for 16k like some 100 blades can I will piss myself in excitement.

Someone hasn't played a Warrior. 16k 100b? Nuh-huh.

[Siric]

Shinimas, on 02 August 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

Someone hasn't played a Warrior. 16k 100b? Nuh-huh.

Go watch some PvP video, it happens, makes me die inside. It's rare, but it happens.

[Kyutaru]

Siric, on 02 August 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

Also when 1 chain of my axe hits someone for 16k like some 100 blades can I will piss myself in excitement.

Someone hasn't played a warrior...  The axe attacks 6 times in one chain that lasts about 4 seconds.  Hundred Blades also lasts about 4 seconds.  The times are identical, you can test it by having two warriors side by side at the golems using both attacks.  The axe Autoattack chain deals 15% less overall damage than Hundred Blades just by the value of its coefficients.  You can test all this with Steady weapons in the Mists.  Add the axe traits into the mix and they can break the damage barrier.  If you're not hitting for over 2k per axe swing, you're not built right.

I guess you'll be pissing yourself at launch because Frenzy + Axe = More than Hundred Blades.  Throw in an Eviscerate for good measure.

Edited by Kyutaru, 03 August 2012 - 12:58 AM.

[Siric]

Kyutaru, on 03 August 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

Someone hasn't played a warrior...  The axe attacks 6 times in one chain that lasts about 4 seconds.  Hundred Blades also lasts about 4 seconds.  The times are identical, you can test it by having two warriors side by side at the golems using both attacks.  The axe Autoattack chain deals 15% less overall damage than Hundred Blades just by the value of its coefficients.  You can test all this with Steady weapons in the Mists.  Add the axe traits into the mix and they can break the damage barrier.  If you're not hitting for over 2k per axe swing, you're not built right.

I guess you'll be pissing yourself at launch because Frenzy + Axe = More than Hundred Blades.  Throw in an Eviscerate for good measure.

The compression on it is not even as close, 15% damage is a ton, then start looking at viable traits and see how much easier it is to buff GS damage, ect.

Like I said, when my #1 chain hits for 16 k in 1 go ill piss myself in excitement.

[Epic_Bear_Guy]

I honestly don't see anything wrong with this skill. Like someone else in the thread said it's a high risk/high rewarding skill. I only recall getting hit by it once during my time in the 3 BWE's/stress test. Whats the big deal...

Edited by Epic_Bear_Guy, 03 August 2012 - 06:32 AM.

[Shinimas]

100b is pretty easily countered, although you will still eat 3-4k damage from the Bull's Charge and the AoE flurry. After that you have to face a completely solid Axe Warrior.

These builds are not one trick ponies, 100b is just another weapon in their arsenal. Honestly, I don't mind. Been having some nice fights with 100b+Evis Warriors, been almost on par with them with my Condition build, but I steeped heavily into support, had I chosen better combat options, I'd be ahead.

What people don't realize is how powerful Whirlwind Attack actually is. It can hit for 10k if aimed properly, much quicker and it also makes the Warrior evade all takes for the duration. Not saying it's OP, since it's hard to aim, but people are too focused on 100b.

[Uder]

Half the damage of hundred blades to bring it in line with for example pistol whip and let us move while executing skills like that (hundred blades+pistol whip).

[sagasaint]

good idea, lets nerf anything that can kill newbs with absolutly no clue how to play, dodge, CC or just avoid a telegraphed move

ok, so the list of things to nerf is...what? 10 thousand long?


even better idea ANet, just remove weapons and skills altogether. lets make this the first MMO where players hold their hands and sing together Kum-Ba-Yah




start nerfing HB and the list of things that will be nerfed after that will reach 2016...by that point everything will be balanced again and we can start round 2 with HB again

[geala]

This discussion becomes increasingly ridiculous. There were a lot of Warriors with GS this stress test and I was regularly hit by Hundred Blades with 4000 to 7000 damage. That is not much considering the effort to prepare for it. Rapid Fire from Rangers hits regularly about 6000 to 8000. I don't see a reason to nerf a melee skill that usually inflicts less damage than a ranged skill in similar time. Maybe sometimes Hundred Blades hits for 12000. Never experienced it (on the receiving end, because I don't use GS). However I have experienced several times 10000 damage from Rapid Fire on my Warrior.

I wouldn't mind if every burst skill in the game would be toned down, for me damage is too high. However it is hypocrisy to just beat on some Warrior skills.

[Geikamir]

HB should work like Flurry does now: Immobilize enemy, root player, and cost adrenaline.

Flurry should change to: The enemy isn't immobilized and the player isn't rooted.

[V12US]

At the end of the day, people will whine about this day in day out until kingdom come. It is a playstyle that wrecks scrubs, but is ultimately not effective against skilled opponents. Scrubs don't seek to improve themselves, they strive to bring the game down to their level instead. So instead of training themselves to get better, they whine and cry until the developers nerf whatever keeps defeating them, only to instantly move over and whine about the the next "imba" combo on their 'must-nerf' list.

[weizen]

V12US, on 03 August 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

At the end of the day, people will whine about this day in day out until kingdom come. It is a playstyle that wrecks scrubs, but is ultimately not effective against skilled opponents. Scrubs don't seek to improve themselves, they strive to bring the game down to their level instead. So instead of training themselves to get better, they whine and cry until the developers nerf whatever keeps defeating them, only to instantly move over and whine about the the next "imba" combo on their 'must-nerf' list.

i mained warrior for BWE2/3 and i agreed with this. i find greatsword boring, so mostly played with might stacking hammer builds. nearly as much damage an more control. until yesterday. Played engi with rabid amulet, so my defense wasn't so bad. i never even once got a full 100 blades. But i died to one greatsword warrior especcialy, he hat 15+ might stacks all the time, full power. i would get 2-4 hits from hundred blades which were 3-5k damage. then used rocket boots or some other thing to get away when i botched the dodge (which can happen really easily in 4 on 4 situations). After that he would get to me with rush and whirlwind attack, which both to pretty good damage rush has one of the best power coefficient, and whirlwind attack hit me for over 5k again (was used against a wall so i got more then the usaual 2-3 hits. and autoattacks far above 2k with might stacks.

a friend of mine on a thief got hit by this guy and had no escape tool ready, got hit for over 15k damage.

the game as of now is definitly not balanced. there are more than a few builds for many classes which can kill in seconds, despite of your defence score. the new thing that many people use is might stacking, we used it in bwe3 already with fire field + blast. was ridiculous. you get 875 extra power and condition damage with 25 stacks. and it is feasible to do this.

so i think there will be nerfs for the greatsword. especcialy with this much movement and easy of play. i think i'll switch my main class from warri to engi. Warrior is to straight forward for my taste. even so Hammer really is fun.

[sagasaint]

weizen, on 03 August 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

until yesterday. Played engi with rabid amulet, so my defense wasn't so bad. i never even once got a full 100 blades. But i died to one greatsword warrior especcialy, he hat 15+ might stacks all the time, full power. i would get 2-4 hits from hundred blades which were 3-5k damage. then used rocket boots or some other thing to get away when i botched the dodge (which can happen really easily in 4 on 4 situations). After that he would get to me with rush and whirlwind attack, which both to pretty good damage rush has one of the best power coefficient, and whirlwind attack hit me for over 5k again (was used against a wall so i got more then the usaual 2-3 hits. and autoattacks far above 2k with might stacks.

let me see if I got it right

you played a class with medium defence (engi with rabid isnt exactly a tank-build guardian, is it? )
the warrior had full might stacks
you got hit by HB
you botched your dodge
you got hit by bulls
you got yourself stuck into a wall
you got hit by whirlwind
you got hit by several autoattacks
you died


so, in a nutshell...you play a RANGED class not meant to take many hits, you faced a MELEE foe with perfect buffs, you screwed up your dodges, you have less battlefield awareness than a squirrel and got yourself stuck into a wall to eat a whole whirlwind, and still the guy had to use autoattacks on MELEE range to kill you, a RANGED

and your reflexion from all that is that....GS is OP and needs to be nerfed


you are the kind of player that hurts online games, and you will keep hurting them until you admit you are bad and need to improve alot, instead of blaming a fictional game imbalance...

Edited by sagasaint, 03 August 2012 - 11:11 AM.

[weizen]

sagasaint, on 03 August 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

let me see if I got it right

you played a class with medium defence (engi with rabid isnt exactly a tank-build guardian, is it? )
the warrior had full might stacks
you got hit by HB
you botched your dodge
you got hit by bulls
you got yourself stuck into a wall
you got hit by whirlwind
you got hit by several autoattacks
you died


so, in a nutshell...you play a RANGED class not meant to take many hits, you faced a MELEE foe with perfect buffs, you screwed up your dodges, you have less battlefield awareness than a squirrel and got yourself stuck into a wall to eat a whole whirlwind, and still the guy had to use autoattacks on MELEE range to kill you, a RANGED

and your reflexion from all that is that....GS is OP and needs to be nerfed


you are the kind of player that hurts online games, and you will keep hurting them until you admit you are bad and need to improve alot, instead of blaming a fictional game imbalance...

good for you, that you have no reading comprehension at all. i had 2700 toughness, that's quite tanky for leather, 16k hp.  got knocked to a wall, wasn't stuck there, but when you do whirlwind attack against an obstacle you can get more hits. Sure i did not play my engi perfect, because i only had 4 hours to learn the class. But when your blindsided by a warrior, your *ed.

i was hit with 1/3 of hb, rush, whirlwind attack and an auto attack. and i was dead. The Buffs weren't perfect. Perfect Buffs would be 100% fury uptime, 100% 25 stack might uptime, which is doable. 10 stacks of might, you gain just from fighting with the right setup. no skill use whatsoever.

i played warrior myself for 2 beta weekends,

so right back at ya, you are the kind of player that hurts online games, having no idea of balance, defending your class because you want to be op, no reading comprehension whatsoever and starting discussions of with personal insults.  

as for how bad of a player i am. i play online games since 1998, was one of the best PvP players in Ultima Online, played top 10 european Unreal Tournament. Founded For the Horde in WoW. (played only vanilla) Was one of the best Feral Druids in Classic PvE and PvP wise. Was in  one of the best German Warhammer Online guilds and 6 man group.  But yeah i have no notion of Balance. i may not always be objective but i try to see both sides of the coin. i make it a point, not to play the FOTM Builds, because i think it is boring as hell. When i know i win because of my FOTM build, it isn't really rewarding.

[Benkays]

Imo, greatsword is not only popular because of 100b... If you want to go direct damage... Axe MH is the most obvious alternative to gs...
But i tried everything in combination with it... All you do is running after guys getting kited to death for no reward ( the dmg seems ridiculous...). You're mostly relying on eviscerate to deal a lot of damage... and in the end its pretty much like 100b.. u miss it u're kinda screwed...

On the other hand, Greatsword has crazy mobility... It's skill #3 gives you free dodge... or can be used as a close gap ( so does Rush #5). You spend your time hitting people putting pressure instead of running after them and bleeding to death...

[Kyutaru]

Siric, on 03 August 2012 - 01:09 AM, said:

The compression on it is not even as close, 15% damage is a ton, then start looking at viable traits and see how much easier it is to buff GS damage, ect.

Like I said, when my #1 chain hits for 16 k in 1 go ill piss myself in excitement.

Learn to read!    It actually is much easier to compare when you start to consider that Hundred Blades lasts only 2 seconds with Frenzy while an axe can autoattack twice in the 4 second Frenzy duration.  I said the axe is close in damage, not equal, but with Frenzy, you get two full axe rotations yet only one Hundred Blades.  That 15% less damage becomes 70% more damage than Hundred Blades when Frenzy is active.  So since people are complaining about Frenzy + Hundred Blades = GG, I implore them to try out Axe, as it is FAR more effective for that type of playstyle.  A hundred blades can fail to kill a tank.  An axe autoattacking will not, and you still have Eviscerate.

Anyway, I explained all of this in my original post, so might want to review that again.

Edited by Kyutaru, 03 August 2012 - 08:04 PM.