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support healing engineer pve dungeon

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#1 Misleading

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 02:36 AM

Hello everyone.

After a ton of back and forth, I've settled on Engineer for my main class upon release.  I've always played a healer class in my MMOs, so I was looking for a profession that can somewhat fill that role with condition removal, boon application, and healing in PvE.  

I didn't play much of the class during the BWEs (only participated in the last one), so I'll definitely be tinkering during the stress test tomorrow and any other chance I get before release.  I was just fooling around with the skill calculator and threw together a bomb-healing build.  My main goal for this setup is dungeon PvE groups.  PvP is a whole other beast that I haven't started to look into yet.

What I'm really looking for by posting is some critique from those who have played the class more and can spot some flaws in the build.  One thing that comes to mind is the fact that it's too heal heavy and there are not enough boon application skills.  The only things I have to drop some boons are Elixir B and the Elixir Gun at the moment.

Also, the cornerstone of the build is the Elixir-Infused Bombs trait.  Can anyone tell me if the damage of the bomb explosion directly scales with the size of the heal given off?  In other words, by stacking power (making my bombs hurt more), will that make them heal more?  If that's the case, I would probably get rid of Elite Supplies and swap in Energized Armor to get some more power in the build.

Any input/help/criticism is appreciated!  Thanks for taking a look.

Link to the build: http://gw2.luna-atra...k9s9vamapbebjkd

#2 heatzzz

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 03:12 AM

You could have done some research.

On Support builds:
http://www.guildwars...uild-questions/

On Elixir Bombs:
http://www.guildwars...-infused-bombs/

All skills that are base on healing are only affected by Compassion/Healing Power.

#3 Misleading

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:27 PM

You guys have such a way with making a person feel welcome.

View Postheatzzz, on 15 August 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

You could have done some research.

On Support builds:
http://www.guildwars...uild-questions/

On Elixir Bombs:
http://www.guildwars...-infused-bombs/

All skills that are base on healing are only affected by Compassion/Healing Power.
This is at least helpful.  I apologize, didn't see it stickied, didn't search the forum.  There should be a nice sticky at the top with all the Engineer FAQs.

View PostSqiud, on 15 August 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

This isn't World of Warcraft.
Yeah, thanks man...didn't realize after reading the previous 1000 topics in which this was posted.

#4 tyresias11

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:37 PM

View PostSqiud, on 15 August 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

This isn't World of Warcraft.

And you are not funny.

OP, check the links heatzzz posted and forgive his bitterness.

I m on the same boat with you. I m always playing the healer/support in other videogames and i attempted something similar also here even if i knew that the holy trinity does not exist and there is no dedicated healer. That being said, there is some professions that excell in support and engineer is one of them. However, i found the aggresive support and control to be another form of damage mitigation instead of passive healing. Much more valuable if you ask me in all parts of gw2 so far. The healing you can achieve through different classes using different methods is usually minimal and really doesnt worth that one blind who could cancel a powerful attack leading to someones death.

I suggest you experiment -if you havent done so yet- with more kinds of support. I found the healing bombs to be rather weak. Not to mention is almost impossible to be effective in wvw and pve since it puts you in grave danger.

I know its a little bit off topic but i just thought to say my two cents for the sake of encourage you to tinker with a more aggresive support build via poisons, blinds, vuln, and ofcourse all kinds of boons.

ps: sorry for the English.

#5 Misleading

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:52 PM

View Posttyresias11, on 15 August 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

And you are not funny.

OP, check the links heatzzz posted and forgive his bitterness.

I m on the same boat with you. I m always playing the healer/support in other videogames and i attempted something similar also here even if i knew that the holy trinity does not exist and there is no dedicated healer. That being said, there is some professions that excell in support and engineer is one of them. However, i found the aggresive support and control to be another form of damage mitigation instead of passive healing. Much more valuable if you ask me in all parts of gw2 so far. The healing you can achieve through different classes using different methods is usually minimal and really doesnt worth that one blind who could cancel a powerful attack leading to someones death.

I suggest you experiment -if you havent done so yet- with more kinds of support. I found the healing bombs to be rather weak. Not to mention is almost impossible to be effective in wvw and pve since it puts you in grave danger.

I know its a little bit off topic but i just thought to say my two cents for the sake of encourage you to tinker with a more aggresive support build via poisons, blinds, vuln, and ofcourse all kinds of boons.

ps: sorry for the English.

Yeah, that's what I was coming to find out.  The links Heatzzz posted suggested the bomb heals are pretty weak.  I was also considering by going solely healing, my character would lack in other vital areas (support and control) which would prove to be more beneficial to my group's well-being.

Thanks for the reply, I'll be tinkering today and up until release (and surely after release as well).

#6 Sqiud

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:54 AM

My point is that no matter how hard you try support builds, they are going to be lackluster. GW2 does not support the support playstyle.

Good luck though. I'd be happy if you were to prove me wrong. I was once a support player.

#7 Morhilion

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:59 AM

View PostSqiud, on 16 August 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

My point is that no matter how hard you try support builds, they are going to be lackluster. GW2 does not support the support playstyle.

Good luck though. I'd be happy if you were to prove me wrong. I was once a support player.

Take a look at a support staff ele then come back please. Don't make ignorant comments like "GW2 does not support the support playstyle" when you have not looked around at what other classes have to offer and how people play in tournaments(i don't pve).

#8 Sqiud

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:02 AM

<3 So hostile. <3

Don't tell me what to do.

Or how about

Don't make ignorant comments like "Take a look at a support staff ele then come back please. Don't make ignorant comments like "GW2 does not support the support playstyle" when you have not looked around at what other classes have to offer and how people play in tournaments(i don't pve). "

Edit: I'm well aware of the support in the game. But the full support playstyle is represented nowhere effectively.

Edited by Sqiud, 16 August 2012 - 01:03 AM.


#9 Morhilion

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:04 AM

View PostSqiud, on 16 August 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

<3 So hostile. <3

Don't tell me what to do.

Or how about

Don't make ignorant comments like "Take a look at a support staff ele then come back please. Don't make ignorant comments like "GW2 does not support the support playstyle" when you have not looked around at what other classes have to offer and how people play in tournaments(i don't pve). "

I'm not hostile. And i don't see how that is ignorant as i am providing knowledge about the game and how an ele can provide regen and condition removal for his entire squad. Trolls will be trolls i guess.

#10 The Eggman

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:06 AM

View PostSqiud, on 16 August 2012 - 01:02 AM, said:

<3 So hostile. <3

Don't tell me what to do.

Or how about

Don't make ignorant comments like "Take a look at a support staff ele then come back please. Don't make ignorant comments like "GW2 does not support the support playstyle" when you have not looked around at what other classes have to offer and how people play in tournaments(i don't pve). "

Edit: I'm well aware of the support in the game. But the full support playstyle is represented nowhere effectively.

There are definitely very viable support builds around for multiple classes in tournament play. But support is different than HEALER. There is not a healer playstyle that is effective for a class. Plenty of support/control builds though.

#11 Manzana

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:07 AM

Grenade radius has changed from 240 to 120, I believe, so that may be something to keep in mind.

#12 Misleading

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:26 AM

View PostSqiud, on 16 August 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

My point is that no matter how hard you try support builds, they are going to be lackluster. GW2 does not support the support playstyle.

Good luck though. I'd be happy if you were to prove me wrong. I was once a support player.
When you compare them to a healing class in WoW, yes, they will be lackluster.  I have yet to experience any party PvE play but I assuming support roles play a vital part of a group's success in a dungeon.  

View PostThe Eggman, on 16 August 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

There are definitely very viable support builds around for multiple classes in tournament play. But support is different than HEALER. There is not a healer playstyle that is effective for a class. Plenty of support/control builds though.
Looking for a pure healing build was a mistake.  Right now, from what I've read, the closest/best comparison to a dedicated healer is water ele.  What I am looking to do is make my Engineer as support-specced as possible; a build focused on helping my group and not as much damage as possible.  The bomb-healing is out, so now it is back to the drawing board and I will be looking and tinkering more this evening.

EDIT: Came up with this atm: http://gw2.luna-atra...2b6b9bebebjkbkd
More a boon applicator with a nice revive if things start to get hairy.  Less healing and more support.

Edited by Misleading, 16 August 2012 - 01:26 AM.


#13 heatzzz

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 04:08 AM

Try use this Skill Sim instead:
www.gw2skills.net/editor/en/
This site always keeps up on updated usually 1-2 days after a test.

Some data here you might need comparing 0 with 1388 Healing power:
Elixir Infused bomb - 176 : 285
Super Elixir - 380 (impact) & 140 (pulse) : 658 (impact) & 279 (pulse)
Area Healing via Blast finisher in Water Field - 1320 : 1598
Regeneration Boon - 130 : 304

As you can see the numbers are pretty lackluster, you will be sacrificing alot of Crit Chance for Healing power thats the difference between support & damage builds.

Edited:
Not quite sure if Elixir Infused bomb will be useful, but I rather put that 5 points somewhere else, maybe in Tool trait.

Edited by heatzzz, 16 August 2012 - 04:18 AM.


#14 coglin

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 04:13 AM

View PostSqiud, on 16 August 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

My point is that no matter how hard you try support builds, they are going to be lackluster. GW2 does not support the support playstyle.

Good luck though. I'd be happy if you were to prove me wrong. I was once a support player.
Not sure what game your playing, but support builds are very good, and very welcome. Although some professions are innately better at it. Pure healing and tanking builds are not good at all, but support and damage  builds work well

#15 Aitchkay

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 04:33 AM

View Postcoglin, on 16 August 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

Not sure what game your playing, but support builds are very good, and very welcome. Although some professions are innately better at it. Pure healing and tanking builds are not good at all, but support and damage  builds work well

I think people are still stuck in the mode that support = healing.  One of the things that Anet addressed in their blog is that healing is the weakest form of support, since it can only be reactive.  If you interrupt a Warrior that just started channeling 100b on a team mate that is CCed, how much damage did you just prevent?  Isn't this better than trying to heal this damage after it is already done?

#16 Thoran23

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 07:34 AM

View Postheatzzz, on 16 August 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

Try use this Skill Sim instead:
www.gw2skills.net/editor/en/
This site always keeps up on updated usually 1-2 days after a test.

Some data here you might need comparing 0 with 1388 Healing power:
Elixir Infused bomb - 176 : 285
Super Elixir - 380 (impact) &amp; 140 (pulse) : 658 (impact) &amp; 279 (pulse)
Area Healing via Blast finisher in Water Field - 1320 : 1598
Regeneration Boon - 130 : 304

As you can see the numbers are pretty lackluster, you will be sacrificing alot of Crit Chance for Healing power thats the difference between support &amp; damage builds.

Edited:
Not quite sure if Elixir Infused bomb will be useful, but I rather put that 5 points somewhere else, maybe in Tool trait.


dont just dont.
If you have the bombkit and a nice healing stat, go for elixir infused bombs its worth.
With dual super elixir, regeneration and those bombs together you will be able to heal pretty well and its aoe.
Not to mention the medkits, supplycrate and all the cc and combo fields you got.

http://gw2skills.net...qxUjoGbNuak1MIA

or for full defensive this one:

http://gw2skills.net...0loLrXOvkeN2YuB

Edited by Thoran23, 16 August 2012 - 07:36 AM.


#17 Inui

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 09:40 AM

I hope you guys won't get mad that I post my build here but I feel we miss a sticky Build-Thread here in the Engineer forum.

It's a build for sPvP.
My build is more indirect support, not by heals but more by CC like blinding or Knockback and a small Group buff in form of Elixir B.
Though I couldn't test the exact build, I had the traits altered by 10 points and different runes during the stress test.
I focus on attacking / defending the points, pushing the enemies away from the points and rescuing teammates via Flamethrower Knockback (or shield skill 4)

This one with Pistol skills CD -20% (0/10/20/30/10)
http://gw2skills.net...YkwIrROjkGNYY B

Or the same build but instead of Pistol CD -20% I got 10 more points in Tools (0/0/20/30/20) for Toolbelt recharge at 25% HP and 25% higher endurance regeneration.
http://gw2skills.net...YkwIrROjkGNYY B

#18 w0lly

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 11:30 AM

Quote


13 August 2012 - 04:11 PM
I think the Engineer can do more than people think. I came up with this build:

http://gw2skills.net...uxej7G5NjNObMbA

The traits can be changed a bit but the important parts are the kits, their toolbelt skills and the major traits "Kit Refinement" and "Elixir-Infused Bombs". Zebes mentioned that bombs don't heal for much but who else can boast spamable, targetted heals (plus they're not that bad with full healing stats)? Kit Refinement currently produces the Super Elixir effect when equipping the Elixir Gun (as detailed here) so switching to this and then waiting to use the actual Super Elixir means 100% uptime on a pulsing AoE heal and light field. The Elixir Gun's toolbelt skill "Healing Mist" provides 10sec Regen and the Healing Turret provides 8secs but these are buffed by 20% boon duration and Runes of Dwayna 20% Regen as well as the Runes 10sec Regen on heal skill use so that's 100% uptime on Regeneraton too. To sum up...
  • 100% uptime on Regen
  • 100% uptime pulsing AoE heal
  • 100% uptime light field
  • Condition removal from Fumigate, Cleansing Burst, Toss Elixir R and projectiles through light field
  • Retaliation through blast in light field
  • Weakness, blinds, cripples and knockbacks
  • 60sec CD on AoE revive with Toss Elixir R
  • Spamable (and fun) healing through bombs!
Nothing beats the Engineer for fun IMHO. I was also considering taking the Asuran D-Series Golem as an elite skill because he puts up an AoE shield and can take a bit of punishment. Not sure if that's more use than the Supply Crate yet.
I posted this in a general thread about support/heals. Someone had a go at me for leaving the extra jewels in so forget about them if needs be - they don't matter!

There's also a water field from the turret toolbelt before you put it down. Weakness, blinds etc. are important too. I might tweak it a bit in future. What do people think about the D-Series Golem?

#19 burpyierz

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 11:38 AM

Kit refinement when swapping to Elixir Gun gives regeneration? are ou sure of that?

Edited by burpyierz, 16 August 2012 - 11:40 AM.


#20 Rachmani

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 11:47 AM

View PostAitchkay, on 16 August 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

I think people are still stuck in the mode that support = healing.  One of the things that Anet addressed in their blog is that healing is the weakest form of support, since it can only be reactive.  If you interrupt a Warrior that just started channeling 100b on a team mate that is CCed, how much damage did you just prevent?  Isn't this better than trying to heal this damage after it is already done?

View PostAitchkay, on 16 August 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

I think people are still stuck in the mode that support = healing.  One of the things that Anet addressed in their blog is that healing is the weakest form of support, since it can only be reactive.  If you interrupt a Warrior that just started channeling 100b on a team mate that is CCed, how much damage did you just prevent?  Isn't this better than trying to heal this damage after it is already done?

Totally true. I played this build yesterday, with which I've been tinkering around over the course of the last few stress tests.

http://gw2skills.net...touxcj4G7Nubk3A

I will probably change it further but as of yesterday I was able to ress my teammates, secure stomps, buff and remove conditions from them and cc some of our enemies with rifle 2 & 4. Was also able to tank like a boss.
I don't remember exactely how many games I've played but I died roughly once per game and only when I decided to rush in like a pro(fessional suicidal).

What I'd like to test out further is something like this, though I'll probably miss overcharged shot:
http://gw2skills.net...rouxcj4G7Nubk3A

#21 heatzzz

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:09 PM

View Postburpyierz, on 16 August 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

Kit refinement when swapping to Elixir Gun gives regeneration? are ou sure of that?

Nope Kit Refinement when swapping to Elixir Gun gives Super Elixir.

#22 bobudo

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:49 PM

View Postheatzzz, on 16 August 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Nope Kit Refinement when swapping to Elixir Gun gives Super Elixir.

I tried this out yesterday - it's amazing. A healing build that doesn't include this is doing it wrong. It was good enough that I'm considering sticking with a healing build full time - everyone can do damage, but I don't know if any other class can heal like an engi.

#23 heatzzz

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:00 PM

View Postbobudo, on 16 August 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

I tried this out yesterday - it's amazing. A healing build that doesn't include this is doing it wrong. It was good enough that I'm considering sticking with a healing build full time - everyone can do damage, but I don't know if any other class can heal like an engi.

I know Guardian have alot of healing skill but they provide burst heal as most of the heal skill are high in recharge.
Read that Ele is pretty good at that too.

TBH healing skill aren't that fantastic for Engineers, it might be useful in DEs but dungeon wise I'm not quite sure though you can still support your mates with other varieties of utilities.

#24 tbox

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:15 PM

Bomb radius got nerfed like 240 to like 160.   Unfortunate really  with dodge rolls etc dunno why they Did it.

#25 Misleading

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 12:56 PM

View Postheatzzz, on 16 August 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

I know Guardian have alot of healing skill but they provide burst heal as most of the heal skill are high in recharge.
Read that Ele is pretty good at that too.

TBH healing skill aren't that fantastic for Engineers, it might be useful in DEs but dungeon wise I'm not quite sure though you can still support your mates with other varieties of utilities.
That's how I'm feeling about the situation now.  Engineer does have some potential with elixir-infused bombs but I think it's more beneficial to concentrate on support and control (read: boons/condition removal and interrupts).  If you want pure healing, the closest and most successful you'll get is guardian or elementalist.


View Postw0lly, on 16 August 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

I posted this in a general thread about support/heals. Someone had a go at me for leaving the extra jewels in so forget about them if needs be - they don't matter!

There's also a water field from the turret toolbelt before you put it down. Weakness, blinds etc. are important too. I might tweak it a bit in future. What do people think about the D-Series Golem?
This seems pretty awesome, though, when you put it that way.  It's certainly going to be fun leveling and tinkering with various different builds.

#26 Bloodtau

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 01:01 PM

View PostSqiud, on 16 August 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

My point is that no matter how hard you try support builds, they are going to be lackluster. GW2 does not support the support playstyle.

Good luck though. I'd be happy if you were to prove me wrong. I was once a support player.

Tell that to the guardians.

You are following this game, right?

#27 Sqiud

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 07:22 PM

View PostBloodtau, on 17 August 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Tell that to the guardians.

You are following this game, right?

You mean the "support guardians" that defend points and nothing else?

You are trying to be sarcastic right?





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