199 replies to this topic

[Siric]

Speaking as someone who played 70-100 tournament matches both weekend with close to a 90% win rate I agree with what was said in the OP whole heartily.  

The Greatsword warrior bar takes far to little skill to play for how effective it is, however, due to the function of many of the skills at higher levels it is much less effective. This however doesn't mean it is not a problem, the bar still allows players who do not posses solid mechanics to play at 90% of the effectiveness of those that do.

The bar is made too strong by one skill that has been addressed multiple times in this thread already, 100 blades, and the weakness of the bar is basically every other skill. Lets look at each skill one at a time

1. GS Swing -> Slice -> Brutal Strike:

This skill chain does over all pretty good damage, however it suffers from the same thing hammer warriors suffer from, slow animations.  In most games slow animations are considered terrible at high level play, they telegraph your move far to much and allow players to react.  These skills are then balanced by giving the long animation skills devastating effects such as more damage, knock downs, silences, ect. The problem is compounded even more in Gw2, in other games you may have to use a skill or a teammates help to counter some of these long animation skills, in Gw2 you can just juke or dodge them. It makes melee 2H weapons very hard to balance as they are much more prone to being dodged and when you are dodged it puts you behind much more then someone dodge an axe warriors triple chop.  For this reason I feel like the #1 chain simply needs its animation sped up, there are several ways to do this, I would suggest keeping Swing and Slice at the same animation and make Brutal Strike a front loaded animation (fast animation with longer after cast) it keeps the DPS balanced to where it is now but makes it so Brutal Strike has a much better chance of landing.  Brutal Strike should also give some form of secondary effect such as vulnerability, a 3-5 second Might, ect.

2. Hundred Blades:

The crux of the problem with the bar at the moment, the skill is a fire and forget skill and in group play does an insane amount of cone damage. The damage on this skill needs cut between 25-30%, some of this damage should be distributed to the rest of the bar, but most of it needs to go to allow for this next change.  The skill then needs to no longer root you in place and allow you to move and turn while channeling it.  Now we have gone to a fire and forget skill that did far to much damage to players if caught, to a skill that promotes good use by both players.  If your target dodges away from you, you can now turn and get onto the nearest target so your damage skill goes through, on the downside if you do not have good mechanics you are now going to have the same issue you do with every other melee skill bar and not be overly effective for your skill level. The CD may have to be upped to 12 or so to make up for the other changes to the bar.

3. Whirling Attack:

The skill is far to clumsy, point, click, whirl. There is no way to change the whirl distance. This is again, good for players of low skill level as it is less apm required to run the bar effective, but bad for players at a high level as you can not use the skill to its fullest potential.  The fix here is easy, make it like Tynidamer, Shyvana, or various other LoL champions with in-line skill shots. Give it variable length. Here is an example of what I mean for those of you who have not played LoL www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z66n3UYfPE4&feature=player_detailpage#t=169s , the video is queued up so you can see Shyvana's variable length skill shot ult.

A change like this is HUGE, it makes the skill bar far FAR less clunky and allows for some really good play.  On the flip side I would up the recharge a bit as GS warrior already has 2 "gap closing" skills and up the damage by about 10% to compensate for the recharge and 100blades nerf.

4. Bladetrail:
This skill simply suffers from its terribly long animation, fix that and fix the skill, nothing else really to say. Also possibly lower the CD a bit.


5. Rush:

This is a bit of an odd one 1200 range gap closer, but it has no interesting effect and a long animation to boot.  The doesn't NEED to be changed, but I think it would be much better off at a 600-900 ranged cap closer with more damage, less CD, and a secondary effect.  Personally I think a 900 range with 16 sec CD and gives 5-10 sec of swiftness would be much more appealing and provide for more skilled play of the bar.

6. Arcing Slice:
Really lack luster for a F1 skill, but nothing too bad. Leaving it the way it is would be fine.

One last balance note:

     People often lump Frenzy in with this bar, Frenzy doesn't need a nerf to compensate for this bar, the bar needs changed.  Yes 100blades does abuse Frenzy much harder than some other bars are able to, but that is an issue with 100blades, not frenzy.

There are multiple ways the bar could be adjusted to make it more skillful, my suggestions here are far from the only viable ones, but what is important is that power is taken away from 100 blades and the bar is made so that it is far less clumsy in high level play.

Also I did not watch OPs video before posting this so it will be interesting to see what he has to see in comparison.


P.S. Someone get a dev up in here so they can fix this skill set. Thanks .

Edited by Siric, 29 July 2012 - 10:11 PM.

[Arewn]

They should definitely KEEP the fact that you can't move while using it. That's the major part of the skill involved in its use. You have to make the enemy waste their dodge roles, or coordinate with an ally's CC, or combo it with your own CC. It's still viable to use at higher levels of play, it just changes from destroying noobs, to being worthless in the hands of a noob. If you are against a skilled enemy who can avoid it, but are skilled enough to understand how to combo and use the ability properly, the balance (aside from maybe a few number tweaks) is there.
The only real problem is turning new players off by getting destroyed by it.

[Dizzyman]

Bean_Muncher, on 29 July 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

I think the whole "lock you in place and deal huge damage" idea is just not going to work. The way HB is now, there will always be OP combos. I would like to see it changed to behave like the OH Axe skill Whirling Axe. Hit everyone around you multiple times, being able to move while spinning. Of course its damage would be toned down a bit and the CD would be increased to about 20 seconds, which is very appropriate for an areal denial skill.

Than you have yet another spin skill. Too generic.  The self immobilize give it situational component.

Make it the GS burst ability.  This would also increase its cd to 10s unless traited.  Or make it a ultimate skill. Same damage, no longer immobilizes, min 60s cd.

[Beorn The Berserker]

vVv Valius, on 29 July 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

That's horrible. How is that even useful at all?

A normal autoattack crit hits more than that.

What are you referring to exactly?

[crated]

On one hand it can be countered if you see it coming straight at you, but what if you came up behind someone with an immobilize?

[weizen]

vVv Valius, on 29 July 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

That's horrible. How is that even useful at all?

A normal autoattack crit hits more than that.

if you mean the damage, that's what i believe you do. those numbers are here to give an example of the scaling towards the end. and the actual numbers atm are even lower.

the actual numbers bevore Power Scaling atm are

1-8 strike: 147 damage (not sure maybe 12 strikes then each hits for 98)
9th and final strike 297

this is one skills with the highest base damage in the game (eviscerate is up there too)

this change could make it even more useless in spvp though. and nearly as devastating against unaware players.

i still say cut the damage and allow movement. at the moment the greatsword sucks because of this one skill. i really like the mobility theme on the GS but this self root, high damage skill does not fit.

[Crowley]

A lot of people are saying "Dodge, counter cc, block etc", but that really doesn't justify the damage this thing does to be honest. As a Mesmer I have a similiar ability, with 1-handed sword MH: Blurred Frenzy. Now Blurred Frenzy does about 2k damage in total. If I time it with a strong Phantasm I have a burst of usually 4k, on more rare occasions up to 6-7k. I can't move while using that either, however I become invulnerable while using it, so it has more utility that way. On the other hand, it also has a shorter range since it's a 1-handed sword, not a Greatsword. Now, adding up the numbers and the utility and usage of the skills, as well as the cooldown (Blurred Frenzy has 10 seconds, Hundred Blades has 8), I still think Hundred Blades is absolutely crazy.

But comparing the classes and skill was not really the point here. More in direct response to this thread: Sure, you can do this and that to avoid it, just like you can do with any other attack in the game. But even without having Frenzy, every 20 seconds you can throw out a 4 sec immobilize (900 max range, no min range), which is a large help when trying to get the combo in (and yes it's a utility skill, but if you are going with Greatswords, why oh why would you not take a utility skill that helps you pull off your highest dmg skill). It also has a pretty decent range on it if enemies are bunched up.

To be quite honest, I just don't understand how you can sit there and defend the insane damage it does... Don't you like Guild Wars 2? Don't you want the game to be a success and have lots of people playing it? Being realistic and admitting that the damage on this particular skill is probably too high goes a long way towards ensuring that. As someone who as always played Warrior-type classes in all MMO's I've ever tried, simply having this damage potential from 1 single skill with such a low cooldown simply turned me away from the class completely.

I see a lot of people here saying that it's easy to avoid and it's so hard to get off, but in my experience that's just not true. 4 out of 5 times I tried to hit someone with it I did, and sure you can argue that it's still early, people don't know the game and it will be harder in the future. Which is probably true, but I would also have become better at setting up for it and recognizing the correct situations for it in the future. All in all, I found absolutely no challenge in playing Warrior when having this skill. It's not an instant IWIN button, and of course you can tell me to simply use other weapons if I don't find the Greatsword challenging, but being realistic about this, you do double the burst with this one 8-second cooldown than most other classes can do with far longer cooldowns, which at times are way more difficult to set up than applying a cc and clicking it, or waiting for a cc and clicking it, or simply walking up to someone doing a cast or being out of vigor and doing it (and hoping they don't move too early ).

Anyway, that's my rant and I'm sure it's not very coherent, getting late here on the North Pole. But please, for the sake of the game itself, be honest about the damage on this 1 skill and try to view it objectively.

Edited by Crowley, 30 July 2012 - 12:26 AM.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

The problem with Hundred Blades:

1) The skill itself requires very little investment in terms of the other damage options it forces you to trade for.  For example, it doesn't cost any adrenaline or real trait investment; you just need a CC, Frenzy, and a greatsword.  Otherwise you're free to build your warrior however you like.

2) Not having Frenzy only limits the damage.  Hundred Blades still hits for a huge chunk of damage without quickness (at least 6-7k usually), which means that so long as you have a CC you can still use it to pump out a huge amount of damage anytime you have access to a CC.  What this means in practice is that you can BC > Frenzy > HB as an opener, switch to your other weapon and do whatever, then switch back and use BC > HB without Frenzy and it'll still do a huge chunk of damage.

Bull's Charge is a pretty staple skill in general so the only real investment in HB is having a GS and Frenzy.  People act like HB is easily countered and then the warrior is useless for 60 seconds but that's clearly not the case.  It's more like having a free instagib skill on your bar for convenience whenever you need it; I was running an axe/axe warrior with GS offhand and just using HB as an instakill skill in case I got double or triple-teamed.  In short your opponent already has to deal with the warrior's already insanely-high DPS and survivability, but the odds are even more in your favor because you happen to have a win button sitting on your bar that recharges in 30 seconds, and you can press that button at any time during the fight with no penalty for a free shot at instant victory.

Most of the glass cannon "instagib" builds tend to have everything devoted to that instagib mechanic, which means they tend to suffer in a lot of other categories as a result and go down like paper if the instagib is countered.  The warrior doesn't, if his Bull's Charge fails he can still go fighting like normal and just try again once it recharges.

[LOCOMOFO]

And yet the 100B+Frenzy+Bulls build is one of the weaker builds the warrior has.

Go figure.

[Sol1]

I find the GS to be useful for movement only and utilise other weapon sets for my damage.  Imo frenzy/ bull rush/ 100b is gimmiky and und only great in sPvP and it needs to be fixed.

I like the idea of a stationary 100b as it really makes you choose your moment to use it, however maybe adding stability to the move so that the only way to reduce the damage is to actually move away from it as oppoed to using a knockback on the warrior.  The other thing I like is adding a small chill effect so that it forces a player to blow a condition removal on that to get out of range.  This creates an intense situation (why I like 100 blades) without having it OP.

Imo the current GS mechanics need a good look at as I rarely see people use it for anything but 100b (with or without frenzy) or for movement.

Edit:  This of course means a reduction in damage of around 20% to coutner the increased effectiveness of the skill.

Edited by Sol1, 30 July 2012 - 04:23 AM.

[SuperDyu]

The issue is not with Hundred Blades.  You can deal with it many many different ways -

• Dodge roll
  
• CC the warrior (or ally knocking down or back the warrior mid swing)
  
• Move past the warrior
  
• Stability (see below)

The issue and reason why the Warriors are wrecking players with HB is due to Bull Rush.  Watching all the "omg look at how awesome I am" videos involving HB you will note they ALWAYS engage with Bullrush.

Bullrush is by far the strongest engagement skill in the entire game.

Considering warriors who have HB also have Rush, notice that no one ever uses it despite it being longer range than Bull Rush.  Ask yourself would you feel HB is broken if people rushed in from very far range, and the opponent wasn't knocked down?  Of course not, they can just hold the run backwards button and avoid the hits then.

HB needs no nerf, its Bull Rush that really needs changing.  If it was a Daze instead of a Knockdown it is still great to engage, but allows the players to deal with the follow ups the Warrior would use....  The other major gameplay element making it seem so powerful is players have no clue how to properly use stability yet. They rarely use it while going in to engage.

As for Frenzy + HB.... Cool, you have a 1 minute cannon. Hope you do something useful for the other 56 seconds   Again once the Fenzy goes off, knock him down, turn him into a Moa, Chill him, kick him back, roll away from him, basically do ANYTHING other than just sit there.

I look forwards to Warriors relying on this one trick pony so much, then run into a Guardian with protection, and retaliation.

[GuanglaiKangyi]

SuperDyu, on 30 July 2012 - 02:57 AM, said:

The issue is not with Hundred Blades.  You can deal with it many many different ways -

• Dodge roll
  
• CC the warrior (or ally knocking down or back the warrior mid swing)
  
• Move past the warrior
  
• Stability (see below)

The issue and reason why the Warriors are wrecking players with HB is due to Bull Rush.  Watching all the "omg look at how awesome I am" videos involving HB you will note they ALWAYS engage with Bullrush.

Bullrush is by far the strongest engagement skill in the entire game.

Considering warriors who have HB also have Rush, notice that no one ever uses it despite it being longer range than Bull Rush.  Ask yourself would you feel HB is broken if people rushed in from very far range, and the opponent wasn't knocked down?  Of course not, they can just hold the run backwards button and avoid the hits then.

HB needs no nerf, its Bull Rush that really needs changing.  If it was a Daze instead of a Knockdown it is still great to engage, but allows the players to deal with the follow ups the Warrior would use....  The other major gameplay element making it seem so powerful is players have no clue how to properly use stability yet. They rarely use it while going in to engage.

As for Frenzy + HB.... Cool, you have a 1 minute cannon. Hope you do something useful for the other 56 seconds   Again once the Fenzy goes off, knock him down, turn him into a Moa, Chill him, kick him back, roll away from him, basically do ANYTHING other than just sit there.

I look forwards to Warriors relying on this one trick pony so much, then run into a Guardian with protection, and retaliation.

Like I just said, you do your Frenzy/HB burst and then switch to your other weapon and fight normally.  Countering the Bull's Charge (because no warrior is going to Frenzy > HB untill they confirm the knockdown) ONLY counters the Bull's Charge; it doesn't shut the warrior down or anything.  He's still plenty capable of DPSing you down normally with any of his other weapon sets, then trying to burst you again later once the BC recharges.

[Enforcer]

Basically how I feel after reading all this nonsense post.

[Priince]

There is another side of this.  As people get used to avoiding the bursts, warriors can also become more skilled at faking out their enemies and landing the burst in other ways so that goes both directions.  Just because a warrior has more of a challenge with bursting doesn't mean its not viable in tPVP.   Especially when the warrior can sit back and wait for the enemy to burn a couple dodges and cool downs, then dive in and just start mowing.

I do like classes to have burst potential, and think its needed but as is, it seems like the HB combo build gives the highest burst potential in the game right now while still keeping a high HP pool. Warriors can basically one shot other DPS classes with ease and they have no worries of ever getting one shot from others due to the larger hp pool.

It's not the end all be all or even necessarily imba, but it could use some tweaks for sure.

Edited by PrinceCarnage, 30 July 2012 - 04:22 AM.

[lmaonade]

Zetesofos, on 29 July 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

At this point, I think the best way to balance it is to make HB the Burst ability for Greatsword.  For one, as a burst ability, it'll keep warriors from chaining HB and Evicerate (the real killer combo).  Secondly, as a burst skill, it should keep the problem of warriors using it as a first strike weapon.

I have no problem, really, with warriors using it during the fight - at that point, I should be paying attention, and deserve to get hit by it if not.

Agreed, 100 blades itself is not the real problem, it's a high damage ability that roots its user, fairly balanced in the type of game GW2 is. The killer is that it can easily be chained to ANOTHER high burst damage ability almost instantly, which is really over the top.

[Sol1]

lmaonade200, on 30 July 2012 - 04:41 AM, said:

Agreed, 100 blades itself is not the real problem, it's a high damage ability that roots its user, fairly balanced in the type of game GW2 is. The killer is that it can easily be chained to ANOTHER high burst damage ability almost instantly, which is really over the top.

This is definitely a problem as well, however if they reduced he damage of 100b and made it mobile or applied a snare/ chill, then that also alleviates the one-shot issue as there would be an inherent damage reduction due to the increased effectiveness.  Suddenly, you don't need frenzy in order for 100b to be effective AND it isn't OP as you don't need the damage to be so severe due to being more mobile and can land it more effectively.

Personally, I would like to see 100b revamped to be an Adrenaline ability that is like a wow rogues killing spree.  localised AE that can still be dodged but the warrior has stability for the duration at the cost of incoming damage inceased by 25%.  Then re-work the number 2 skill to be like the current adrenaline that grants might/fury.

This promotes smart play from both sides as using the elite at the wrong time means the enemy just dodges to safety and the opposing team can burn you down somewhat and conversely - using it at the right time can promote massive damage on top of a capture point or be used to burst down an opponent.

This also stops the 100b/ evis combo happening too.

Edited by Sol1, 30 July 2012 - 06:02 AM.

[StrayderGame]

i'm not sure did u play last BWE but in my opinion vs a bit experienced player u can;t do anything with that...since u can't move ,even if u stun him for short period u can't 1 shot as u presented in movie. I played as warrior and vs warrior with 2h sword (with this ability) not that OP as u talking ...however that is only my experience..

[Kormir]

Enforcer, on 30 July 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

Basically how I feel after reading all this nonsense post.

yeh me too

[crated]

If the HB build is so weak maybe they should just replace the damn skill with something more practical and less rage inducing, then no one has to hear about it anymore.

Maybe something that is still channeled, but with forward movement between strikes. But a huge recovery time if you miss. So no more complaints about the face roll. meh.

[Caladuz]

IMO, I can only see this being a hindrance to  a new player's development if arenanet decides to nerf 100 blades just because it is frustrating to deal with (to new players).

First, it will show new players that their problems will be solved by arenanet because they complain on the forums (I have no doubt that other "op" skills will crop up on the forums soon after a nerf) . And second, it puts them into a situation in which they do not have to learn to counter skills like 100 blades that are considered op in their particular bracket (which doesn't improve their play).

Personally, I believe that true skill at competitive pvp,  does not just come from how fast you can press a button. Instead, I feel some of it comes from your ability to learn to counter/adapt to a situation on the fly and to be able to go through decision-making processes on the spot.

tl:dr IMO Nerfing spells based on the frustration of new players does not improve their game and doesn't help them in the long run

[Moldran]

Caladuz, on 30 July 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

tl:dr IMO Nerfing spells based on the frustration of new players does not improve their game and doesn't help them in the long run

That's the thing where I disagree. It is important to get as many people as possible involved with PvP. One shot abilities like Hundred Blades in a GS/Frenzy Build are very unhealthy for the game in general, people will more than likely just see the big crits and oneshotting instead of the advanced play it takes to avoid the burst combo.
It is important for the game to grow and cater to as many players as possible, a game that has 1000 pros in PvP but no one else is not likely to become a good PvP game or even an esport.

On the other hand, I feel that the ability is too weak against competent players, because they can counter it easily and render the warrior useless. For example a necro can just use deathshroud into fear every time it is up.

So right now it's a lose-lose situation and it should be changed, because it's TOO frustrating to newcomers and TOO ineffective in high level play.

I think that this specific burst combo is the root of the problem of many "NERF" threads in the official beta forums. Frenzy has been nerfed mainly because of this burst combo, and there shouldn't be any further nerfs to general abilities just because of this one-shot build.
Frenzy used to be very fine in a rifle build, but the nerf which was directed at frenzy GS/hundred blades also affected other things unfortunately.

[Siric]

StrayderGame, on 30 July 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

i'm not sure did u play last BWE but in my opinion vs a bit experienced player u can;t do anything with that...since u can't move ,even if u stun him for short period u can't 1 shot as u presented in movie. I played as warrior and vs warrior with 2h sword (with this ability) not that OP as u talking ...however that is only my experience..

It's a problem not because 90% of the time a good player can handle it, but because 10% of a time a player can pull off a combo that requires little to no skill and have a drastic impact on the game. The bar needs re-balanced so that much less emphasis is put on a single skill and just ramping up that skills effectiveness through the utilities you bring (bulls + frenzy) thus making the bar more usable against good players and less effective for brainless 100blades spam.

Edited by Siric, 30 July 2012 - 12:08 PM.

[Sap Bro]

Umh frenzy is even stronger with a rifle since it affects the channeling time of kill shot. i've 2 shot 25k hp in about 3s at max range with volley and kill shot - glass canon thought.

[Sprawl]

Mr Goop, on 29 July 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Essentially yes, but what he's saying is it's too easy to counter by skilled players and too easy to overwhelm new players with it.

I dunno he catches SS with it sometimes, part of the issue is he needs to work on his own use of the skill rather than just blowing it in a big fight.  For example, vs the necro you can see if a necro has life force or not now with the double bar, Moldran does not seem to be aware that popping into death shroud is a counter, yet he continually tried using it on that necro when he clearly had life force available to counter. (or he is aware but just was hoping he'd get lucky? ) Had he waited for opportunities where the necro had blown his life force he could have 1 shotted his 19k health easily.  

Based on SS chat he also predictably popped frenzy at the same time which is why they would just focus him immediately due to him taking 50% more damage.

Edited by Sprawl, 30 July 2012 - 01:09 PM.

[Izkimar]

Moldran, on 29 July 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

That's the reason why it should be changed. Very annoying and frustrating for new players to the game, on the other hand, it can be countered without too much effort.

You are wrong on the hundred blades damage. They changed it after BWE1, since then, it's showing the accumulated amount of damage, not the damage for every single hit. So if the hundred blades ends with 10k, it doesn't mean that the last hit was 10k after 6k, 8k, 9k before, it means that the entire hundred blades did 10k damage (which is still a lot).

I think 100 Blades is perfectly fine.  Making it mobile would create new frustration for newer players, if you don't agree then listen to the drums of Guan Yu as he basically uses 100 Blades on your back in Smite.

It is not completely countered at high level play either, our Warrior Fredzw still runs it, I run it in a lot of builds too.  It is easy to cancel when you miss it, and the damage is worth the root, and adds more skill cap to setting it up.  However, Frenzy + 100 Blades is a bit trickier to pull off in higher level play, but it is still definitely good.  You just need to be very sneaky about it, you have to make sure you have that stun, you have to make sure you are in good positioning and the focus of the enemy is elsewhere.  It is really about smart timing and good positioning.

[zeo]

MikeFish, on 29 July 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

Can someone confirm this though for me. I THINK you can teleport with skills like blink or shadowstep even if you've been knocked down. Am I right?

I believe that to be correct as I used Lightening Reflexes to get out of a 100b combo several times. If a skill has a "Breaks Stun" function it will remove any skill that causes you to lose control of your char.

[Crowley]

If you think it's too easy to counter then you're not setting it up properly imo. When I ran Warrior last BWE I hit about 4 out of 5 of that skill, and it turned me off from Warriors completely because of the silly damage it did. Sure, people can avoid it when you do the most obvious cc and hit combo you can, but if you actually try to be a bit more sneaky about it, wait for some counter cc and all that, it's really not that hard to get hits on it. And especially in proper PvP situations (Not 1v1) it's really not that hard.

I just feel the "Too easy to counter" arguement is a silly way of trying to defend the insane damage it does. Damage needs to be lowered, no doubts about it really. And it's not harder to hit with Hundred Blades than it is with Blurred Frenzy for a Mesmer either, since they are basically the exact same type of attack. And the Mesmer is using a 1-handed sword so the range is lower.

But for the people that keep trying to defend the damage on this attack, don't you like Guild Wars 2? Don't you want the game to be a success? If so, then why are you trying to justify that you should have 1 skill on an 8 sec cooldown that basically takes away 50-75% of an enemy's hp? Do you really feel Guild Wars 2 benefits as a whole from you having this possiblity?

Don't know about you guys, but I want lots of people to play Guild Wars 2 and for the game to be a success. And in order for that to happen there must at least be some resemblance of proper balance, and currently this skill is actively working against achieving that. Complain all you want about having problems hitting with it, but that usually means you're simply being too obvious and using it as too much of a crutch to get a proper setup for it.

[Drakie]

Izkimar, on 30 July 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

I think 100 Blades is perfectly fine.

I too think that in higher level of play it seems a fair trade off that you need to do a lot of effort to get a high damage burst like that off.
However in casual play it's HORIBLE and a lot of the MOBA games are making this mistake too to keep skills balanced based on pro players!

You WILL loose players over having a skill that melts faces this bad, the only thing saving GW2 a bit from this is that you can easily play the class yourself.
Nonetheless this skill will dominate casual sPvP and probally create some *ed up meta around it because it's so damn easy to pull off high bursts with 100blades (and following with auto crit evis to make it even more painful) against casual players!

Edited by Drakie, 30 July 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[Matsy]

If you're caught without your stun brake off cooldown, your screwed and have to eat the damage and  you can't do anything to stop them.
That isn't exactly very good is it....

[Moldran]

Drakie, on 30 July 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

However in casual play it's HORIBLE and a lot of the MOBA games are making this mistake too to keep skills balanced based on pro players!

You WILL loose players over having a skill that melts faces this bad, the only thing saving GW2 a bit from this is that you can easily play the class yourself.

That's exactly what I mean by it being very frustrating for new players. There is a reason why LoL has the biggest playerbase out of the MOBA games and is probably the most successful MOBA esport. Other MOBAs are very catered to the actual progamers and professionals, putting emphasis on micromanagement and being complicated in general, but as a result they have less people playing it and following it (watching streams/tournaments etc).

Of course, balance must be achieved on the top level of play - however, I think this can be done without having abilities that are capable of one-shotting.

It is important to get as many people as possible involved with PvP. One shot abilities like Hundred Blades in a GS/Frenzy Build are very unhealthy for the game in general, people will more than likely just see the big crits and oneshotting instead of the advanced play it takes to avoid the burst combo.
It is important for the game to grow and cater to as many players as possible, a game that has 1000 pros in PvP but no one else playing it is not likely to become a good PvP game or even an esport.

Edited by Moldran, 30 July 2012 - 01:54 PM.