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#1 Lachanche

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:57 PM

I really miss my night elf hunter in world of warcraft, the tricks where i could shadowmeld (stealth) and my cat pet would follow me ready to ambush the first horde fool passing by...

anyway, out of nostalgic feelings, i thought to a build to maximize my pet damage output

http://gw2skills.net...IbRuikFtEZIyGEA

this build aims to maximize my feline pet dmg output as well as his speed and survivability:
- my pet moves 30% faster (more with sick em and swiftness)
- he deals 30% more crit damage
- each time he crits he heals himself for 1500 hp (confirmed)
- he has 2200 precision (thats 85% crit chanches with fury)
- he apply bleeding each time he crits
- my boons are shared with my pet

now about that last point it allows me to do a lot of intresting combos:
- each time i buff myself with a boon that same boon gets copied to my pet
- if i buff both me and my pet the boon on the pet gets doubled

this combo with the following things:
- call of the wild, swiftness and fury up for 30 seconds each 35 seconds + 2 stacks of might
- rampage as one, double stability, fury and swiftness duration, twice as many stacks of might
- mighty roar, 6 stacks of might instead of 3
- sigil of superior battle, 3 stacks of might

I also thought about using shortbow instead of sword/dagger but sword skill #1 is just too good with quickness and with crippling talon i can keep cripple up 1/3 of the time anyway.

crippling talon + winter' s bite + sigil of superior hydromancy should keep my pet on my target most of the time, also taking into account + 63% moving speed under swiftness.

signet of renewal is useful to deal with condition now that i use heal as one over healing spring :D

Edited by Lachanche, 21 August 2012 - 12:30 AM.


#2 Mr_Finesse

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 04:05 PM

I like this a lot.  I like the fact that you have a really solid direction and know that you are fully all about buffing your feline pets. And even better, you're not taking a bear like everyone else!

I also really dig the S/D weapon set.  Very good for the style you're shooting for.

This is more of a question rather than a suggestion, but why are you taking Healing Spring over Heal as One? I may have missed somewhere that it is more of a viable healing skill?

#3 Lachanche

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 05:27 PM

Too many condition builds around to take heal as one >_>

and Healing Spring can also combo with Fortifying Bond to give my pet regeneration each time i shot a combo finisher projectile trough it :cool:

Edited by Lachanche, 17 August 2012 - 05:32 PM.


#4 Tsu

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:14 PM

Yes, the crits on my lynx healed him for 1487. But I've seen it heal for 1550 as well, but I think that was with another pet. Either way, I'm not sure how it's calculated, but it's around 1500. Here is the link to the post I made about it: http://www.guildwars...s/#entry1740113

I like your build, but I don't understand your choice for:
- "Concentration Training", I'm sure there is a better one you could pick. Your pet does not apply boons, does it?
- "Enlargement" is a useless trait that needs changing I think, but you like it? I could be wrong.
- "Compassion Training" is completely useless in your build. Look at the link I provided above for the tests I ran for it. Your pet does not have heal skills.

#5 Lachanche

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:37 PM

about Concentration Training and Enlargement i can only say that i needed to take fortifying bond so i had to take 2 filler traits, there' s nothing really useful in nature magic other than Fortifying Bond <_<.

edit: now that i think about it Concentration Training has some use with Mighty Roar, i think i could also take Nature' s Bounty over Enlargement to benefit more from Healing Spring.

about Compassion Training i thought it influenced Carnivorous Appetite XD what can i put here ?

#6 SlappedYak

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:43 PM

DPS pets ftw :D I like this build too, it's more specific than a "general beastmaster" (which is what I've been playing around with)

Things I would do differently (but it's a matter of preference of course ^.^)

>swap "sick em" for signet of renewal (I dislike the ranger shouts and find them to be a bit situational :/ whereas signet of renewal is a good passive cond removal and good for those emergency break stun momments (I gues this would be more of an issue in pvp, in pve I would take a trap or another signet, maybe sig of stone)

>maaaybe consider heal as one over healing spring...(if you took sig of renewal that might make that choice easier) though I guess as you two will both be in melee, it could be pretty useful.

> again with compassion training, mighty roar is a boon not a heal - but I can't see what I'd replace it with... I guess you want to sink points into BM for the empathy hmmm...beast mastery traits aren't the best :/ but probably speed training? or I quite like "mighty swap" with works well with the minor traits.

I did a little rework of the trait allocations, the pet's aren't as strong but you as a player deal more dmg (and it syns well with the signets in your build....) BUT that's just me, and it's kind of going against your original purpose for the build ;)..hmm...  http://gw2skills.net...IbRuikFtEZIyGEA

But yeh, I really like your build :) and I don't like bear pets, hehe

View PostLachanche, on 17 August 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

about Concentration Training and Enlargement i can only say that i needed to take fortifying bond so i had to take 2 filler traits, there' s nothing really useful in nature magic other than Fortifying Bond

If you only want fort bond, take five points out (so you're on 15 NM rather than 20) and put those 5 into another traitline, possibly even BM for the extra empathy? (and nature's wrath isn't a baaad trait..) or wild survival for endurance regen minor? Just a thought xD

Edited by SlappedYak, 17 August 2012 - 06:44 PM.


#7 Dragosani7

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:51 PM

This is a great build, I made one a while ago that is very similar http://gw2skills.net...NOvk3sEZIyGk5GA but I think I like yours better since mine is more about supporting my pet while yours can do the same and put out respectable dps yourself while fighting along side it.

But unless it was changed in the aug 15th stress test Compassion training only effects heals that originate from the pet so you'd get a lot more bang for your buck with Mighty Swap so that jungle stalker will be getting 9 stacks of might when he uses mighty roar instead of 6.

#8 Lachanche

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:56 PM

thanks for the advice SlappedYak :)
I changed my build to be like this http://gw2skills.net...IbRuikFtEZIyGEA

i want to keep sick em because i read here http://www.guildwars...ild-vs-sick-em/ that it is quite strong so i took out signet of the hunt for signet of renewal

i think -10% move speed for passive condition removal + emergency stun break is a good deal :P

-5 in nature magic and +5 in wilderness survival for +50% endurance regeneration ftw XD

Edited by Lachanche, 17 August 2012 - 06:59 PM.


#9 vallo

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 06:59 PM

A little off topic but I tried something similar 2 stress tests ago.
My goal was to apply conditions with my pet. I now think its not very viable because the bleeds the pet applies tick for very low damage, (Around 50ish, if I remember correct) even if traited.

I wonder how the shout Sick Em affects the dmg numbers in any pet focused build. I guess condi dmg from the pet is not affected by this skill. But overall your build looks interesting.

#10 Tsu

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 07:43 PM

View PostLachanche, on 17 August 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

about Concentration Training and Enlargement i can only say that i needed to take fortifying bond so i had to take 2 filler traits, there' s nothing really useful in nature magic other than Fortifying Bond <_<.

edit: now that i think about it Concentration Training has some use with Mighty Roar, i think i could also take Nature' s Bounty over Enlargement to benefit more from Healing Spring.

about Compassion Training i thought it influenced Carnivorous Appetite XD what can i put here ?
If you mainly use a Lynx, you'd be better off changing Concentration Training to something else, like Nature's Bounty. If you mainly use the Jungle Stalker, it's fine.

I would rather go for Strength of Spirit than Enlargement, because Strength of Spirit provides its benefit constantly in every situation (always extra power), instead of only buff the pet for a few seconds when you're at 25% health. (I could see Enlargement used together with a Bark Skin build though). Nature's protection might be a good pick too. I guess it's personal preference.

As for Compassion Training, yes it's a bit disappointing. It's actually a really badly worded trait. It only seems to work for heal skills which your pet has, which could be good for bears and moas. But in your build I would change it into Speed Training. Speed Training gives a nice passive boost to your pet, which increases the pet's DPS by making him attack more often, which also allows him to crit more, which also allows him to heal more and stack more bleeds.
Other choices would be Commanding Voice (for jungle stalker) and Mighty Swap (if you swap pets often), but those two are more situational.

#11 SlappedYak

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 07:55 PM

View PostLachanche, on 17 August 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

thanks for the advice SlappedYak :)
I changed my build to be like this http://gw2skills.net...IbRuikFtEZIyGEA

i want to keep sick em because i read here http://www.guildwars...ild-vs-sick-em/ that it is quite strong so i took out signet of the hunt for signet of renewal

i think -10% move speed for passive condition removal + emergency stun break is a good deal

-5 in nature magic and +5 in wilderness survival for +50% endurance regeneration ftw XD

hehe also Jaguar ftw and 50& endurance regen is such a good little minor trait, inorite?! maybe I'm being too quick to dismiss stick em, I will give it a try ;) oh my god, crafting builds always makes me RIDONK excited :EEE only 5/7 daaaays people!!

Edited by SlappedYak, 17 August 2012 - 07:56 PM.


#12 Apocalyptic

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:20 PM

View PostLachanche, on 17 August 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

:
- my pet moves 40% faster
- he deals 30% more crit damage
- each time he crits he heals himself for 1500 hp (needs testing, found about this in an older thread)
- he has 2200 precision ( thats 80% crit chanches)
- he apply bleeding each time he crits

If pet crit is calculated the same as the players, then it is only 65% crit chance (without fury).

Additionally, have you tested that a pet doesn't have a runspeed cap?

Edited by Apocalyptic, 17 August 2012 - 08:22 PM.


#13 Lachanche

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:44 PM

Thanks everyone for your help i have a feeling this build will turn out pretty strong :lol:
I updated the first post with the recent changes.

@Tsu in the end i took Natural Vigor over Enlargement and Mighty Swap over Compassion Training, i also switched the lynx for a jaguar because without signet of the hunt to boost rending pounce i figured a stealth would be more useful.
I like Mighty Swap because if my jungle stalker is having an hard time and i need to retreat him my jaguard comes into play with 3 stacks of might and it is faster to buff it with might again if he starts from 3 stacks :cool:

@Apocalypt yes actually i meant under fury and i' m glad to know that the real crit % was even higher than i (miss) calculated lol
I updated the original post with the correct info

#14 Kharpalo

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:51 PM

The bleed on crit not really worth it. Generally speaking for PvP the pet builds don't feel that tempting.

Few things that i would change. For PvP BM build i would do 0/20/0/25/25. Take hawk or eagle as the pet and take speed training and commanding voice from the BM trait line. Pet attack speed is only ~every 2 seconds so 5 second bleed on basic attack with minimal condition damage tends to be weak. Take something like river drake on other pet slot so you can unload with it's special at the start of the fight before you swap to eagle or hawk and spam their special from there on.

I would probably swap runes to some power one, maybe pack or strength, take clerics amulet and jewel and swap heal to troll unguent.

Edit: This would be mine take for PvP BM ranger (I take this was about PvP?). For PvE build would be quite a bit different.

http://gw2skills.net...Ouck5s2YIyWk5GA

Edited by Kharpalo, 17 August 2012 - 09:06 PM.


#15 Kharpalo

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:57 PM

View PostTsu, on 17 August 2012 - 07:43 PM, said:

If you mainly use a Lynx, you'd be better off changing Concentration Training to something else, like Nature's Bounty. If you mainly use the Jungle Stalker, it's fine.

I would rather go for Strength of Spirit than Enlargement, because Strength of Spirit provides its benefit constantly in every situation (always extra power), instead of only buff the pet for a few seconds when you're at 25% health. (I could see Enlargement used together with a Bark Skin build though). Nature's protection might be a good pick too. I guess it's personal preference.

As for Compassion Training, yes it's a bit disappointing. It's actually a really badly worded trait. It only seems to work for heal skills which your pet has, which could be good for bears and moas. But in your build I would change it into Speed Training. Speed Training gives a nice passive boost to your pet, which increases the pet's DPS by making him attack more often, which also allows him to crit more, which also allows him to heal more and stack more bleeds.
Other choices would be Commanding Voice (for jungle stalker) and Mighty Swap (if you swap pets often), but those two are more situational.

I don't think the speed training increases the attack rate, but it just increases the ratio of which pet uses special abilities. Of course some pets do have multi hit attacks, but that doesn't affect the bleed trait.

#16 Lachanche

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:11 PM

I like the bleed trait because with quickening zephyr it adds up very fast, extra damage always help imo.
I need the jungle stalker for the shared boons combo, same for runes of lyssa that buff my pets with 2 stacks of every boon when i use rampage as one.
i don' t like troll unguent because it gets interrupted by quickening zephyr, i guess it' s a matter of timing but so far i liked the on use heals more.
How good is the dmg on hawk f2 skill ? looking at the numbers on gw2luna it didn' t seem as strong as many people say it is.
Would you raccomand me to switch out the jaguar for an hawk ?
Also why would you use cleric jewelry over soldier ?

#17 Kharpalo

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 09:40 PM

I think that's the philosophy of the build. You focus on staying alive while pet mops the floor with the enemy. Over time healing beats vitality and you even get overall higher total stat budget due nature's wrath.

The hawk thing seems to swing twice so the damage double what it says it is. With traits it's ~4 second recharge. Properly timed you can get 3 of those out with sick' em.

Edited by Kharpalo, 17 August 2012 - 09:43 PM.


#18 Rp40

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 11:19 PM

I wanted to say to the OP I run a VERY similar build.

I went 0/30/0/0/20 and picked up the same traits in the skrimish and BM line.

Where I find it difficult is placing the last 20.

You decided to look into the 4rth line while I invested in the 3rd.

My version.

http://gw2skills.net...VOqkUtCZUyGk5GA
(FYI only reason mine has shout mastery is because I am counting on it reducing ROA cooldown on release. I view ROA as a pet skill so it should be made a shout)

To be honest.

I love both versions so much its tough for me to choose.
But do note quickness is not a boon and not affected by boon duration.



I love your build because I think your boons provide more synergy with you and your pet.

But I also love my build because I was able to get a little more dps out of my pet and myself.
I also was able to manipulate how damage was done, I am direct damage focused and pet is more or less both.

Edited by Rp40, 17 August 2012 - 11:23 PM.


#19 Xaine

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 11:29 PM

I really wanted to use a build like this, just because it all works out and fits.

I used it a fair bit recently.

However, the pet pathing/AI is just *ing awful. Sometimes it will melee properly, other times it will run up to something, try and do the melee animation.. and the target has moved away from it again, so it just runs around in circles after it.

Sometimes it runs away from the target at a right angle, just to come back at it again.

When you're next in the game, send your pet to attack the Golem in the heart of the mists training area, that runs around in a circle between some pilars.

Sometimes you pet won't get an attack fir about 5-8 seconds.

They need to make pets be able to attack while moving, so their DPS is actually consistent. But if they did that, they'd need to nerf their damage a bit.

Right now, your pet.. the thing you spent 30 points in a trait line to empower, can be running backwards and forwards, humping a wall, or just not attacking while you get shit on.

For me, its way too unreliable.

If i want to put 30 points into my 'AI' pet, i actually want it to be reasonably 'I'.

Edited by Xaine, 17 August 2012 - 11:30 PM.


#20 Apocalyptic

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 11:42 PM

View PostXaine, on 17 August 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

snip

This sums up exactly why I'll be waiting to make a ranger till a few months after release.

Edited by Apocalyptic, 17 August 2012 - 11:43 PM.


#21 spoodigity

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 12:14 AM

Yeah, I really want to have a strong pet build in PVP as well, but until they fix pet attacking mechanics I don't think its worth investing so many traits into beefing up your pet. Moving targets and pet AI do not mix right now. I'm hoping Anet will make fixing it a priority.



#22 Tevesh

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 01:55 AM

Actually I tested several pet-centric builds during the latest stress test and spiders tend to outdamage melee pets, felines included, because they have much less issues with attacking moving targets. Their stats are nothing special though.
They also pack some nice CC.

Edited by Tevesh, 18 August 2012 - 01:56 AM.


#23 Tsu

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 03:36 AM

View PostTevesh, on 18 August 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

Actually I tested several pet-centric builds during the latest stress test and spiders tend to outdamage melee pets, felines included, because they have much less issues with attacking moving targets. Their stats are nothing special though.
They also pack some nice CC.
That sounds good. If nothing changes before launch, we might have to do this for PVP. Either that or a build focussed on immobilize/cripple/chilled conditions maybe.

#24 Siveon

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:08 AM

View PostLachanche, on 17 August 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

I also thought about using shortbow instead of sword/dagger but sword skill #1 is just too good with quickness and with crippling talon i can keep cripple up 1/3 of the time anyway.
Don't forget that the 3rd skill of the sword chain "pounce" adds might to your pet...

#25 Melon is omg

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:15 AM

Keep us all updated on how this works if they'res a stress test. This build looks fun.

#26 Lachanche

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:43 AM

mmh if the pet ai turns out to be a problem i' ll try a ranged version of this build with a lashtail devourer

#27 razor39999

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 01:56 PM

Tbh with the way pets AI is not very "I", I'd go the other way around, and use pets as a sponge for damage/conditions, to keep yourself clean and pounding away. Something like this - http://gw2skills.net...Wutkbt YIyWk5GA

The canine pets have the best combination of toughness and vitality with decent cc, so they're probably the best to use, but devourers, spiders, drakes are also options. Even bears, although they lack in everything except health, particularly in cc.

#28 Freddy_Fakename

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 02:43 PM

Are lynx's and snow leopards feline?

#29 Lachanche

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 02:53 PM

Yes they are :cool:

Edited by Lachanche, 19 August 2012 - 02:53 PM.


#30 Apocalyptic

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 03:13 PM

View PostFreddy_Fakename, on 19 August 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

Are lynx's and snow leopards feline?

Correct.  Here's a list for you:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pet




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