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Lowell's Ultimate sPvP Thief Guide [W.I.P]


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#31 Faded913

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:11 PM

i see so the only real viable build is a ranged/condition one with some melee mixed in for conditions in your opinion? off topic but dont u find it a bit sad/frustrating that Anet has reduced the thief to almost a ranger with stealth and bleeds? lol i hope after watching your video they dont decide to nerf conditions too...sigh.

#32 lammy

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:17 PM

Quick question: What is the range for Venomous Aura? In BWE3, it seemed like my venoms would not share unless I was in melee range of my allies :(

#33 Lowell

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:46 PM

View PostFaded913, on 02 August 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

i see so the only real viable build is a ranged/condition one with some melee mixed in for conditions in your opinion? off topic but dont u find it a bit sad/frustrating that Anet has reduced the thief to almost a ranger with stealth and bleeds? lol i hope after watching your video they dont decide to nerf conditions too...sigh.

I think it's the only viable type of build for competitive play, yes. Venoms need to be nerfed somehow in my opinion and the rest needs to get a loooot better. I put all my faith in Anet, they'll deliver!!


View Postlammy, on 02 August 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Quick question: What is the range for Venomous Aura? In BWE3, it seemed like my venoms would not share unless I was in melee range of my allies :(

The range at which the 2 NPCs summoned by Thieves' Guild pop is around the max range. It's an EXTREMLY powerful trait, so the close range requirement is a very little drawback in my opinion.

#34 lammy

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:11 PM

View PostLowell, on 02 August 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

The range at which the 2 NPCs summoned by Thieves' Guild pop is around the max range. It's an EXTREMLY powerful trait, so the close range requirement is a very little drawback in my opinion.

So is the venomous aura range just at melee range and it's not a bug?

#35 Lowell

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:17 PM

Yes it is =)

#36 lammy

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:22 PM

Awwww okay, thank you! :)

#37 Uder

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:27 PM

his guide is a swiss masterpiece, good job Lowell! :)

EDIT: Did you try a power build?

Edited by Uder, 02 August 2012 - 06:27 PM.


#38 Dannae

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:36 PM

Just wanted to say Thank you Lowell for all the work and effort that went into that guide, much appreciated.

Just one question - you have the sigil of doom on your offhand dagger - does the poison only apply if you use the offhand 3,4 or 5 skill? or will it be applied to the pistol 1 or 2 skill also (for one shot ofc)

Edited by Dannae, 02 August 2012 - 06:44 PM.


#39 Zeratulz

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 07:27 PM

Awesome Lowell, thank you. All I need is Erho to do a Necro guide and I'm golden! :P :P :P
Make it happen bro!

Edited by Zeratulz, 03 August 2012 - 12:37 AM.


#40 IDarko

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 11:11 PM

Played with the Venom build in the stress test and it really was super effectice. When you get better with C&D, it really makes it easyer to use multiple sneak attacks in a fight, or to stomp people.

Now, let's just hope that more direct damage builds will become viable aswell.

#41 Smellyead

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 11:25 PM

View PostDannae, on 02 August 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Just wanted to say Thank you Lowell for all the work and effort that went into that guide, much appreciated.

Just one question - you have the sigil of doom on your offhand dagger - does the poison only apply if you use the offhand 3,4 or 5 skill? or will it be applied to the pistol 1 or 2 skill also (for one shot ofc)

It's the next attack on that weapon set, it will proc off the Pistol in MH aswell, I've just being messing about with it to test it. :)

#42 Faded913

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 11:49 PM

lowell did you play in the stress test and noticed anything you might change. I tried a hybrid build based off one of yours and i did pretty good with it. Ill post it for criticism soon.

#43 Faelor

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 12:30 AM

So, you're saying I shouldn't be spamming shortbow #3?

Excellent guide Lowell. You're a top-notch guy and I expected a good guide, but this is great. Keep it up!


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#44 Faded913

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 02:08 AM

Ok so here is my hybrid build but you can call it a venom 'noob' build and add it to your guide lol. Since im still getting used to playing a thief and gw2 in general (never played gw1), two things are challenging. One, managing your initiative. And two, managing your endurance and dodges. I found myself not paying as much attention as I should be, but that will become second nature over time. So I wanted to build off of one of your builds and have a little more leeway and forgiveness with endurance and initiative.

Deadly Arts 15 - III
Shadow Arts 25 - V-IX
Acrobatics 15 - II (power of inertia)
Trickery 15 - V (Thrill of the crime)

I used everything else of yours including sigils, runes. I gave up ice drake venom and tried some different utilities like haste, roll, blinding powder, etc

What do you think? I feel this is a good learning build for me and actually did pretty good with it, finished in top 3 every game and I feel i was a little supportive to my team with thrill of the crime. Once i get more comfortable and better i will go with a more traditional venom build.

I must say that the venom builds you have are by far the most superior ive played as a thief so i thank you again.

The only real problems i had was dealing with conditions myself.

ps: haste + sneak attack = ownage

#45 Lowell

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 05:15 PM

Thank you all!!

View PostUder, on 02 August 2012 - 06:27 PM, said:

EDIT: Did you try a power build?

Yes, I did. I'm not saying that it's bad, it's just subpar compared to other professions' power builds (mostly Ele / Warrior, because they can fill the same roles).

View PostZeratulz, on 02 August 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Awesome Lowell, thank you. All I need is Erho to do a Necro guide and I'm golden! :P :P :P
Make it happen bro!

Haha, thank you!
I think Erho's working on the Engineer guide, but shhh it's a secret!



View PostFaelor, on 03 August 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

So, you're saying I shouldn't be spamming shortbow #3?

Excellent guide Lowell. You're a top-notch guy and I expected a good guide, but this is great. Keep it up!


Faelor
www.GW2BnC.com

I'm just saying that if you do spam it, you need to go musketeer mode and shout "HOHO" or "HAHA" everytime you dodge something!
Thank you Faelor! Keep up the good job with B'n'C!


View PostFaded913, on 03 August 2012 - 02:08 AM, said:

Ok so here is my hybrid build but you can call it a venom 'noob' build and add it to your guide lol. Since im still getting used to playing a thief and gw2 in general (never played gw1), two things are challenging. One, managing your initiative. And two, managing your endurance and dodges. I found myself not paying as much attention as I should be, but that will become second nature over time. So I wanted to build off of one of your builds and have a little more leeway and forgiveness with endurance and initiative.

Deadly Arts 15 - III
Shadow Arts 25 - V-IX
Acrobatics 15 - II (power of inertia)
Trickery 15 - V (Thrill of the crime)

I used everything else of yours including sigils, runes. I gave up ice drake venom and tried some different utilities like haste, roll, blinding powder, etc

What do you think? I feel this is a good learning build for me and actually did pretty good with it, finished in top 3 every game and I feel i was a little supportive to my team with thrill of the crime. Once i get more comfortable and better i will go with a more traditional venom build.

I must say that the venom builds you have are by far the most superior ive played as a thief so i thank you again.

The only real problems i had was dealing with conditions myself.

ps: haste + sneak attack = ownage

Hmm, the 25pt in Shadow Arts is useless, it's a very weak minor trait. Not taking the 20% cooldown reduction for poisons in Deadly Arts is possible, but I would not recommend it unless you're taking something really really important! The rest is pretty much ok!

As for the condition problem, yeah it's the biggest problem thieves have!

#46 Killyox

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 05:46 PM

Very useful guide, not only for thieves but for anyone interested even mildly in sPvP. Has useful in and outs on thief :)

#47 Faded913

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 06:29 PM

View PostLowell, on 03 August 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:


Hmm, the 25pt in Shadow Arts is useless, it's a very weak minor trait. Not taking the 20% cooldown reduction for poisons in Deadly Arts is possible, but I would not recommend it unless you're taking something really really important! The rest is pretty much ok!

As for the condition problem, yeah it's the biggest problem thieves have!

Thanks. sorry dont understand why 25 pts in Shadow arts is useless? I based it off your build..i think lol

#48 Lowell

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 06:34 PM

I was talking about the 25 pt minor trait "Hidden Assassin", there is not point in going above 20 if you don't want the 30 points =)

#49 Faded913

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 07:30 PM

View PostLowell, on 03 August 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

I was talking about the 25 pt minor trait "Hidden Assassin", there is not point in going above 20 if you don't want the 30 points =)

ahh got you, you meant the 25th point, not the 25 points. Thanks for being so patient and helpful :))

#50 Killyox

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:17 PM

Lowell. What do you think about current caltrops(utility, not trait)? It has big area, nice for controlling particular part of zone with it when doing team fights. Low cd, stacks 2 stacks per sec. Alone you can easily have 8 stracks in 4 seconds n AoE. Due to the way it works it's pretty much constant cripple. Stability won't help nor will condition removal. Works even better with other trap like skills of other classes. Caltrops + Box of needles from engie can stack very quick 16+ stacks of bleeding while applying very long cripples.

Edited by Killyox, 03 August 2012 - 08:18 PM.


#51 TheHidden01

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:20 PM

This is very well made, a great starting point for anyone looking to delve deeper into their class.

I saw you first in the SS vs TP battle, and it's great to see a guide by you also.

TH

#52 Lowell

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 12:08 AM

View PostKillyox, on 03 August 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

Lowell. What do you think about current caltrops(utility, not trait)? It has big area, nice for controlling particular part of zone with it when doing team fights. Low cd, stacks 2 stacks per sec. Alone you can easily have 8 stracks in 4 seconds n AoE. Due to the way it works it's pretty much constant cripple. Stability won't help nor will condition removal. Works even better with other trap like skills of other classes. Caltrops + Box of needles from engie can stack very quick 16+ stacks of bleeding while applying very long cripples.

I actually hesitated on wheter or not I should add it to the list and ended up deciding that I wouldn't, because some other utilities just seem more useful to me. However, I have to admit that it's good enough to mention it, so I'll add it in this week-end's edit!

Thanks for bringing it up!


View PostTheHidden01, on 03 August 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

This is very well made, a great starting point for anyone looking to delve deeper into their class.

I saw you first in the SS vs TP battle, and it's great to see a guide by you also.

TH

Thanks!

Since some people asked for it on reddit, I'll also add less competitive builds in a "Not good enough, but still good" section, so that more people can find what they're looking for!

#53 Spark026

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 01:01 AM

Quick question on the specifics of the Chill condition since it's related to one of the main utilities in these builds:

Does it just reset the recharge timers on opponents skills while the chill condition is in effect or does the recharge timer increase continue to be in effect on those skills on cd after the chill effect has dissipated?  I'd assume its the former, otherwise you probably wouldn't drop this venom first, but just wanted a clarification that I can trust.  Thanks.

If it is the former, it seems like it'd very effective with an organized team focusing a target with shared venoms, but pretty lackluster(compared to alternatives) in less organized solo queue environments.

#54 Lowell

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 02:42 AM

It's the former!

It slows the recharge of every skill that's recharging by 66%, even if he already was on cooldown when you applied the chill on your target, while chill is active.

Don't forget that it also reduces movement speed, which reduces the range leaps, etc have.

#55 CKABEH 3BEPOB

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 09:50 AM

Very nice post Lowell, enjoyed reading it. Some nice tips, since Thief is my main, and will be played for a loooooooooong time.

I would love to recommend awesome kiting ( if necessary ) combo: Inf. Arrow x2, Shadowstep, 180 turn, Roll for Ini., 180 turn, 2x Inf. Arrow. I love to see enemy just stand half mile away cursing for his target that just escaped their doooom :D

Same thing i use for long runs in WvW, for a speedy cover of large portions of the territory.

#56 Smellyead

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 03:08 PM

View PostCKABEH 3BEPOB, on 04 August 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

Very nice post Lowell, enjoyed reading it. Some nice tips, since Thief is my main, and will be played for a loooooooooong time.

I would love to recommend awesome kiting ( if necessary ) combo: Inf. Arrow x2, Shadowstep, 180 turn, Roll for Ini., 180 turn, 2x Inf. Arrow. I love to see enemy just stand half mile away cursing for his target that just escaped their doooom :D

Same thing i use for long runs in WvW, for a speedy cover of large portions of the territory.

I prefer Disabling Shot for kiting, perma cripple and you can troll them to hell. Evading every attack ftw. :)

#57 dngrs

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 06:36 PM

any info about weapons?

#58 Lowell

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 07:00 PM

There already is?

If you mean subpar weapon sets that arent as effective, I'll add it in this week-end's edit. Probably tomorrow! =)

#59 Anelyn

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 08:19 PM

Very nice guide!

A quick question: if you use D/D as 2nd weapon set, and a warrior BR frenzy 100B on you (let's say for the sake of argument that you are out of endurance and all utility skills are on CD) if you use death blossom would you evade 100B damage? (I simply could not find a warrior willing to do the combo on me during the last stress test).

#60 CKABEH 3BEPOB

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 08:34 PM

View PostSmellyead, on 04 August 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

I prefer Disabling Shot for kiting, perma cripple and you can troll them to hell. Evading every attack ftw. :)

Lol, that is true. I completely forgot that there is probably one or two arrows with full ini traits, yu can also vanish, just to get back ini for one more shot. In your case is the same. Thief is really good at not being hit. Some people just do not get it :D




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