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If Charr and Asura went into all out war.


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Poll: Who would win the war? (522 member(s) have cast votes)

Who would win the war?

  1. Charr (295 votes [56.51%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 56.51%

  2. Asura (227 votes [43.49%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 43.49%

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#1 Mizzory

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:17 PM

Let's rule out that any of the other races exist.

Let me also remind you... Charr aren't stupid. They'd use what magic users they have to study the crystals that asura base their machines on, as well as take their portals into account.

Okay, bing bang boom. Go.

[Edit]

If and when the charr take out a machine of the asura.. and get a crystal... Do you think their magic users would study it to use it for themselves and find faults to use againest them as well?

Are they smart enough?

[Edit]

I could also throw this in for the Asura so i'm not as bias...  what happen to Napoleon when he tried to attack the russians.

They ended up invaded nothing once the russians burned themselves down and spread out.

However... if the charr get control of the portals and understand how they work... damn.

Edited by Kattar, 20 August 2012 - 05:26 PM.


#2 Rukioish

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:24 PM

Charr hands down. They have a physical advantage as well as being a civilization forged in the flames of war. The Asura would be crushed into dust.

#3 AMIX_GW2

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:28 PM

even though i dont like charr, but i have a feeling they would win, they are a very tactical, war like driven race. As the above poster states they also have a physical advantage (though i wouldn't under estimate an asuran). Also just as the asura can build magical machines i.e golems, the charr can build grand scale machines of their own, i mean just look at the black citadel, i thought i was walking through some army base.

overall i think that charr have a better understanding of the "art of war" than asura do

Edited by AMIX_GW2, 12 August 2012 - 10:30 PM.


#4 Silvercat18

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:28 PM

Charr would win, fairly easily i would say. Larger numbers of troops with a good level of technology. Humans couldnt stop them, so i dont see that the Asura could.

It would be like the battle of Rourke's Drift, but the zulu army would all have flack vests, pistols and catapults.

#5 Matsy

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:34 PM

I want to say Asura...but I have to say Charr....they are a war race....it would be kinda hard to beat them if they devoated everything to killing the Asura unless we pulled something sneaky out of our hats...

#6 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:45 PM

Charr are united (sans Flame and Renegades). Asura are not. Get five asura in a room, get six opinions.

Charr would eliminate asura by the pure fact that asura do not work together. Same goes for fighting norn. Only humans and sylvari would have a chance against charr in an all-out war. Of playable races, that is.


Also, charr do use their magic users. They don't use the Flame Legion, who tries to recruit all of the magic users. But they do have magic users in the other legions.

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#7 JWZ

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:48 PM

Asura = Science
Science > Manpower

Because Asura are always divided in different teams based on opinion, they are hard to predict and every 'team' would use different weapons and strategy. Also Asura could use chemical warfare which dominates normal weaponry that the Charr would use. Don't forget Asura are considered geniuses.

#8 Velron

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:49 PM

The Asura will obviously develop the first nuke in GW2.

While the Charr may be a race of war and united on a front....1 Asura will be in a room and push the "I win" button.

Edited by Velron, 12 August 2012 - 10:51 PM.


#9 Valos_Forgefire

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:53 PM

View PostVelron, on 12 August 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

The Asura will obviously develop the first nuke in GW2.

While the Charr may be a race of war and united on a front....1 Asura will be in a room and push the "I win" button.

Does the searing count? (I know it was with the power of the titans, but still...)

#10 Rune100

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:57 PM

I'm gonna play Asura, but having played GW1 and knowing a little bit about the lore, I can't really picture the Asura winning.

Unless they make the "nuke" of course, but Charrs aren't stupid. What's stopping them from making a nuke? They already got the Charrzooka. Just make it 20 times bigger and put wheels on it, then you got artillery.

Edited by Rune100, 12 August 2012 - 10:57 PM.


#11 Velron

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 10:58 PM

View PostValos_Forgefire, on 12 August 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

Does the searing count? (I know it was with the power of the titans, but still...)

I'm not sure...honestly I'm not a huge lore buff. I just saw the thread and thought it was funny to imagine some evil genius Asura locked away in his lab working on the crazy bomb that will destroy everyone in one push of the button lol

#12 Kurosov

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 11:01 PM

Without a doubt, the Charr.

They have the single most important aspect in any war. Organisation. The Charr have a structured, well trained and disciplined military while the asura hate working together in large groups. The most effective weapons coming from the asura would likely be developed by individuals.

It's also pretty much the reason that keeps the asura from taking over tyria as a whole (aside from their general disinterest). If the asuran ingenuity, Intelligence and ambition was mixed with the charr's organisation, co-operation and love of conflict then the other races would be screwed.

#13 Tetan0

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 11:04 PM

no wonder Asura doesnt want warr they know only way to rule world is with Brains, full war vs charr would be mad, did you see Size and technology lvl of Charr Warr machines? noone would be able to stop them in Tyria if this wasnt game. Asura Golems are joke compared to Charr tanks and bikes.

#14 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 11:27 PM

View PostJWZ, on 12 August 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

Asura = Science
Science > Manpower

Because Asura are always divided in different teams based on opinion, they are hard to predict and every 'team' would use different weapons and strategy. Also Asura could use chemical warfare which dominates normal weaponry that the Charr would use. Don't forget Asura are considered geniuses.
Charr are also scientific with manpower. They have tanks of various kinds. Each Legion operates differently. Asura may have different opinions, but they're all still gates, crystals, and golems. They just function a bit differently with different interests.

And what chemical warfare? Asura are magically technological, that's not chemicals. It's charr that would be more inclined to use chemical warfare (especially since they don't care for the environment in a war, they'll fix it later).

The charr have a united view of "use anything to win a war" whereas the asura are divided. Some wouldn't want war, some would do whatever it takes, and some would have boundaries. They would likely end up in a civil war while trying to figure out how to stop the threat of charr and get wiped out in the process.

View PostVelron, on 12 August 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

The Asura will obviously develop the first nuke in GW2.
Screw the power of a nuke.Does the Cataclysm, Jade Wind, Searing, and Foefire ring any bells? Magic have been doing the destructive levels of nukes for centuries before the asura were known to the world. And the charr caused one of them, and may still have the device that caused it.

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#15 Bilateralrope

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 11:41 PM

Asura control the Asura gates. That means the Asura can move troops and material around much quicker.

The Asura are also the race with flight. The Charr simply don't have anything to counter the Asura parking a gate above the Black Citadel, out of range of Charr guns, and dropping rocks on it.

View PostKonig Des Todes, on 12 August 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

Charr are united (sans Flame and Renegades). Asura are not. Get five asura in a room, get six opinions.

Thing is, all six of those opinions will be on how to end the war with the Charr. Maybe one suggestion of negotiating peace, with 5 more positions on how the Asura will fight back.

#16 Eon Lilu

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 11:47 PM

Asuran's, easily would kick the charr's backside through strategy, superior intellect and superior tech. Easiest way would be to get the charr to destroy each other, rivalry is huge in the charr between the diiferent legions, would not be too hard to get them to start fighting each other, throw in a few flame legion spy's to start a civil war, then gain the flame legion as allies and use them to destabilize the charr and cannon fodder against the charr, then disable the charr's portal's to take away there mobility and ability to fight back without long disance and long supply lines.

Wait for them to weaken themselves to the point the Asurans can just walk in with a massive army of golems and turrets and sit on the Iron throne with very little resistance. Turn all charr into pet cats and name them all my precious bookah.

War over job done. :)

Edited by Eon Lilu, 12 August 2012 - 11:49 PM.


#17 binidj

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Posted 12 August 2012 - 11:50 PM

Sadly, though I love Charr dearly, it is clear to me that the Asura would win.

Superior Mobility
Charr couldn't risk using waypoints or gates, indeed one of their first priorities would have to be to dismantle all the Asuran transport devices they could find. The Asura on the other hand can use their own technology with impunity, thus being able to hit the Charr on pretty much any front they choose ... difficult to mount a decent defence when you don't know which direction your enemy will be coming from. By the same token, any Charr attack on Rata Sum will be relatively predictable because they simply aren't mobile enough to circle round the Maguuma jungle.

Superior Defences
The Asura have force fields, the Charr have armour. Just in terms of resources alone the Asura have the edge because their ability to defend a large surface area is limited only by the amount of magical energy they have access to (this is an unknown quantity but looking at the city of Rata Sum, they have access to quite a lot) whereas the Charr would actually have to build their armour. Granted the Black Citadel is already pretty well fortified but I think that Asuran field magitech is likely to win out over plate steel.

Adaptability and Predictability
Charr are fairly predictable in their approaches to war, they're very good with those approaches but it pretty much boils down to throwing sufficient munitions at a thing to break it. Asura on the other hand have a ridiculous array (6 completely different weapons for every 5 individuals wasn't it?) of approaches, many of which will doubtless fail but many of which will succeed. Because of Charr unity, the Asura will only have to come up with a limited number of defensive strategies ... they will have thousands; whereas because of Asuran diversity the Charr will have to come up with eighteen different defences for every single assault.

Golems sir ... Faasands of 'em
Charr infantry is Charr, Asuran infantry is golems. While golems aren't indestructible by any means (unless you count one-offs like Sandy) they're still going to prove a significant challenge, given that the Asura can use their superior mobility (see above) to dictate where any battle takes place so the Charr won't be able to bring their numerical superiority to bear.

Steamtech vs. Magitech
While the Asura don't understand how Charr technology works at the moment (based on a conversation overheard in Rata Sum) chances are that they'd be able to reverse-engineer it without too much trouble. If the Charr were to capture an Asuran device however, they would find it much harder to reverse engineer because, well, there's nothing to engineer. Asuran technology appears to be pretty much solid-state, so figuring out what it does and replicating that will be a much harder task than doing the same with a Charr device. After all, when faced with (say) the Enigma Device and a pocket calculator, I reckon the former would be easier to replicate than the latter assuming you weren't at all familiar with either technology.

So yeah, the Asura would win, and a Charr without an Asuran control collar would be a rare sight indeed.

#18 AJBeast

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:00 AM

It does seem to come down to the cultural unity of the Asura, doesn't it?

I think it'd start with the bulk of the Charr forces absolutely decimating small Asura groups consistently until they decided they were a big enough threat to warrant joining forces, much like what Jormag was to the Norn. Only then would they be able to push back, and quite likely win, depending on how long it took them to get to that stage, how many of the Asura were left and how high the Charr resource stocks were.

#19 prome7heus

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:00 AM

Considering charr city is hunk of steel and asura city is fantasy equivalent of death star...

#20 Lutinz

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:01 AM

The Charr would have the edge.  They have the advantage in both organised military and industry.  Their advantage would be in numbers and overpowering force.

I wouldnt completely rule out the Asura though.  It would come down to weither the Asura could get themselves organised enough to have a co operative response.  Something like the Inquest could potentially cause the Charr serious trouble.

Tech wise the Asura are on another level.  The Charr have powerful industry and powerful warmachines but actual knowledge and understanding wise they arent even in the same ballpark as the Asura.  None of the races are.

If the Asura could organise themselves quickly enough, the Charr would be facing off armies of Golems packing quite terrifying weapons.  Also Asuran forces would potentially be far more mobile thanks to the flexablity of their gate tech.

It comes down to organisation and time.  The Charr are simply more ready for war.  The easiest way for the Asura to win would be to find a way to get the legions fighting amongst each other.  The Charr legions currently have good relations but they arent unified.  I remember in a towertalk that Smolder's worst nightmare would be a civil war.

On another note do remember the humans have been fighting the Charr for a long time and haven't been wiped out.  Ascalon was lost before the Charr went through there industrial revolution.  Ebonhawke has survived the Charr warmachines since then.

#21 Elker

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:04 AM

I agree with Asura winning. Although the char have that starting advantage, the asura are a wise enough race that they would recognize the impending threat and rally together for defense. With superior technology, instant transportation (very useful from a military standpoint), and extraordinary intelligence, they would likely win the war.

#22 Ambitious

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:05 AM

Don't forget that the asura have the asura gates! Pretty sure only they can understand them. This means that sieges on Rata Sum would be futile.

Other than that one key advantage, I'd say the charr would have definite martial advantage. I'm gonna assume a "Mutually assured destruction" situation.

#23 Verdian_Hawkeye

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:13 AM

People keep talking about Asura gates, but the charr aren't just gonna forget about those. They'll either destroy all the nearest gates, it's not like the gates are indestructible or anything, or trap them. The charr are kind of like the Mongol empire if not exactly like them (aside from the fluffiness and the horns)... The Mongols conquered most of the known world at the time and they didn't even have technological or numerical advantages. It all came down to their strategies.
My vote is charrs hands down

Edited by Verdian_Hawkeye, 13 August 2012 - 12:47 AM.


#24 Lyssa's Muse

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:13 AM

The outcome could go either way. Charr have the advantage of being militarised, any open-field conflict is an easy win. On the other hand I highly doubt they could take Rata Sum. An Asura-imposed trade embargo would be crippling. And despite their lack of organisation, Asura magi-tech is potentially much more lethal (i.e the super laser used against Tequatl). .

Edited by Lyssa's Muse, 13 August 2012 - 12:14 AM.


#25 Stumi

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:15 AM

According to the asura, "the bigger the race, the dumber"  and with logic like that, how could they ever loose?

#26 Caspellaer

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:27 AM

View Postbinidj, on 12 August 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

Sadly, though I love Charr dearly, it is clear to me that the Asura would win.

Superior Mobility
Charr couldn't risk using waypoints or gates, indeed one of their first priorities would have to be to dismantle all the Asuran transport devices they could find. The Asura on the other hand can use their own technology with impunity, thus being able to hit the Charr on pretty much any front they choose ... difficult to mount a decent defence when you don't know which direction your enemy will be coming from. By the same token, any Charr attack on Rata Sum will be relatively predictable because they simply aren't mobile enough to circle round the Maguuma jungle.

Superior Defences
The Asura have force fields, the Charr have armour. Just in terms of resources alone the Asura have the edge because their ability to defend a large surface area is limited only by the amount of magical energy they have access to (this is an unknown quantity but looking at the city of Rata Sum, they have access to quite a lot) whereas the Charr would actually have to build their armour. Granted the Black Citadel is already pretty well fortified but I think that Asuran field magitech is likely to win out over plate steel.

Adaptability and Predictability
Charr are fairly predictable in their approaches to war, they're very good with those approaches but it pretty much boils down to throwing sufficient munitions at a thing to break it. Asura on the other hand have a ridiculous array (6 completely different weapons for every 5 individuals wasn't it?) of approaches, many of which will doubtless fail but many of which will succeed. Because of Charr unity, the Asura will only have to come up with a limited number of defensive strategies ... they will have thousands; whereas because of Asuran diversity the Charr will have to come up with eighteen different defences for every single assault.

Golems sir ... Faasands of 'em
Charr infantry is Charr, Asuran infantry is golems. While golems aren't indestructible by any means (unless you count one-offs like Sandy) they're still going to prove a significant challenge, given that the Asura can use their superior mobility (see above) to dictate where any battle takes place so the Charr won't be able to bring their numerical superiority to bear.

Steamtech vs. Magitech
While the Asura don't understand how Charr technology works at the moment (based on a conversation overheard in Rata Sum) chances are that they'd be able to reverse-engineer it without too much trouble. If the Charr were to capture an Asuran device however, they would find it much harder to reverse engineer because, well, there's nothing to engineer. Asuran technology appears to be pretty much solid-state, so figuring out what it does and replicating that will be a much harder task than doing the same with a Charr device. After all, when faced with (say) the Enigma Device and a pocket calculator, I reckon the former would be easier to replicate than the latter assuming you weren't at all familiar with either technology.

So yeah, the Asura would win, and a Charr without an Asuran control collar would be a rare sight indeed.

I vote Charr victory.

Superior Organization:
The Charr command structure is based on that of the Ancient Romans, widely regarded to be among the best organized in the ancient world. They're organized down to a single soldier. Every Charr is trained to fight from birth, trained to respect authority, trained to put the warband first, trained to follow orders. The Charr army, on the march, is impossibly efficient and very effective. No matter if the Asura can get there faster, you can bet every Charr is going to be right where they're needed. The Asura, meanwhile, squabble about literally everything. If an Asura wants to suceed, he does it by being better than everyone else. That sort of thing does not make for an efficient military. Hell, the ones who govern the Asura do so not by virtue of merit, but by virtue of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I would make a Sparta/Athens comparison, but I've already made one historical allusion in this paragraph and I don't want to seem pretentious.

Superior Preparation:
The Asura have the potential to have these defences, but they don't have them. The Asura aren't ready for a war. Snaff mentions in Edge of Destiny that they aren't prepared for an attack - all they have is peacekeeper golems and those are just to deal with petty criminals. And, if it came down to it, how many golems and forcefields and weapons could the Asura whip up in a hurry, with all their oft-touted organizational problems? No matter how industrious they are, I doubt it'd be enough to stop the Charr - who could probably get a massive army on the road in a single day.

Superior Ability:
Charr fight. It's what they do, what they're trained to do, what they're built to do, what they're born to do. Lock a Charr in a room with an Asura and it's pretty obvious who comes out of that room alive (and no I'm not considering badass adventurer Asura in that equation - they're anomalies and the Charr have em too). Not only that, but Charr dedicate their national existence to fighting; improving their skills, their tech, and their tactics. War is what the Charr do best. It's not something the Asura really do. I could be mistaken, but  I believe they haven't gone to this sort of war in... ever. The closest thing is their relationship with the Skritt, and if I may quote Doctor Who, that is not war, it is pest control. They can't be rife with expert soldiers and military geniuses - I don't care how smart you are, you only learn the best tactics by learning from the past. The Asura have no military history of their own to go by, and would they really be willing to study the tactics of an 'inferior' race?

Actual Soldiers, sir... Milluns of em':
For starters, there are not thousands of military golems - most golems are the property of the one who invented them, and that causes a whole slew of problems with the idea of each genius controls their own work and so forth so it'd probably be really, really hard to mass produce them in a hurry. Assuming the Asura could organize themselves enough to mass produce golems in a hurry and that each krewe wouldn't keep doing its own thing and or trying to win the war on their own to go down in history as the genius who conquered the Charr. The Charr, meanwhile, are an army. They have soldiers and weapons and siege equipment etc. out the wazoo. They could get an invasion going before the Asura have put together a hundred golems and finished arguing over who gets the credit.

The Technology Thing:
Alright, I'll concede that you've got me beat there. Asura technology is more advanced. The problem is that it's not militarized enough, there isn't enough of it, and that they probably couldn't whip up more in a hurry,

So ultimately, in open, total war, Charr win hands down.The Asura's only real chance is to flex their economic muscles, and even that may not work, considering the Charr war machine is largely self-sufficient.

#27 lmaonade

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:33 AM

Charr, they are born for war, and are naturally organized, structured, and disciplined. Even if the Asura could reverse engineer the Charr's weapons and technology, it would do them no good, since it's probably inferior to what the Asura can produce, the part that Asura cannot reverse engineer, and the part that will win the Charr the war, would be Culture. The Charr have a aptitude for war, and therefore are naturally better at waging it, while the Asura are not.

Edited by lmaonade200, 13 August 2012 - 12:33 AM.


#28 Kupo

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:38 AM

asura will win

brain > brawn

#29 Crosier

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:42 AM

It would swiftly devolve to a lengthy guerrilla war, I imagine. Rata Sum would fall and officially the Charr would be victorious, but many different isolated krewe's would develop many different technologies and weapons. Every fight would be unpredictable for the Charr and over the years, shadowy and highly mobile groups of Asura armed with experimental tech would inflict significant losses on the Charr forces occupying their lands.

#30 Lyssa's Muse

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:43 AM

Asura are very unlikely to attack the Charr head on, even they know it would futile. They would let the Charr come to them. The terrain of the Shiverpeaks and the Maguuma would greatly hinder a Charr army and their siege weaponry. Even if they did manage to take Soren Draa, Rata Sum is nigh impregnable.

On the other hand, Asura lack the clout or organisation to stage a counter-offensive. So it's a stalemate.




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