13 replies to this topic

[Quinci]

Hey guys I was wondering if anyone has tried a "Healing/tanky" build with a thief since the last beta. From what I've heard Signet of Malice is affected by +healing now, so I was thinking that a build focused on stacking healing with SoM, in addition to the thief's epic mobility and blinding potential, could be a very "tanky" thief.

If this was feasible it would probably be best for defending points and using mobility to capture areas. Basically you would run around with your high mobility to capture un-secured points, and when someone tried to contest one of your points you would keep them there and stay alive long enough for some back-up.

Since I can't actually attempt the build right now... I was wondering if anyone knew how high the healing could get from SoM? How well this scales would be a big question to the viability of such a build.

Here's a rough example of what a build like this might look like: http://gw2skills.net...G7Nubk3s YsxcDA

[Engel Jorgenson]

It could be viable yes but take care to have a big score in Compassion. I don't remember the calculation now but I can find it if you want. I think I've post this somewhere. I have not tested this the last time but I tried during BWE2

Edited by Engel Jorgenson, 06 August 2012 - 05:20 PM.

[justiceabove]

Generally speaking, rogue or Thief tanks do not work out well not due to healing or health but because of our medium armor. Just like a ranger wouldn't "tank" necessarily. Warriors and Guardians (I believe) get heavy armor which makes then much more viable tanking classes than Thieves. However, if you can balance your healing and damage to make you a decent hybrid this could be a viable build, I just do not think in it's current forum it could be much help. I think this would make you more of a nuisance than anything because you are nerfing your damage by not taking any of the power traits.

[geist burdill]

That build is far from tanky... 12K health is bad for countering conditions, and u have no condition removal; also, withdraw was healing me for 4110 hp at 300 compassion, so it was giving me 10 health for each 20 compassion (withdraw heals for 3960 at 0 compassion), albeit each skill has a diferent compassion ratio, as i know from some ele skills, but still i dont believe ull get a super heal from ur signet if u need to use it; compassion affects regen better than it does with pure healing, at least for thieves. Also, 2 sigils of water in same weapon, wont work. That amount of compassion, used with withdraw, would give me more 694 health, making it heal for 4654, wich is less than 20% increase.

[Quinci]

geist burdill, on 06 August 2012 - 05:46 PM, said:

That build is far from tanky... 12K health is bad for countering conditions, and u have no condition removal; also, withdraw was healing me for 4110 hp at 300 compassion, so it was giving me 10 health for each 20 compassion (withdraw heals for 3960 at 0 compassion), albeit each skill has a diferent compassion ratio, as i know from some ele skills, but still i dont believe ull get a super heal from ur signet if u need to use it; compassion affects regen better than it does with pure healing, at least for thieves. Also, 2 sigils of water in same weapon, wont work. That amount of compassion, used with withdraw, would give me more 694 health, making it heal for 4654, wich is less than 20% increase.

Cool thanks for the numbers. I was just curious if massive amounts of compassion would make Signet of Malice heal for a ton with each hit. If it doesn't scale that well though then there's no point.

[NikaroTheSwift]

Don't really have any experience with healing builds but have you considered coupling healing with conditions? Take down the toughness for more condition damage and hp. Something like a 0/0/30/20/20. Maybe replace D/D for P/D for nice condi stacking, the c/d is good stealth and sneak attack also complements the conditions well. Would replace GM shadow trait for master of deception to boost the 2 u-skills


Also, you still have 10 trait points left to use

Edited by NikaroTheSwift, 06 August 2012 - 06:06 PM.

[Drekor]

Defending points as a thief isn't generally a good idea. You can be very tanky and nearly impossible to kill however you do so through mobility and it can be hard to remain on point while maintaining that mobility. You honestly don't need compassion to stay alive, it's pretty much unnecessary. if you switch to full on defensive mode you can pretty much take next to no damage.

[Karisu]

SoM passive - 150 + .01*compassion

A compassion build will have a little over 1k healing probably, so you're getting a 7-8% increased amount of healing.

Withdraw gets half the bonus of your compassion, because it is on such a short cooldown. (3960 + .5* compassion, ~10% increase)

SoM active gets all of it (3960 + compassion, ~25% increase)

HiS gets all of it (5240 + compassion, ~25% increase), but HiS also gets regen.

Regeneration gets nearly doubled by compassion, from 125 to around 200-250 depending on your compassion. If you can keep regeneration up, you get your compassion's worth of health every 8 seconds.

Nikaro - The stats you get from trait lines is hardly anything compared to the stats you get from Amulets and Jewels. The only one with condition damage and healing is Shaman's, and they are both the lower tier stat, so you don't get much of either. The top tier stat is toughness... so not many people use this amulet.

[NikaroTheSwift]

yeah the point would be to switch runes and amulets around as well, not just traits

[geist burdill]

Karisu, on 06 August 2012 - 06:08 PM, said:

SoM passive - 150 + .01*compassion

A compassion build will have a little over 1k healing probably, so you're getting a 7-8% increased amount of healing.

Withdraw gets half the bonus of your compassion, because it is on such a short cooldown. (3960 + .5* compassion, ~10% increase)

SoM active gets all of it (3960 + compassion, ~25% increase)

HiS gets all of it (5240 + compassion, ~25% increase), but HiS also gets regen.

Regeneration gets nearly doubled by compassion, from 125 to around 200-250 depending on your compassion. If you can keep regeneration up, you get your compassion's worth of health every 8 seconds.

Nikaro - The stats you get from trait lines is hardly anything compared to the stats you get from Amulets and Jewels. The only one with condition damage and healing is Shaman's, and they are both the lower tier stat, so you don't get much of either. The top tier stat is toughness... so not many people use this amulet.

)
Hey, nice info there on som and his, thanks! If the regen formula is still the old one (125+(C/8)), than this setup gives him 298 regen, much better than the healing bonus; however, this bwe3 regen was starting at 130, maybe something changed.

[LUDAK987654]

I didnt see any changes  last BWE
+healing did effect venom leach   up to 283 per tick i think with  all max healing runes,sigils and amulets/jewels
,even  rune of dolyak passive which vent from 67 to 93 heal per tick if  remember correctly . Cant remember if it did effect sigils right now,one thing im sure of SoM on hit stayed flat 151 or so.
Any way to  have functional Vampiric build it was necessary to have SoM  on hit work,or u just lose to much in dmg/hp/precision  if u equip + healing accessories.
It would work great with one of the lowells share builds,but take a note that dmg would be  really low,i once had full 2 min fight with def guardian with no ending in sight.

Just a side note, numbers were from BWE 2 as i remember them ,at the beginning  of BWE 3 i just confirmed that SoM is not effected and went on testing other classes ,so this might be misleading if they change something after BWE 3 first day.

[Karisu]

LUDAK987654, on 06 August 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I didnt see any changes  last BWE
+healing did effect venom leach   up to 283 per tick i think with  all max healing runes,sigils and amulets/jewels
,even  rune of dolyak passive which vent from 67 to 93 heal per tick if  remember correctly . Cant remember if it did effect sigils right now,one thing im sure of SoM on hit stayed flat 151 or so.
Any way to  have functional Vampiric build it was necessary to have SoM  on hit work,or u just lose to much in dmg/hp/precision  if u equip + healing accessories.
It would work great with one of the lowells share builds,but take a note that dmg would be  really low,i once had full 2 min fight with def guardian with no ending in sight.

Just a side note, numbers were from BWE 2 as i remember them ,at the beginning  of BWE 3 i just confirmed that SoM is not effected and went on testing other classes ,so this might be misleading if they change something after BWE 3 first day.

I checked these during the last stress test. Everything of course is subject to change by launch.

[Kerishan]

12305 HP for a tanky build is too low.

[LUDAK987654]

@ Karisu
I hope that u r right and SoM works now ,it gives much more variability to thief's builds