87 replies to this topic

[Giac]

I thought I had posted this already, but perhaps I wasn't clear.

There's no need for further testing, as I can absolutely and with 100% certainty state that all sigils share the same ICD now.

So yes, if you proc Rage, you won't see another proc for 45 seconds.

Edited by Giac, 19 August 2012 - 03:28 AM.

[selfconfessedcynic]

Giac, on 19 August 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

I thought I had posted this already, but perhaps I wasn't clear.

There's no need for further testing, as I can absolutely and with 100% certainty state that all sigils share the same ICD now.

So yes, if you proc Rage, you won't see another proc for 45 seconds.

At least for now - I think it's silly and is hopefully a bug which will be remedied.

Did you get to test sigil of blood? I think that was one of the few along with earth which didn't have any ICD back in BWE3, and earth has clearly changed.

ED: Also, is there a compendium of the data you have collected / what experiments y'all have done?

It'd be interesting to learn what you have found in addition to double checking your methods. I also wouldn't have to ask every time I have a question : )

Edited by selfconfessedcynic, 19 August 2012 - 04:17 AM.

[Zinn]

Giac, on 19 August 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

I thought I had posted this already, but perhaps I wasn't clear.

There's no need for further testing, as I can absolutely and with 100% certainty state that all sigils share the same ICD now.

So yes, if you proc Rage, you won't see another proc for 45 seconds.

Well, lets just say that it will be a quick way to test if something has changed then.

[Rp40]

http://gw2skills.net...Puik sqYUxWkZAA

More blood bath. Sharing but also posting somewhere so I can come back to it laster.

[Giac]

selfconfessedcynic, on 19 August 2012 - 04:12 AM, said:

At least for now - I think it's silly and is hopefully a bug which will be remedied.

Did you get to test sigil of blood? I think that was one of the few along with earth which didn't have any ICD back in BWE3, and earth has clearly changed.

ED: Also, is there a compendium of the data you have collected / what experiments y'all have done?

It'd be interesting to learn what you have found in addition to double checking your methods. I also wouldn't have to ask every time I have a question : )

I tested blood, earth, rage and all the weapon swap sigils (also mixed). A compendium of tests we have done and will continue to do in the future is not a bad idea actually. Keep checking http://www.facebook.com/Sealclubbers every now and then as we will post final results there first and now that you have given me the idea, I am sure we'll work on something (something along the lines of a test subject, test results and testing methods spreadsheet).

[Swiftly]

GenericWarrior, on 18 August 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

This build is crap guys, can't you see it? 18k HP and only 1 skill to remove conditions means any other condition dealing build with ranged options (thief, engineer, necro) will destroy you, also direct damage is way too low with 1300 power, meaning even with 50% crit chance you will lose to people running with at least 3-4 condition removals.

The build is fine.  The build is not a 3 button IWin combo, but is  effective against a lot of players and builds nonetheless.  Try actually playing the build before just spouting theory crafted opinion.  Also might try watching the video Ayestes posted where 90% of the fights are against either the classes you listed or against classes with good condition removal.

[selfconfessedcynic]

Giac, on 19 August 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

I tested blood, earth, rage and all the weapon swap sigils (also mixed). A compendium of tests we have done and will continue to do in the future is not a bad idea actually. Keep checking http://www.facebook.com/Sealclubbers every now and then as we will post final results there first and now that you have given me the idea, I am sure we'll work on something (something along the lines of a test subject, test results and testing methods spreadsheet).

Haha - didn't know you guys were German. Things make sense now : )   Nice post on condition conversions by the way, I hadn't seen it before.

Anyway, thanks for taking the idea into consideration. A scrutinisable scientific listing would be an excellent resource for yourselves and others (especially others : D ). Keep up the good work!

[Zinn]

Giac, on 19 August 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

I thought I had posted this already, but perhaps I wasn't clear.

There's no need for further testing, as I can absolutely and with 100% certainty state that all sigils share the same ICD now.

So yes, if you proc Rage, you won't see another proc for 45 seconds.

How does this interact with non proc sigils?  Lets say I have 5% damage as one sigil and hydromancy as the other.  When I switch weapons and the hydromancy procs, do I lose my 5% damage?

[Ayestes]

I'm thinking of using more of the Longbow for some reason lately.  Something about the footage difference between my first and second video is persuading me to do it, but I can't quite put my finger on it.  I want to give the +50% Burning/+100% Bleeding/+35% Other Duration increase build a try.

Edited by Ayestes, 21 August 2012 - 03:00 AM.

[Giac]

Ayestes, on 21 August 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

I'm thinking of using more of the Longbow for some reason lately.  Something about the footage difference between my first and second video is persuading me to do it, but I can't quite put my finger on it.  I want to give the +50% Burning/+100% Bleeding/+35% Other Duration increase build a try.

The Longbow has a certain appeal to it. Unfortunately there are all kind of issues and bugs to be aware of.

Just a to name a few:

- Burning duration increases of any kind beyond the 30% from the trait line simply do not work and I have no idea why

- Fan of Fire is supposed to have a DD portion and a 2s burning. Oddly enough instead of getting 2 ticks of burning, you only get 1 tick. You are better off resting your fingers rather than using. That's how utterly useless it is.

- The autoattack scales with power, though it is super weak due to being really slow (remember that autoattack will make up most of one's damage). The reason is probably to be found in the combo finisher (imo this is just not good enough of a reason)

- Arcing Arrow scales with power and the in-game tool did suggest it would have a 4s burning attached. This might just be a tooltip
bug, but there's no burning whatsoever (mind you, this ability deals very decent damage already)

-  The Longbow really relies on the pairing of two abilities. Arcing Arrow and the burst ability Combustive Shot (burst ability first, followed up by Aricing Arrow for the combo). That's all you have got. That wouldn't even be bad if it weren't for the fact that they are both ground target AoEs and scale with different stats, forcing you to use the carrion amulet.

[Eszver]

Nice post showing a proper warrior condition build. Ayestes, I personally would use the Longbow. I found that making people worry about mutliple conditions a lot easier to deal with then me just applying one condition all the time, plus imo I like the skills more for the bow. Especially if it's used well in teamplay.

~(New Players)If you are worried about getting hit by other people's condition damage you can slap on 5 "Runes of the Solider" This will gain you the trait to remove a condition when using a shout utility skill. I would recommend the "For Great Justice" and "Shake It Off" as shouts. But do know, by doing this you are losing some bleed dmg on your side. You can also use the "Melandru rune set" that could help you alittle bit versus conditions, if you want different utility skills besides shouts.

*What bugs in Longbow, NOOOOOOO! Well it's been since BWE2 since I touched it last, actually. Trying too many other classes/builds since then, still I loved the bow on my condition build in BWE2.(Based on old as dirt experience now I guess) lol

Edited by Eszver, 21 August 2012 - 06:47 AM.

[Ekryth1]

Ayestes, I've noticed in your videos that you've used the traits: furious and last chance.  Which one do you prefer?

Edited by Ekryth1, 21 August 2012 - 06:49 AM.

[Giac]

Zinn, on 20 August 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

How does this interact with non proc sigils?  Lets say I have 5% damage as one sigil and hydromancy as the other.  When I switch weapons and the hydromancy procs, do I lose my 5% damage?

Okay, not sure how I missed this post, but non-proc or passive effect sigils have static effects that are completely independent of any sigil's ICD.

[geala]

Giac, on 21 August 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

The Longbow has a certain appeal to it. Unfortunately there are all kind of issues and bugs to be aware of.

Just a to name a few:

- Burning duration increases of any kind beyond the 30% from the trait line simply do not work and I have no idea why

- Fan of Fire is supposed to have a DD portion and a 2s burning. Oddly enough instead of getting 2 ticks of burning, you only get 1 tick. You are better off resting your fingers rather than using. That's how utterly useless it is.

- The autoattack scales with power, though it is super weak due to being really slow (remember that autoattack will make up most of one's damage). The reason is probably to be found in the combo finisher (imo this is just not good enough of a reason)

- Arcing Arrow scales with power and the in-game tool did suggest it would have a 4s burning attached. This might just be a tooltip
bug, but there's no burning whatsoever (mind you, this ability deals very decent damage already)

-  The Longbow really relies on the pairing of two abilities. Arcing Arrow and the burst ability Combustive Shot (burst ability first, followed up by Aricing Arrow for the combo). That's all you have got. That wouldn't even be bad if it weren't for the fact that they are both ground target AoEs and scale with different stats, forcing you to use the carrion amulet.

Very good information, thank you. I use the longbow a lot (because I like the style) and I'm every time again impressed how much it is lacking.

May I ask a question about the burning duration test? I don't like Facebook and cannot look on your page there. I'm going to get rid of my shout build and planing to use traits and runes and sigils which would  result in a 60% longer burning (I think 85% is the maximum?). That would be senseless according to your info. We have afaik only 2 sec burns, what does a 30% prolongation mean? I thought that duration is always rounded down and a damage condition ticks only every full second. That would mean a 30% increase would change nothing? Or is it rounded up from the 2,6 sec to 3 sec, so three ticks instead of two?

For me the combination of Combustive Shot and Arcing Arrow is not so impressive. You get area might, there are better combos around.

Edited by geala, 21 August 2012 - 07:30 AM.

[Teilion]

Ayestes, on 21 August 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

I'm thinking of using more of the Longbow for some reason lately.....but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Area might is sexy

[Ayestes]

Ekryth1, on 21 August 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

Ayestes, I've noticed in your videos that you've used the traits: furious and last chance.  Which one do you prefer?

Furious, at least when I lack another trait that helps with adrenaline.  Probably Furious in general though for a condition damage build, as it really only helps with the downed state (which is good I admit) since they are probably bleeding themselves out after 25% anyway.  Last Chance is amazing with direct damage though.

[Zinn]

Giac, on 21 August 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:

The Longbow has a certain appeal to it. Unfortunately there are all kind of issues and bugs to be aware of.

Just a to name a few:

- Burning duration increases of any kind beyond the 30% from the trait line simply do not work and I have no idea why

I knew about the fan of fire only doing 1 sec, but I didn't know about this one.  That does indeed suck.  I'm hoping you submitted a ticket and it is fixed for todays stress test.

[Zerikin Loukbel]

Zinn, on 21 August 2012 - 01:28 PM, said:

I knew about the fan of fire only doing 1 sec, but I didn't know about this one.  That does indeed suck.  I'm hoping you submitted a ticket and it is fixed for todays stress test.

I noticed this with some runes last stress test and submitted a bug report on it. I was trying to get up to the 50% burning duration and nothing would increase it.

[frettr00]

I played this spec for the first time today and it was a lot of fun.  I did die more than I liked, but most of that was me being foolish and getting caught by 2-3 enemies at once.  I did pretty well overall in 1v1s.

[Ayestes]

frettr00, on 22 August 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

I played this spec for the first time today and it was a lot of fun.  I did die more than I liked, but most of that was me being foolish and getting caught by 2-3 enemies at once.  I did pretty well overall in 1v1s.

That's good to hear.  The survival of it went down with the shared internal cooldown on Sigils, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do with that.  Blood was a lot of health gained.

[frettr00]

Ayestes, on 22 August 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

That's good to hear.  The survival of it went down with the shared internal cooldown on Sigils, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do with that.  Blood was a lot of health gained.

I tweaked the original version for a more defensive variant, also using passive crit sigil in place of blood.  At first I was worried about the loss of power, but going far enough into defense gives that 5% of toughness into power trait so you get the best of both worlds.  That and more toughness increases condition damage due to Rune of the Undead. The only thing I'm a bit torn between is shield master or embrace the pain.  If adrenaline still builds fast enough, i'll use shield master, if not then embrace the pain.   http://gw2skills.net...NtqYUxpiNCvKmEA

Edited by frettr00, 22 August 2012 - 04:07 PM.

[Teilion]

After the blood nerf in general I found myself just getting out of fights sooner if things got hairy. Leap around a corner, LoS until mending comes up again and turn around to chop bad guys up if they thought chasing a 1v1 warrior was a good idea.

Defense specs are always a struggle cuz Embrace, Deflection, and Shield Master are all so good. I usually pair Embrace with Furious Strikes to build crazy adrenaline. But I really do feel the lack of deflection

[frettr00]

Anyone try using Healing Surge with this instead of Mending?  It heals for 2-3k more, 5 second longer cooldown, and gives 10 adrenaline. It seems like this would work well with a build that is fueled by adrenaline.  You get less condition removal than Mending, but still benefit from Restorative Strength.  This might help make up for the lack of healing which the blood sigil used to provide.

Edited by frettr00, 23 August 2012 - 09:44 AM.

[dhesse1]

@Ayestes I've played a similiar build (s/s + rilfe) and I have two questions.


1. Why is Sigil of Superior Geomancy no option on the swords? Usually when i'am switching from rifle to swords i'am in melee range and the bleed stack is spreading to nearby foes. (but it was nerfed down to 5s....gw2skills is not uptodate)

2. When i take the other route with sigil of earth (bleeds through crit) wouldn't axe a better option as a second weapon?  Axe #4 applies two stacks Fury and Whirlwind is hitting 15 times without self root. This would make speccing into the condition duration (aka strength) traitline more suitable (Dual Wielding).

[Ayestes]

Sigil of Earth has a 2 second internal cooldown, which is why the Axe is now unfortunately really bad for applying the bleeds.  Geomancy would be better if you were constantly switching weapons every 10 seconds in melee with the target though.  

Healing Surge is a viable replacement if you want to sacrifice a little condition removal.

[Angrymime]

Loving this build.  Fits my playstyle and would love to hear about any improvements/changes from the OP.

[Ayestes]

I'd update it, but I actually ended up rolling a Mesmer.  Not that I don't value the Warrior, I think it in the end mixes with my playstyle (and team) more.  The first time I tried it it was terribly unfinished and it left a bad taste in my mouth, so I played the Warrior instead.  I think Sabre had a few refinements on it, but I'm not sure if he's spending time on a condi-dmg build these days.  

The real question is what do you do with the double sigil option under Sword, since you can't take two on-crit (or an on-swap) sigils anymore. I'd almost consider going with Blood over Earth, for the survival mixed with an Accuracy Sigil.

[DocR0ck]

Just wanted to say that I tried your build today. I am for sure no pro-player and it was the first time I really went into some real sPvP action at GW2. Well yeah, so far I've won 100% of all my matches with a very good 1:1 ratio and the build is such a huge step up from my old ygs/Rifle levelling spec. I am aware that this is not a decent messurement fior professional competition, but it works fine for me.