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Battle of the Elites. Spirit of Nature > Rampage as One. Vid inside

ranger spvp elite spirit of nature self res rampage as one

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#1 FITE

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 12:47 AM

M2C as to why Rampage as One is not as useful or powerful as Spirit of Nature if used correctly. Over the BWE3 weekend I played solidly my condition build ranger and my god I'm glad they nerfed the greatsword into the ground else I might not have found this side of the ranger class so soon.

Clearly these Elites are difficult to compare because in terms of utility they are used for completely different purposes, in different situations. I would say however that in SPvP a ranger correctly using this spirit with the resurrect function will be a much more powerful adversary and  a benefit to his party.

Below is a vid I showing a few of the times the self res has helped me. See the first 2 minutes of the video for the self resses.

Note: The self res is a last resort, however when pulled off you are healed to about 11k HP, removing all conditions including any CC. The scope for use in competitive PvP is just phenomenal and I believe that this elite will make a ranger a completely vital part of any structured team.



Edited by FITE, 07 August 2012 - 11:44 AM.


#2 The Mountain

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 12:50 AM

I hope this is not nerfed.

It is an Elite, and it deserves to be powerful.

#3 Ubenn

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 12:53 AM

It's actually really good once you run a good build along with it.

#4 FITE

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 12:57 AM

Yep, and the self res is just icing on the cake. They never expect it, im normally 20 metres away running before they even realise I insta rallied.

#5 Allarius

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:01 AM

FITE, when you cast it do you double hit '10' to activate the rez ability after the summon or is there some autocasting going on?

#6 Cellbuster

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:16 AM

How reliable is it to pop the self res if you don't have the spirit out?  I'm not currently ready to build around spirits that move with me and I tend to move alot.

#7 AndreBoogy

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:59 AM

Just so I understand what is going on in this video, you essentially expect that you are about to die, so you quickly summon your Elite to cast their rez ability. Timed right, you'll be dead just before the elite casts the skill.

That's pretty awesome. Especially if you're going for a support ranger build where spirits will be following you.

Quick question though, how reliable is this? I can see myself spamming the "0" button when really low hp, but lets say I'm like a second too late. Does the rez ability only activate the instance it stomps its foot, or is there like 1 second of leeway.

#8 TYphoon34

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 03:56 AM

brb changing my elite skill

This is neat, but it will take a lot of practice to get it perfect

My build actually has the spirits move with you function too, so I can preemptively use it I guess

#9 darkblue

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:45 AM

You don't have to cast the rez. If you take the trait for spirits to use their toggle on death the spirit will do it automatically because it will die when you get in down state if I remember correctly.

Edit : Nvm, it is when you get stomped.

Edited by darkblue, 30 July 2012 - 07:52 AM.


#10 FITE

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 09:52 AM

I could reliably time it probably 70% of the time. When you toggle the skill it actually casts the res about 2 seconds later, so you need to be put into downed state within these two seconds. It often happened so I popped the spirit and the res, and the heal ticks would keep me up an extra second or two meaning the res missed. If you are stunlocked and focusfired (as the more common case in the video) you have a much better chance of getting the timing right.

Honestly its not that difficult when you get used to it ;)

@Darkblue you do need to activate it, as far as I know that trait was spirits activated on their own death not the players? Might be wrong there, but I cannot trait down that line with the builds I have been using.

#11 Kevin5

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 03:45 PM

Damn that is pretty sweet!

#12 Quietnine

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 05:59 PM

as an elementalist, you can do this without using an elite or trying to time the cast, and on a much shorter cooldown. glyph of renewal, fire attunement.

#13 Helliion

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 06:03 PM

View PostQuietnine, on 30 July 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

as an elementalist, you can do this without using an elite or trying to time the cast, and on a much shorter cooldown. glyph of renewal, fire attunement.
Yeah? Glyph of Renewal only works AFTER you rez another person, so you can't do it on the fly.

#14 Quietnine

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 06:25 PM

View PostHelliion, on 30 July 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

Yeah? Glyph of Renewal only works AFTER you rez another person, so you can't do it on the fly.

wrong. you get the phoenix buff even if you fail to rally someone. bug? maybe. but considering the cooldown is still blown if you fail to save a friend, maybe not.

#15 Helliion

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 06:30 PM

View PostQuietnine, on 30 July 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

wrong. you get the phoenix buff even if you fail to rally someone. bug? maybe. but considering the cooldown is still blown if you fail to save a friend, maybe not.
Then the glyph is not working as intended as it does not follow its description.

#16 Quietnine

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:12 PM

that is entirely possible, though the wording doesnt really enforce that revival is a condition to gaining the buff ("and" statements vs "if-then"). I guess we'll see at launch. still seems like a good skill even if they change it though, not hard to find people in the downed state.

"Fire: Revive a target ally and grant yourself a passive buff that will revive you the next time you are downed."

#17 Lazmira

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 08:38 PM

View PostQuietnine, on 30 July 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

that is entirely possible, though the wording doesnt really enforce that revival is a condition to gaining the buff ("and" statements vs "if-then"). I guess we'll see at launch. still seems like a good skill even if they change it though, not hard to find people in the downed state.

"Fire: Revive a target ally and grant yourself a passive buff that will revive you the next time you are downed."

Wait why are we talking about elementals when this is about rangers? Both have completely different play styles so of course the skills won't be the same...

#18 Haku

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 10:06 PM

I believe you're wrong that the elite is vital to a structured team. Not only is it extremely inferior to Rampage as One, but you bring it anticipating that you're going to get wrecked in a fight. A good tournament team will use player backup as a means to prevent you from dying.

Rampage as one gives 20 seconds of stability. People who were deep in tourney pvp last BWE knew how important this buff was. You could run into the thick of battle or jump onto a point without having to worry about any kind of control ruining you. Even if it doesn't affect your team it is significantly useful for the roaming AND the bunker ranger.

I firmly believe that a tournament build without stun break or stability somewhere on the build or AoE stability on the team is a suicide mission.

#19 sergel02

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 10:27 PM

The video is worth an applause just for the music alone.

#20 Rolt

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 10:52 PM

View PostRolt, on 03 July 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

One thing about the Spirit of Nature-elit which is pretty amazing is that Nature's Renewal has a cast time or some other kind of delay. This means that if you press it ~0,5s before dieing, it'll ress you.

With full healing gear - it's passive AoE healing is also great.


Worked in BWE1/2 as well.

This, along with the HoT and most importantly, the ress of other(in cases multiple) team members makes this an amazing elite. Not having the spirits-moving-with-you-trait wont hinder this ability much I think as it will mostly be used for overtaking/defending a point, and the spirits range far exceeds the area of a cappoint.

#21 FITE

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 03:02 PM

View PostHaku, on 30 July 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

I believe you're wrong that the elite is vital to a structured team. Not only is it extremely inferior to Rampage as One, but you bring it anticipating that you're going to get wrecked in a fight. A good tournament team will use player backup as a means to prevent you from dying.

Rampage as one gives 20 seconds of stability. People who were deep in tourney pvp last BWE knew how important this buff was. You could run into the thick of battle or jump onto a point without having to worry about any kind of control ruining you. Even if it doesn't affect your team it is significantly useful for the roaming AND the bunker ranger.

I firmly believe that a tournament build without stun break or stability somewhere on the build or AoE stability on the team is a suicide mission.

Like I said in the OP, its very difficult because you use both skills in very different situations. We are comparing their utilities when they are "apples and oranges" so-to-speak. My point is that as a tool for group SPvP play, the ability to ressurrect downed allies/self res along with utterly insanely high healing will undoubtedly offer more benefits to the team.

In SPvP ressing a downed ally is hugely important, especially in 5v5. Saving your team 5 points and keeping the fight even. Self res is going to hold your enemies up, save your team 5 points, or even turn the fight your way with the 11k heal allowing you to win the fight and gain 5 points.


You clearly play a cookie cutter GS/? build that is focussed on assist trains and burst damage. Rampage as one is obviously going to fit your playstyle better in certain situations, but pretty much any ranger spec that isnt going to be 100% pigeon-holing for raw mdps is going to provide a much better group benefit with the spirit ranger if they properly utilise the spirit.

Burst damage is not the be-all and end-all of a powerful dps build. I accept your point about the stability but I would sacrifice that in a heartbeat for the healing potential of the spirit. There are other sources of stability available, and a ranger isnt at a huge disadvantage without it especially if you arent heavily melee focused.

#22 Haku

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 05:01 PM

View PostFITE, on 31 July 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Like I said in the OP, its very difficult because you use both skills in very different situations. We are comparing their utilities when they are "apples and oranges" so-to-speak. My point is that as a tool for group SPvP play, the ability to ressurrect downed allies/self res along with utterly insanely high healing will undoubtedly offer more benefits to the team.

In SPvP ressing a downed ally is hugely important, especially in 5v5. Saving your team 5 points and keeping the fight even. Self res is going to hold your enemies up, save your team 5 points, or even turn the fight your way with the 11k heal allowing you to win the fight and gain 5 points.


You clearly play a cookie cutter GS/? build that is focussed on assist trains and burst damage. Rampage as one is obviously going to fit your playstyle better in certain situations, but pretty much any ranger spec that isnt going to be 100% pigeon-holing for raw mdps is going to provide a much better group benefit with the spirit ranger if they properly utilise the spirit.

Burst damage is not the be-all and end-all of a powerful dps build. I accept your point about the stability but I would sacrifice that in a heartbeat for the healing potential of the spirit. There are other sources of stability available, and a ranger isnt at a huge disadvantage without it especially if you arent heavily melee focused.
My build was aimed at being one of the roamers on the map to assist people who needed help at points. I did something like 43 tournaments and only lost 3 last BWE. I can tell you 100% that 5v5s do not happen in tournament play unless people are overly committing to the enemy keep lord and even then it's unlikely.

I saw the root elite get used last BWE by rangers that weren't running the spirit spam build. I think bringing a root that will guarantee the death of an enemy if you're using voice chat is significantly better than a pet that relies on you and your team being subpar to use it's function. You don't need the spirit if you're roaming whatsoever. If you're bunkering, you plan to encounter enemies(possibly multiple) alone and could use any resource for survival until someone arrives to even the odds.

I believe the pet is totally viable in non tourney pvp, and can be used in any situation there.

#23 Nettle

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 05:59 PM

View PostHaku, on 30 July 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

I believe you're wrong that the elite is vital to a structured team. Not only is it extremely inferior to Rampage as One, but you bring it anticipating that you're going to get wrecked in a fight. A good tournament team will use player backup as a means to prevent you from dying.

Rampage as one gives 20 seconds of stability. People who were deep in tourney pvp last BWE knew how important this buff was. You could run into the thick of battle or jump onto a point without having to worry about any kind of control ruining you. Even if it doesn't affect your team it is significantly useful for the roaming AND the bunker ranger.

I firmly believe that a tournament build without stun break or stability somewhere on the build or AoE stability on the team is a suicide mission.

I have to disagree with your statement of the spirit elite being "extremely inferior" to RaO in tourney play, though I may not have before the end of BWE3.  I do agree with the need of stun break, especially with the absolute glut of bull rush warriors and the like.  Stability is very nice to have but not quite as crucial IMO.

I'm not sure you grasp how big of a play reviving a downed teammate is in fights even as small as 2v2.  And you don't need to be getting wrecked to make use of this, as it's even more vital if the fight is close.  Something like a 3v3 with one player on each side downed or close to was not rare in the least between good teams.  A revival can help swing it from a 2v3 disadvantage to a 3v2 advantage, eventually winning you the the fight, the 15 points for the kills, and ultimately swinging the match in your favor with the CP or treb kill.  Team fights are a deciding factor in tourney play.  They aren't even rare, even as a roamer, especially in foefire.

#24 FITE

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 07:01 PM

View PostHaku, on 31 July 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

My build was aimed at being one of the roamers on the map to assist people who needed help at points. I did something like 43 tournaments and only lost 3 last BWE. I can tell you 100% that 5v5s do not happen in tournament play unless people are overly committing to the enemy keep lord and even then it's unlikely.

I saw the root elite get used last BWE by rangers that weren't running the spirit spam build. I think bringing a root that will guarantee the death of an enemy if you're using voice chat is significantly better than a pet that relies on you and your team being subpar to use it's function. You don't need the spirit if you're roaming whatsoever. If you're bunkering, you plan to encounter enemies(possibly multiple) alone and could use any resource for survival until someone arrives to even the odds.

I believe the pet is totally viable in non tourney pvp, and can be used in any situation there.

You are making it sound that if you are ever in a situation where the odds are against you in SPvP then you are on a subpar team.
You say you can only use it when "getting wrecked", you will die in SPvP, you will get caught 2v1, 3v1 even. The Spirit Elite will get you out of that situation allowing you to escape, save those points and not leave your team a man down.

Haku I was undefeated in Tournament play, granted I didnt play as many games as you and only played in a team for 1 night of the BWE but I was 14 for 14 overall. As nettle says, the rally function is what pushes this spirit forward and it can be THE play that can completely turn fights around.

Rampage has zero group utility. In terms of defence, stability is as far as it goes. Lightning reflexes followed up by shortbow cc and evade makes a much better stunbreak and counter to a warrior bullrush combo. The heals from the spirit are huge, not withstanding the rally function. Like I said if your build does not rely on heavy frontload burst damage then Rampage is by far the inferior Elite when comparing the two.

I might be missing something but how does the root elite guarantee a death? Do you mean if they use it on players that are already downed? The roots are very easy to destroy, from using it Ive found it the least useful elite of the three.

It really doesnt sound like you have given much thought on using the spirit, or tried to get good at timing the resurrects.

#25 Haku

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 07:33 PM

View PostFITE, on 31 July 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

You are making it sound that if you are ever in a situation where the odds are against you in SPvP then you are on a subpar team.
You say you can only use it when "getting wrecked", you will die in SPvP, you will get caught 2v1, 3v1 even. The Spirit Elite will get you out of that situation allowing you to escape, save those points and not leave your team a man down.

Haku I was undefeated in Tournament play, granted I didnt play as many games as you and only played in a team for 1 night of the BWE but I was 14 for 14 overall. As nettle says, the rally function is what pushes this spirit forward and it can be THE play that can completely turn fights around.

Rampage has zero group utility. In terms of defence, stability is as far as it goes. Lightning reflexes followed up by shortbow cc and evade makes a much better stunbreak and counter to a warrior bullrush combo. The heals from the spirit are huge, not withstanding the rally function. Like I said if your build does not rely on heavy frontload burst damage then Rampage is by far the inferior Elite when comparing the two.

I might be missing something but how does the root elite guarantee a death? Do you mean if they use it on players that are already downed? The roots are very easy to destroy, from using it Ive found it the least useful elite of the three.

It really doesnt sound like you have given much thought on using the spirit, or tried to get good at timing the resurrects.
Clearly we play in two different metas. What I mean by root guaranteeing a kill is... If you're together with another person(especially a warrior, who suffers most from dodging and movement), and you root the enemy and unload on him simultaneously.. He will NOT have time to break the root before he dies. A roaming spec is glass cannon or near that. Survivability is not needed as it was made to assist others in clearing points. Rampage is the absolute best for that because you come onto a point unstoppable. The only thing that could possibly stop you is raw damage. The enemy was not expecting you and you have 1 other person there, he needs only to breathe on the person you're targeting to change the battle significantly. The only factors in that situation is how long can your teammate on the point survive before you or another roamer can get there.

There are different team makeups, and I understand that the spirit elite has it's uses on certain teams. For a bunker build it would be extremely useful, but outside of that and the spirit spam team, I don't think it would be taken as the other two elites have some extremely good uses

#26 FITE

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 08:11 PM

Aye agreed, different roles, different elites. I would thoroughly recommend trying out the spirit if you ever take up a more supportive or condition based role in a party.

I see what you mean about the root + kill. Im assuming the ranger root elite isnt affected by stability?

#27 Haku

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Posted 31 July 2012 - 08:27 PM

View PostFITE, on 31 July 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Aye agreed, different roles, different elites. I would thoroughly recommend trying out the spirit if you ever take up a more supportive or condition based role in a party.

I see what you mean about the root + kill. Im assuming the ranger root elite isnt affected by stability?
They have to destroy it to get rid of it. I noticed this last BWE people were NOT prepared for that. Also not many skills actually remove immobilize. I can see teams where there'll be multiple rangers of some unseen cheese spec who just root someone in place and proceed to upon up a franchise on some poor person.

After playing some teams like Team Legacy and Team SS I can't go without Stability. I take the trait that lets me benefit from signets that benefit pets, the signet that gives 10 secs of stability and increased dmg, AND RaO. This allows me to run on a point and "take care of business" without some stupid bunker engi or massive knockback guardian having say otherwise. My team is not one that will be running 3 bunkers and 2 floaters, but rather more of a rotation team, meaning at some point I will have to sit on a point myself for anywhere between 30 secs to a minute or so. And just having a greatsword and stability was more than enough for me to survive until someone showed up.

#28 FITE

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:43 AM


Here is a 15 minute continuation video showing my BWE3 Condition Build ranger. Mixture of SPvP and Hot-Join. Mostly 1v1 and 1v2 along with some cheeky self res action. The video took ages to get online due to copyright issues on one of the tracks playing in the clip, however this is sorted at long last. ENJOY!

http://www.gw2build.....0.10.20.30.5.5



#29 Umie

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 07:19 PM

in this video you basically demonstrated that most of the time, you dont need the elite. in which case, RaO is vastly superior for its mobility and dps buffs. and you can cast it more often.

#30 addis

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 08:56 PM

awesome




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