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"There Will Be Blood" - Warrior Condi-Dmg Guide

warrior condition sword build guide rifle longbow condi-dmg spvp bleed

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#1 Ayestes

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:02 PM

SPvP Build: "There Will Be Blood"
Primary Weapons: Sword, Shield, Rifle, Longbow
Style: Condition Damage / Survivability / 1v1 / Control
Updated: August 10th Stress Test

Build Sites
GW2 Skills
GW2 Build
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Detailed Quick Information
Mending, Balanced Stance, Bull’s Charge,
25 Strength: Restorative Strength, Distracting Strikes
30 Arms: Deep Cuts, Blademaster, Furious
15 Defense: Missile Deflection
Amulet - Rabid (Condition Damage+++, Toughness++, Precision++)
Jewels - Berserker (Power+++, Precision++, Vitality+, CritDmg+)
Runes - Runes of Undead (Condition Damage, Toughness, 5% Toughness as Condition Damage)
#1 Sigils - Superior Earth (60% oC Bleed) / Superior Blood (30% oC Life Steal)
#2 Sigils - Superior Earth (60% oC Bleed)

“There Will Be Blood” - Summary
The "There Will Be Blood" build focuses primarily on condition damage. It also supports a healthy amount of direct damage from various sources that increase Power such as Might, the Strength Tree, and the Berserker’s Jewel. The primary strength of it is the high strength bleeds with all the condition damage at +75% bleed duration. The second strength is its sheer durability with high Toughness and high amounts of defensive actives. The third strength is its ability to counter the majority of builds out there in the current environment through control and mobility. You have a lot of extra tools to kite the melee builds, and the tools to melee the kiting builds. This means you always fight on your terms, and those terms are rather bloody. That damage output of a fully adrenaline charged Flurry is something that seems to shock everyone, especially in this build.

Why Sword/Shield, Rifle, and Longbow? - Weapon Selection
Naturally, the best condition damage weapon on the Warrior is the Main Hand Sword. This traditionally pairs nicely with the Offhand Sword. The Offhand Sword however, just has some problems. The durations on the bleeds are so long especially coupled with this bleed duration increase that it's nearly guaranteed they will either be dead or have it cleansed before it is removed. Then the application isn't guaranteed either, Impale is rather easy to dodge and Riposte does not guarantee the target is applied with bleeds. Most of your bleed damage comes from the Main Hand Sword anyway, and what do you want while your target is bleeding? Time. The Shield gives you that with both of its abilities.

The Rifle is ideally, in my opinion, a direct damage weapon. However, that does not make it a bad condition damage weapon. The damage output is only a little below in a condition damage build then a direct damage build. The reason we pick the Rifle, is because it pairs with the Sword so well. A ranged weapon switch is highly useful. The ability to kite and deal damage while you close in, chase, and overall improve your play is extremely valuable. Heck it even gives you an extra knockdown to couple with Kick. That's a total of 3 stuns or knockdowns, which is fairly impressive for a build that traditionally wouldn't have it. Oh, and never use Kill Shot in this build unless you are bored. Why? It's meant for direct damage builds with some swap Sigils.

The Longbow, is flat out better for team fights then the Rifle. You should always be willing to swap out the Rifle if you desire a more team fight oriented role. The ability to give yourself and allies a Fire Field is excellent support in itself combined with the AoE Damage you can unleash given high condition damage and decent direct damage. Follow up every Combustive Shot with an Arcing Arrow for a free 105 Condition Damage and Power, to your entire group. Beyond that the abilities are extremely good providing Blind, Immobilize, and in general more attacks to Burn with. The only thing it’s not good at comparably is to the Rifle in single target combat. It’s actually pretty capable when you have to use it in single target combat though, so don’t completely despair.

The Bleed Choices - Condi-Dmg Trait Selection
Naturally, a Precision Condition Damage build needs the Arms tree. You may as well get all of it. It’s possible to sacrifice it for specific builds, but for our purposes we will adore it. Arms gives you both the stats you need, and all the major and minor traits you desire. The extra bleed duration on Deep Cuts is mandatory for any condition damage Sword build on the Warrior, no exceptions. It turns Flurry into a destructive behemoth capable of inflicting more damage than any other Burst Skill we have. Blademaster gives us the extra crit for even more proc effects, and even more damage. The last trait choice is Furious. Frankly, we lack much for adrenaline generation in this build. However, Furious lets you gain adrenaline from Flurry crits allow you to charge adrenaline rather quickly. Coupled with the high crit rate as well, it gives you anywhere from 50% to 90% more adrenaline generation. This trait solves our general adrenaline issues and gives us a comfortable amount at all times. The minor traits focus on giving us extra bleeds, critical chance, and just more damage against anything we fight. Arms is a natural choice to this build.

In the Defensive category, you have some straight forward picks. I love Reflection, maybe a little too much. The ability to subtract damage (and possible control) done to yourself and add it to the enemy is a major advantage. Giving your Shield the ability to reflect missiles is just game changing. The Sword's weakness is excessive kiting beyond the leaps of a Sword/Shield build. If they do that, you simply pop reflection and it’s possible you could steal the advantage away. Keep in mind good players will stop attacking you, but remember you can always catch mid-air projectiles with it. Adrenal Health is fantastic when you have enough adrenaline generation, especially when using the Rifle since you don’t want to use Kill Shot.

Strength to me for the longest time has been a bad choice in condition builds. I think I was wrong. The free condition duration is obviously, pretty good. The extra Power is invaluable, since the Sword, Longbow, and Rifle all have great direct damage values. The traits it offers are absolutely fantastic as well. Restorative Strength turns Mending into a damage condition stripping machine. Remember that it cleanses the last two conditions placed and refreshed on you, but only after it removes Weakness, Chill, Cripple, and Immobilize. This is very much likely to be the bleeds and other damage conditions on you, often turning into a huge damage prevention skill. Distracting Strikes is something I initially thought was horrible, but now realize the potential of it. It’s supplementary damage, and in some cases can turn into a primary source of damage. It adds a little bit of condition overload and can create opportunities for 1000 to 4000 damage depending on their attack speed. The reason I stop at Stick and Move, is also the desire for Adrenal Health. Stick and Move is 10% more damage when you aren’t full on endurance. Coupled with the additional 10% more damage to bleeding targets, 1300 Power, and extremely high crit rate you are doing a healthy amount of direct damage. The extra endurance and dodge bonuses are just gravy at this point. The condition duration in particular in Strength adds to your Immobilize and Fear durations, which again are extremely powerful. I love having Strength in a condition build.

Sheer Damage - 1300 Power, 1200 Condi-Dmg, +75% Bleed Duration, 90% Flurry Crit Rate
I'd just like to emphasize the damage output of this spec. A fully charged Flurry averages over 11,000 damage. That is mostly from conditions, since that is how Flurry is designed. However, your auto attacks from the Rifle, Longbow, and Sword both put out a decent amount of direct damage as well. 1300 Power is actually quite a lot considering what else this build offers in damage multiplication (+10%, +10%), coupled with the extremely high crit rate. You do over two-thirds the direct damage of someone who is specialized in dealing that direct damage combined with an absurd amount of strength from bleeds. Even when someone is immune to conditions in some form, you still do plenty of damage. Not to mention, with all of this... you still have a lot of bonus Toughness as well. This mathematically appears to be the highest amount of mitigation value factored in with damage output you can do, period.

Charging, Screaming, Juggernaut - Utilities
What you are looking for here, are counters to other skills and enhancing what you bring to the table. Control and Anti-Control are the goals here. The first choice of Mending comes quickly, as it offers condition removal and the quickest cooldown on our heals. By using condition removal in our healing slot, we don’t need to take it in our utility slots. Do try to use Mending early in the fight, as the cooldown is short enough to often come back up by the end of it. However, if you know what you are fighting you better not blow it early if you are going to need the condition removal later.

The Utility Skills to me are what win you fights. They are how you differentiate yourself. If you can eek out the extra control and prevent your opponent from controlling you, they are not only at a disadvantage mechanically but likely in terms of morale as well. It sucks to not have control over your character, and almost just as much when your control isn’t working on your opponent. Thus I wanted Stability and a Stun Break, and Balanced Stance gives you that. Not only does it give you anti-control in general, it’s essential in dealing with the downed state. Nothing but Fear can stop you. Bull’s Charge was one I didn’t have for a long time. However, it’s a fantastic multi-purpose skill. It’s an extra interrupt (awesome for Distracting Strikes) and an additional gap closer. Those shadowstepping Thieves can still get slammed with Bull’s Charge, for example. Last but most certainly not least, is Fear Me!. This skill is very deserving of its long cooldown. It’s AoE Ranged Control that can be used while incapacitated or channeling your own skills. It can be extremely offensive and extremely defensive as well as providing you excellent ability to deal with the downed state. With this build, it also approaches a 4s fear duration which is devastating. If you use it right after a Flurry and Cripple, it’s almost like a 4s stun in which they have to eat all of the bleeds.

For the Elite choice, it’s actually fairly situational. Rampage contrary to popular belief, is actually pretty good in a duel situation. I personally don’t like it very much though. The Banner is a fantastic revival tool, but at the moment it doesn’t pulse anything beyond the initial plant of it. I’m not sure what to make of it because of that. The Signet of Rage gives you Swiftness, of which you dearly lack, and in general is a fantastic power up, especially for duels. Don’t be afraid to use it. Sure the adrenaline generation is okay, but the active effects can change the fight drastically. You can utilize Might and Fury extremely well, and Swiftness is essential in terms of countering other builds.

Amulet, Runes, Sigils - The Meat of the Blood
The Rabid Amulet is ideal for many reasons. Effective condition damage only requires two stats, Condition Damage and Precision with proc effects. This has that, and comes with a boatload of Toughness to skyrocket your mitigation. Why Toughness and not Vitality? Because it's better in longer fights of which you are always a part of once you factor in self-healing and other healing sources. Not to mention, the better you are with actively mitigating your damage (read, the better you are at this game) with dodges, interrupts, and other active defenses the better Toughness is for you as a stat. The Berserker Jewel gives you that little extra oomph of direct damage to make sure that it’s competitive. The Rune choice here is fairly straight forward, as it boosts you similar to how the Amulet does. More condition damage and toughness, but feel free to experiment here. The Sigils are obvious, with Earth being the primary choice. Rather than getting only an extra 24% chance out of doubling up on the Sigils as well, picking up the Blood Sigil lets you outlast your opponent and deal a decent amount of direct damage as well. About 450 health stolen per proc is quite a lot, especially when you attack so often.

Tips and Tricks of the Bloodied
Ideally you start a fight with the Rifle. If it's a target you want to engage with the Sword, you apply Vulnerability and Cripple while you close in. If it's a target you want to engage with the Rifle, well hey you already have it out and you should whack em’ with Volley. Remember to always apply Vulnerability before you use Volley in this situation. Save Rifle Butt for when you need to interrupt your target. Fighting at a distance is rather straight forward, just keep moving and disallow them as much time to damage you as you can. Never use Kill Shot, save your Adrenaline for either your regeneration trait or for a Flurry when you decide to close in. Unless your target is surrounded by a metric ton of hostiles, it's always a good idea to close in for the kill. Generally you want to fight the ranged targets in melee, and the melee targets at a range. Unless they can outkite you or outchase you, of course.

In an ideal fight that you want to fight with the Sword, you have just engaged your target with the Rifle for a short bit and applied Vulnerability and Cripple. As you close in, with whatever adrenaline you have you will want to Flurry as quick as you can even at low levels. If it's not high enough, build it up with the auto-attacks as they swing rather fast. If you are just about to clip into another adrenaline bubble, wait for that. The tooltip for Flurry lies, it does more damage with more adrenaline. Literally linearly as well, it strikes 8 times / 10 times/ 12 times depending on your adrenaline level. Yeah you read that right, it strikes 12 times applying 12 separate 3s duration bleeds and proc'ing a whole metric ton of on-crit effects while keeping your opponent Immobilized. After a Flurry, you need to interrupt the heal and/or condition removal, which typically comes right after your Flurry. So use one of your interrupts if you have them still. At that point, defend yourself with the blocking, as they will have to use other skills while their emergency skills cooldown. Ideally you can tell what they are doing, and react that to that, but a basic rule of thumb is to interrupt immediately after Flurry and then defend yourself. After that, interrupt them again. Now you've done more than 11,000 damage to your target while they have been nearly helpless the entire time, literally unable to recover their lost health at all. Given appropriate judgment with how much damage your Flurry will do, you can kill people before they ever use their Healing Skill.

To catch a target, the Sword Leap combined with the Shield Leap Stun covers an incredible amount of distance. If that fails, then switch to the Rifle. You really can't be kited in this build as you have so many options. Bull’s Charge can get you close even more than just your standard charges. Don't forget the reflecting projectiles tactic with the Shield. You also have Swiftness from your Elite, and anti-kiting tools in Mending. You should be able to out chase kiters, and out kite chasers. This is the easiest way to get an advantage over your opponents.

It should be noted, that the Downed State is an important concept to deal with.  It seems obvious, but keeping your allies alive and your targets dead is essential.  This build has a lot of tools to deal with the downed state.  Stability and Fear Me! can guarantee many stomps and revives.  The Sword's leap can get you in range of a target quickly to stomp as well.  If an enemy is reviving or stomping, you have Shield Bash, Rifle Butt, Bull's Charge, and Fear Me! to interrupt it.  If you lack any of those options, just Flurry right on top of them.  Whack them both with as much damage as you can, since not only do you delay the revive any bleeds on the downed target will still be on them while they get up.  You can actually in a way, use the downed state as bait in a 1v2 to cause both of them to position themselves perfectly for a double Flurry.  At this point, you can probably deal with two downed targets instead of one downed and one alive.   Be aware and revive your allies as you have the durability to often withstand the process.  

Variants of the Bloodied Gladiator
To begin with, every build has things some people won’t like. It’s not raw effectiveness, it’s actually personal taste. You may or may not like everything in the build. Guild Wars 2 is designed so that you can actually have a lot of personal input even on a popular style of build. I’m also not always right in regards to total effectiveness, but that’s subjective and situational too. If your role changes, it’s likely your traits need to change. Even more so than just swapping out the Rifle for the Longbow, you may want to make deeper changes in the traits, runes, and sigils.

Tactics and Rune of the Soldier – As Sabre has pointed out in other discussions, this build is really good. Getting the healing shouts and additional condition removal can make you a lot more resilient to condition damage. If condition builds become more popular, then this will be a very strong choice for a variant. It would be recommended that you pick up the reduced shout cooldown and either Leg Specialist for the control or Empower Allies for the extra Power. You should probably go all out with the Shout build at this point, and focus on that.

Orrian and Doom – Replacing the Sigil of Blood with Doom, and getting Orrian runes instead of Undead is something I’m looking at a lot lately. The concept of overloading your target with conditions is a viable thing, and in general Poison is an extremely powerful condition to lay on your target. This gives you two long lasting ways to land it on your target, and even emergency Quickness at low health. You lose a little survivability though, and burst damage.

More Defense – This is always an option if you feel the need to simply be able to take more damage. I’d pick up Shield Master most likely for the second trait. It’s a tossup between Spiked Armor, Embrace the Pain, and Defy Pain (which I think is still good) for the third choice though. Keep in mind, if you go into Defense ay further at all, get the 25 point minor trait for its extra Power.

Fast Hands – This is an option if you desire the extra weapon swap capability. Sometimes you just feel like you have to have it. I personally have learned to live without it. As for the choice of major trait, I would likely pick up Mighty Defenses. After a Shield Block, I’d probably have a whole lot of Might to fight back with.

Hybridized with Power – I honestly hate the Vitality on the Carrion Amulet, but it’s perfectly reasonable to run a lower crit variant and get a good chunk more out of Power. Personally though, I really like Toughness especially in longer fights.  There are very viable ways to run this build.

Musketeer and Embrace the Pain – This is an alternative route if you want to keep the adrenaline generation in general while making the Rifle all that much more powerful. Piercing shots are absolutely incredible, but I tend not to take it anymore because I don’t’ rely on it for a team fight. Ideally I’d have the Longbow to use, but honestly I’d probably rather charge in and rack up the bleeds on everyone while using my superior mitigation to take some of the damage.

+100% Bleed Duration – This would give you the extra tick on Flurry bleeds, bumping up the damage by over a thousand.  You could do this by picking up the Lyssa 2 piece rune bonus for +10% Condition Duration, and any +15% Bleed Duration bonus.  This could devastate targets that lack condition removal, and gives you the most potential damage possible.  Just be careful for that aforementioned condition removal.  It's the most efficient stat, and the most efficient place to leave the stat in terms of added damage.  As Zerikin Loukbel has mentioned, it'd be easy to add in +15% Burning Duration as well to fit in a nice +100% Bleed Duration, +50% Burn Duration, on top of +35% Other Condition Duration.  

Much, much more! – Remember there are tons of variants that are viable.  Especially when it comes to utilities, you aren't restricted to any due to traits.  Use what you need, not what your build's traits demand.

Counters List
Being Kited - Chasing Opponents with Sword/Shield
Weapon Swap to Rifle (Bang, Bang), Savage Leap (Leap 600), Hamstring (Cripple 8.75s), Shield Bash (Leap 300, Stun 1s), Shield Stance (Block & Reflection 3s), Mending (Condition Removal), Bulls Charge (Knockdown 2s), Balanced Stance (Stun Break), Signet of Rage (30s Swiftness), Fear Me! (Fear up to 3.75s, ideally while Crippled or into a wall)

Kiting Target - Kiting Opponents with Rifle
Aimed Shot (Cripple 7.5s), Rifle Butt (Knockdown 2s, Knockback 450), Mending (Condition Removal), Fear Me! (Fear up to 3.75s), Balanced Stance (Stun Break), Signet of Rage (Swiftness 30s), Bulls Charge (Knockdown 2s, Reverse Kiting Direction)

Combo Breakers - Anti-CC, CC, and Active Defenses
Shield Bash (Stun 1s), Rifle Butt (Knockdown 2s), Mending (Condition Removal), Bull’s Charge (Knockdown 2s), Balanced Stance (Stun Break, Stability 8s), Shield Stance (Block & Reflection 3s), Fear Me! (Fear up to 3.75s), Dodge (Never Forget)

Video Footage
This video footage was taken with this Rampager Amulet Variation slowly changing over to this Longbow Style Variant over the August 2nd Stress Test.  It was mostly me testing things out, since it's important to remember this build has lots of viable variants.  Beware though, this footage's frame rate may make your eyes bleed as much as my opponents did.   Too bad it's before I found out how awesome Distracting Strikes is though.  



The footage below was taken with the full "There Will Be Blood" build, with a little bit of the Orrian variant.  However, since the Doom Sigil wasn't working as I had intended (internal cooldowns preventing other Sigils from working), I didn't stick with that for very long.  This features some good use of Distracting Strikes, and also has a good few places of me just being awful at the game.  


Edited by Ayestes, 20 August 2012 - 08:45 PM.


#2 TakumiUsui

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:11 PM

The Build looks really good! I like how it is quite flexible and compatible with many utility skills.

#3 Engel Jorgenson

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 09:12 PM

Thank you for sharing, very helpful and instructive thread.

Edited by Engel Jorgenson, 14 August 2012 - 09:12 PM.


#4 Zerikin Loukbel

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:01 PM

Nice write up.

How exactly does the bleeding damage on flurry work out? 8/10/12 stacks that last 2s base? If duration is rounded up the +75% duration should be enough to get 4s ticks on flurry.

#5 Ayestes

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:03 PM

As far as I know, it's rounded down.  This was with my testing in BWE2.  I've seen other people say it was rounded up, down, or even somehow averaged out.  Honestly, I'm not exactly certain with this.  My calculations are usually done with it rounding down though meaning we get 3s Flurry Bleeds.  Until I see video evidence or a dev interaction involving it, I'm going to stick to that.

Edited by Ayestes, 14 August 2012 - 10:04 PM.


#6 Dimday

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:07 PM

Very good guide. Detailed and with a great layout. I also particularly like to see a well-designed build that does make some use out of the Strength line, which is rare to see (at least outside of 10p).

Thank you for writing this.

#7 Zerikin Loukbel

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:08 PM

View PostAyestes, on 14 August 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

As far as I know, it's rounded down.  This was with my testing in BWE2.  I've seen other people say it was rounded up, down, or even somehow averaged out.  Honestly, I'm not exactly certain with this.  My calculations are usually done with it rounding down though meaning we get 3s Flurry Bleeds.  Until I see video evidence or a dev interaction involving it, I'm going to stick to that.

Ok, if it was changed it was done in BWE3. I'll see if I can find the source for that.

Edit: Can't find anything. Anyone got time to test it during the stress test? I'm going to miss this one.

Edited by Zerikin Loukbel, 14 August 2012 - 10:30 PM.


#8 Haptic

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:43 PM

Will you be playing this build during the stress test tomorrow? I will be unable to play tomorrow, but would love to see more footage of this build in action!

#9 Ayestes

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 11:07 PM

Yeah I'm going to give it a shot.  I'll probably only record at 720p to try and get a better frame rate out of it.  I'd like to say I'd test the bleed duration quirks, but honestly I might be too carried away with playing it.

Edited by Ayestes, 14 August 2012 - 11:08 PM.


#10 Action Bastard

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 11:14 PM

May I recommend running 30% chance to gain might on critical and weapon swap instead of the bleed?  I could easily get 20-25 stacks of boosting my power from 1300 to 2100.  I could still apply 25 stacks of bleed with relative ease and game me more auto attack damage as well as making my bleeds tick for 140.

#11 Giac

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 11:15 PM

There's no rounding up when it comes to bleeds, poisons (damage portion) and burns. You get a tick each full second, if the effect runs out before the second is up, you lose a tick. Keep that in mind when you go for condition duration and make sure, that you don't waste stats in regards to your bleed durations.

#12 Haptic

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 11:17 PM

Also, would it not be better to just run the Rabid Jewel in addition to the Rabid Amulet, considering the synergy with Runes of the Undead? I'm not sure how much the Berserker's Jewel raises your direct damage, but I can't imagine it's worth losing the opportunity for that much additional condition damage and toughness.

#13 Ayestes

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 11:37 PM

View PostAction Bastard, on 14 August 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

May I recommend running 30% chance to gain might on critical and weapon swap instead of the bleed?  I could easily get 20-25 stacks of boosting my power from 1300 to 2100.  I could still apply 25 stacks of bleed with relative ease and game me more auto attack damage as well as making my bleeds tick for 140.


I actually dislike this.  I think you could fit it in over the Blood Sigil possibly, but I think it was Taugrim who once said you want to vomit  bleeds on the opponent however fast you can get it on them.  Mainly due to condition removal.   Therefore, you are going to want the Earth Sigil so you vomit these bleeds on the opponent as fast as you can.  Since  you have a high crit rate, you are close to netting yourself an extra bleed every time the internal cooldown expires.   I wouldn't ever use them to replace the Earth Sigils, but possibly the Blood Sigil.  Keep in mind though I typically only swap weapons to adapt to the situation, and not just for the sake of swapping weapons for on swap effects and to use all my cooldowns.   Also, with the possible 9s weapon swap Sigil cooldown it could hurt Battle Sigils quite a bit for Warriors with Fast Hands.

View PostHaptic, on 14 August 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:

Also, would it not be better to just run the Rabid Jewel in addition to the Rabid Amulet, considering the synergy with Runes of the Undead? I'm not sure how much the Berserker's Jewel raises your direct damage, but I can't imagine it's worth losing the opportunity for that much additional condition damage and toughness.

Yeah that's perfectly viable.  I just like having a healthy chunk of direct damage in case I meet someone near invulnerable to conditions.    With this spec, I've seen 3k to 4k Volleys.  That's fantastic to finish a fleeing enemy off.   It's a choice between more direct damage and more condition damage here to me.  I've run with both, and I always seem to favor the Berserker's.

#14 Epic_Bear_Guy

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Posted 14 August 2012 - 11:58 PM

Wow thanks a bunch, i was just thinking about making a bleed based warrior as of lately. It's the only warrior spec i havent tried yet but 25 bleed stack burst sounds awesome. Your timing is perfect :)

Edited by Epic_Bear_Guy, 14 August 2012 - 11:59 PM.


#15 sabresandiego

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:10 AM

Great build, I think its smart running with at least some direct damage, because there are some pretty hard counters to pure condition damage out there. It would be a tough choice between soldiers jewel and berserkers jewel, although I think soldiers would synergize better with undead runes.

#16 Ljiona

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:33 AM

I didn't see confusion land.  Am I blind or is it really that hard to land?  Seems like the target need to be casting a longer type skill, something like auto-attack won't trigger it.  Or does it not trigger an icon.

#17 Ayestes

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:50 AM

Yeah Soldier's Jewel would be an interesting option too.  I kinda want the crit damage though, since when you crit all the time you may as well eek out the additional damage that way.   Definitely a way to keep as much mitigation on you as you can though.  

Distracting Strikes only works on the interrupt, so they need to be mid-cast.  Generally as long as they are actually doing something (i.e. chaining their auto-attacks), you can get the Confusion on them.  I'll admit I find a surprising amount of people that aren't doing anything at all though.  I suspect it's part of the game being new and everyone suffering from inexperience.

#18 Gigashadow

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:25 AM

View PostAyestes, on 14 August 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

The last trait choice is Furious. Frankly, we lack much for adrenaline generation in this build. However, Furious lets you gain adrenaline from Flurry crits allow you to charge adrenaline rather quickly.

Are you sure about this?  Reviewing my stress test footage, I did not build rebuild adrenaline while flurrying (and it was critting a lot), and I'm pretty sure I had the Furious trait for the given footage.


View PostAyestes, on 14 August 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

A fully charged Flurry averages over 11,000 damage. That is mostly from conditions, since that is how Flurry is designed.

With 1200 condition damage, the bleed part should be ticking for about 105, and you have 12 of them lasting 3 seconds, so that's 3780.  The sigil will likely proc another 3 (at 0s, 2s, and 4s, given the 2s internal cooldown), each of which lasts 8s, for 2520 damage, for a total of 6300.  Does that sound about right for the condition portion, or did I miss something?

Edited by Gigashadow, 15 August 2012 - 05:44 AM.


#19 geala

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:34 AM

I like the build, well thought out. And your description is so awesome, a pleasure to read. I ran a similar build that I stole from yours in the old Warrior Build Thread. However I made bad experiences the last stress tests. I was often overloaded with conditions which also my latest build with 24k hp and three shouts and Soldier runes could barely manage sometimes (I have to say that it was just hot join megazerg sPvP where too many players are around all the time). And I often got extreme punishment during Flurrys. My Flurrys never did so much damage either although followed by shield stun and/or Fear me. About 5000 perhaps. How did you receive so much damage with Flurry?

#20 Egae

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 10:03 AM

Well sigil of earth now got icd of 2sec(tested last stress test, or at least some sort of cd), I think you might find it hard to stack bleed with your current build, I would properly go for sword/sword for the 25 stacks, dont get me wrong I think with this build you can still easily get to about 20, however anything more... will be a struggle, but I will try this build in few hrs time to see

#21 Twigfried

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:22 PM

Great guide Ayestes,

Been following a lot of what you and Sabre have been theorycrafting and it has been extremely helpful.

How do you feel this build will perform in a tPvP environment?

To-date I've focused more on DD builds because it's my theory that condition-based builds will suffer in a organized environment, where support builds and conditional removal will be more common.

What do you envision as it's optimal role (ie. roamer, defender, etc)?

Thanks.

#22 Ayestes

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:27 PM

View PostGigashadow, on 15 August 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:

Are you sure about this?  Reviewing my stress test footage, I did not build rebuild adrenaline while flurrying (and it was critting a lot), and I'm pretty sure I had the Furious trait for the given footage.

With 1200 condition damage, the bleed part should be ticking for about 105, and you have 12 of them lasting 3 seconds, so that's 3780.  The sigil will likely proc another 3 (at 0s, 2s, and 4s, given the 2s internal cooldown), each of which lasts 8s, for 2520 damage, for a total of 6300.  Does that sound about right for the condition portion, or did I miss something?

I only had the Furious trait for extra Adrenaline gain, and I noticed I often had 8 or so strikes recovered.  This was done during the Aug 9th, 10th, and 12th stress tests.  When hitting multiple targets, I once had enough adrenaline for a level 2 Flurry directly after using a Flurry, which was pretty nice.   It's possible it's a bug and it's working a little wonky though.  I was just really excited to see it happen.

1200 condition damage is 100 bleed damage I think, to be precise.  I was actually doing these calculation as if it were a 110 strength bleed, but honestly I think it ends up being more then that usually especially when you use Signet of Rage.  The damage was 1000 direct damage, 1500 from Blood Sigil procs (assuming 3), 4000 from the Flurry 3s bleeds, 2300 from 7s Earth Sigil procs (assuming 3), and 2700 from 7s Precise Strikes procs (assuming average of 3.5).  That's actually 11.5k, but I rounded it down to a be a bit safe.  If the target were empty of bleeds before you hit them, in this case they'd have an average of 18.5 bleeds from Flurry alone.

As for the internal cooldown on Sigil of Earth, it does dampen the build's old potential a fair amount, but these calculations are actually taking that into account or the Earth Sigil procs would be worth over 5000 damage.  However to be frank, I think it was overpowered before and Might adding condition damage somewhat counter-balances it for me.  You can still reach 25 stacks with a few extra attacks anyway, and then you have Confusion damage and possbily Poison damage if the Orrian build works out.

View PostTwigfried, on 15 August 2012 - 12:22 PM, said:

Great guide Ayestes,

Been following a lot of what you and Sabre have been theorycrafting and it has been extremely helpful.

How do you feel this build will perform in a tPvP environment?

To-date I've focused more on DD builds because it's my theory that condition-based builds will suffer in a organized environment, where support builds and conditional removal will be more common.

What do you envision as it's optimal role (ie. roamer, defender, etc)?

Thanks.

This is an interesting question, because I've thought about it an awful lot.  It really boils down to a bunch of speculation on my part.  I think it's an excellent duelist build and in team fights it is greatly amplified by other support.  Additionally in team fights it can pin down targets extremely well with Immobilize, Stun, and Knockdown enabling a target to be focus fired.  It's not a bad spec to force someone to blow their defenses and then call a target swap onto them as well.  

I think it's strength would be as a Roamer, but the ability to deal with the downed state and high mitigation meshes well with the support of another Roamer in a 2v2 or even if join up with the general team to fight a larger battle.  What you lack is extreme mobility, but Signet of Rage and the Sword Leap give this to you in enough quantity that I think is fine.  When I play open sPvP (as I haven't done tournaments since BWE2, and I did that as primarily a direct damage Musketeer), I tend to take on this role as well.  The only downside is it takes forever to kill a Trebuchet compared to being an Axe user with a Berseker's Amulet.  I really think a good Roamer needs to be good in Team Fights and Point Defense as well, since their situation can change rapidly, which this build feels fantastic at.  

Ideally, this spec doesn't lose 1v1 which is also why I think it makes a good Roamer.  However there will always be builds and/or players that outmatch you and in that case you need to swap roles or positions with your teams.  For example, Sabre's build pretty much destroys mine.  The Orrian variant may perform differently, due to condition overload, but it's likely that leaves other build weaknesses.  The point is no build is perfect, the only thing you can do is minimize your weaknesses and keep your advantages as consistent as you can.  The role of a Roamer needs to be flexible, and maybe traits need to change to fully adapt to that.

Edited by Ayestes, 15 August 2012 - 12:38 PM.


#23 Giac

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:34 PM

I guess I am alone in believing that while Sword is an excellent weapon (as in #1, 2 and 3), Flurry is terrible. The damage dealt with the Sword requires 100% dedication to melee range. You will eat so much damage and CC, that you better be very, very sturdy. With less than 19k HPs and less than 3k armor, you simply are not.

The price you pay for those 12 bleeds for 3s is way way too high. Even if you did 120 damage per bleed, you'd total out at 4320 for the bleeds. 4320 damage + the almost negligeable power damage is not worth being a sitting duck for 4 seconds. The burst ability for the Sword needs work.

Edited by Giac, 15 August 2012 - 12:35 PM.


#24 geala

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:42 PM

I wrote it above and elsewhere, I received a lot of damage during Flurry the last stress tests. Depended on the enemy, but was often also aoe. Sometimes my health went from 90% to 50% during Flurry. Switched to axe for sPvP, will remain sword in WvW.

Edited by geala, 15 August 2012 - 12:42 PM.


#25 Ayestes

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 01:04 PM

The reason Flurry does so much damage is the multi-attack portion though.  Even with internal cooldowns on the Earth Sigil and possibly the Blood Sigil in the future, it's over an additional 6000 damage in just procs.  I've also found that about 19k Health and 2900 Armor is more then durable enough, personally.  I did originally start with a 30 Defense variant of this build with Rabid Jewel as well, but I've enjoyed the Berserker Jewel and 15 Defense variant more, possibly due to more success but that's always difficult to determine in what little time we've had to play it.   I honestly think the price might be too... cheap, for what you get out of Flurry compared to the versions of Kill Shot and Eviscerate right now.  Blood Sigil helps out a bit too, as it heals you up while you Flurry.  

I do tend to avoid the large 6v6 zerg-fest fights though, so perhaps I take less random AoE damage then what a few have reported.  I think positioning is always an important thing though.  If I were to join the massive battles, I'd probably be sticking mostly to the Longbow and only closing in with the Sword for a kill.  Keep in mind too if you can position yourself behind the target for a Flurry, they can't turn around.  That can help sometimes too.

Edited by Ayestes, 15 August 2012 - 02:59 PM.


#26 Ozielol

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:08 PM

First off I'd like to say that the guide is great and formatted really well, while I don't agree with everything here I can understand where you're coming from for the most part. The one thing that is really bugging me with this build is the 20 point Strength trait. I don't understand what you expect to get from this Confusion? The only times you can interrupt a foe they are put into a stunned state. One stack of confusion on a usually stunned foe seems rather worthless, doesn't it?

Maybe I'm missing something, how long does the confusion last? I know it does quite a good bit of damage since you're a condi spec but I don't see how it could possibly be practical.

#27 Ayestes

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:16 PM

Distracting Strikes applies 3 stacks of Confusion at a base of 5 seconds whenever you interrupt the target.  These interrupts occur on stuns, dazes, knockbacks, knockdowns, and probably some other things I'm missing whenever they are effectively doing something.  This stacked confusion does over 500 damage per activation, and lasts a little over 6 seconds.  It's not a primary source of damage, but if I interrupt a target twice in a fight (I have three interrupts) and they activate it 3 times each, that's over 3,000 free damage.  Maybe that doesn't sound like that much, but if I did around 30,000 damage in a given duel that'd be an extra 10% damage dealt.  There have been cases I've experienced against fast attacking weapon sets that have caused over 4,000 damage from a single interrupt though. In an ideal case like this, it's absolutely devastating.  It's also an extra condition that contributes to condition overload.

Edited by Ayestes, 15 August 2012 - 03:18 PM.


#28 Ozielol

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:26 PM

View PostAyestes, on 15 August 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Distracting Strikes applies 3 stacks of Confusion at a base of 5 seconds whenever you interrupt the target.  These interrupts occur on stuns, dazes, knockbacks, knockdowns, and probably some other things I'm missing whenever they are effectively doing something.  This stacked confusion does over 500 damage per activation, and lasts a little over 6 seconds.  It's not a primary source of damage, but if I interrupt a target twice in a fight (I have three interrupts) and they activate it 3 times each, that's over 3,000 free damage.  Maybe that doesn't sound like that much, but if I did around 30,000 damage in a given duel that'd be an extra 10% damage dealt.  There have been cases I've experienced against fast attacking weapon sets that have caused over 4,000 damage from a single interrupt though. In an ideal case like this, it's absolutely devastating.  It's also an extra condition that contributes to condition overload.

The problem is I don't see how they will activate 3 times at all. Each of your stuns (bash and bulls) are for two seconds. I don't understand how a player will activate 3 skills in a total of four seconds if they are any competent at all. You'd be lucky to get one proc each essentially giving you a bonus 1500 damage. My problem with this is there are other 10 point traits that will even more significantly increase damage dealt.

Consider something like this http://www.gw2build....0.15.30.15.10.0
The build is changed very little but you will be gaining 3 seconds of fury on every Immobilize and causing immobilize everytime you cripple (Swords 3 and Rifles 2) giving you a very high up time of +20% crit over both weapons instead of just 10% for sword. It is also a much more bursty build as you will gain Fury everytime you activate  Flurry making Earth Sigil proc a lot more.

#29 Ayestes

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:43 PM

Shield Bash I don't believe is 2 seconds, it's closer to 1.   I think it's very easy to activate 3 skills in a 4 to 5 second duration, heck there are a lot of chain skills that activate faster then once per second.  I've seen cases in which another Warrior using the Sword was auto-attacking during the duration and caused 8 activations of Confusion.   Unless you are saying that they would purposefully not do anything over the 6 second duration?  I think I'd be rather happy if they did that.  I don't think 3 stacks of confusion is dangerous enough to warrant intentionally dazing yourself for the remaining 4 or 5 seconds.  

Other trait variations are certainly competitive and viable, I won't deny that.  What works for me doesn't necessarily work for everyone, especially with different roles or situations involved.   I'm not sure where you could find as much extra damage as Distracting Strikes and the total 25 points in Strength provides though.  Leg Specialist and Opportunist is a great combination, but the duration of these are pretty small.  I wouldn't argue against Leg Specialist being awesome, as any Immobilize is wicked at control.  However Opportunist's Fury only lasts a base of 2 seconds, which doesn't really contribute much beyond clever use ensuring it's active for Volley and of course the guaranteeing it's up during Flurries.   Considering I usually already have Fury from Signet of Rage in a fight that I'd consider important, I wouldn't see much difference.  Not that it's not viable, I just personally don't see the extra uptime as needed in the more duel-like situations I find myself in.   The build you've linked has also lost Blademaster, which is a lot of crit in itself lost.

Edited by Ayestes, 15 August 2012 - 03:44 PM.


#30 Kordos

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 04:04 PM

View PostOzielol, on 15 August 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

Flurry making Earth Sigil proc a lot more.

Once the new patch drops, Earth Sigil [2s internal cooldown] is only proccing 2-3 times per Flurry, regardless of your crit rate.




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