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EX FORCES Necromancer Guide

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#1 Draecor

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:46 PM

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(Youtube videos are located at www.youtube.com/exforcegamer)

Hey guys, I noticed their haven’t been many Necromancer’s guides. I think I have a good understanding of the class after 400+ tournament matches. Please note this guide is more geared towards the Competitive PVP’ers in Tournament Level Play. I would like to finally contribute to the PVP community in the best way I can at the moment. We have 2 weeks for the game to come out, plenty of time for people to check out my guide to get a better understanding of the Necromancer classes. This guide will be continuously updated, as long as I can find viability with the class. If I think I cannot play this class at the highest level anymore, I will gladly hand what I have done here to someone else to do it finish it for me.

(Constantly updating October 4th 2012)
Update to everyone though, I will prefer to teach people through my videos as I am more of a hands on type of teacher. I admit I am not the best writer, or organizer but I think you guys will like watching my videos for information. I am always open to requests too.

The Necromancer is meant to be in the brunt of team fights with its game changing elite skills. However, only one build currently makes the most of being in a team fight without the aid of the elite skill (Conditionmancer).

Here is what you can expect about the Necromancer. I have divided them up in the currently “viable” builds for Tournament Level Play.

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Conditionmancer


Pros:

·Best Conditions PRESSURE in the game. You have poison, bleeds, cripples, chills, blinds, weakness, and vulnerability.
·You can control where the conditions go, keep them from your allies, send them back to your foe, turn them into boons, and etc.
·You have very strong team fight presence with the constant pressure your conditions put and your elite form “Plague” deals.
·Plague Form can chain blind, cripple, or bleed.
·You should beat any other condition spec (yes the Venom thief) one versus one.
·2 Fears

Cons:

·You lack any real “burst” besides stacking 9+ bleeds and poison on a target (which takes time)
·Stability can really be a pain when trying to stack conditions (I think this is subject to change.)
·Most Tournament teams have learned how to deal with conditions so you have to be smart when placing them.
·You are weak against most FOTM builds that don’t involve conditions. 100b Warrior (especially with the nerfs to Stability in DS), Ride the Lightning Ele, and the Power Necro.
·You need to land your marks in order to burst.
·Fears are on 20+ second cooldowns. (One is 20, the other is 45 seconds on your staff).

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Power-Crit Necromancer

Pros:

·Consistent Damage.
·Strong Elite Skill presence, with my build the Lich Form ticks 4-4.5k on most targets (half that with protection up).
·Still have strong condition control with utility skills.
·A 2 second daze, and a 3 second fear.
·Your damage is hard to dodge.


Cons:

·You lack burst besides a 8 second cool down and an elite skill.
·You have trouble against FOTM classes one versus one.
·You are forced to roam when Lich Form isn’t up because you lack any real burst.
·Your Daze (if using Warhorn) is hard to land and easy to dodge.



If you want to find other peoples resources on things like Conditions check out this useful thread posted by Cure.

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I am EX Force, a Necromancer.  I have been playing games since forever, and have competed in Halo 2-3, Guild Wars 1, and have been trying to compete in the Guild Wars 2 competitive scene as of late. When it gets started of course.
I am generally a laid back person, except when I am in game or in my “win” mindset. Which is pretty much in any game I play! I love to talk trash; I think it adds a different element to any competition. Thus my heroes and idols are Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, and Michael Jordan. As long as you keep the trash talking respectable, and in the sport of the game there is no problem with it.



I guarantee if you subscribe to my Youtube you will not be disappointed in the quality of the content you will receive. After launch I want to be doubling as a Guild Wars 2 Profession Coach.

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I have always strived to be the best in what I have done in my life. I have been playing sports and competing in Taekwondo since I was 4 years old. I am a super competitive person, and I will do whatever it takes to get a victory for my team. I am very hard on myself, so the pressure is always on no matter the significance of the game.

Practice makes perfect, and no one in this game is even near perfection or a professional level of play yet. Michael Jordan has some great words of wisdom I love to tell everyone I know.

“Always turn a negative situation into a positive situation.”

“I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.”

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There is not much to cover in terms of combo fields for the Necromancer. The only combo fields we put out are Dark, Poison, Ethereal, and Light.


Dark Fields: (These are probably the best)

Well Of Corruption
Well Of Power
Well Of Darkness
Well Of Suffering


Ethereal Field:

Spectral Walk (With the update it is very strong now, specially with the LF gain)


Light Field:

Well of Blood (Heals well with a high HP especially with the AoE + Dwayna runes. The CD is definitely a hindrance though)


Poison Field:

Chilblains Staff Mark (good skill)
Corrosive Poison Cloud (Not worth it with a only 3s poison)


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The Necromancer is lacking when it comes to finishers.

Blast Finishers:

Dark Field - Area Blindness
Ethereal - AoE Chaos Armor
Light - Retaliation
Poison - AoE Weakness


Putrid Mark is the only blast finisher we have that doesn't involve pets. It is probably also the only one you will end up landing.

Both Necrotic Traversal and Putrid Explosion are pet oriented Blast Finishers that can be hard to land.

Leap Finishers:

None

Projectile Finishers:

Dark Field - Lifesteal
Ethereal - Confusion
Light - Remove Condition
Poison - Poison

Necrotic Grasp (Staff Auto Attack)

Whirl Finisher:

None (Spear Weapons aren't in Tournament PVP)

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Main Hand

Axe: (Power Necromancer Build most effective)

Rending Claws - Auto attack that stacks Vulnerability. Update: Fixed as of now. 1% damage per stack
Ghastly Claws - 8 Second cd 3 second duration. Ticks you multiple times doing cumulative damage and gaining life force. Our strongest burst ability for the Axe.
Unholy Feast - Good cripple, Retaliation is good when timed right. Especially for the Power Necromancer.

Scepter: (Conditionmancer Build most effective)

Blood Curse - This is a great auto attack at stacking bleeds and poison. Even after the 7s-5s bleed nerf. When combined with the 60% bleed sigil it is super strong at stacking bleeds.
Feast of Corruption - Needs a buff in my opinion, even when it crits it barely does 2k damage with 5+ conditions on a target. It is very good at gaining life force.
Grasping Dead - A good cripple and bleed on a targetable ability.

Dagger: (Weak even after a buff, has no place in the current "meta" builds. The range keeps it from being as strong. Especially when Necro's don't have as many survivability CD's or mobility like other burst classes.)

Necrotic Slash - terrible range, but it hits hard
Life Siphon - A decent life siphon, does respectable damage
Dark Pact- A great root, however you don't really have the damage to take advantage of it.

Staff: (Very strong, just harder to use than most weapons.)

Necrotic Grasp - Just a standard life force gaining auto attack. Has a slow cast projectile though.
Mark Of Blood- An awesome bleed, especially when used with the Conditionmancer.
Chilblains - Awesome ability, chill + poison is super strong.
Putrid Mark - Don't know how much this actually moves the conditions, but it does a good amount of damage when used in either spec.
Reapers Mark - One second fear, good to use to interrupt stomps and revives.

Offhand

Warhorn: ( The daze is where the money is here.)

Wail of Doom - this is awesome when used right, it is harder to land then other classes dazes.
Locust Swarm - The swiftness is good but when it hits something as simple as a crate on Khylo it slows you down due to in combat.

Dagger: (Only useful in Condition spec)

Deathly Swarm - Good at spreading conditions, and blinding those pesky warriors.
Enfeebling Blood- Good at putting out more bleeds, which is always good for the Conditionmancer.

Focus: (weaker than the Warhorn + Staff, but the chill is good)

Reapers Touch - Good at stacking vulnerability, but the regen is meh. With how fast the Axe stacks, you don't need another vulnerability stacker especially when other classes stack too.
Spinal Shivers - Very good boon removal, helpful for killing bunkers

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Power Necromancer

Utilities depend on what you need for your team composition. Common choices are Corrupt Boon, Plague Signet, and your choice of well. Consume conditions is not even debatable as a heal.

This build focuses on using Axe/Warhorn to put pressure through dps and dazing important moves (Eviscerate, Venoms, Heal, and etc). Then using your Staff to burst your target down fearing when necessary (heals, stomps, revives). If you are fighting a melee stack your marks on yourself.

Runes are pretty much always Divinity. And Sigils are subjective, I like my choice though.


For traits I take 30 spite for the +300 power. 10+ spite for the crit and 33% chance to gain life force on crits, 30 in soul reaping for the survivabiltity and extra crit damage.Taking Axe Training for the damage increase and cooldown reduction (bugged currently.). I take Reapers Might to stack Might when in Death Shroud. And the signet recharge to better redistribute conditions. For Soul Reaping I take Near Death due to the recent nerf to stability in DS, I take a second longer fear, and life force drains 25% slower.

Stacking Vulnerability actually does something now, awesome!

Power Tank Build

This is a build focused on being tankier, with consistent damage from the Axe. Compared to my power build it only loses like 5% crit, and 100 power. It gains toughness, and you fear people when CC'ed. Double Spectral Armor (one from the trait) and the Well of Power gives 3 seconds of protection each time. Same scenario as above, but points in death magic for some extra toughness.

Stacking Vulnerability actually does something now, awesome!

Conditionmancer (** UPDATE ** August 28th 2012)

Utilities depend on what you need for your team composition. Common choices are Corrupt Boon, Plague Signet, and your choice of a well or Blood is Power. Consume conditions is not even debatable as a heal.

This build focuses on applying bleeds and conditions through the use of the Scepter/Dagger combination and Staff 2nd weapon set. You stack as many bleeds and conditions, and use your blind (4 ability) to spread them (when you have some on you. it spreads per bounce). Switch to Staff and go hammy with it. I will have a section dedicated on how to use your marks. Use the fear to disrupt the enemy team wisely (long cd).

For traits I go 10 in spite for the signet reduction and condition duration, 30 in curses for the condition damage, 20 in Death Magic for survivability, and finally 10 in Blood Magic for reduced Dagger CD.

In Curses I go Linger Curse for extra duration on my Scepter conditions, second is up to you as a player. You can take Reapers Precision for easier life force gain, or the corruption reduction if you are a Epidemic build.

20 In Death Magic is essential for Survivability in this build. Especially when you have pistol whip Thiefs and Frenzy warriors running around. This way they are feared when stunning you initially. This effectively gives you 4 fears if you count the corrupt boon - stability too. Shrouded removal helps you get rid of conditions making this the MOST effective condition removal and control build possible.

10 in Blood for the dagger cd which helps you get more bleeds/weakness off and spreading more conditions with Deathly Swarm (a overlooked ability).

For Runes I take the standard condition damage runes 3 Krait 3 Affliction. And for sigils you take the 60% chance for a bleed on crit, and Geomancy on the dagger. Then whatever you want on the Staff.


Conditionmancer AoE

This build is similar to the one above, except it has different utility skills, These skills are based more on AoE condition control. You can drop Corrupt Boon for Well of Corruption, because it is AoE and shares the same cool down give or take.


Minion Master (**UPDATE**August 30th 2012 )

Summon minions, keep them healed, and time your CC to combo your opponents.

Coming soon.

Bunker/Support Conditionmancer

Great boon removal, take focus for the extra 3 boon rip. Very high toughness, and you only lose 200 or so condition damage taking the shaman amulet and gain HP and 400 or so toughness.

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Power Necro

Plague Signet- Stun breaker, controls conditions very well.
Consume Conditions - Best heal in the game in my opinion.
Corrupt Boon- Great at turning boon builds on their heads. Careful as it can bug out and not cast so don't miss! Edit:Works better than WoC but should take CD reducer
Well of Power -  Conditions to boons? Yes please!
Well of Darkness - AoE Pulsing blind, great for those melee classes.
Spectral Armor - damage reduction and a stun breaker, also gains life force. A long cooldown though, so use it instead of Plague Signet if you don't want to deal with condition micro-manage.
Spectral Grasp - Great to pull people towards your mark stacks. That's about it though.
Spectral Walk - Great ability to use now, great life force gain

Conditionmancer


Signet of Spite - Great when used with Epidemic to spread conditions. Long cooldown though.
Epidemic - Spread conditions AoE, awesome ability when using a condition spec.
Consume Conditions - Best heal in the game in my opinion.
Plague Signet- Stun breaker, controls conditions very well.
Consume Conditions - Best heal in the game in my opinion.
Corrupt Boon- Great at turning boon builds on their heads. Careful as it can bug out and not cast so don't miss! Edit:Works better than WoC but should take CD reducer
Well of Power -  Conditions to boons? Yes please!
Blood is Power - More bleeds is good


Minion Master(**UPDATE**August 30th 2012 )


Shadow Fiend: Does respectable damage, and with the bug fix it actually lands the blind.



Other Utility Skills

Signet of the Locust - It doesn't steal enough health in my opinion. Why is this one not a stun breaker?
Signet of Undeath - Stun breaker that ressurects that sounds nice, but it's a cast time....zzzzzz
Spectral Wall - A wall that gives protection and vulnerability...but what if it misses?
Well of Corruption - Boons to Conditions, but unlike Well of Power you don't call out to your enemies to sit in it. Edit: Is not better than corrupt boon, because it removes 1 boon per pulse (5). Still a good option to take though

(I will be doing the minions after testing them more)


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"Clutch" is an action that is almost automatic for professionals, it is just being able to make the perfect decision whenever they need to. An example is fearing a stomp or revive and etc...

I will name a couple "clutch" ways to stop your opponents dead in their tracks.

Shameless plug of my recent Necromancer video where I show a couple "clutch" examples.



Stop the Stomping, Stop the Revive, Stop the Heal?

Death Shroud Fear, Reapers Mark, Wail of Doom, and Chilling Wind are all ways to stop a stomp, revive, or heal. The easiest of the 4 is the Death Shroud Fear. The hardest would be Chilling Wind in Lich Form as it's an awkward casted ability. I normally save my Wail of Doom until my target is popping a high value ability in a fight. This can be a heal, elite, or a eviscerate and so on. A daze will stop them dead in their tracks knocking them down if they are in mid air.

If your opponent wants to stack conditions let them, then unleash them on them with Plague Signet! Watch out for other Necros though!

If you are having trouble with a frenzying Warrior fearing him or blinding is the easiest way to deal with him. Example...

Warrior jumps on you with bulls charge, you death shroud fear and run away. Then daze his eviscerate and he has down 50% of his burst.

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Your role in the team depends on which build you are running. Power Necro? Conditionmancer? Minion Master maybe?

Power Necro

You want to be using your Lich Form in big team fights and focusing on killing high profile targets. Watch out for Mesmers, as you Lich Form they can MoA you. When it is off cool down you should be splitting around the map helping who ever needs it. With your warhorn you have a good swiftness for getting around quickly. And you can be a decent 1v1 class. You are better off running if you are getting ganged up on though, through death shroud usage (can't tank damage anymore). Use your dazes to set up ganks, and/or stop important things.

Conditionmancer

This build is much more team oriented. You should focus on spreading your conditions to as many targets as you can, and using your fears to stop important abilities. If you stack enough conditions on someone they will feel the pressure, which is what you want them to do...react to it and blow their cooldowns. Focus on targets like Warriors, Thiefs, and Guardians. Yes, Guardians. They can remove your conditions better than the other two but they can't stop your output unless they blow big CD's. Which you want them to. Use plague form to slow, chain blind, and stack bleeds. Especially useful on melee classes.

Minion Master (**UPDATE**August 30th 2012 )

You are supposed to be holding points, and being an annoyance to the enemy team. Find a squishy or burst class and keep him immobilized, dazed, feared, and knocked down for as long as you can and stay on top of him with your dagger. Communicate to your teammates when you are dropping cc's or your well of blood as it heals for a lot. use it to keep your pets up too.

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Warrior

Power Necro

This is a hard fight no matter how you slice it, but it isn't the hardest. This fight depends on how you can land your CC. If you can't fear, or daze when needed you can lose the fight...and fast. Burst DPS hurts us, and hurts us bad. When you open the fight expect the bulls charge early, save your DS-Fear for it and make sure to dodge his HB and Eviscerate. If he's holding out on bulls charge punish him by bursting with Axe and dazing him when he tries to land burst. If he bulls charges you Death Shroud fear and run a distance to avoid the frenzy. Switch to staff and stack your marks as much as you can on yourself and heal early. At that point you both will be low so just make sure to use your CC wisely as it is a game changer.

Now throw in Lich form and you use your knockback, mark of blood, and use your rip conditions to rip is Signet of Rage. Burst down in Lich Form.

Also, if you are running Well of Darkness and Corrupt Boon (SOR Warrior counter) it should be an easy fight. Corrupt his boons, and sit in your well. gg no re

Conditionmancer

This is a much easier fight for you. You have enough blinds to keep him missing, especially when you factor in a Plague Elite. Plague can easily lock a warrior down with blinds. If you are running a Well of Darkness, it's even easier. Stack your conditions, don't pop your major CD's yet wait for him to Mend Conditions then restack (Blood is power for instance). Similar strategy above, land your marks and keep him crippled and at a distance. DS-Fear his burst, and Plague to win the fight.


Thief

Power Necro vs Venom Spec


This is a very hard fight for you, even if you take condition removal. If he dodges your daze it could seal the deal. Be smart with your CC, consume or plague his opening barrage as soon as possible. If you didn't take plague signet pray you have a well or you will have to blow your heal early. Stack your bleeds until he cleanses and Lich form when you see an opening and don't waste time bursting him down. Knock back his thieves if you have to too. Even if he runs if you put enough bleeds they will take care of him. Place you marks in front of him to try to anticipate his whereabouts. This can be a hard fight because of the burst they have, and that we don't have enough burst to burst them. Daze as soon as he goes invisible so he can't take advantage of it, or daze the heal as usual.


Conditionmancer vs Venom Spec

This is a much easier fight, you control conditions better and do more damage with them. Your plague chain blinds them making their thieves useless. If you are in DS early for the fear, and Plague form right after healing. Then spam blind on his thieves and him if you can. You should be able to outlast him here.


Yes this works against Lowell's thief guide, I was playing a pug game and Lowell and I wen't 1-1 in duels. The first time he managed to burst me down before I could cleanse conditions. Don't underestimate their damage.

Guardian

You want to boon remove as much as you can. Currently as Power Necro you have very little chance of killing a good guardian.

However, as a Conditionmancer with the double boon removal you can very well kill Guardians. Just do your best to stack condi's and rip boons. If you are using the non blockable marks you are in a good spot in this fight.


Ranger

The ranger is our hardest fight. Power puts so much damage into us that we can't really do much to stop it unfortunately. If you don't have full DS you need to make sure to use your fears to stop the quickness, trust me...it won't be easy. Their pets can rip conditions, and they have a full condi removal as well as a condi removal heal. Currently, your chances of beating a GOOD Ranger as a Condi Necro are very low if they play it right.

As a power build you still lack the damage to kill them without lich form, if you have full DS and are a 30 soul reaping build however you can do very good damage to them. Save fears for quickness and burst when you can. Land a daze and you are in a good spot.


Engineer

Condi Engi


Power Engi

Elementalist

A lot of Elementalist will take up to 3 cantrips. In terms of likeliness you will see Mist Form > Armor of the Earth > Lightning Flash/Arcane Shield. Luckily these don't really effect your fights to much. Condi's still do damage when they mist form and you can corrupt boon the armor of the earth. Unless they are playing a Valk Sig + Healing power build you should be able to avoid most of their burst (fire grab + dragons tooth)

Support Staff Ele

They switch to air to rip condi's and don't really do to much damage. Keep the pressure up and you will SLOWLY win the fight. If you can fear the heal you should have a very good chance of winning, save corrupt boon for the SECOND armor of the earth.


Mesmer


Necromancer

Power Necromancer

If you are fighting this as a Power Necro. You know what you need to do, but so does he. It comes down to not letting them implement their plan, and you implementing yours. In this fight it is better to drop cc's early and Lich asap.

If you are fighting as a conditionmancer anticipate him to put the conditions back on you, counter with your own Plague signet. If he heals first, put them back, and then use Plague signet.



Conditionmancer Necro

Here is an example of me winning a 1v1 versus a Conditionmancer as a Power Necro.

(Posted the video above, starts at 1:42)

In the video he stacks his early conditions on me and I use Plague Signet to put them back. He instantly puts more back on to me and I consume them as soon as I can and Daze his heal. This is an example of how to beat a Conditionmancer.

As a conditionmancer it is the same as above, outsmarting your opponent. He will most likely start with his Plague signet, place your conditions and Plague form early spamming your conditions.

Edited by Draecor, 05 October 2012 - 01:23 AM.


#2 Masir

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 02:17 AM

Seems tidy :)  ,
I will read it while i'm bored at work cuz i got stuff to do atm , then i will rate it :)
thx for the effort .

#3 Draecor

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 02:24 AM

View PostMasir, on 12 August 2012 - 02:17 AM, said:

Seems tidy :)  ,
I will read it while i'm bored at work cuz i got stuff to do atm , then i will rate it :)
thx for the effort .

Thank you, it took me couple hours to make it. I have never been known for organization I promise I play better than I organize!

#4 Sprawl

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 02:44 AM

"necro is viable"

*lists only 2 good builds necro has*

lolz

Edited by Sprawl, 12 August 2012 - 02:44 AM.


#5 Craptrain

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 02:53 AM

Nice guide overall, although one point of disagreement:  life siphon's damage is not laughable.  With enough power and crit it will hit from about 3.5k to 4k damage.

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#6 Rhynox

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 02:55 AM

Sad there's only two builds.  Any room for a defensive/control point holding spec?  Necro seems extremely hard to take down, so why not

#7 Draecor

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:00 AM

View PostSprawl, on 12 August 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

"necro is viable"

*lists only 2 good builds necro has*

lolz

It is viable when you are playing those two specs, but yes I agree it is not as viable as other staple tPVP classes CURRENTLY.

View PostCraptrain, on 12 August 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:

Nice guide overall, although one point of disagreement:  life siphon's damage is not laughable.  With enough power and crit it will hit from about 3.5k to 4k damage.

How recent is that? I heard they buffed it but I never tested it on a dummy.

View PostRhynox, on 12 August 2012 - 02:55 AM, said:

Sad there's only two builds.  Any room for a defensive/control point holding spec?  Necro seems extremely hard to take down, so why not

They used to be hard to take down, they are much weaker when compared to Elementalist, Warrior, Guardian, Mesmer, and Thiefs (well played).

Thanks for the comments guys.

#8 Sprawl

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:01 AM

View PostDraecor, on 12 August 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

It is viable when you are playing those two specs, but yes I agree it is not as viable as other staple tPVP classes CURRENTLY.


i know, it's just sad :(

#9 Fiero

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:03 AM

I like how the guide is shaping up, I've been paying attention to this forum and waiting for something like this to pop up. I'll be paying attention to your stream and channel.

If you don't mind, what is the comp that you guys find yourself running most often, and which three utilities do you bring along for it?

#10 Draecor

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:10 AM

View PostSprawl, on 12 August 2012 - 03:01 AM, said:

i know, it's just sad :(

I feel you, I honestly did not find us overpowered in BWE # 1.

View PostFiero, on 12 August 2012 - 03:03 AM, said:

I like how the guide is shaping up, I've been paying attention to this forum and waiting for something like this to pop up. I'll be paying attention to your stream and channel.

If you don't mind, what is the comp that you guys find yourself running most often, and which three utilities do you bring along for it?

Thanks, and thanks again. I will be putting out plenty of Necromancer content, I promise to do whatever the fans ask for to (blogs, commentary, guides).

We tend to run a very balanced build, involving a Warrior and a Elementalist in all comps while the other 2 comps being conditional and myself playing the Necromancer. I tend to run Plague Signet, Corrupt Boon (despite the buggyness), and Well of Darkness to combat Warriors. Though like I have said it is very conditional. Just depends on what you are facing. I also run Plague Signet, Corrupt Boon, and Well of Power if I need to extra conditions control. Though another viable choice for the Conditionmancer is Epidemic, Corrupt Boon, and Plague Signet.

#11 SchurgeMarauder

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:11 AM

Bookmarking.

Your guide is kind of disheartening though because part of what I am getting out of it is that Necromancer sucks. :(

Hopefully true melee will some day be viable.

Edited by SchurgeMarauder, 12 August 2012 - 03:12 AM.


#12 Draecor

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:14 AM

View PostSchurgeMarauder, on 12 August 2012 - 03:11 AM, said:

Bookmarking.

Your guide is kind of disheartening though because part of what I am getting out of it is that Necromancer sucks. :(

Hopefully true melee will some day be viable.

The Necromancer should never be underestimated, however it takes much more skill to operate than most of the other professions I have played. I was really hoping true melee would work too, but how are we to melee with classes like the Warrior and Thief? Ouch.

I don't mean to make it disheartening! I was trying to bring more attention to the Necro, it just so happens some of that attention is to it's glaring problems. Hopefully Arena Net is listening!

#13 kyoshi

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:05 AM

the guide is great. please continue it as i have no played pvp yet and don't know if i will until release(all these stress tests! yay!)

this is why they nerfed DS after BWE2
if you watch this video closely, the guy tanks like 5 people at the same time with no issues. he goes in and out of deathshroud 3 times in a row in under a minute.
granted he is a very good player imo and uses his cooldowns masterfully. But still, one shouldn't be able to do that stuff. didn't mean to be off topic, but i figured they saw this vid and said "he shouldn't be able to do that..."

#14 Draecor

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:38 AM

View Postkyoshi, on 12 August 2012 - 04:05 AM, said:

the guide is great. please continue it as i have no played pvp yet and don't know if i will until release(all these stress tests! yay!)

this is why they nerfed DS after BWE2
if you watch this video closely, the guy tanks like 5 people at the same time with no issues. he goes in and out of deathshroud 3 times in a row in under a minute.
granted he is a very good player imo and uses his cooldowns masterfully. But still, one shouldn't be able to do that stuff. didn't mean to be off topic, but i figured they saw this vid and said "he shouldn't be able to do that..."

Lol I saw the first 1:27 and noticed keyboard turning. I think you can attribute that video to running into bad players, no offense to the guy who recorded the footage (good footage). Engineers were doing the same thing, but skill level is all relevant when you made decisions like that. I think they should keep the balancing to highly competitive matches. Balance for the hardcore PVPers first, as they are the ones that understand the classes the best. THanks for the thanks and I will continue this guide. I am targeting after week one launch to have a video guide up.

#15 Rhynox

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:41 AM

View Postkyoshi, on 12 August 2012 - 04:05 AM, said:

the guide is great. please continue it as i have no played pvp yet and don't know if i will until release(all these stress tests! yay!)
this is why they nerfed DS after BWE2
if you watch this video closely, the guy tanks like 5 people at the same time with no issues. he goes in and out of deathshroud 3 times in a row in under a minute.
granted he is a very good player imo and uses his cooldowns masterfully. But still, one shouldn't be able to do that stuff. didn't mean to be off topic, but i figured they saw this vid and said "he shouldn't be able to do that..."

  Yeah wow, that's pretty awesome, and the kind of play that attracted me to the necro in the first place.  As it is now all the builds seem pretty squishy, though maybe not glass cannon.  DS seems to last like 3 secs if you have someone beating on you in all the post bwe2 vids, and in this vid it lasted much longer.  Didn't see many changes in the changelog between bwe 2 and 3, but there must have been a ton.

#16 MustacheBandit

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:59 AM

Necromancer class has been my biggest disappointment in the game.  was looking promising during the first beta event but ever since has gone downhill with each stresss test/beta event.  I went from wanting my main to be necro to not even wanting to roll one.

#17 Tixx_the_Necro

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 05:03 AM

Nice guide, I agree with most of it.    Ironically it helped me nail down that dagger/dagger will be my main hand ;-) I love an uphill battle.

#18 ChubbyRain

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 05:04 AM

Nice guide. It really shows just how bad the Necromancer class is compared to others. How do they keep needing this class when it is already so undesired and lacking?

#19 Draecor

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 05:18 AM

View PostTixx_the_Necro, on 12 August 2012 - 05:03 AM, said:

Nice guide, I agree with most of it. Ironically it helped me nail down that dagger/dagger will be my main hand ;-) I love an uphill battle.

Whatever you disagree with please tell me :)! Dagger main hand is good just not great. Dagger Dagger just does not mesh because both offhand abilities are condition based. You are better off running Dagger/Warhorn, in my opinion!


View PostChubbyRain, on 12 August 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

Nice guide. It really shows just how bad the Necromancer class is compared to others. How do they keep needing this class when it is already so undesired and lacking?

I wouldn't say bad, I would say lacking. And I agree.

View PostMustacheBandit, on 12 August 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

Necromancer class has been my biggest disappointment in the game.  was looking promising during the first beta event but ever since has gone downhill with each stresss test/beta event.  I went from wanting my main to be necro to not even wanting to roll one.

I feel you, I have faith Arena Net will do us justice eventually.

I forgot to mention I have down around 300 Tournament Matches as a Necromancer.

#20 ChubbyRain

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 06:29 AM

View PostDraecor, on 12 August 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:





I wouldn't say bad, I would say lacking. And I agree.



I feel you, I have faith Arena Net will do us justice eventually.

I forgot to mention I have down around 300 Tournament Matches as a Necromancer.

True, none of the professions are bad. It is just frustrating when your favorite one is at the bottom of the totem pole.  Hope you are right about arenanet fixing them, it would make me very happy even if we got just a little boost at this point.

#21 Distortion24

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 06:33 AM

Awesome guide! Give this guy a medal! If you do not have a medal, I suppose a pencil will do.

#22 yooze

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 08:13 AM

Good guide enjoyed reading it, I only think it could be more organised; using same fonts, same font size, organising the traits in bullets etc... You will probably change this over time because it's still a work in progress ofcourse.

I think it would be better if you covered just everything of the necromancer, right now you only cover your 2 builds whilst there are lots of things people can change according to their own personal preference. For example the utilities and the traits, for example I would prefer 10 points in Blood Magic for Mark of Evasion instead of 10 points in Spite.

Quote

You stack as many bleeds and conditions, and use your blind (4 ability) to spread them.

Thought and still think Deathly swarm transfers 3 conditions of yourself to the enemy, not spreading their conditions to others.

Besides that great work!

Edited by yooze, 12 August 2012 - 08:15 AM.


#23 styken

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 08:14 AM

View PostMustacheBandit, on 12 August 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

Necromancer class has been my biggest disappointment in the game.  was looking promising during the first beta event but ever since has gone downhill with each stresss test/beta event.  I went from wanting my main to be necro to not even wanting to roll one.

true, at begining i only plain to play with Necro on sPvP, now a play with warrior too....the  hard class (now is IMO)  and the easy class (warrior) look a good class combo to play depend on my mood.

Please give some buffs on Necro especially on traits lines that is by far the worse of all classes....

#24 Nerathas

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 08:28 AM

Ty for writing the guide, keep it up :)

#25 Craptrain

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 09:11 AM

View PostDraecor, on 12 August 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

How recent is that? I heard they buffed it but I never tested it on a dummy.

That was from the most recent stress test.

Edited by Craptrain, 12 August 2012 - 09:12 AM.


#26 Arcath

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:40 AM

I really enjoyed your Guide and tnx for the work u put down. I used to play straight-up Power/Axe Necro but after the DS-nerf (think DS works best with Power-builds ) I swapped to Conditions Builds (as so many others I know).

I run the same runes+ sigils as you, wepons always Staff+Scepter however I dont spend that many points in Soul Reaping anymore& I always pick-up "Leave a mark of Blood when u Dodge"-trait.

But I agree to get really good at Necro is so much harder then most other Classes Iv played, Tried all except Engi. And I would say Necro & Mesmer are by far the hardest to Masterand Warrior being the easiest by far.

cheers for Guide

#27 Abaregi

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 02:25 PM

Nice to see Necro get a guide. I don't have anything to contribute with though :(
I look forward to it getting expanded and stickied.

#28 Exessor

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 03:09 PM

Wow awesome guide. I guess there is no DS build in there because this is simply not viable at the moment.

#29 Fan

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 04:58 PM

BWE3, jon peters admitted the necromancer needed love only to find we got another "nerf".

You forgot one main build that defines the necromancer and that is soul reaping/defensive, oh wait i know why you left it out because the build is useless....thanks Anet for messing up the least played class.


p.s - good guide, looks like we have to wait until a death shroud build.

Edited by Fan, 12 August 2012 - 05:22 PM.


#30 Draecor

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 05:03 PM

View Postyooze, on 12 August 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

Good guide enjoyed reading it, I only think it could be more organised; using same fonts, same font size, organising the traits in bullets etc... You will probably change this over time because it's still a work in progress ofcourse.

I think it would be better if you covered just everything of the necromancer, right now you only cover your 2 builds whilst there are lots of things people can change according to their own personal preference. For example the utilities and the traits, for example I would prefer 10 points in Blood Magic for Mark of Evasion instead of 10 points in Spite.



Thought and still think Deathly swarm transfers 3 conditions of yourself to the enemy, not spreading their conditions to others.

Besides that great work!

I think that could be the case with Deathly Swarm, however it bounces to other targets so it would make since to chain the conditions right?

Yes I am not the best organizer, so thanks for the advice. I will go over more of the traits and utility skills in the near future.

View PostSefranity, on 12 August 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

Ty for writing the guide, keep it up :)

Thanks for reading!

View PostCraptrain, on 12 August 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

That was from the most recent stress test.

Good, then the multipliers are doing their job.

View PostArcath, on 12 August 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

I really enjoyed your Guide and tnx for the work u put down. I used to play straight-up Power/Axe Necro but after the DS-nerf (think DS works best with Power-builds ) I swapped to Conditions Builds (as so many others I know).

I run the same runes+ sigils as you, wepons always Staff+Scepter however I dont spend that many points in Soul Reaping anymore& I always pick-up "Leave a mark of Blood when u Dodge"-trait.

But I agree to get really good at Necro is so much harder then most other Classes Iv played, Tried all except Engi. And I would say Necro & Mesmer are by far the hardest to Masterand Warrior being the easiest by far.

cheers for Guide

Thanks for the comments. I agree, DS works best with Power Builds but with the recent change to Dark Path in DS we can has more bleeds on our Conditionmancer.

You know it almost isn't worth maxing out Death Shroud, but I feel like you might need to to compensate for lack of survivability. But hopefully that gets amended soon.

I agree with your assessment too.

View PostAbaregi, on 12 August 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

Nice to see Necro get a guide. I don't have anything to contribute with though :(
I look forward to it getting expanded and stickied.

If you have any questions feel free to message me wherever, or post in this thread. Thanks.

View PostExessor, on 12 August 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Wow awesome guide. I guess there is no DS build in there because this is simply not viable at the moment.

Yes unfortunately, I will be testing (the hour we have today) to test some of the stuff in my guide. Like Deathly Swarm, Mark placement. I will have a couple videos made for you guys to view.




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