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Lowell's Ultimate sPvP Thief Guide [W.I.P]


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#481 Lowell

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 02:23 PM

hello!

Fire does slightly (100-200) less damage than air and is AoE. I only use Air for builds in which 100-200 dmg can be the difference between life and death (backstab).

I don't use blood at all, I just don't bother changing the sigils for underwater to be honest xD I'll do it, I promise!

#482 Snw_

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:38 AM

Lol what underwater weapon Sigils DO you use then? :o

#483 Ac3ofShadows

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:38 PM

Hi lowell, i was wondering if it was you playing on Desolation EU?
- i kinda ran into you guys at paid tourney last week. Been trough hell...
-As a one thief to another - "keep up!;Keep this post and your spirits alive as usual!"

Props!

#484 funnyguy12345

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:18 PM

Which is better for overall survival in a 20/0/30/20/0 Venom share build? Pain Response or Assassin's Reward?

Edited by funnyguy12345, 05 November 2012 - 02:19 PM.


#485 WilsonK

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:32 PM

Great post, I created my thief a couple days ago and learnt a lot from this, thanks!

Anyway, what weapon sets do you guys indicate for a non-experienced thief player on spvp hot join? Oh, and I know this is not the pve section, but i'm using d/d and p/p for it, is is good or should I change?

#486 buujuu

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:12 PM

how about that viable tpvp S/D build lowell? :P

#487 Evelith

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:25 PM

View Postbuujuu, on 05 November 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

how about that viable tpvp S/D build lowell? :P
25/30/0/0/15
+15% stun duration on sword, fire or air sigil on dagger. fire sigil on shortbow.
amulet/jewel is a bit of preference but i'm running knights amu with berzerkers jewel.
personally use divinity runes but if you go berzerkers amu i guess air runes would be the best.
shadowstep and shadowrefuge as utilities, 3rd one can be anything you want really.


competetive enough to get 5 qualifying points in a row.

#488 Snw_

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 02:44 PM

About those underwater Sigils Lowell :P

#489 Auranath

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:07 AM

Hi Lowell,

Great guide, very informative.  Just a question though, what build do you use or how would you adapt the builds listed for WvW?  I know short bow is the main way to rock there but what would be the better option for the melee set for WvW in your opinion?  Thanks for any help.

Cheers,

Auranath

#490 Nabos

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 11:03 AM

nice build , anyway with my 3 pets all builds are good



#491 Umbra nox

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Posted 11 November 2012 - 07:40 PM

on venom share builds:
Any build using Pistol/Dagger in this category can be as effective/better with Sword/Pistol.
does this still apply?

also; the last build, are you still using that one? (the one with sword/pistol)

#492 Kerishan

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 11:08 AM

Waiting for shortbow shadowstep for new pvp map :P

#493 ilJumper

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:26 PM

wonder if air runes are still worth it after 25% damage nerf

#494 ilJumper

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 06:50 PM

I confirm lowell uses runes of orge now with pw

#495 Lowell

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:08 PM

Hi guys! Sorry for not being around lately.
I'm working on a major revamp for the guide, stay tuned!

View PostSnw_, on 05 November 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

Lol what underwater weapon Sigils DO you use then?

I don't use any actually xD would use 2x spear with energy for more retarded evasion uptime I guess :P


View PostAc3ofShadows, on 05 November 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

Hi lowell, i was wondering if it was you playing on Desolation EU?
- i kinda ran into you guys at paid tourney last week. Been trough hell...
-As a one thief to another - "keep up!;Keep this post and your spirits alive as usual!"

Props!

Hi dude, I play on Vizunah Square but have some of my team mates on Desolation. I remember chatting with you in game!


View Postbuujuu, on 05 November 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

how about that viable tpvp S/D build lowell?

The build evelith listed is perfectly fine. However, it got hit by the cloak and dagger nerf much harder than D/D builds.


View PostAuranath, on 07 November 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

Hi Lowell,

Great guide, very informative.  Just a question though, what build do you use or how would you adapt the builds listed for WvW?  I know short bow is the main way to rock there but what would be the better option for the melee set for WvW in your opinion?  Thanks for any help.

Cheers,

Auranath

Hi! I play the same build I play in sPvP atm: 10 30 0 30 0, I'll update the mainpage with it tonight. As you said, Sbow is the mainset in WvW, I heard D/D is godlike there because of some clipping bug, but I play S/P during the few moments I play WvW!


View PostUmbra nox, on 11 November 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

on venom share builds:
Any build using Pistol/Dagger in this category can be as effective/better with Sword/Pistol.
does this still apply?

also; the last build, are you still using that one? (the one with sword/pistol)

Yes the quote is still true imo! I don't play Venom Share that much nowadays, but I'd play it with S/P if I did.


View PostKerishan, on 16 November 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Waiting for shortbow shadowstep for new pvp map

Good point, I didn't play on it as much as I would have liked to! Soon! (= 82 years according to Chap)


View PostilJumper, on 17 November 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

wonder if air runes are still worth it after 25% damage nerf

They totally are if you play with the +50% damage in downstate.


View PostilJumper, on 03 December 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

I confirm lowell uses runes of orge now with pw

Yup, back to the good old S/P days. I still believe it's the strongest Thief set and I play it with a 10 30 0 30 0 build and ogre runes!

#496 Snw_

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:12 PM

Hi Lowell,

The S/P 10 30 0 30 0 build does not exist in the OP, only 10 30 0 0 30 ones lol. Thank you for everything!

Edited by Snw_, 05 December 2012 - 07:14 PM.


#497 Virroo

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:27 PM

@up: Its not updated yet.

@Lowell: For me s/p is easy to counter/predict and its hard to play with sword and pistol vs skilled players. I just wonder if its rly working for you compared to other builds. Maybe You just like s/p? since for skilled player any build will work.

Anyway quit slacking and update :D

#498 ilJumper

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:34 PM

i think he means 10 30 5 0 25

#499 Lowell

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:57 PM

View PostVirroo, on 05 December 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

@up: Its not updated yet.

@Lowell: For me s/p is easy to counter/predict and its hard to play with sword and pistol vs skilled players. I just wonder if its rly working for you compared to other builds. Maybe You just like s/p? since for skilled player any build will work.

Anyway quit slacking and update :D

I will stop slacking, I promise! (I'm not telling when though!)

I like s/p more and I think it's harder to counter & more versatile, but that's only my point of view.


View PostilJumper, on 05 December 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

i think he means 10 30 5 0 25

nope 10 30 0 30 0, doing the build right now and uploading right after

#500 Condiments7

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:21 AM

View PostLowell, on 05 December 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

I like s/p more and I think it's harder to counter & more versatile, but that's only my point of view.


Hey Lowell, need some suggestions about running S/D effectively. I currently run this build: http://gw2skills.net...LLXOukctsYQxUEA

I've been watching streams of top players lately, and I've found the coordinated damage done there is...insane? I think the damage output thieves put out is justified considering the time frame the player has to bust out the damage on a target before becoming a smoking corpse bathed in the hellfire of mass AOE is pretty small. I love the above mentioned above, its great sustain with some utility added with refuge, immobilize on infiltrator's strike, and daze on tactical strike, good damage with the sword....but it lacks "burst" to bring down a player quickly. I just feel if I engage in melee with a daze lock on a player in one of those team fights, I'd have to retreat before I get a kill with the pressure of AOE or just general focus. Despite how amazing signet of shadows is I almost think I should swap it for haste so I can have a burst window to bring players down. I just open myself up to being kited by all these perma swiftness builds everyone is running. XD

So what are your suggestions for best contributing to my team with that build in terms of a role? Also, is there anyway I can watch any videos of yours stream or otherwise? I've had trouble finding good thief videos/streams, and whenever I try to catch your stream you're not on.

Edited by Condiments7, 06 December 2012 - 12:23 AM.


#501 Lowell

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:29 AM

Ok, just did the build guys! http://gw2skills.net...JLSOkkItsYUwkCA

View PostCondiments7, on 06 December 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

Hey Lowell, need some suggestions about running S/D effectively. I currently run this build: http://gw2skills.net...LLXOukctsYQxUEA

I've been watching streams of top players lately, and I've found the coordinated damage done there is...insane? I think the damage output thieves put out is justified considering the time frame the player has to bust out the damage on a target before becoming a smoking corpse bathed in the hellfire of mass AOE is pretty small. I love the above mentioned above, its great sustain with some utility added with refuge, immobilize on infiltrator's strike, and daze on tactical strike, good damage with the sword....but it lacks "burst" to bring down a player quickly. I just feel if I engage in melee with a daze lock on a player in one of those team fights, I'd have to retreat before I get a kill with the pressure of AOE or just general focus. Despite how amazing signet of shadows is I almost think I should swap it for haste so I can have a burst window to bring players down. I just open myself up to being kited by all these perma swiftness builds everyone is running. XD

So what are your suggestions for best contributing to my team with that build in terms of a role? Also, is there anyway I can watch any videos of yours stream or otherwise? I've had trouble finding good thief videos/streams, and whenever I try to catch your stream you're not on.

Hi! To be honest, just get those 30 points out of SA and put them in Acrobatics, swap Signet for Haste and you'll be fine. Poke with Sbow before engaging, always. Keep an easy way out of the fight with infiltrator's strike, always. And you should be fine! Imo, with so many people playing with rez signets and stuff like that, haste's value increased even more due to quickness stomping.

#502 Condiments7

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:45 AM

View PostLowell, on 06 December 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Ok, just did the build guys! http://gw2skills.net...JLSOkkItsYUwkCA



Hi! To be honest, just get those 30 points out of SA and put them in Acrobatics, swap Signet for Haste and you'll be fine. Poke with Sbow before engaging, always. Keep an easy way out of the fight with infiltrator's strike, always. And you should be fine! Imo, with so many people playing with rez signets and stuff like that, haste's value increased even more due to quickness stomping.

Thanks for the advice man. I'm sure I'll miss the speed and condition removal/heals, but contributing the team is more important. You suggest orge runes too?

#503 Lowell

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:10 AM

I like ogre more than scholar yep! You won't lose speed, you have a ~70% uptime on swiftness and the signet does not stack with swiftness. You'll be faster, have more dodges, more health, do more damage. You'll miss the condi removal though ^^

#504 Wraithe

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:32 AM

First off awesome guide by the way. I was getting roflstomped in pvp before finding your Super Easy Venom build to use to learn with. Now I've switched over to the unicorn and it's fun as hell. Also quite effective. I only seem to have problems with getting stunned or messing up on endurance/intiative maintenance in big fights. That or being focused too much. Question, any tips for staying out of that situation. The mutliple stuns/roots/knockdown and being focused that is.

Also, what do you think of swapping Infiltrator's Signet for Shadow Step? I find the 10 second window for Shadow Return too short for stun breaking.

Edited by Wraithe, 06 December 2012 - 06:47 AM.


#505 Snw_

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:13 AM

Hi Lowell,

Thanks for the new S/P build. Was just wondering what your current D/D backstab build is and would you still use Scholars on it or would backstab builds also be more effective with Ogres?

Thanks!

#506 ilJumper

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 10:53 PM

x5 scholar 1 dinivinty is more damage then orgue :s

#507 Lowell

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 03:08 AM

View PostilJumper, on 07 December 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

x5 scholar 1 dinivinty is more damage then orgue :s

doggy is too good in small scale fights and procs easily from one of the 1023130923103812048103812 AoEs!


View PostSnw_, on 06 December 2012 - 09:13 AM, said:

Hi Lowell,

Thanks for the new S/P build. Was just wondering what your current D/D backstab build is and would you still use Scholars on it or would backstab builds also be more effective with Ogres?

Thanks!

Just take as many % multipliers as you can. It should end up being a 25 30 0 0 15, most likely.


View PostWraithe, on 06 December 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

First off awesome guide by the way. I was getting roflstomped in pvp before finding your Super Easy Venom build to use to learn with. Now I've switched over to the unicorn and it's fun as hell. Also quite effective. I only seem to have problems with getting stunned or messing up on endurance/intiative maintenance in big fights. That or being focused too much. Question, any tips for staying out of that situation. The mutliple stuns/roots/knockdown and being focused that is.

Also, what do you think of swapping Infiltrator's Signet for Shadow Step? I find the 10 second window for Shadow Return too short for stun breaking.

I would almost never consider playing without shadowstep, it's too good not to take, 2x stunbreak, 3 condi removal, free stomp, easy escape, crazy engage if range is needed, etc.

As for the unicorn thingy, well CC is the only thing that can stop you but the animations of most are obvious enough to be dodged, you have crazy evasion uptime with the build

#508 Wraithe

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:15 PM

View PostLowell, on 08 December 2012 - 03:08 AM, said:

I would almost never consider playing without shadowstep, it's too good not to take, 2x stunbreak, 3 condi removal, free stomp, easy escape, crazy engage if range is needed, etc.

As for the unicorn thingy, well CC is the only thing that can stop you but the animations of most are obvious enough to be dodged, you have crazy evasion uptime with the build
Thanks for the advice. Yeah the CC problem tends to come in big fights where it's like 4v4 for a point and there's tons of stuff on the screen at once. Though, I have noticed sometimes it can happen in mid Death Blossom.

#509 ilJumper

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 06:30 PM

I wonder why you went 30 acrobatics

Trickery gives you boon stealing (steal stablity ftw) and more initative :s)

Surviblity wise doesnt seem to differ much

#510 Lowell

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 07:19 PM

Perma swiftness, 1231381381031283011380132 dodges, 30% boon duration (mainly for the blasts) and unless you play with ini on heal & withdraw trickery will give you less initiative overall. Yes, missing the boonsteal is sad though.




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