131 replies to this topic

[Woundedthorn]

Phuriocity, on 30 July 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

And Pipples, you need to understand that these attacks are the result of seeing the same exact complaint thread 50 times over.

These aren't questions. These are complaints. Questions are answered with a smile and a pat on the back. Complaints are bludgeoned into the ground because many of us feel there's no other avenue to resort to after so many times having to deal with it.

There is no call to be condescending and patronizing.

If you have been here for a couple of years, of course you are going to see repetitive questions, discussions, and comments.  Complaints as well.  You seem to be lumping others questions and comments into the complaint department, but that's your perogative and doesn't take away from their validity.  However, if you have seen them "50 times over", rather than take an aggressive , attacking approach, how about not saying anything?  Contributing to a negative culture only hurts the community and, ultimately, the success of GW2 as people will be less inclined to be part of, and subjected to, hostility.

[Phuriocity]

Woundedthorn, on 31 July 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

There is no call to be condescending and patronizing.

If you have been here for a couple of years, of course you are going to see repetitive questions, discussions, and comments.  Complaints as well.  You seem to be lumping others questions and comments into the complaint department, but that's your perogative and doesn't take away from their validity.  However, if you have seen them "50 times over", rather than take an aggressive , attacking approach, how about not saying anything?  Contributing to a negative culture only hurts the community and, ultimately, the success of GW2 as people will be less inclined to be part of, and subjected to, hostility.

I personally haven't been here that long. I've been here since the last Beta weekend, and I have personally seen many of these complaints many times over myself.

And you can't say it's simply my perogative what is a question and what is a complain when many of the threads in question are directly POSED as a complaint with no sort of question about the system at hand involved.

-MOST- of the people who get "attacked" aren't asking about the current system. They are saying how the current system should change to reflect a system they like more. You can call this a "suggestion," but most of these suggestions are more complaint than suggestion, or a suggestion that goes against what appears to be a fundamental game idea.

I have helpfully answered many actual questions. I LOVE being helpful. I provide anyone with any information they ask for.

I have also seriously berated many posters, and their ideas, as they appear to be ideas that go against the feel of the game much of the community and Anet are trying to provide, yet despite MANY people calmly trying to show them the other side of the argument, including myself, they refuse to listen and continue to parrot their opinion, whether or not it is well received.

As you can see, the majority of posters here do NOT agree with this topic. Once 10 people voice the same opinion, the next 10 are going to be frustrated they actually have to say the same thing, since it has already been said.

EDIT: And saying nothing results in a topic that appears heavily one-sided when it isn't, which could possibly result in changes being made that a majority of the community doesn't agree with.

You have to understand that this hostility is coming from people who have seen games like WoW consistently go down-hill over time, people who don't want the same to happen to GW2.

Edited by Phuriocity, 31 July 2012 - 12:28 AM.

[Pipples]

Woundedthorn, on 30 July 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

I see questions being asked by new forum members all the time being quickly shot down by more than one person.  Not only are they dismissed, but they are attacked

It's the community's fault, as a whole. I say this because pre-WoW people were either civil or suffered repercussions. The top 2 MMOs back then were UO and EQ1. In UO, if you peeved people off they'd flat-out kill you. In EQ1 you'd get blacklisted and, if enough people did so, your game was shot. Soloing in that game was two steps from impossible endgame and after GoD dropped

WoW showed up, more people got into gaming and the community became more tolerant of bad behavior. Not it's the norm, and returning to the old ways of dealing with it is next to impossible

It's not unlike society in the US. People are nastier, more vocal and many lack any sort of real manners. This is because people became too accepting of the bad behavior and it spread. When I was a kid if I mouthed off I'd get a slap to the head, a belt to my &%$ or something else. Now many (but not all) parents are afraid to discipline their kids

Phuriocity, on 30 July 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

And Pipples, you need to understand that these attacks are the result of seeing the same exact complaint thread 50 times over.

These aren't questions. These are complaints. Questions are answered with a smile and a pat on the back. Complaints are bludgeoned into the ground because many of us feel there's no other avenue to resort to after so many times having to deal with it.

You quoted Woundedthorn but referenced me?

[Phuriocity]

Pipples, on 31 July 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

You quoted Woundedthorn but referenced me?

Apologies, I realized after the fact. I'm not sure how I made that mistake to be quite honest. =X

EDIT: Maybe I just like saying "Pipples."

Edited by Phuriocity, 31 July 2012 - 12:35 AM.

[Sonoris]

Man this seems to have gotten off topic...

Anyway, while the map idea seems good, it could potentially give those who use the map to find DE's an advantage in completing them more often and they'd get more exp/gold/karma from them at a faster pace than those who played without.
You can claim that's the person's choice to use or not to use but for those who would not use it may feel a little... displeased, that the way they want to play is punishing them in terms of keeping up with others.

That's ok when it comes to stuff like people who play 12 hours a day vs people who play more casually, but when it's a built in game mechanic that unbalances things it's not great.

IF they implemented such an idea, they might have to consider lowering quest rewards for people who have all DE's shown on the map.

Edited by Sonoris, 31 July 2012 - 12:36 AM.

[Woundedthorn]

Phuriocity, on 31 July 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

I personally haven't been here that long. I've been here since the last Beta weekend, and I have personally seen many of these complaints many times over myself.

And you can't say it's simply my perogative what is a question and what is a complain when many of the threads in question are directly POSED as a complaint with no sort of question about the system at hand involved.

We're still in Beta here.  Devs read these forums.  Complaints, discussions and questions can, and have, lead to change.  Many things have changed since the first Beta event.  There is stil about a month left.  Shutting off criticisms and discussion with group attacks isn't constructive.

-MOST- of the people who get "attacked" aren't asking about the current system. They are saying how the current system should change to reflect a system they like more. You can call this a "suggestion," but most of these suggestions are more complaint than suggestion, or a suggestion that goes against what appears to be a fundamental game idea.

Not entirely true, but I don't expect you (or I) to cite threads.  Generally, unless its the veteran members here, people get shot down and/or swarmed.

I have helpfully answered many actual questions. I LOVE being helpful. I provide anyone with any information they ask for.

I have also seriously berated many posters, and their ideas, as they appear to be ideas that go against the feel of the game much of the community and Anet are trying to provide, yet despite MANY people calmly trying to show them the other side of the argument, including myself, they refuse to listen and continue to parrot their opinion, whether or not it is well received.

Two takes on this.  Yes, there are trolls.  Let's put those aside.  The other side goes back to the pack mentality.  If someone has an opinion, and defends it despite opposition, does that mean they need to be beaten relentlessly into the ground by the masses?  10 people ganging up on 1 does not mean the larger mass is correct; it means they have a common goal to beat down the interloper.

As you can see, the majority of posters here do NOT agree with this topic. Once 10 people voice the same opinion, the next 10 are going to be frustrated they actually have to say the same thing, since it has already been said.

See above point on group mentality.

EDIT: And saying nothing results in a topic that appears heavily one-sided when it isn't, which could possibly result in changes being made that a majority of the community doesn't agree with.

I didn't say "say nothing".  I said, when faced with the choice of attacking and adding to a negative environment, then saying nothing would be a better choice.  

You have to understand that this hostility is coming from people who have seen games like WoW consistently go down-hill over time, people who don't want the same to happen to GW2.

I've been gaming since the 70's.  Yes, I played Pong.  I've also been onboard EQ1 and other MMO's since then.  I do know how things have evolved, and, perhaps in the last couple of years, devolved into a (too?) much more accessible-for-the-masses state.  I get what GW2 is trying to do and I embrace it.  I also get that there has been a large amount of dissatisfaction and frustration from the old-school players (me included) and those newer players who just want a return to challenge, adventure, exploration, and playing smartly.  I understand and I'm there with you.

Let us not close ranks and be an elitist community!  In trying to preserve what GW2 has created, a culture of intolerance has been born.  This is what I do not like.  The aggressive, elitist position does not help the community.

[Drokk]

Sleepyx732, on 30 July 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Shall I be the first to say..

"Please, no more hand holding."

??

Indeed. I wish there was even less 'direction'. For people who need it, there's scouts.

[Asudementio]

Hand holding isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it should not be designed intrusively. Let the tools to guide players through even the simplest tasks exist, but do not force them down the throats of the more independent and more perceptive playerbase.

[Phuriocity]

Woundedthorn, on 31 July 2012 - 02:07 AM, said:

*snip*

I can't argue with on the last point. You should probably check out guildwars2forums.com, it's a much more respectable and welcoming community.

However, I really want to stress that there is a big difference on how people are treated between questions and complaints. I'd also like to point out, and point towards either the "Ways to Improve GW2 LFG tool" thread or the "lack of experience" thread, that many of these threads have started with the people "asking the question," or more appropriately voicing their complaint, attacking the "GW2 Fanboys" who don't want the game to change.

Both sides are equally as guilty of a poor attitude.

EDIT: Also, I think it's important to note that the majority of threads where this "attitude" is an issue, the general consensus is overwhelmingly for the current GW2 system, in every case that I've seen personally. The attitude comes into play when the people making the suggestion call the people saying the system should stay the same "selfish," because "they're not keeping the best interest of the majority of the player-base in mind." Or they call them "fanboys," and say "they can't see the flaws in the system because of their blind loyalty."

Edited by Phuriocity, 31 July 2012 - 02:17 AM.

[Teste]

Woundedthorn, on 30 July 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

So also is the expectation to come to public, community forums and expect the same.  This community has, overall, been quite hostile with the general attitude of "if you don't like it, leave".  This is extremely discouraging to new players.

Not really. It's discouraging to players who are looking at GW2 seeking an entirely different kind of game. Since GW2 is the next big MMO to be released, we have hordes of people coming here believing it will be one more WoW clone; and when they ask for the features seen in other WoW clones, the most obvious answer is, "This isn't that kind of MMO; if that's what you want, there are many other MMOs better suited to you out there". Which is simply the truth.

Don't try to hide that mentality under the guise of "new players". IMO, it's much more arrogant to state "poor new players, so stupid, they won't ever be capable of learning those mechanics - that I happen to have understood very well, thank you - so they need someone to hold their hands". GW2 isn't exactly nuclear physics, those who are new to the game will be able to understand it well enough without the kind of game-ruining feature the OP here has been asking for.

[sty0pa]

Drokk, on 31 July 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

Indeed. I wish there was even less 'direction'. For people who need it, there's scouts.

Someone mentioned to me that you could turn off ALL minimap icons.
DEFINITELY playing that way for at least my first toon.  I want to be in the world, not playing a game at my desk, as much as possible.

[Sethius]

I wish the game was harder, more challenging, took much longer to level, and less of a hand-holding experience. So it's a no from me