132 replies to this topic

[Wookie4726]

absolute, on 06 August 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

It's better to be able to do PvE content solo, than to need heroes for it. I remember how much bother it would be everytime I wanted to change to an alt... you gotta do the quests to get just the heroes you want, you gotta lvl them up, you gotta find them gear,runes and insignias.. you gotta customize their skill bar.. you gotta rely on their AI(granted it was programmed very good but still it's AI).
Plus it feels less clunky that way, when i'm only carrying around myself and not a full party of bots around with me.

Considering the work involved in bringing a character to level 80 in GW2 and obtaining appropriate gear I really couldn't imagine doing the same for eight or more heroes on each character. Talk about a grind! Even just the thought I find repulsive.

[Tregarde]

Daesu, on 06 August 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

...until you meet the "leavers/quitters".

Then I learn who the leavers/quitters are and don't play with them anymore. There will be plenty of people who will stick around for a full session of adventuring.

[Eagerguilder]

the first year of GW1 there were no heroes. It was a great game because people were looking for other players instead of using crappy henchmen.

IMO heroes did 2 things. made the game easier, and ruined party building with people.  Back when there wasn't any heroes I would often take some guild members with me to do quests and missions. Now it goes like this: put your sabway necro heroes on and win alone.

Guild Wars 1 was lots more fun without heroes IMO. If players wanted to play alone why would they play an MMO?

[Daesu]

Eagerguilder, on 06 August 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

the first year of GW1 there were no heroes. It was a great game because people were looking for other players instead of using crappy henchmen.

IMO heroes did 2 things. made the game easier, and ruined party building with people.  Back when there wasn't any heroes I would often take some guild members with me to do quests and missions. Now it goes like this: put your sabway necro heroes on and win alone.

Guild Wars 1 was lots more fun without heroes IMO. If players wanted to play alone why would they play an MMO?

That is a common misconception.  I was playing during the first year that GW1 was released back in early 2005.  It wasn't as "great" as many people like to frame it.  The henchmen were even more crappy than they are now so many people had no choice but to rely on forming human teams to clear end-game content.

1.  You LFG in town for a long time (yes even then it was difficult to find the right mix of players), you waste a lot of time doing nothing except finding players.  If the quest that you are interested in is too difficult for henchmen and doesn't have good rewards (e.g. the Titan quests), be prepared to LFG/GLF in town for HOURS.  I spent 2 hours in town, back in 2005, looking for players for the Titan Source quest.

2.  Monks were difficult to find even then.  Some monks were charging platinums just to have them join your team since they are high in demand.  And many teams actually coughed out the gold just to have them join their team.

3.  Some professions were overly-nerfed in PvE by ANet because they were abused in PvP (i.e. no PvP/PvE skill splits then), so these professions usually have problems finding a group.  If a character with a more desirable profession (e.g. elementalists aka 'nukers' which were OP back then) comes by, be prepared to be KICKED out of your party, if you belong to one of these nerfed professions, to make space for the more desirable profession.  This means you have to start finding a group again or try to form your own group.  The mesmer class was one such example until they were recently buffed to OP status but only after many years.

Being a mesmer player myself and having faced all that class discrimination before heroes, I am glad heroes were introduced into the game.

Edited by Daesu, 06 August 2012 - 04:51 PM.

[leongrado]

Aww I loved my heroes in GW1. Although I have to say my heroes did most of the work and let me slack off. No more slacking off when you're playing alone in GW2!

[Milennin]

I liked heroes in Guild Wars 1, but this is game is just too different. It wouldn't work well in a game like this. No need to miss them, I can still play Guild Wars 1 when GW2 releases.

[Arshay Duskbrow]

Yes, I admit I will. Playing alone in GW2 has felt lonely. Apart from the fact I mained Ranger in GW1, that's one of my strongest reasons for continuing to play one in GW2: no matter how useless they are in combat - and they are - pets at least feel like company. I do love my Krytan Drakehound, Napoleon.

But yes, I'm very accustomed to traveling everywhere with an entourage of allied NPCs with amusing personalities, and I'm going to miss that.

Edited by Arshay Duskbrow, 06 August 2012 - 05:40 PM.

[Eldaran]

I will not miss heroes in GW2 because they are completely unnecessary.

[Coren]

I'll miss Gwen most of all. I remember feeling sad when I held onto that tapestry shred, then finding the broken flute, wondering if she died. I told myself she died even though I was hoping ANet would answer that question for us.

Then EotN came, turned Gwen into a Charr killing machine (AKA the Goremonger), she became a living legend in her own right with her husband Kieran and started leaving her ghosts behind...

Yes Gwen will be sorely missed.

[907gamer]

I despised Heroes in GW1. It took the multiplayer out of MMO. While it was convenient to now have to wait for a Monk or a Tank, I really feel that the community suffered outside of huge trading hubs like Kamadan.

That being said, as someone previously stated, the content ended up being designed in such a fashion that you needed a full party to do anything in this game. This is just my personal opinion and I know that others loved the idea that you could play by yourself.

[Zhahz]

I never played GW1 so I wouldn't know.  I did play SWTOR and found the full time companions to be kind of annoying a great deal of the time.

The reason I love MMORPGs is because of playing with other PEOPLE.  Not bots.

I duo with friends, group, and at the very least I'm in vent talking about the game.  I don't go out of my way to be social (since I already have friends/relatives I'm playing along with, but I still enjoy interacting with other people when it happens).

[Aveneo]

If I had to pick a favorite hero based on the number of times I commented on their behaviour; it would be Stupid Dwarf Ogden Stonehealer.

Heal me, stupid dwarf!
Resurrect me, stupid dwarf!
Stop running around, stupid dwarf!
You pulled that other group, stupid dwarf!



EDIT: Although I wouldn't mind a companion system like in SWTOR (one of the very few things I liked in that game)

Edited by Aveneo, 06 August 2012 - 05:46 PM.

[DarkWalker]

Yeah, I will miss Heroes and Henchman. Specially a time after launch, when events in the early zones that require groups will start becoming impossible to win due to lack of players...

[SchurgeMarauder]

I loved the Heroes from GW1. That said, I don't think they have a place in GW2 because the game design is completely different.

[DrunkenMadKing]

I enjoyed my hero's and having them in my party and having them involved in the story line.  There were certain ones I didn't like but there were bunches that I liked alot.  While I will miss them I still enjoy GW2 and will enjoy that game.

[agm]

No, I do not miss them. Heroes were always just a tool for me, I didn't care about their dialogue or who they actually are, unless they had some significant role in the lore(Gwen, Keiran, Master of Whispers, etc.). I think I actually have more attachments to henchmen, especially Cynn and Mhenlo. Their conversations were always so fun to watch.

I really can't understand people who say GW1 was better before heroes. They would never rage quit, never * up your mission bonus objectives, never extend outside heal range, and they would always use proper builds.

[Kichwas]

Heroes were when GW1 lost a leg in trying to jump the shark and getting bitten in the process.

They made the game soloable. That turns it into essentially a console game that required an internet connection.

I will not miss them one bit.

[roachsrealm]

I will not miss spending more on armor, weapons, and upgrades for all of those heroes than on my character.  No more extra mouths to feed will make me happy.

[Daesu]

roachsrealm, on 06 August 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

I will not miss spending more on armor, weapons, and upgrades for all of those heroes than on my character.  No more extra mouths to feed will make me happy.

It is all about choice.  If you don't like heroes, simply don't use them.

Usually the people who don't like heroes are the people who want others to be FORCED to play a certain way.  There is nothing wrong with wanting to be alone sometime.  Forcing someone to play exactly the way you want them to is distasteful to me.

Yes, I want to play the game solo sometimes and in GW2 I can do that, in GW1 I can do that too but only with heroes.  Sometimes I choose to join a PUG sometimes I choose not to, but I want to have a choice in the matter, thus I support the optional heroes feature.

Edited by Daesu, 06 August 2012 - 09:57 PM.

[rhino]

I do miss heroes.  Acquiring them, developing them, and creating strategies with them is a huge part of the fun in GW1.  There is nothing in GW2 that fills that void. Playing with other people does not fill that void.  I intentionally avoided the personal stories during the betas because I wanted to save that for the real game.  However, I do not see the members of destiny's edge filling the void vacated by heroes.  They will probably be more like the factions missions where you had Togo along for the ride.  I am the kind of player who will never have a main.  I will play seven professions (no engineer) roughly equally.  I have discovered that this kind of play style does not fit well with guilds who expect you to participate in this event at this time with this character or you are out (Aion legions made me completely antisocial in that game).  PUG's can be good or bad, but I am not looking forward to them as my only access to GW2 dungeons.  I would love to have heroes even if they were only for the story mode version of dungeons.

[Snag]

I will actually miss my heroes a bit, but the game design of GW2 (especially DEs and natural grouping) makes them redunant. I played GW1 before I played WoW, so one of the things that bugged me about WoW was always being on your own while questing. I was used to having 7 heroes (or henchies *shudder*) around me when I was exploring or fighting, which made combat so much more exciting and chaotic than the solo-fest that was WoW (outside of dungeons). Thankfully, the need for both heroes/hench and complete lonely soloing is gone in GW2, and I'm happy for it, but I will look back with fond memories on that which made GW1 such an awesome game for me.

[shortref]

no, they were all dicks to me

[FSnake]

907gamer, on 06 August 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

I despised Heroes in GW1. It took the multiplayer out of MMO. While it was convenient to now have to wait for a Monk or a Tank, I really feel that the community suffered outside of huge trading hubs like Kamadan.

That being said, as someone previously stated, the content ended up being designed in such a fashion that you needed a full party to do anything in this game. This is just my personal opinion and I know that others loved the idea that you could play by yourself.

Please read #64 on this forum and you would understand why heroes are necessary in GW1.  Folks tend to look at this with rosy glasses.

[907gamer]

FSnake, on 06 August 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

Please read #64 on this forum and you would understand why heroes are necessary in GW1.  Folks tend to look at this with rosy glasses.

I've been playing GW1 since release, so yes, I am aware of the issues that are being brought up. I even remember the Monk boycott at Thunderhead Keep. All I was saying is that Heroes allowed people to play only by themselves and the game really stops being an MMO at that point and became more of a single player game with a huge lobby for people to chat in.

[Daesu]

907gamer, on 06 August 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

I've been playing GW1 since release, so yes, I am aware of the issues that are being brought up. I even remember the Monk boycott at Thunderhead Keep. All I was saying is that Heroes allowed people to play only by themselves and the game really stops being an MMO at that point and became more of a single player game with a huge lobby for people to chat in.

That depends on your definition of what a MMO is.  If playing a MMO forces people to party up all the time then I wouldn't like playing a MMO.  I want to play a MMO-like game that gives me the option to party up with other players when I want to, or play solo when I want to.

I understand that the ability to play with other human players depends on their availability to play with you.  If they decide that they are happier playing alone with their heroes then who are we to attempt to restrict them in order to force them to party up with us?  All I am saying is to respect other people's privacy, if they really want to be left alone to play then just leave them alone.  If you really need to play with other humans then take the extra effort to make more friends, not restrict other player's options.  Having more playing options in the game is a GOOD thing.

Edited by Daesu, 06 August 2012 - 11:54 PM.

[907gamer]

Daesu, on 06 August 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

That depends on your definition of what a MMO is.  If playing a MMO forces people to party up all the time then I wouldn't like playing a MMO.  I want to play a MMO-like game that gives me the option to party up with other players when I want to, or play solo when I want to.

I understand that the ability to play with other human players depends on their availability to play with you.  If they decide that they are happier playing alone with their heroes then who are we to attempt to restrict them in order to force them to party up with us?  All I am saying is to respect other people's privacy, if they really want to be left alone to play then just leave them alone.  If you really need to play with other humans then take the extra effort to make more friends, not restrict other player's options.  Having more playing options in the game is a GOOD thing.

So are you advocating for GW2 to have Heroes? I mean, ANet took away the ability for you to play by yourself and they "force" you to play with others. The area you are in is no longer instanced and you have to deal with other people running around advancing DE's faster than you may want them. GW1 was not an MMO at the point they released Heroes, it was just an Online RPG at that point.

[Daesu]

907gamer, on 07 August 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

So are you advocating for GW2 to have Heroes? I mean, ANet took away the ability for you to play by yourself and they "force" you to play with others. The area you are in is no longer instanced and you have to deal with other people running around advancing DE's faster than you may want them. GW1 was not an MMO at the point they released Heroes, it was just an Online RPG at that point.

I don't think I know enough of GW2 PvE yet to have a feel for the game at mid/high-level.  At low levels, there were times when I wish I have a "companion" AI to help me out when nobody was around to help me with a dynamic event but that may just be a temporary phase, I don't know.  Other than in those situations, I was able to solo just fine in GW2 so I don't think ANet forces one way or another where GW2 is concerned.  Why would it bother me if others are advancing DE faster than me?  I would prefer to play the game in my own pace.

During launch, I suppose things would be fine with so many people around.  7 years from now though, I don't know how many people would be around to help out a level 7 kill a veteran in a beginner area.  Hopefully ANet would adapt to the situation just like they did in GW1 when people became spreaded out across the campaigns+expansion in a 7 years old game.

It doesn't matter what you call GW1 you can call it an online rpg or a ccorpg if you like.  The point is to give people options to play the game according to their play style and not have to force them to party or force them to solo every time.  In GW1 you can choose to play with heroes or you can choose to form a human team, which is good.

Edited by Daesu, 07 August 2012 - 12:25 AM.

[Tetan0]

o i miss them already so much, if other dungeons will be like ascalon catacombs there wont be many players to do it or without many many wipes than rage leave, so i would like heroes for dungeons only.

[FSnake]

Daesu, on 07 August 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

I don't think I know enough of GW2 PvE yet to have a feel for the game at mid/high-level.  At low levels, there were times when I wish I have a "companion" AI to help me out when nobody was around to help me with a dynamic event but that may just be a temporary phase, I don't know.

During launch, I suppose things would be fine with so many people around.  7 years from now though, I don't know how many people would be around to help out a level 7 kill a veteran in a beginner area.  Hopefully ANet would adapt to the situation just like they did in GW1 when people became spreaded out across the campaigns+expansion in a 7 years old game.

It is funny that some players already predict that after a couple of months that the starting area like Queensdale would be mostly empty and new players will have a hard time completing the zone.  We will just have to see how well Anet's scale system works with solo player(s).

[Wookie4726]

What if heroes or mercenaries were introduced into the cash shop? Would you buy one/some?