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Defensive condition build


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#1 Fade_Guin

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 12:53 AM

Just something I tossed together for fun. No idea how viable it would be, P/D and SB:

http://tinyurl.com/8o4ezbq

Defenses:

- 2075 Toughness (3139 armor total)
- Runes of the forge (Protection <33% damage reduction> for 12s at 50% health + burn nearby foes,3s of burning)
- Instinctual Response
- Pain Response
- Last Refuge
- Superior sigil of purity

Bleed damage: 93/tic
Poison Damage: 187/tic
Burn Damage: 588/tic


Poison sharing for team mates and for one-on-ones, drop Ambush trap (35 second CD), pop the poisons (sharing them with the thief) and engage.

While health is low (12805), toughness is very high, heals (boosted by 375) are a higher %, plus leeching venom will help keep your health up, and if things go bad, you have several defenses that will come into play starting at 50% and/or a 20% damage in one hit. While not guaranteed, you have purity sigils and pain response to handle possible conditions.

For real fun, drop ambush trap and pop thieves guild for 3 thieves, all sharing your venom.

#2 ßoß

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 01:02 AM

View PostFade_Guin, on 13 August 2012 - 12:53 AM, said:

Just something I tossed together for fun. No idea how viable it would be, P/D and SB:

http://tinyurl.com/8o4ezbq

Defenses:

- 2075 Toughness (3139 armor total)
- Runes of the forge (Protection <33% damage reduction> for 12s at 50% health + burn nearby foes,3s of burning)
- Instinctual Response
- Pain Response
- Last Refuge
- Superior sigil of purity

Bleed damage: 93/tic
Poison Damage: 187/tic
Burn Damage: 588/tic


Poison sharing for team mates and for one-on-ones, drop Ambush trap (35 second CD), pop the poisons (sharing them with the thief) and engage.

While health is low (12805), toughness is very high, heals (boosted by 375) are a higher %, plus leeching venom will help keep your health up, and if things go bad, you have several defenses that will come into play starting at 50% and/or a 20% damage in one hit. While not guaranteed, you have purity sigils and pain response to handle possible conditions.

For real fun, drop ambush trap and pop thieves guild for 3 thieves, all sharing your venom.

I kinda had the same idea of a survive build, don't have much toughness but more of a survive with control type of build along with a 36 second stun/condition removal plus buff elite. Mine ended up with more health than toughness and my dodges doing about 3 things lol (Might, remove cripples/weakness and drop caltrops for bleed/cripples).

I assume mine wouldn't end well but filed it away in my favorites as "Stupid but try anyway".

As for yours I think I might like it better lol, Ill file yours away as a try out build also.

#3 Drekor

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 05:53 AM

You will get absolutely mauled by condition damage which is very popular atm.

#4 Nore

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 07:01 AM

Thief is really wrong class to stack condis with .You lack condi removals yourself and have no reliable way to apply them. If you want condi class - check out engineer.

On your participial build - purity not gonna save you (10 sec ICD). 12k HP - toughness not gonna save you.

#5 LUDAK987654

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Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:32 AM

As long as u keep distanc e that build will work ,
sigils do not stack on 1 weapon set
shamna jewell wont help much and runes could be better but wth ,try it ,it might work for u.
And with  12k hp ,u will die in 5-10s against another con build.

#6 Khalif

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 05:40 PM

View PostNore, on 13 August 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

Thief is really wrong class to stack condis with .You lack condi removals yourself and have no reliable way to apply them. If you want condi class - check out engineer.

On your participial build - purity not gonna save you (10 sec ICD). 12k HP - toughness not gonna save you.

oh really? no reliable way...weird:

http://www.youtube.c...hxdZLd6Q#t=248s

14 stacks in 2 secs? i think that is pretty "reliable" and efficient in my book.

Edited by Khalif, 14 August 2012 - 05:41 PM.


#7 Ponzio

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:22 PM

View PostKhalif, on 14 August 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

oh really? no reliable way...weird:

http://www.youtube.c...hxdZLd6Q#t=248s

14 stacks in 2 secs? i think that is pretty "reliable" and efficient in my book.

View PostKhalif, on 14 August 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

oh really? no reliable way...weird:

http://www.youtube.c...hxdZLd6Q#t=248s

14 stacks in 2 secs? i think that is pretty "reliable" and efficient in my book.

He didnt remove the conditions, can you permanently stack the conditions on the target like a necro or engi can? If not it all will be negated with one condition removal.

#8 Karisu

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:38 PM

View PostPonzio, on 14 August 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

He didnt remove the conditions, can you permanently stack the conditions on the target like a necro or engi can? If not it all will be negated with one condition removal.

Not all condition removal removes all conditions. Most of them only remove one or two, and Thieves can put a pretty big variety of conditions on. Most of them can be reapplied pretty easily. Pistol bleeds on auto attacks just like Engi. While we may not be as strong in the condition damage department as Engis, we're not particularly weak in it either.

#9 Nore

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 06:48 PM

View PostKhalif, on 14 August 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

oh really? no reliable way...weird:

http://www.youtube.c...hxdZLd6Q#t=248s

14 stacks in 2 secs? i think that is pretty "reliable" and efficient in my book.

Watched it again, yeah I underestimated caltrops my bad, it really lays down persistent condition. But - you can avoid it. You dont have other reliable ways. I still think thief is pretty bad at applying damaging conditions - without thiefs guild any competent player can easily negate the damage . Just most people dont know about caltrops yet

Quote

Pistol bleeds on auto attacks just like Engi. While we may not be as strong in the condition damage department as Engis, we're not particularly weak in it either.

Engi also has traits like burn and bleed on crit. And ALL 5 attacks on pistol apply conditions (opposed to just one for thief). Then every kit has 2 to 4 condition applications. And then engi is actually durable enough to sit and stack em - thief not so much , and his main condition application are trough expensive and/or unreliable moves.  You can beat condition thief rather easily if he doesnt have thiefs guild up

Edited by Nore, 14 August 2012 - 06:53 PM.


#10 Khalif

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 08:13 PM

View PostPonzio, on 14 August 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

He didnt remove the conditions, can you permanently stack the conditions on the target like a necro or engi can? If not it all will be negated with one condition removal.

you are very seriously underestimating thieves..

i'd suggest you watch some of my PVP vids, and see how often i place bleeds on targets

View PostNore, on 14 August 2012 - 06:48 PM, said:

Watched it again, yeah I underestimated caltrops my bad, it really lays down persistent condition. But - you can avoid it. You dont have other reliable ways. I still think thief is pretty bad at applying damaging conditions - without thiefs guild any competent player can easily negate the damage . Just most people dont know about caltrops yet



Engi also has traits like burn and bleed on crit. And ALL 5 attacks on pistol apply conditions (opposed to just one for thief). Then every kit has 2 to 4 condition applications. And then engi is actually durable enough to sit and stack em - thief not so much , and his main condition application are trough expensive and/or unreliable moves.  You can beat condition thief rather easily if he doesnt have thiefs guild up

you are underestimating pistols:

1 bleed (Easy auto attack)
1 vulner
1 daze
1 blind.

p/p

right there...

#11 Ponzio

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:32 PM

Theirs a reason why people

View PostKhalif, on 14 August 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

you are very seriously underestimating thieves..

i'd suggest you watch some of my PVP vids, and see how often i place bleeds on targets

I didnt undestimate thiefs, it was a honest, not trolling question if you can pressure with conditions constantly.

#12 Drekor

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 11:21 PM

View PostPonzio, on 14 August 2012 - 06:22 PM, said:

He didnt remove the conditions, can you permanently stack the conditions on the target like a necro or engi can? If not it all will be negated with one condition removal.
Thief can stack conditions faster than necro, engineers are still top of the food chain for conditions though. A standard P/D thief can stack 3 conditions per second with ease which will overload nearly everyones removal mechanics.

#13 Nore

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 11:26 PM

View PostKhalif, on 14 August 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

you are underestimating pistols:

1 bleed (Easy auto attack)
1 vulner
1 daze
1 blind.


Only ony of which is actually damaging condi . I am not trying to say your build or your thief is bad (quite the contrary), what I am saying  thief is not prime class to deal conditions damage with. Venom sharing build is good with conditions because he applies them to his whole team and even to thiefs guild thieves.  Not because thiefs are amazing at conditions.  Necro and engi are amazing. Thief? -merely mediocre

Quote

A standard P/D thief can stack 3 conditions per second with ease which will overload nearly everyones removal mechanics.

3 per second? Trough  means of divine intervention? You also forgetting that one condi removal will remove all the stacks you got , not just one.

Edited by Nore, 14 August 2012 - 11:29 PM.


#14 jarryd

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 11:42 PM

View PostNore, on 14 August 2012 - 11:26 PM, said:

3 per second? Trough  means of divine intervention? You also forgetting that one condi removal will remove all the stacks you got , not just one.

I think he meant that even if you do cleanse the stacks, they will be stacked quickly again.

#15 Drekor

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:10 AM

View PostNore, on 14 August 2012 - 11:26 PM, said:

3 per second? Trough  means of divine intervention? You also forgetting that one condi removal will remove all the stacks you got , not just one.
C&D>Sneak Attack> Vital x3 with earth sigils will get 9 and the rotation takes 3s (so 3 per second). The best condition removers tend to be able to get maybe 1 removal per 5s. With a normal P/D build 5s is going to be between 7-9k damage depending on crits from scratch with no conditions already on target. Most classes have a hard time taking 7k to the face every 5s and surviving very long. If you aren't removing conditions that fast the damage spikes through the roof and you'll be looking at around 13-15k.

#16 Khalif

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:43 AM

View PostPonzio, on 14 August 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

Theirs a reason why people

I didnt undestimate thiefs, it was a honest, not trolling question if you can pressure with conditions constantly.

the answer to your question, yes, yes i can.


anytime my target has 7stacks of bleeds minimum




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