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Sigil Breakdown: What's useful and what isn't.

Sigils

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#1 Chesire

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:18 PM

Did a search and got a bunch of unrelated topics so I'm assuming this hasn't been discussed at least since BWE#1 so now seems like a decent time to go back and discuss it.

What sigils do you guys run mostly for SPvP? I've been experimenting with Geomancy and Earth to go with my condition build but I can't help but think that maybe I'm missing some nice benefits from other sigils.

Has anyone experimented with any of these:

http://wiki.guildwar...i/Sigil_of_Rage

http://wiki.guildwar..._Superior_Water

Sigil of Superior Purity 60% chance to remove a condition on critical. (This effect cannot trigger more than once every 10s)
Sigil of Superior Nullification 60% chance to remove a boon on critical. (This effect cannot trigger more than once every 10s)


So far it seems like Energy is one of the best ones since it refills the endurance bar.  Thoughts on others?

What weapons do you apply them too? Did some sigils give a better performance depending on what weapons they were attached too?

#2 Phoenix Inertia

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:55 PM

I loved the Superior Battle sigil. I had 6 stacks of Might at one point, then threw a Mirror Blade and got 7. :D

#3 Chesire

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 11:21 PM

View PostPhoenix Inertia, on 03 August 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

I loved the Superior Battle sigil. I had 6 stacks of Might at one point, then threw a Mirror Blade and got 7. :D

How well did this increase your damage though? That's more or less what I'm looking for. With the fact that it can be removed in SPvP by various sources, I'm a bit iffy about using it.

I've been talking to guildmates about it as well, doing some theorycrafting, and it seems like getting 6 stacks of might (for my specific build) wouldn't offer much. Bleeding, for example, would only get a 200/s increase in damage which is equivalent to just adding 2 more stacks of bleeding. I think burning received about 10-15 extra damage for 3 stacks, so about 20-30 for 6 roughly. I would imagine this may be even less damage added for a build already stacking Power but I can't be certain as I've never ran a power build.

#4 Phoenix Inertia

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 12:33 AM

What build were you using?

#5 That Happy Cat

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 05:51 AM

6 stacks of Might is +210 Power and condition damage. If Power works the way I think it works then I guess it translates to +10-20% damage, depending on how much Power you already have. For condition damage I'm not sure, but it's significant. With two Superior Battle Sigils it's easy to maintain 6 stacks on yourself at all times.

#6 Chesire

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 06:38 AM

View PostPhoenix Inertia, on 04 August 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

What build were you using?

http://www.gw2build.....0.0.30.30.0.10

I've since tweaked it to incorporate Pistol off hand and MoRes, as well as giving Phantasms Fury so it's a bit more solo offensive. I didn't get to test it enough to know whether or not I enjoy it over using Torch over Pistol but I'm sure once I get the combo's down it'll be much harder hitting.

View PostThat Happy Cat, on 04 August 2012 - 05:51 AM, said:

6 stacks of Might is +210 Power and condition damage. If Power works the way I think it works then I guess it translates to +10-20% damage, depending on how much Power you already have. For condition damage I'm not sure, but it's significant. With two Superior Battle Sigils it's easy to maintain 6 stacks on yourself at all times.


The question is how big of a damage increase is that though? From what I could tell it adds about 6 damage per bleed tick for 3 stacks so 2 damage on bleeds per stack, give or take, and burning from Staff went from 663 to 698 with 4 stacks. What are your thoughts on the increase versus the upkeep of Might against boon removal traits and the like?

I'm seriously thinking of removal my bleed sigils and putting on Might sigils.

#7 Lyall

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 10:27 AM

View PostChesire, on 04 August 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

http://www.gw2build.....0.0.30.30.0.10

I've since tweaked it to incorporate Pistol off hand and MoRes, as well as giving Phantasms Fury so it's a bit more solo offensive. I didn't get to test it enough to know whether or not I enjoy it over using Torch over Pistol but I'm sure once I get the combo's down it'll be much harder hitting.




The question is how big of a damage increase is that though? From what I could tell it adds about 6 damage per bleed tick for 3 stacks so 2 damage on bleeds per stack, give or take, and burning from Staff went from 663 to 698 with 4 stacks. What are your thoughts on the increase versus the upkeep of Might against boon removal traits and the like?

I'm seriously thinking of removal my bleed sigils and putting on Might sigils.

Bleed does 5% of your condition damage per stack per second. So that's a 10.5 damage bonus per stack per second.

Burning does 20% of your condition damage per second and only stacks in duration. So a 42 damage increase in dps.

#8 Flailers

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 11:42 AM

View PostLyall, on 04 August 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Bleed does 5% of your condition damage per stack per second. So that's a 10.5 damage bonus per stack per second.

Burning does 20% of your condition damage per second and only stacks in duration. So a 42 damage increase in dps.

Where do you got that info? Are you sure it doesn't work like regeneration?

Afaik at level 80 regen works like this: base heal + base heal / 1000 * healing power

I just remade the build I ran during stresstest and it had only 100 condition damage. My bleeds where doing 48's.

Edited by Flailers, 04 August 2012 - 11:49 AM.


#9 Zendharma

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 11:50 AM

I found that if my Power was right around 1.8K (or below), then additional stacks of Might make taking along those Sigils worth it.  However, at 2k Power or above, I preferred using other Sigils.

Sigil of Water heals (self and others) and can be a nice little bonus, but is not spectacular.  I'm not giving a number here because the variable numbers I received could have been based upon sometimes having (and sometimes not having) healing gear on.  I did not specifically test it in Heart of the Mists.  This Sigil is sort of in the same category as the final Dolyak set bonus is a great idea: the little heal is neat to see happen, but ultimately disappointing because, in comparison to damage received, it really doesn't do diddly (save in hindsight over a long period of time).  What keeps the SoW from being amazing is the cooldown.

Sigil of Rage suffers from the same problem: the cooldown is far too long.  Yes, quickness can be powerful.  But yet, the cooldown (as it is) remains far too long for me to consider this Sigil as anything more than a gimmick.

Sigil of Purity is actually quite good.  I wasn't completely impressed with Sigil of Nullification because enemies seemed to pop on more boons than this Sigil could deal with enough to make a difference.

#10 Lyall

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 11:51 AM

View PostFlailers, on 04 August 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

Where do you got that info? Are you sure it doesn't work like regeneration?

Afaik at level 80 regen works like this: base heal + base heal / 1000 * healing power

http://wiki.guildwar...m/wiki/Bleeding

Bleeding = half of your level + 5% of your condition damage per stack per second. So 210 power gives a 10.5 damage bonus per stack per second on top of the base damage of 40 ps/ps for a total of 50.5 ps/ps.

http://wiki.guildwar...om/wiki/Burning

I correct myself on burning. It's 25% not 20%. That means that it is 4 times your level + 25% of your condition damage per second with no option to stack it. This means that 210 power from 6 might stacks gives a bonus of 52 damage per second, on top of the base of 320 for 372 damage per second.

#11 Chesire

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 06:12 PM

View PostLyall, on 04 August 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

http://wiki.guildwar...m/wiki/Bleeding

Bleeding = half of your level + 5% of your condition damage per stack per second. So 210 power gives a 10.5 damage bonus per stack per second on top of the base damage of 40 ps/ps for a total of 50.5 ps/ps.

http://wiki.guildwar...om/wiki/Burning

I correct myself on burning. It's 25% not 20%. That means that it is 4 times your level + 25% of your condition damage per second with no option to stack it. This means that 210 power from 6 might stacks gives a bonus of 52 damage per second, on top of the base of 320 for 372 damage per second.

Yep that's right.

The more I look at the damage gain from might, how hard it would be to get passed 6-9 stacks, I'm starting to think Might sigils aren't worth it for a build like mine with over 1.3k Malice.

Burning damage goes from 663 to 707; 44 damage increase per burning from Staff which isn't a lot.
Bleeding goes from 109 to 117; may add up if it isn't removed by condition removal but you have to factor in that you have to keep Bleeding on them as well as keep Might on yourself.

To me I'm starting to think Geomancy and Earth sigils are best for my particular build; not just for the added bleed stacks while in melee range but also for extra little bit of AoE potential. That plus I really rather enjoyed seeing those stacks of 109 everywhere when rocking the staff and switching weapons in group fights.

It's looking like I've got the optimal build for what I wanted and there's really no way to tweak it to get anything better from it. Just need to decide on utility and get my combos down now I guess.


View PostZendharma, on 04 August 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

Sigil of Purity is actually quite good.  I wasn't completely impressed with Sigil of Nullification because enemies seemed to pop on more boons than this Sigil could deal with enough to make a difference.

What was your crit rate when you were rocking these?





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