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Dungeon tokens: Do you like the current implementation?


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#1 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:01 PM

While dungeon tokens aren't something I'm going to get really worked up about, I really dislike the current system.

AFAIK, this is what the current system is:

A) It takes roughly 20+ dungeon runs to get a full set of armor and a weapon.
B ) Tokens cannot be traded period. Not to an alt or another player.

Together, these two facts essentially say that you should play a dungeon even after you get bored of it, i.e. grind for that armor fool ;)

In other games, if you get bored of something, but still want the armor or equipment of a given dungeon, you could go do some other dungeon or area and just trade for the equipment you like. So if I want The Axe of Ultimate Destruction which is a one in a hundred drop at the end of a dungeon and I just don't get it after 10 tries and I suddenly get bored... well no sweat, I'll just move on to another dungeon and whenever I get a good drop I'll just trade it for the Axe.

I get the idea of tokens, but the way it's currently designed just seems to me to be another case of Anet saying "Play the game our way, not yours"

So what do you think of dungeon tokens?

Are you satisfied with it?
Do you think it should be abolished?
Do you think it should be amended somehow? (e.g. trade w/ alts, trade with players, tradeable for other dungeon tokens, etc)

Edit: Some "known" facts to keep this on track:

-Ascalonian Catacombs takes 13-20 runs for a full set, depending on #paths done each run.
-Average % of a level per completion seems to be about 1/5 to 1/3

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 07 August 2012 - 07:33 PM.

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Fun while it lasted. I guess.

#2 Nebojsha

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:14 PM

Well, we should see stats of sets. If you can get equivalent of set (in stats) by other means (crafting, karma, gold, wvw, whatever) and only thing that diferentiates it is looks, there should be some sets that require 20 runs or more to get. Its for those people who like to showoff with their accomplisments in game and that is totally ok in my opinion. Some things should take effort and skill to get.
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#3 Alaroxr

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:16 PM

I think it's perfectly fine the way it is.

Running each mode is enough to get you 1-3 items depending on what you want, and for those that want the full set they have to earn it.

Working as intended.
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#4 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:17 PM

I would actually be okay with it if you could trade tokens for tokens and dungeons required even more tokens for a full set. It's the whole "play a dungeon till you're bored to death, no other way to get the armor" that I don't like. It's not the effort that bothers me.

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 05 August 2012 - 09:18 PM.

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#5 True_Kamika

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:18 PM

I generally agree with Nebojsha, but for 100% sure if this system is good we will need to wait some time after release :)
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#6 Matsy

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:19 PM

Its cosmetic so...ya....doesn't really matter.
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#7 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:21 PM

Its cosmetic so...ya....doesn't really matter.


Well sure, it's not exactly a reason to not buy GW2 or anything. But to think something can't be improved just because it's shiny is odd.
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#8 Matsy

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:24 PM

Oh sure it could be improved in some ways if I thought hard about it, but the current system works fine, at least on paper.
Tokens should not be trad-able at all though in my opinion, defeats the purpose.
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#9 Teste

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:25 PM

In other games, if you get bored of something, but still want the armor or equipment of a given dungeon, you could go do some other dungeon or area and just trade for the equipment you like.


In other games, instead of grinding the dungeon itself people would grind the current gold making exploit and use gold to buy everything. It's still the same grind; in the GW2 model, at least, you get a reward linked to the accomplishment you did, by playing through difficult content as opposed to mindlessly farming by playing as if you were a bot.
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#10 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:26 PM

@ Matsy:What would you think about tradeable for other tokens, or something like a mystic forge transmutation that turns one token to another at a 2:1 ratio or something?


In other games, instead of grinding the dungeon itself people would grind the current gold making exploit and use gold to buy everything. It's still the same grind; in the GW2 model, at least, you get a reward linked to the accomplishment you did, by playing through difficult content as opposed to mindlessly farming by playing as if you were a bot.


This is true to some extent, but not nearly for everyone. I don't think most people who got FoW armor and played legitimately got all their obsidian from FoW. I'm sure they played sorrow's furnace, old UW, etc, and then traded some of those things for obsidian shards.

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 05 August 2012 - 09:29 PM.

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#11 Alaroxr

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:27 PM

You don't have to get the full set. What I and most people I know are doing is getting the gear we like from each dungeon and using that as our cosmetics.

If you run each mode of each dungeon, you'll be able to get plenty of great looking armor/weapons. If you want to get full sets, then you have to earn them

There are two options:

1.) You run the dungeon a few times and get all/most of the gear. It essentially becomes easy to get the gear.

2.) You run the dungeon a few times and get some of the gear. You have to dedicate yourself to get a whole set.

Tokens should not be trad-able at all though in my opinion, defeats the purpose.


I agree.
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#12 Azjenco

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:27 PM

According to this list of items available in the Ascalon Catacombs, the token prices range from as low as 10 to 150 for runes and 160 to 390 for armors and weapons. That's quite a leap. The only thing I want to know is, how many tokens do you actually get per dungeon run?

Edited by Azjenco, 05 August 2012 - 09:30 PM.

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#13 Hatecoin

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:28 PM

While dungeon tokens aren't something I'm going to get really worked up about, I really dislike the current system.

AFAIK, this is what the current system is:

A) It takes roughly 20+ dungeon runs to get a full set of armor and a weapon.
B ) Tokens cannot be traded period. Not to an alt or another player.

Together, these two facts essentially say that you should play a dungeon even after you get bored of it, i.e. grind for that armor fool ;)

In other games, if you get bored of something, but still want the armor or equipment of a given dungeon, you could go do some other dungeon or area and just trade for the equipment you like. So if I want The Axe of Ultimate Destruction which is a one in a hundred drop at the end of a dungeon and I just don't get it after 10 tries and I suddenly get bored... well no sweat, I'll just move on to another dungeon and whenever I get a good drop I'll just trade it for the Axe.

I get the idea of tokens, but the way it's currently designed just seems to me to be another case of Anet saying "Play the game our way, not yours"

So what do you think of dungeon tokens?

Are you satisfied with it?
Do you think it should be abolished?
Do you think it should be amended somehow? (e.g. trade w/ alts, trade with players, tradeable for other dungeon tokens, etc)


I'm not sure what games you play, but allowing items to be traded that are drops (especially rare drops) to be traded/sold is an even worse idea than having to grind tokens for them. I'm not sure what games you have been playing but I have played none in which you can trade dungeon sets.

This means there is no difference in grinding a dungeon for a piece you really want and doing it 20 times and grinding for tokens. At least with tokens you are guaranteed the piece/set.

I think it's fine and actually one of my favorite parts of the game exactly the way it is. It allows me to get things at my own pace and on my own time.
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#14 Ranko

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:28 PM

I think it is setup fine the way it is. You can't just expect to run the dungeon once or twice and feel as though you've earned the set. Not to mention, if you alternate between paths, it can be less repetitive.
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#15 Sans

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:28 PM

They want people to earn things in this game.

Money wont mean as much in this game as it does in others because many of the "high end" items are soulbound.
(Which is another good reason gems aren't "P2W")

I like it just fine.
No more rich people with every rare item in the game without ever leaving an outpost.

Edited by Sans, 05 August 2012 - 09:29 PM.

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#16 Vejuz

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:31 PM

Yes. Resoundingly yes. It is the perfect joining of avoiding "Richest player wins" and "1000 runs and I never got the item I wanted" that runs rampant in other MMOs. I adore the current system.
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#17 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:34 PM

Well, I pretty much thought most people didn't want to ablosh it or allow trading gold for tokens, I myself don't. So I'm taking it most other people don't want to see any changes period, though? Or are people reading the OP? It's always hard to tell :(
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#18 Jokerx7

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:34 PM

I don't like a few things about them. That they can't be given to alts. (Never tried it, but you said I can't xD) And that the ammount given is low and upair. Why not 50 instead of 41? If most of the items cost 100/200. =/ With 50 you have to run it 2 times to get the 100 one, with 41 3, but you run it 3 times and you end up with 23 tokens. x_X
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#19 AngryTom

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:36 PM

Its' great. You get the headpiece when you finish Story mode, and then if you're so inclined you can run through explorable until you have your special outfit.

Token trading on the other hand would make my effort feel pretty lame, because then I could just buy the sets with Gems. Nuh -uh. I like the way it is.
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#20 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:37 PM

Exactly 41? I was of the impression that you got around 15-35 tokens a run.
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#21 Genie

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:37 PM

The thing is, if you don't want to grind out the dungeons to get that certain set of gear, you will be no less powerful for it. I have already decided on a must have set. I will grind the hell out of the dungeons for it. I won't be more powerful, but definately prettier. ;)

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#22 kendro1200

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:38 PM

While dungeon tokens aren't something I'm going to get really worked up about, I really dislike the current system.

AFAIK, this is what the current system is:

A) It takes roughly 20+ dungeon runs to get a full set of armor and a weapon.
B ) Tokens cannot be traded period. Not to an alt or another player.

Together, these two facts essentially say that you should play a dungeon even after you get bored of it, i.e. grind for that armor fool ;)

In other games, if you get bored of something, but still want the armor or equipment of a given dungeon, you could go do some other dungeon or area and just trade for the equipment you like. So if I want The Axe of Ultimate Destruction which is a one in a hundred drop at the end of a dungeon and I just don't get it after 10 tries and I suddenly get bored... well no sweat, I'll just move on to another dungeon and whenever I get a good drop I'll just trade it for the Axe.

I get the idea of tokens, but the way it's currently designed just seems to me to be another case of Anet saying "Play the game our way, not yours"

So what do you think of dungeon tokens?

Are you satisfied with it?
Do you think it should be abolished?
Do you think it should be amended somehow? (e.g. trade w/ alts, trade with players, tradeable for other dungeon tokens, etc)


I have no clue what game you have been playing, but in every other MMO and every other RPG if you want something from a specific dungeon, you grind that dungeon until you get it.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with Anet's current model. Then again I've done FAR WORSE grinds for a set of gear over my life. There were some grinds that required you to destroy an entire dungeon (6+ bosses, roughly a 1.5 to 2hr time investment) just to get one piece of a set, and even then you weren't guaranteed to get it, there was a chance for it to drop, leading you to grind that same dungeon 30+ times for just ONE piece of 8 pieces of simply armor. Weapons...they were even worse.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the current system. If you can't stomach 20 runs, then don't do them. That's the cost, and it's beyond fair.
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#23 Matsy

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:38 PM

@ Matsy:What would you think about tradeable for other tokens, or something like a mystic forge transmutation that turns one token to another at a 2:1 ratio or something?


Nope, no trading in any way shape or form. Tokens should stay unique to the dungeon they come from and there is no other way of getting them.
These dungeon armors are the only "grind for them" armors in the game and you should have to work for them.
Its not like you HAVE to get them, its purely optional content, I'm rather partial to the HoM armor myself and will only be getting 2 sets of dungeon armor eventually for my character.

I respect everyone's opinion, but that's my opinion :)
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#24 Vejuz

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:38 PM

Well, I pretty much thought most people didn't want to ablosh it or allow trading gold for tokens, I myself don't. So I'm taking it most other people don't want to see any changes period, though? Or are people reading the OP? It's always hard to tell :(


I read the OP. The trouble with allowing tokens to be traded is that Mr. Moneybags can buy all their tokens without doing the content. That, combined with the sale of gems for gold, quickly turns into a buy to win situation.

Edited by Vejuz, 05 August 2012 - 09:39 PM.

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#25 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:41 PM

I read the OP. The trouble with allowing tokens to be traded is that Mr. Moneybags can buy all their tokens without doing the content. That, combined with the sale of gems for gold, quickly turns into a buy to win situation.


Yeah but if it's token for token at an NPC, exactly how does moneybags "buy" tokens?

Nope, no trading in any way shape or form. Tokens should stay unique to the dungeon they come from and there is no other way of getting them.
These dungeon armors are the only "grind for them" armors in the game and you should have to work for them.
Its not like you HAVE to get them, its purely optional content, I'm rather partial to the HoM armor myself and will only be getting 2 sets of dungeon armor eventually for my character.

I respect everyone's opinion, but that's my opinion :)


Yeah, I actually like order of whispers armor better than the dungeons, so it's not a huge deal to me. But I thought it might be for some. Apparently not!

Edited by RabidusIncendia, 05 August 2012 - 09:43 PM.

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#26 Zu Darkcrosser

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:41 PM

I love the current system, the items are purely cosmetic and therefore for an item its solely based on your desire to have it - and thats no problem to me.
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#27 Matthew Browne

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:43 PM

I think it's fine. Each dungeon has, correct me if I'm wrong, 4 different ways you can play through it: story mode plus 3 different explorable mode paths. You get a piece of gear in Story mode (can't recall which one), and the rest you just need to play the different paths a few times - completely for e-peen purposes. I mean, you don't need to complete the dungeon, what, 44 times? in order to stay competitive in PvE. You just do it the times you feel like you want to in order to get what you crave.

Buying tokens from anyone else would defeat the purpose. I do agree though, that tokens could be account-wide, unless that is wrong in some way I can't envision?
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#28 Matsy

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:43 PM

Yeah but if it's token for token at an NPC, exactly how does moneybags "buy" tokens?


Then you introduce a dyelema(I dunno how to spell it...) of doing 1 of the "easy" dungeons(AC is pretty easy tbh) to get armor from one of the "hard" dungeons we have yet to see. You get what I mean :P

Edited by Matsy, 05 August 2012 - 09:44 PM.

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#29 RabidusIncendia

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:45 PM

Then you introduce a dyelema(I dunno how to spell it...) of doing 1 of the "easy" dungeons(AC is pretty easy tbh) to get armor from one of the "hard" dungeons we have yet to see.


Sure but that's why it wouldn't be at a 1:1 ratio. If it's 2:1 or 5:2, you would be incentivized to do the given dungeon until you're just friggin' bored of it ;)
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#30 Azjenco

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:46 PM

Well, you don't really need the items in each dungeon, just like you don't need the items provided by karma vendors or through glory. Unlike other games, you don't need the stats from specific items to be enabled to proceed further along game content. All of the dungeon sets are completely optional. The game isn't forcing you to grind, in fact, all dungeons contain multiple paths, to make consecutive playthroughs even less of a hassle.

You can also collect items from separate dungeons and then build a unique look from that, using different items of which you personally prefer the look.

Edited by Azjenco, 05 August 2012 - 09:48 PM.

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