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SPvP Multiple Condition's (Combo Field's)

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#1 Bashere

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 04:20 PM

Hello everyone,

First and foremost I am no professional pvper. I can tell you that I have a-lot of pvp experience across many genres and games. I am also an avid theory crafter and like to make new builds in my spare time.

This one particular build is one that I am working on for my teams 5v5 comp. The general logic is to supply combo fields and condition damage to help the team. This is a very well rounded build and can be used to either defend or attack a point with the team. I made sure to put in plenty of condition removal since that seems to be the favorite build currently for most classes. I can kite most Direct Damage and since toughness only affects direct damage I didn't go overboard with it.

The guide that I post below goes into in-depth detail. I am always looking for criticism to better my build and play. I would like some feed back to hopefully make this a very competitive pvp build. I would like some specific help on choosing an optimal amulet/rune set.

Edited: http://www.gw2build....heory-1755.html

I just want to go ahead and say thanks to the people who do provide feedback.

Edited by Bashere, 16 August 2012 - 03:43 PM.


#2 Sycthrex

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:23 PM

Well straight off, wouldn't Frost Trap over Spike Trap be better considering Spike Trap does not leave a combo field?
Also, swapping Vigorous Renewal for Master Trapper would make much more sense with the 20% CD reduction on Traps.

Hide in Plain Sight is more viable than Oakheart Salve becuase you have no Healing Power so the Regeneration you gain is pretty small.

The 10 Points you put in to Nature Magic could probably be put somewhere else, like in MM for the added Power.

You are a little low on Toughness and would get 2-3 shotted by a Glass Cannon, why don't you use Rabid Amulet/Jewel?
This would make your Traps and Conditions deal a lot more damage therefore being more useful in a Team Fight.

Currently you would seem pretty useless, Combo Fields won't make your Team win, can you even 1v1 with this or have you not tried?

You mentioned that Call of the Wild adds 15s of Might, this is wrong... we gain Might every time our Pet attacks and you have to remember that they nerfed Sharpened Edges so we can't stack 25 Bleeds as easy anymore.

There is quite a few flaws in this build but if you make it work who am i to say it's bad

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Need help with something? Feel free to PM me.

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#3 Nettle

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 05:59 PM

View PostBashere, on 15 August 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

snip

Assuming this is a team support build with a condi focus.

What pets are you bringing?  That makes a difference.  If team fights are your focus, I'd highly suggest a moa.  Fury moa if your team comp has any physical builds.  You can afford to drop horn with that moa.  Unfortunately prot moa seems to have broken duration last I checked, or it would be a solid choice as well.  The other could probably be a dps pet.  Bear pet if your team needs more condi removal.  Since you aren't investing in pets at all, tankier or supportive options are probably more ideal than dps.

Agreed with the above about traps.  If your focus is fields, switch out spike for frost.  Also I'd think hard about bringing trap potency instead of honed axes.  Double trap aoe condi duration in a condi build is very good.

Oakheart salve can be ok.  I'm not a fan of hide in plain sight as suggested.  HiPS triggers on disable.  You can still be hit while stealth, so if some 100b warrior knocks you down and 100b you, its gonna hit you whether you are stealth or not.  It's not efficient.  Consider wilderness knowledge since you are bringing SS and entangle.

You have no stun breaks.  Be very, very careful to dodge all those charging warriors ;)

I strongly recommend not going MH axe on both sets.  The CDs dont reset when you swap, so you are somewhat gimping yourself.  Consider using axe/torch as your primary damage set, and swapping to sword/horn only to apply the buff.  That way you also get poison from the sword.  Or bring a fury moa, drop horn altogether and do SB instead, which is a superior condi set.

Regens from nature magic could be good because you have lots of it in this build.  I would personally invest this in BM, but I tend to favor pets and builds with at least a little in BM.  It's worth experimenting with those last 10 points.  That's a preference call IMO.

View PostSycthrex, on 15 August 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

You mentioned that Call of the Wild adds 15s of Might, this is wrong... we gain Might every time our Pet attacks and you have to remember that they nerfed Sharpened Edges so we can't stack 25 Bleeds as easy anymore.

Call of the wild is aoe might.  You are thinking Rampage as One :P

#4 Sycthrex

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:13 PM

View PostNettle, on 15 August 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:


Call of the wild is aoe might.  You are thinking Rampage as One :P

Ah shoot yeah, my brain is maffled since doing this guide

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Need help with something? Feel free to PM me.

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#5 Anelyn

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:30 PM

View PostSycthrex, on 15 August 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

Ah shoot yeah, my brain is maffled since doing this guide

Here have a cold beer mate, relax for a bit and prepare for stress test! :)

#6 Bashere

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:55 PM

View PostSycthrex, on 15 August 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Well straight off, wouldn't Frost Trap over Spike Trap be better considering Spike Trap does not leave a combo field?
Also, swapping Vigorous Renewal for Master Trapper would make much more sense with the 20% CD reduction on Traps.

Hide in Plain Sight is more viable than Oakheart Salve becuase you have no Healing Power so the Regeneration you gain is pretty small.

The 10 Points you put in to Nature Magic could probably be put somewhere else, like in MM for the added Power.

You are a little low on Toughness and would get 2-3 shotted by a Glass Cannon, why don't you use Rabid Amulet/Jewel?
This would make your Traps and Conditions deal a lot more damage therefore being more useful in a Team Fight.

Currently you would seem pretty useless, Combo Fields won't make your Team win, can you even 1v1 with this or have you not tried?

You mentioned that Call of the Wild adds 15s of Might, this is wrong... we gain Might every time our Pet attacks and you have to remember that they nerfed Sharpened Edges so we can't stack 25 Bleeds as easy anymore.

There is quite a few flaws in this build but if you make it work who am i to say it's bad

I appreciate the constructive criticism that I have received so far. This build isn't all about combo fields that just happens to be a strong bonus. The spike trap is mainly for the cripple which has saved my butt more than once.

I do like the suggestion on dropping the 10 points out of vitality and putting them into MM or BM. I did notice that the regeneration was kinda blah when I tested it. I will probably end up picking Hide in Plain Sight.

In regards to the toughness this is totally false. I am actually rather hard to kill due to being able to dodge all the time combined with entangle and spike trap. You can dodge most nukes from just about any class. Toughness is also not as good at vitality in the games present state. Toughness is actually not a very good stat unless you invest in in heavily.

This is a good read on toughness vs vitality http://teamlegacy.ne...vp/page__st__40

This build actually does amazing in 1v1. They super buffed the torch and it hits like a truck now. When you combine this with the bleed burst there is some insane dmg. Burns are the hardest hitting condition so flame trap also does a fair chunk of damage when you get both of them to stack the duration.

I am considering getting a moa as a swap pet and going with the short bow instead of axe/warhorn.

#7 Sycthrex

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:59 PM

I'm still a little unsure when it comes to Toughness vs Vitality, thanks for the link

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#8 Bashere

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:15 PM

The main problem is that  toughness does nothing to help you against condition damage. It does help against DD (Direct Damage) quite a bit though ,but then so does vitality. It is a balancing act that you have to play. I sacrificed on toughness because I can dodge and kite most peoples DD.

View PostNettle, on 15 August 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:


I strongly recommend not going MH axe on both sets.  The CDs dont reset when you swap, so you are somewhat gimping yourself.  Consider using axe/torch as your primary damage set, and swapping to sword/horn only to apply the buff.  That way you also get poison from the sword.  Or bring a fury moa, drop horn altogether and do SB instead, which is a superior condi set.

Regens from nature magic could be good because you have lots of it in this build.  I would personally invest this in BM, but I tend to favor pets and builds with at least a little in BM.  It's worth experimenting with those last 10 points.  That's a preference call IMO.


In my detailed guide I discuss what pets I will be using. I also posted the burst rotation in the comments and maybe that will explain why I use warhorn and double axe.

I do like the idea of dropping the 10 points from vitality though and putting them in BM or MM. The extra condition damage from traps is another trait I am going to test. You may be right that it is a much better trait.

I also post an alternative weapons section where I mention the use of the shortbow as an alternate way to play this build.

Thanks for the advice though.

#9 Nettle

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:35 PM

Honed Axes has been nerfed to 10% more critical damage when wielding an axe in the main hand.  Granted this affects all your damage now and not just the axe's, its a big number drop.

#10 Bashere

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 12:02 AM

View PostNettle, on 15 August 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

Honed Axes has been nerfed to 10% more critical damage when wielding an axe in the main hand.  Granted this affects all your damage now and not just the axe's, its a big number drop.

Wow thanks for the information shortbow here I come.

#11 Bashere

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 03:38 PM

I revised this build after the last stress test.

If you guys could take a look at it and provide suggestions that would be awesome.

http://www.gw2build....heory-1755.html

Thanks

#12 Bakelith

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 04:03 PM

Check out the boar pets, forage gives you some nice environnemental weapons depending on the pet you choose (conditions, control, heal, support).
Plasma gives you all buffs for 10s. Scale can poison for 20s, weaken and bleed for 10s and is ranged. Egg regen iniative and heal. And so on.
When out of combat you can quickly switch pets and spam the skill so that other teamates can get some, but remember that the item disappear after some time if not picked/used (can't confirm but I think it's arround 30s).
http://wiki.guildwar...t_of_pet_skills

Can't say those are the best pets you could use but you might find something interesting to play with

Edited by Bakelith, 16 August 2012 - 04:12 PM.


#13 Bashere

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 06:02 PM

View PostBakelith, on 16 August 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

Check out the boar pets, forage gives you some nice environnemental weapons depending on the pet you choose (conditions, control, heal, support).
Plasma gives you all buffs for 10s. Scale can poison for 20s, weaken and bleed for 10s and is ranged. Egg regen iniative and heal. And so on.
When out of combat you can quickly switch pets and spam the skill so that other teamates can get some, but remember that the item disappear after some time if not picked/used (can't confirm but I think it's arround 30s).
http://wiki.guildwar...t_of_pet_skills

Can't say those are the best pets you could use but you might find something interesting to play with

I was already thinking about using forage I just don't know how hard it will be to use the items in Spvp. In the heat of battle I can see people just ignoring the items all together. I was thinking a tanky pet like a bear and a pet that applies bleed or poison.





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