132 replies to this topic

[ProfGast]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't a Light combo field + Projectile Finishers or Whirl Finishers make really short work of condition builds?

[ChubbyRain]

A warrior crying about Necros and engineers.  Haha this thread made my day.

[UssjTrunks]

Action Bastard, on 15 August 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

That's what I ran, it didn't matter because as soon as I dropped a stack of 20 bleeds, I would get another stack of 20 in a matter of seconds.

Are you not doing any damage in the mean time? Conditions take a while to kill you. Use that time to land your bursts (assuming you're running a burst build).

Edited by UssjTrunks, 16 August 2012 - 02:42 AM.

[Primum_Agmen]

Condition damage builds, at least those which are crit-based (which seems to be many of them), took a pretty big hit today with the addition of a 5 second ICD on Sigil of Earth. It shouldn't be nearly so easy to stack bleeds as a result.

[kyoshi]

first of all condition stacks DID get nerfed. go look at the necromancer.
instead of 7 seconds its like 4 now.
second, bleeds have to be STACKED in order to drop you. what are you doing to get so many stacks?
third, i played the stress test today, and i got melted by burst rogue/gaurdian all day. so much for my condition bleeds going up, because i couldn't put them up while being CCed and bursted down at the same time as a necromancer.
fourth, I got bled to death plenty of times. i know cause my death stats popped up telling me i got hit 98 times for over 10k damage or something like that

this game is built on conditions/boons. every class has them. if you aren't specced for removal then thats your own fault.

as a person who stacks conditions, you don't "spam" 1 auto attack. maybe you do, but thats not what happens in pvp. you move around, you use different abilities at different times. who just stands there and spams 1 button? lets be real here.

i have no burst. you can kill me way before you die from bleeding

[Epic_Bear_Guy]

You know it just dawned on to me that their are a lot of ways of converting conditions into boons or tossing them in another direction. We need more necro's and mesmers in pvp but it seems like not many people want to roles those two classes (supposedly they're both in bad shape). Most guardians i've come across are damage specced and would rather kill than support their teammates with condition removals or condition conversion so that could have something to do with  the feeling of condition builds being superior in matches. My advice? Role with a team of friends because hotjoin will always lack dedicated teammates. It's just a zerge invested, cluster fest that motivates players into running DD builds.

Edited by Epic_Bear_Guy, 16 August 2012 - 03:14 AM.

[Elemental Gearbolt]

Lol people complaining about necromancers and engineers...those are no the professions who hit me for 2k dmg using auto-attacks...ha and I go around with 2k toughness

[Haku]

Doubt bleeds will be changed much at this point. It's at a good place from what I can see. (cramming in tourney games whenever the servers are up). I play a condition bunker ranger and in there people are wise enough to bring condition removal. It's come to the point that even if I can get 20 stacks on them at once they can easily cleanse it because my class can't apply much for condition cover. I have to go condition damage because A-net thought the ideal Amulet for me would be too OP.

It is interesting though, to see a thread like this when I felt bleeds go from too ridiculous in BWE2 to "I hope they don't have condition removal" today. I'm considering maining warrior because of how little damage the spec could POTENTIALLY do.

[flint11]

Primum_Agmen, on 16 August 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

Condition damage builds, at least those which are crit-based (which seems to be many of them), took a pretty big hit today with the addition of a 5 second ICD on Sigil of Earth. It shouldn't be nearly so easy to stack bleeds as a result.

Do you have a source for this? I know they gave it an ICD of 2s, did they bump it up to 5 in the stress test? The patch notes unfortunately does not cover any sigil changes.

[Eon Lilu]

So far my faith in Arena Net and balancing has dropped alot, they are really not thinking about the changes they implement...

The game is getting mashed due to stupid balancing decisions.

[darkblue]

Honestly, my feeling is that condition is a lot less a threat than before (this was also true on sunday stress test).

If as a warrior running 4 condition removal skills, you can't kill a necro or an engie it's probably because you did not land your skill and did not evade enough nothing to do about condition damage being OP.

The main reasons why bleeding and burning are often on the top of your kill charts are because condition builds use several skills to apply them and because several people are likely to have contributed in applying them.

Sigil of earth nerf and a couple other nerfs (sharpening stone for instance) are proofs that Anet are monitoring the balance between power and condition closely. You should not have too much faith on those kill charts because they are comparing apple to potatoes.

[Primum_Agmen]

flint11, on 16 August 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

Do you have a source for this? I know they gave it an ICD of 2s, did they bump it up to 5 in the stress test? The patch notes unfortunately does not cover any sigil changes.

My only source is having hovered over the tooltip today and saying in Vent, "Hey, looks like they put a 5s ICD on Sigil of Earth and a 2s ICD on Sigil of Blood." I probably should have screen-shotted it, but I assumed enough other people would notice it that it didn't seem important to do so.  

[darkblue]

The tooltip change was about the duration of the bleed not the ICD last I checked ...

[Ljiona]

I usually run with signet of stamina and mend with restorative strength.  It gives me two full condition removals.  Seems to work better than shout builds because most shout builds will also get healing shouts and use solider rune which lowers dps.  The best way to kill a condition build is to burst them down.  The longer they are running around the more conditions they can stack.  

If you can't beat them, join them.  Every class and do pretty much the same builds.

[sagasaint]

Knuckledust13, on 16 August 2012 - 12:24 AM, said:

power is too op, I got a 17k hit to the face and couldn't even remove it

Abaregi, on 16 August 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

What do you remove power crits with?

/endthread

[Phys]

sagasaint, on 16 August 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

power is too op, I got a 17k hit to the face and couldn't even remove it

Abaregi, on 15 August 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:
What do you remove power crits with?

/endthread

you dodge them, or invulnerable, or block, but you cant really block most conditions because a lot of them are based on getting criticals (with or without the sigil) and are often on AA, or other short cool down skills.

As far as removal, to be honest if being able to remove conditions 5 times isnt enough, the application rate is probably OP.  I mean 1 second of burning, is probably more damage than most jobs AA, and is essentially useless to remove.

I honestly think condition damage is fairly OP and will probably get nerfed in the future, but we shall see.

[Grebbou]

It's not like condition dmg is applying by itself. You can still avoid abilities that stuck condition with dodge, invunerable and block. It's harder to figure out when to, because it's almost range.

I understand your point. I was same annoyed by power crit builds with range weapons. Thief that stealth so I can't stuck bleeds, appear and do massive dmg, and Warrior (I don't understand why he was able to kill anyone that fast - last stress test.)

[Heru]

Zinn, on 16 August 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

I didn't have any issues with condition damage taken.  It was easy to keep track of and avoid the major bursts of applications.

Neither did I, but maybe we just got lucky and didn't face the beastly players some of the other people in here were facing.

[Sword Hammer Axe]

I think that condition damage is perfect. The necromancer benefits greatly from it, while it is still relatively easy to avoid getting clobbered by intensive bleeds. But a lesson might be to always always always have a remove condition skill on you.

[silver4xxxxl]

They could make toughness reduce incoming condi dmg. Or maybe even add such a side effect to vitality.

Toughness would make more sense tho.

[sagasaint]

ANet just nerfed the condition stacking capabilities of all classes by a large amount. I think we should put this topic on hold until new numbers appear and we can see how strong they are now.

in my opinion they have nerfed way too much the condition builds, which afaic is BAD news. There is no fun in a game where you just have 2 options, defensive or power spiker. binary is bad.

Edited by sagasaint, 16 August 2012 - 11:28 AM.

[jstar80]

sagasaint, on 16 August 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

ANet just nerfed the condition stacking capabilities of all classes by a large amount. I think we should put this topic on hold until new numbers appear and we can see how strong they are now.

in my opinion they have nerfed way too much the condition builds, which afaic is BAD news. There is no fun in a game where you just have 2 options, defensive or power spiker. binary is bad.

They did indeed nerf it but I still found my condi engineer to be pretty damn good in sPvP.

[sagasaint]

jstar80, on 16 August 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

They did indeed nerf it but I still found my condi engineer to be pretty damn good in sPvP.

and that means, what exactly? you shouldnt find it good? it should be much worse than a CC engi or a nuke engi?
why?

conditions should be damn good but not better than the other options. Thats the point of builds, to play something that fits your playstyle and isnt significantly better or worse than the alternative.


P.S: there are several proffs that have power builds MUCH better than condition builds...I suppose that means we should nerf their power builds.

Edited by sagasaint, 16 August 2012 - 11:46 AM.

[xCharlie]

This is why i <3 arcane thievery.

[jstar80]

sagasaint, on 16 August 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

and that means, what exactly? you shouldnt find it good? it should be much worse than a CC engi or a nuke engi?
why?

conditions should be damn good but not better than the other options. Thats the point of builds, to play something that fits your playstyle and isnt significantly better or worse than the alternative.


P.S: there are several proffs that have power builds MUCH better than condition builds...I suppose that means we should nerf their power builds.

I literally don't understand how what I said can lead to you writing this.

[Geirstadalv]

We are talking about condition damage in sPvP. Hos did this end up in this part of the forum?? Can a mod please move this to the Courtyard were it belongs.

[Ciocco]

This isn't a 1vs1 Game!
A - for example - Warrior will and should not have a fair standing against each and every class or build.
BUT he/she will dominate other classes/builds just fine.

Just my opinion of course...

[Mura]

Geirstadalv, on 15 August 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

Hmm with shouts you have 4 condition removals. That's not bad at all..

I'm new to learning the warrior.  I've tried to find example shout builds, and don't understand how it adds up to 4 condition removals.
Mending - heal yourself and remove 2 conditions
Shake it Off - remove a condition from yourself and nearby allies.
from what I can tell, none of the other shouts remove conditions.  What am I missing?

[flint11]

Mura, on 16 August 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

I'm new to learning the warrior.  I've tried to find example shout builds, and don't understand how it adds up to 4 condition removals.
Mending - heal yourself and remove 2 conditions
Shake it Off - remove a condition from yourself and nearby allies.
from what I can tell, none of the other shouts remove conditions.  What am I missing?

There's a rune that you upgrade your armors with named Rune of the Soldier, the 6 piece bonus is that Shouts remove 1 condition each. Shake it Off will then remove 2 with the other two slots removing 1 each.

Edited by flint11, 16 August 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[Mura]

ah, The rune is the ticket!  Thanks flint11