131 replies to this topic

[Tregarde]

I don't think showing all active DE's in a zone is necessary. But I do think there could be some sort of indicator when you get near enough to see the "event nearby" swipe across your screen. There have been many times during BWEs I saw it, then looked down at my mini map, even pulled up my full map, and couldn't find any yellow-orange markers or circles to tell me exactly what direction to go. And sometimes just continuing in the direction I was going I must have run past the DE.

[MikeFish]

I think this issue solves itself. When people don't know what to do or are underleveled, they will explore or ask someone what they're supposed to do.

Besides, there are hundreds of tooltips explaining things that can be done if people actually bother to read them. One Asura in the Asuran starter area even told me that if I hung around at the end of events then other stuff might start to happen and if I rushed off too quickly I'd miss things. They can't get much clearer than that and yet I wonder how many people actually noticed that...

We've been conditioned by other games not to bother reading stuff or paying attention to the details because the next thing you had to do was always marked with a big !

People will adapt to the new.

Edited by MikeFish, 31 July 2012 - 03:04 PM.

[Pipples]

Sleepyx732, on 30 July 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Shall I be the first to say..

"Please, no more hand holding."

??

This

A problem many, if not most, MMOs are having is the designers and developers work hard on the game and a large chunk of it goes unseen. I can't tell you how few people knew the Aquilonian crypt from Conan the barbarian was in the badlands in WoW...

I think we SHOULD be made to explore

[Sevens]

Wasnt meaning to lecture, just saying the whole "not holding your hand" concept is as old as EQ1

[Vahkris]

According to a GDC panel early on, they actually tried just showing all the events in the map at first, but found players didn't like it when they saw an event far away but couldn't get there in time, so they only show nearby events you were far more likely to get to in time.

majoho, on 30 July 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

No need to lecture me, I'm an oldschool RPG gamer - but really GW2 isn't even like oldschool RPG or EQ, talking to random people won't really do anything so your comparison is poor.

As I said I'm fine with the way it is, and as with anything new it's just a matter of getting used to it.

Talking to random people actually does help.  I was pointed to several active events just by talking to NPCs in the starter areas, even some well outside normal range.  A few of these events were some that had started but had no players around.

Events have far more in common with those old MMOs like EQ1 than people think.  Paying attention to NPCs and talking to them are far more beneficial than many believe.

Tregarde, on 30 July 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

I don't think showing all active DE's in a zone is necessary. But I do think there could be some sort of indicator when you get near enough to see the "event nearby" swipe across your screen. There have been many times during BWEs I saw it, then looked down at my mini map, even pulled up my full map, and couldn't find any yellow-orange markers or circles to tell me exactly what direction to go. And sometimes just continuing in the direction I was going I must have run past the DE.

When you see the "New Event Nearby" statement, there should already be something on your map, and the event tag/notice/whatever people are trying to call it should already be on the upper-right of your screen.  Anything else is a bug.

[Eldaran]

I started playing MMO's with Everquest in 1999 and there was no map at all. you had to explore and learn the lay of the land or find a friend who knew how to get places. What A-net has in the game now is just enough for more modern mmo players to have a general sense of direction without spoiling the journey. Learn to explore a little and enjoy the game for what it is.

[Milennin]

Renown Hearts were added to give more direction to players in the game. I feel there is enough direction... it's really not hard. If you feel lost, just look up heart icons on the map. Visit skill challenges or points of interest.

[tibbles777]

Metaditon Orions, on 30 July 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

Oh look its a new member to the forums

Kid yes you are a kid.

It will NEVER happen, you rely too much on the game. Grow up and explore the game for yourself stop letting the game show you whats where.

I feel like the game has sometimes bit too much direction in the bits of beta we've played.

I'm not a kid.. i'm 21 thank you. And I wasn't saying that I personally want it myself, I just think it's a possible solution for some people... I wasn;t expecting this thread to get out of hand, I was asking for opinions, not bashing me for creating the thread.. Thank you everyone who has added constructive feedback though.

[Aarcho]

majoho, on 30 July 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

I must admit I do feel a lack of direction at times, but I'm sure it's just because this is a new concept we will get used to it soon enough.

I feel that way about a lot of aspects of GW2. And I like it. I've said before that I think in a variety of ways, that GW2 is a reset button for the genre. And it's about time we were all exected to learn new skills, and adapt to a different method. Of course, while playing I felt a little lost, but for me personally, I find this all the more immersive and enjoyable.

Edited by Aarcho, 30 July 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[Segraine]

The Renown Hearts are already a good direction. Most DE's happen in their area.  I come from the old gaming generation where we had next to no direction. Castlevania 2 for example. So GW2 still has a little too much direction for some of us

You just need to give it some time. Wander over to a Heart on the map and hang out for a bit. Also hang around after a DE. There are usually more.

[Zero_Soulreaver]

I dunno but for me it's more fun to explore than it is to be lead around with the game holding your hand everywhere.  It's funny because their are many games that get praise for being "open world" yet they aren't open world at all, when a game that has more freedom options comes people get scared.

Honestly, it's not that hard to find a set path in GW2 if you are looking for some type of guidance.  Yeah you have choice, but you can choose not to explore as much and stay in one area that leads you to the next and so on.

[Manoa]

Considering the number "I'm so underleveled/I can't keep up with my personal story/I'm not getting enough XP" posts that pop up, I do think something could be added to the game to help train players a bit better and bridge the gap between the checklist mentality to the explorer mentality.  The renown hearts are a good start, but there isn't much to guide folks to the next step and some folks are just not getting it.  But I'm not too keen on the OP's suggestion of adding all DEs to the map, as it is just swinging the pendulum too far in the handholding direction and doesn't teach new players how to play the game (instead, it'll just end up perpetuating the checklist mentality).  

It doesn't have to be big and doesn't need to be much.  Just enough to nudge those struggling players in the right direction.  Perhaps a warning or something?  Like when the player hits a certain level (like 5 or 10) and they haven't gotten enough of their XP from DEs, something pops up saying "Hey, don't forget about this thing called Dynamic Events!  You find them by exploring and they're the best way to gain experience!  There's one near you!" to help guide the player in the right direction.  Something similar could be done for the other methods of accruing XP (like gathering).  Then those who need the help get it and those who already know the system and are doing things right aren't bothered.

Edited by Manoa, 30 July 2012 - 04:02 PM.

[OdinWalhalla]

Another one of these stupid threads:

1. DYNAMIC events are like the name suggests dynamic and random
2. this is not a rail MMORPG if you want that, look for something else
3. we had a thread like this some days ago
4. no to
5. handholding

[Telsek]

"Tagging" all of the mapwide events would just encourage people to run from event to event without any immersion at all. This idea is not a game ehancement, it detracts from the game's design. If people are having issues finding things to do, they need to slow down and practice a little environmental awareness.

The video below does a really great job of pointing out all of the different kinds of events and activities GW2 has to offer. As you'll see, they cover a pretty broad spectrum and are intuitively integrated into the game, making them (with a little attention) easy to find.

Kudos to Enigmius1 for making such a great video!:

Edited by Telsek, 30 July 2012 - 03:51 PM.

[Woundedthorn]

Oduru, on 30 July 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

You were new? Really? You didn't know anything about Dynamic Events/Renown Hearts or how they worked when you first logged into beta? Because there will be a lot of new players like that come release. And how are they supposed to learn to play and enjoy the game? By putting as much time into researching, fantasizing and speculating about the game as much as most of you did?

I just can't get over how incredibly arrogant most of the people in this thread sound and how hell-bent you all seem on excluding clueless, new players from learning to enjoy a game you all love and want to succeed so much.

And no, I'm not for handholding and spoonfeeding all the way to 80. I just think it's a good idea to give a better idea of how the Renown Hearts and Dynamic Events tie in with eachother without the new players getting discouraged by running around clueless and abandoning a game they might have enjoyed a lot more if some function in the game would have pointed out how it was meant to be played.

I concur.

I have been reading these forums off and on for the last half year.  One thing that makes me hesitant about signing up for this game is the sheer, vicious elitism I hear time and again in the majority of threads.  It reeks of intolerance.

In less than a month the game will open its gates and the servers will be flooded with tens of thousands of people who are entirely new to the game.  I would place a safe bet to say that most of them will not do exhaustive research months prior to launch.  It is an absurd expectation and, if required (in the eyes of some people here), says something about the game design right now.  More importantly, the xenophobic attitude expressed here is going to drive people away.  Its great you beta tested, and kudos for being a dedicated supporter for years.  That does not make you better than the guy next to you, nor does it give you the entitled position to say who can, or cannot, play the game.  None of you has the right to make statements like "Maybe GW2 is not for you" if others don't agree with your myopic view on how things should be.

..............

These beta events were in place to find bugs and improve performace, among other things.  Couldn't performance also include the new player experience?  I think the OP's suggestion is a bit generous, when what seems to be in order is a more comprehensive tutorial for the first couple of levels before you are truly set free in the world.  That seems reasonable.

Edited by Woundedthorn, 30 July 2012 - 04:09 PM.

[Plunderin]

the game doesn't need more hand holding. it is very focused on being a social and community based world, and there is a certain point that  players should need to rely on the community instead of a crutch built into the game.

and im sure there will be a comprehensive database like wowhead that takes about 5 seconds to find the answer you are looking for.

[majoho]

Vahkris, on 30 July 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Talking to random people actually does help.  I was pointed to several active events just by talking to NPCs in the starter areas, even some well outside normal range.  A few of these events were some that had started but had no players around.

They might "help" but it makes no differnce if you talk to them or not - not sure why people are jumping me on this topic.

[Manoa]

Woundedthorn, on 30 July 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

I have been reading these forums off and on for the last half year.  One thing that makes me hesitant about signing up for this game is the sheer, vicious elitism I hear time and again in the majority of threads.  It reeks of intolerance.

"No handholding/figure it out yourself/go play elsewhere/go back to WoW" are just new fancy ways of saying "Learn to play N00b!"  Sad really, considering the game isn't even out yet and we're all technically newbs to this game.

Edited by Manoa, 30 July 2012 - 04:09 PM.

[Vahkris]

majoho, on 30 July 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

They might "help" but it makes no differnce if you talk to them or not - not sure why people are jumping me on this topic.

It's not jumping you, it's informing you that "not talking to NPCs because it doesn't make a difference" is actually detrimental to your game instead of just not mattering as you imply.  It does in fact make a difference because those NPCs point to and even start events that you may never have found otherwise, preventing you from possibly wandering aimlessly having nothing to do, then coming to forums and complaining or even worse, just quitting before finding your stride.

Also, the response was also partly for anyone reading, not just you, so don't take anything personally.

Manoa, on 30 July 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

"No handholding/figure it out yourself/go play elsewhere/go back to WoW" are just new fancy ways of saying "Learn to play N00b!"  Sad really, considering the game isn't even out yet and we're all technically newbs to this game.

More than we know.

Edited by Vahkris, 30 July 2012 - 04:14 PM.

[majoho]

But again those aren't random NPC, they are still named.

Either way the point is moot, because for people used to playing modern MMO's most likely won't talk to NPC's unless they have a title (vedors and such) or have an exclamation mark over their heads or some other indicator (like the shield some npc's have).

Again I have no issue with this, I can adapt just fine.

[Lythuun]

Really, this has been suggested over all three BWE's, if A-Net has decided not to put it in by now, chances are they wont.

Some people have problems with this, others get the point of the game where you're dumped in a massive world and left to do what you want. I don't want direction and the game handholding me all the way through, as is the same with many others.

Besides, by the time you'd see an event across the map and actually got there, chances are it'd be over, as already stated by others.

If you don't want to adapt and learn how a new game world works, over the trashy recycled stuff out there now, chances are GW2 just isn't for you.

[Leikin]

majoho, on 30 July 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

I must admit I do feel a lack of direction at times, but I'm sure it's just because this is a new concept we will get used to it soon enough.

How can you feel a lack of direction? You have flashing orange dialogues that flashes on your right side of the screen, you have orange big circles on the map and on the mini-map. If that shouldn't be enough, you have NPCs running around and yelling "COME COME HEEEELP MEEE!!" (actually quite annoying.).

The story is that the trinity wow players do one of the events in a chain and then rush to another heart and DE. They don't stop and actually speak with the NPC and follow him to the next event in the chain. Trinity players are so in to get lvl 80 fast as hell so they haven't time to actually play the game, and then they complain about lack of hand holding.

this is the 100 times I writing this.

[majoho]

Leikin, on 30 July 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

this is the 100 times I writing this.

Take a chill-pill

Did I say that I had a problem with it?

I was making an observation and you et all agressive about it, try and read my other posts and stop overreacting next time.

[ogrejd]

sty0pa, on 30 July 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

And, um, why do we care about 'closing that level gap'?  What level gap, when higher levels are downleveled and can play anywhere?

The "level gap" isn't between you and other players - it's when you are too low (generally 2-3 levels) for the next set of Renown events and your Personal Story, so you end up wandering around aimlessly, praying for Dynamic Events that won't be constantly handing you your ass and wiping out your bank account due to transit and repair bills.  And, no, going to other zones of the same level is not a reasonable solution for anyone other than those insisting on sticking with only one or two characters due to the burnout it will cause.

[Tenicord]

I likehow Guild Wars 2 works however I do think players sould watch some of the guild wars 2 videos from A.Net so people have a better understanding of the concept and their philosophy.

[Teef]

Quote

I just can't get over how incredibly arrogant most of the people in this thread sound and how hell-bent you all seem on excluding clueless, new players from learning to enjoy a game you all love and want to succeed so m...

When I played Everquest, there were no icons or markers telling me where to go or what to do. I had to figure it out. When I played Dark Age of Camelot, I had no markers or icons telling me where to go or what to do. I had to figure it out.

Now to Guild Wars 2, there are a billion markers and icons on the map telling you where you can go and what you can do. Not sure what to do? Go find a heart and do the "quest" there, and a DE will pop up. Rinse and repeat if you really want some "structure". Honestly, it's not about wanting people to be excluded, but if you really can't figure out this very BASIC mechanic, you probably need to go play something else.

New players will learn how to play, there doesn't need to be anymore handholding, there already is a ton of it! Stop making people stupid.

[ogrejd]

Woundedthorn, on 30 July 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

I have been reading these forums off and on for the last half year.  One thing that makes me hesitant about signing up for this game is the sheer, vicious elitism I hear time and again in the majority of threads.  It reeks of intolerance.

It's been just as bad inside the game, frankly, at least on the servers I was on. Publically point out a bug or, worse, something that desperately needs polish, and you could almost guarantee that you'd be screamed at..

[Vanash]

I think the whole point of DE's is more of a side benefit of exploration. One of the main attractions of the PvE in this game is just that. NOT being told where to go, NOT having to kill 63 boars, but just wandering about and have stuff happen.

[Gwendia]

ogrejd, on 30 July 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

so you end up wandering around aimlessly

+1

[Leikin]

ogrejd, on 30 July 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

The "level gap" isn't between you and other players - it's when you are too low (generally 2-3 levels) for the next set of Renown events and your Personal Story, so you end up wandering around aimlessly, praying for Dynamic Events that won't be constantly handing you your ass and wiping out your bank account due to transit and repair bills.  And, no, going to other zones of the same level is not a reasonable solution for anyone other than those insisting on sticking with only one or two characters due to the burnout it will cause.

Doing the DE as they are intended is a solid solution though...