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Death shroud questions


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#1 blinkompot

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 03:51 AM

If I stack a lot of toughness, will I take less damage in death shroud / lose life force slower ?
Does toughness work with lich form?

Another question regarding Reaper's Might trait: is the might bonus added only a single time after I use life blast or does it add up for every life blast, meaning that it can be stacked?

#2 Sep

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 03:56 AM

it can be stacked, lasts long enough to get about 10 stacks I think

#3 blinkompot

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 04:14 AM

Thanks for the reply Sep. Do you know anything about the effect of toughness on death shroud or lich form?
I understand that power and precision increase both damage and crit chance of life blast (ds) and deathly claws (lich)
but I haven't figured out if toughness makes life easier in these forms.

#4 Sep

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 04:27 AM

Never bothered to test it, I dislike trying to judge damage taken in DS form for whatever reason so I leave that testing to those more inclined.

It should definitely in lich form, and sense would say DS as well. Sense doesn't always win out however.

I do know I got a lot more traction out of DS from my high Vit builds than I did from my high toughness builds. There was a significant difference between the two.

Edited by Sep, 30 July 2012 - 04:28 AM.


#5 blinkompot

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 10:00 AM

It is kind of annoying that arena net doesn't provide clear information about many traits and abilities.
Testing can be fun and all, but why not make our life easier by providing exact numbers and descriptions?

They could have easily stated in the death shroud icon if the form was affected by toughness or not.

Same thing with the traits- many icons still lack exact numbers/ranges/effects. It even makes testing inefficient because
whatever we find out, may not be how arena net intended to design it. By not providing us with information, they prolong the
existence of bugs and misconceptions.

#6 Egoist

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:11 AM

I believe that toughness will reduce the damage you take while in death shroud as ds does not simply remove your armour from the equation. However the effect of that mitigation seems to be minor.

I also had a similar experience to sep, i found that a vitality spec makes ds feel less squishy than a toughness spec. I think this is due to the ds hp bar being tied to a % of your base hp and the fact that toughness doesn't seem to scale that well at the moment.

Edited by Egoist, 30 July 2012 - 11:11 AM.


#7 blinkompot

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:39 AM

Thanks for the insight Egoist, but I'm wondering: is this confirmed and tested that the ds hp bar is tied to a % of base hp?
If it's truly so, then I see no reason to prefer toughness over vitality for death shroud builds.
I know that hp bar in lich form is certainly tied to your real hp bar, but never heard or noticed it about death shroud.

Edited by blinkompot, 30 July 2012 - 11:40 AM.


#8 Egoist

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:49 AM

Someone posted some info from testi g he had done, the testing wasn't conclusive or in depth but it meshed with the experiences people had. The best estimate was the da bar being around 75% of your hp pool but it does need proper testing for us to be certain.

#9 blinkompot

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:55 AM

View PostEgoist, on 30 July 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Someone posted some info from testi g he had done, the testing wasn't conclusive or in depth but it meshed with the experiences people had. The best estimate was the da bar being around 75% of your hp pool but it does need proper testing for us to be certain.

Was this tested before or after the death shroud nerf? (BWE2 or BWE3)

#10 Egoist

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 02:17 PM

This was done in bwe3, prior to that ds was 100% of your hp.

#11 blinkompot

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 04:59 PM

View PostEgoist, on 30 July 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

This was done in bwe3, prior to that ds was 100% of your hp.
During bwe3 I felt like my life force bar lasted 40-50% less than bwe2. If it's actually down to 75% from 100 then it's not so bad.
I guess the change is here to stay, I have no doubt that necro will be buffed in other aspects, but never again will arena net return
death shroud to being 100% of your hp.

#12 frags

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 06:59 PM

That may be in our favor, live with a 25% reduction to DS HP and gain buffs in other areas such as with build viability and traits.

#13 Marooned

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:43 PM

View Postfrags, on 30 July 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

That may be in our favor, live with a 25% reduction to DS HP and gain buffs in other areas such as with build viability and traits.

I hope so, all I want is more variability for builds

#14 mmimzie

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 07:46 PM

I'll also add this. Toughness and armor work additively so 1 point of toughness is like one point of armor. Most armor will give you WAY more armor than toughness, thus its not really worth stacking.

#15 blinkompot

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 08:35 PM

View Postmmimzie, on 30 July 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

I'll also add this. Toughness and armor work additively so 1 point of toughness is like one point of armor. Most armor will give you WAY more armor than toughness, thus its not really worth stacking.
I don't know how toughness works for Death shroud but it is very useful outside.
I've read on reddit that after testing the effect of toughness on direct damage reduction, they came to a conclusion
that 100 toughness=34 less damage for every 1000 damage.
In pvp you can stack almost 700 toughness with necklace and gems, without sacrificing other important stats for your build.

34*7=238. 238 damage reduction for every 1000 is huge. It's like giving yourself an unlimited protection boon that reduces all incoming damage by 23.8 % (some 10% lower than the actual protection boon).

It doesn't affect condition damage though.

#16 mmimzie

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:30 PM

View Postblinkompot, on 30 July 2012 - 08:35 PM, said:

I don't know how toughness works for Death shroud but it is very useful outside.
I've read on reddit that after testing the effect of toughness on direct damage reduction, they came to a conclusion
that 100 toughness=34 less damage for every 1000 damage.
In pvp you can stack almost 700 toughness with necklace and gems, without sacrificing other important stats for your build.

34*7=238. 238 damage reduction for every 1000 is huge. It's like giving yourself an unlimited protection boon that reduces all incoming damage by 23.8 % (some 10% lower than the actual protection boon).

It doesn't affect condition damage though.

Well seeing as how the game tells you that armor and toughness are effective 1 to 1. And you get WAY more armor than you get toughness per piece of armor. This makes armor and a stronger stat. Seeing as how DS does get stronger with vit and deathshroud is filled by % based abilities, one could farely conclude that Vit would be a stronger stat than toughness for necros looking for longevity.

#17 Sep

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Posted 30 July 2012 - 11:32 PM

That's a debatable topic, and isn't really a straightforward answer. Highly depends on the playstyle you're shooting for.

For myself toughness is good for to stack because we have such a high base vitality, so we can take 2k toughness and have 3k armor while sitting on 20k hp. Our DS form isn't as durable in that scenario, but since the last BWE I no longer rely on my DS for much beyond quick timebuys and the #3-4.

Edited by Sep, 30 July 2012 - 11:35 PM.


#18 dnoisette

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 02:48 PM

I do not mean to go off topic but I have some questions regarding death shroud and I figured it would be most appropriated to post in this thread rather than to create another one. I seem to remember that I read somewhere about death shroud breaking stun or hard cc (aka you can hit F1 and go into death shroud even when stunned or knockdowned). Is that true? If so, does it have to be traited to apply this effect or does death shroud always have this amazing feature? I also have a couple more questions: I am under the impression that your character moves slower while in death shroud. Can someone confirm if that is really the case? And finally, can you dodge roll while in death shroud? Thanks guys!

Edited by dnoisette, 01 August 2012 - 03:38 PM.


#19 Sep

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 04:25 PM

Deathshroud breaks stun, same movement speed, can dodgerolll (but can't see your energy level)

#20 dnoisette

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Posted 01 August 2012 - 05:04 PM

Concise and effective, thank you very much! :D




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