91 replies to this topic

[Rashy]

Actually, the article only mentions 3 negative things about Guild Wars 2, which can all be tweaked.

1) Object collisions problems with Vistas (personally, I had no trouble with Vistas). They do take some patience and care to complete them.
2) 2 dodges every 10 seconds. Can be traited to be 3-4 in a row for Thieves, not sure about others. A simple change in how much endurance a dodge takes up will fix that.
3) Complaints about different forms of cooldown (Elementalist and Thief as examples). Thief being the only one that has the Initiative mechanic instead of cooldowns. The initiative system can be tweaked a lot further. As shown by the recent boost to initiative regen (0.75/second).

The rest of the article is about taking the negatives of traditional MMOs and improving it, which is exactly what Guild Wars 2 does.

[Shamadamun]

Nedra, on 16 August 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

I want this game to be underground so we're free of this casualization

It won't happen though

Pretty much this.

I absolutely adore the game, and I will be playing it for years. Other people's opinons on the game don't matter much to me. If people on other MMO forums want to walk around smug saying "GW2 failed to beat WoW!" they're free to hop on that bandwagon. As long as we have a healthy population full of people that actually want to play a game of integrity instead of bitching 24/7 to nerf all content and to award us with everything without any effort - then we are revolutionary, and have already beaten the bigger named companies. (IMO)

Quality over quantity. As long as Anet doesn't cater to self-entitled brats and "baddies" then it's a massive success in my books.

[Wift]

TKTindelible, on 16 August 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

No it isn't. Both Rift and Warhammer has comparable content offerings that did the same thing. Guild Wars mildly progresses that.

Again, not revolutionary.

http://dictionary.re...owse/revolution

Guild Wars 2 is a revolutionary MMO because it's the only MMO that has taken steps to be almost completely different from WoW. You can't just judge Guild Wars 2 because of a single feature, but as a whole. If you add up all of Guild Wars 2 features, such as dynamic events, anti-grind, anti-holy trinity, cooperative gameplay, no sub fee's, etc, and compare it to any other MMO, you're not going to find anything like it. That in itself, is a revolution, because no other MMO has gone so far off the traditional MMO formula.

Edited by Wift, 16 August 2012 - 01:57 AM.

[Woutman]

Pipples, on 16 August 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

Revolution is, in itself, a sort of evolution
We're dealing with semantics here and that too gets old

If that's what the word has degrated to, I feel sorry for it.

Revolution used to mean a change that takes a certain entity in an entirely different direction. Opposite of that is evolution, which simply takes it to the next step in the same direction.

If you go by that definition, I honestly don't see how you can call GW2 revolutionary. It still has all the core mechanics of previous MMORPGs, just implemented in a more appealing way.

[BadSantaBoy]

Did OP even read the article? It had nothing negative to say about arena.net or guild wars 2... The game isn't solely changing the industry.. oh no what a shame... A step in the right direction, more than any other game can say, and still gonna be one hell of a game..

[Green]

Nedra, on 16 August 2012 - 12:51 AM, said:

I want this game to be underground so we're free of this casualization

It won't happen though

Part of me agrees with you, but for it to be a successful eSport game (which I want very much) it must have mass appeal madness.

Pipples, on 16 August 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

Downleveling
Cross-server guilds
Cross-server groups
Ability to be in multiple guilds
3-team WvWvW
Cosmetics enabled on release
Confirmed housing in the works
Wide crafting base
Skill changes based on weapons being used (making weapon choice matter)
Puzzles
Multiple viable ways of leveling
Customizable character histories

Amen!

Edited by Green, 16 August 2012 - 02:03 AM.

[Siin]

Wift, on 16 August 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

Guild Wars 2 is a revolutionary MMO because it's the only MMO that has taken steps to be almost completely different from WoW. You can't just judge Guild Wars 2 because of a single feature, but as a whole. If you add up all of Guild Wars 2 features, such as dynamic events, anti-grind, anti-holy trinity, cooperative gameplay, no sub fee's, etc, and compare it to any other MMO, you're not going to find anything like it. That in itself, is a revolution, because no other MMO has gone so far off the traditional MMO formula.

/signed

[Sprinkles169]

Majic, on 16 August 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

Just who is calling Guild Wars 2 a revolution? Is ArenaNet calling it that? I think maybe they've used the word in the past. God knows their videos are upbeat and hypey, but where, exactly, do they call it a "revolution"?

If someone knows, please point it out for me. Maybe I missed it, or it's in the videos and can't be googled. But I do find it interesting that for "all the hype", the word "revolution" seems to have come into the parlance more from reviewers, commentators and critics than from ArenaNet itself.

Am I wrong about this?  

I believe the most they've ever talked about their own game officially in that manner would be in their manifesto video. I mean, that word almost makes me think revolution. They really talk up their game and they've been quoted from it time and again. That's about all I can say. But really, it's a stupid justification saying Anet and their work didn't "live up". Even if they said the word a few times and the finished product doesn't quite match that criteria in some peoples opinions.

[Rashy]

http://www.merriam-w...onary/manifesto Just saying. No mention of revolution whatsoever. They simply used that video to explain their design philosophies and why they chose to do it that way. A very brief summary at that.

Edited by Rashy, 16 August 2012 - 02:08 AM.

[Zero_Soulreaver]

I love GW2 but not going to pretend it's the most amazing thing I have ever played.  I do completely understand why folks get angry about others overhyping games so much just to ditch it a month later.  It's just really annoying trend people have these days "Omg it's so amazing!" a month later "man that game sucked!"

[Rossa Pera]

The difference between the "hype" this mmo has and other mmo's is that the hype isn't game play trailers made by ArenaNet. The hype is the hundreds of hours of footage on youtube made by game bloggers and players where what we see is exactly what we get. Unlike ToR where the game was a secret until they secured all the preorders before allowing players to show others what they just wasted their money on. That "feature" in of itself speaks volumes of ArenaNet and GW2 and is revolutionary in my opinion.

Edited by Rossa Pera, 16 August 2012 - 02:21 AM.

[Yui San]

Pipples, on 16 August 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

Downleveling
Cross-server guilds
Cross-server groups
Ability to be in multiple guilds
3-team WvWvW
Cosmetics enabled on release
Confirmed housing in the works
Wide crafting base
Skill changes based on weapons being used (making weapon choice matter)
Puzzles
Multiple viable ways of leveling
Customizable character histories

That's off the top of my head

Please go elsewhere and complain. Negative threads like this with no basis other than opinion get very old very fast

Ability to be in multiple Guilds - Ultima Online
Housing - Ultima Online (right from the beginning)
Wide Crafting base - Ultima Online (crafting there is huge)
Multiple ways of leveling - more or less already in Ultima Online. Didn't have level anyway, but there were different way to work on chars.

And there probably is more.

[Herr Roy Raven]

That's actually a very good article.   Although ArenaNet does add their own concepts to the game, a lot of it is just a renovation.  Renown Hearts for example feel like typical quests with multiple ways to complete it.   I will say though that I'm pretty sure Guild Wars 2/ArenaNet started talking about personal story before SW:TOR did... they just rushed their game to release it much sooner than GW2.

[Metameta]

TKTindelible, on 16 August 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Hype is a phenomenon that occurs when a large group of people get overly excited about a thing for a set of assumed reasons. Hype is synonymous with excitement in a lot of ways, but also adds on "with specified reasons".

The hype surrounding Guild Wars 2 comes from the fact that it is the sequel to one of the best selling and most critically acclaimed games of recent years, and because of certain claims associated with it. In this case the majority of the hype has built around the idea that Guild Wars 2 is going to redefine and revolutionise an entire genre.

You can be objective when consider whether it lives up to those claims: Does it redefine and revolutionise an entire genre? No, it doesn't.

You simply can't say that for a game that has not been released yet.

A revolution is not new ideas, but simply the acceptance of an idea. It's simply a changing of the standard.

Lets look back at history.

EQ1 was the pioneer.

WoW was not much different from the basic premise of EQ1, but it did revolutionize the genre. It made raiding a bit easier, and made things more accessible. As a result it sold millions of copies and have millions of players.

As a result other games start to take from WoW, they are not taking from EQ1. EQ1 had some hardcore features now...they are taking from WoW

Remember at a time SWG was releasing as well. It had a lot more innovative features, had it succeeded you would have seen a lot more sandpark MMOs nowadays.

Now back to now.

GW2 is taking features that have been done before.

Public questing
WvWvW
sPvP
Cosmetic/Horizontal progression

These are things that have been done in MMOs before, but usually not at the same time. I guarantee you if GW2 becomes a massive success, has millions of players...MMOs will copy.

Hell just today Rift has decided that they are going to "Normalize" gear in PVP to make PVP more equal. Gee, I wonder where that came from?

IF GW2 is massively successful you are going to see a lot of the ideas that weren't popular before in MMOs become the standard of a MMO. Like how WoW has made vertical gear progression a standard, if GW2 takes the top spot or seriously challenges WoW then cosmetic gear grind will become a standard in MMOs...or maybe DEs...or something else.

[Yllibas]

Guild Wars 2 is not a revolution in MMORPGs, it's an evolution.

Dynamic events are basically the same quests we've all played before but the difference is that you don't have to manually accept or decline them but they do great in stringing events together seamlessly. It's a nice way to hide the clunkiness of traditional questing.

The holy trinity isn't really gone with damage, control and support as players can spec their characters to recreate the holy trinity play style if they wanted to. Damage, control and support in conjunction with the way the professions are setup makes it so a lot of players can play however they like but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better or worse, it's just different.

The story branching isn't anything new since this has happened before in other MMORPGs, plus SW:TOR does it a lot better with their conversation system.

A lot of things are simplified in GW2, equipment upgrades, color dyes, mailing, auction house, crafting etc. And a lot of things have been reworked to be easier, streamlined. That's what I love about GW2. I don't give a crap about hardcore gear grinding, or rare monsters that pop every two Earth days or taking two months to reach the level cap. Who enjoys that type of stuff? Really? I just want to have fun. I don't really care if GW2 isn't completely new in every way but as long as it works well, and it has thus far, I'm going to keep playing.

[Jexx]

Metameta, on 16 August 2012 - 02:23 AM, said:

-snip-

I actually hope that this doesn't happen. What I mean is, I hope that GW2 won't become the new WoW for what people base MMO standards off of.

Instead, I hope that it expands the genre so that every game isn't pretty much a clone of each other, and that the games can try new things. Like the difference between Half-Life and Battlefield.

[Genesis]

To paraphrase the esteemed zombie-killer Ash Williams: "Revolution. Renovation. I'm the game with the fun."

[Verveinh]

*Finally, you can make everyone happy, but you can’t make everyone happy all the time. It is risky to try to make decisions that appeal to all players equally. Don’t fall into the trap of making decisions based on what causes the least amount of pain, because this can lead to a game that is just kind of “okay” and doesn’t really excite anybody. When you have a large, active, and passionate player base, every decision you make, every change to the game, no matter how convinced you are that it makes the game strictly better, will piss someone off, and they’ll post about it, blog about it, rant to the press about it, loudly and publicly predict that this is the “beginning of the end” of your game, and send hate mail to your community and support teams. MMO developers have to have thick skins, but always remember that if one of your players is angry with you, it is because he really cares about the game, and that’s much healthier for you than apathy. Go with your instincts and make the right decision for your game.*

*Pay close attention to complexity creep. Don’t assume that most of your players are reading your website and consuming information about your game. Most of your players will never read your website, never visit fansites, and never participate in forum discussions. We are often immersed in the community forums and rants and raves posted to game fansites, and it is easy to lose perspective about the knowledge level of most of our players. Players who participate in fansites and send six-page emails to your community team are experts at your game – they probably know more about it than you do – so it’s important to realize that they do not represent the average player. The vast majority of your players are not digging into every detail of every spell or creating lists of animations so that they can react when they see the basilisk twitch its nose. They want to play, not study, so take care to create a game that allows them to do so. *

*I’ll end by paraphrasing the famous Japanese game designer, Masaya Matsuura: Go forth, and do weird and difficult things! Thank you*

Article written in 2007 by Jeff Strain (he left Anet few years ago)

http://eu.guildwars....cle/jeffgc2007/

GW² rules....

[ShyIsShy]

Oh hey another one of these threads.

[el hefe]

Zero_Soulreaver, on 16 August 2012 - 02:12 AM, said:

I love GW2 but not going to pretend it's the most amazing thing I have ever played.  I do completely understand why folks get angry about others overhyping games so much just to ditch it a month later.  It's just really annoying trend people have these days "Omg it's so amazing!" a month later "man that game sucked!"

i was in a hot-join today and a guy was going on about how guild wars 2 sucks.  i asked "then why are you playing?"  he responded,  "because everyone else is."  gaming has become very, very trendy.

[Umie]

everything about GW2 is a revolution. sorry, try harder.

[relshdan]

was a fairly realistic and overall very positive article.

[Metameta]

Jexx, on 16 August 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:

I actually hope that this doesn't happen. What I mean is, I hope that GW2 won't become the new WoW for what people base MMO standards off of.

Instead, I hope that it expands the genre so that every game isn't pretty much a clone of each other, and that the games can try new things. Like the difference between Half-Life and Battlefield.

I just think that's what people mean by revolution. It's usually a the standard changing, not NEW ideas but more people accepting an idea whether it be new or even something old. Like if a communist party popped up in America and for some reason everyone decided "Okay, lets go with this...this works!" it would be called a revolution. Not a new idea but breathing life into a idea that has already been tried.

GW2 is taking ideas...some ideas that weren't as successful as before like public questing, it's changing it up and trying it again.

Rifts are just big things that randomly spawn monsters. They are there as a side activity and not the meat of the game. Meanwhile GW2 is making it the meat of their PVE experience. Someone correct me but this is something that has never been done before.

If people are going to say what SWTOR did with voice overs and cut-scene as new then they have to consider what GW2 is doing with DEs as new any ways. SWTOR wasn't the first MMO with voice overs, DCUO had voiced quests as well! But not to the extent that SWTOR has.

Edited by Metameta, 16 August 2012 - 02:45 AM.

[Majic]

Tough Love

el hefe, on 16 August 2012 - 02:35 AM, said:

i was in a hot-join today and a guy was going on about how guild wars 2 sucks.  i asked "then why are you playing?"  he responded,  "because everyone else is."  gaming has become very, very trendy.

You can see the same people sitting at McDonald's, complaining about how badly the food sucks while greedily stuffing a Big Mac down their throats.

And you know they'll be back tomorrow like clockwork.

[Dace]

So are we done arguing on the stupid semantics of this yet? I only ask because we should really decide on whether this color is powder, sky, baby, or robin's egg blue.

[Majic]

Singing The Blues

Dace, on 16 August 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

So are we done arguing on the stupid semantics of this yet? I only ask because we should really decide on whether this color is powder, sky, baby, or robin's egg blue.

Well it's not a very revolutionary color. I can definitely say that.  

[sanedude]

This game is far different from other mmos I've played. It also far better than the terrible ones that have been released in the past 7ish years. I find this game to be very fun and interesting and I plan to play for years. It's a game and only costs 60$

[TKTindelible]

Metameta, on 16 August 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

I just think that's what people mean by revolution. It's usually a the standard changing, not NEW ideas but more people accepting an idea whether it be new or even something old. Like if a communist party popped up in America and for some reason everyone decided "Okay, lets go with this...this works!" it would be called a revolution. Not a new idea but breathing life into a idea that has already been tried.

GW2 is taking ideas...some ideas that weren't as successful as before like public questing, it's changing it up and trying it again.

Rifts are just big things that randomly spawn monsters. They are there as a side activity and not the meat of the game. Meanwhile GW2 is making it the meat of their PVE experience. Someone correct me but this is something that has never been done before.

If people are going to say what SWTOR did with voice overs and cut-scene as new then they have to consider what GW2 is doing with DEs as new any ways. SWTOR wasn't the first MMO with voice overs, DCUO had voiced quests as well! But not to the extent that SWTOR has.

Arguably all you're saying right now is that MOST gamers flagrantly abuse the English language ;P

The application of the word revolution in political science has a very specific and long standing meaning. Even then, the specific meaning is rooted in the more general meaning. In political science, a revolution is a replacement >in totality< of the established ruling authority. The important part is the "in totality" bit, because any proper use of the word revolution carries that sentiment. We'll gloss over the "communism was tried and didn't work" comment you made about US society ;P

There aren't any genuine examples of actual revolution in modern gaming. As has been pointed out, a better word would be evolution (which isn't anything like revolution).

[Genesis]

Dace, on 16 August 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

So are we done arguing on the stupid semantics of this yet? I only ask because we should really decide on whether this color is powder, sky, baby, or robin's egg blue.

Carolina blue.

[Eon Lilu]

Closer we get to launch the more wow fan boi's coming out the wood works on the forums, the OP is twisting the way the articale is written, if you look at the writers comments its actually a positive review of the game without the fanboism.

The op is just playing on the words to troll.