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Power Rifle / Flame Thrower Builds?

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#1 1259Potatoes

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 07:13 PM

I am interested in leveling with, as well as PvPing (tPvP to be specific) with a Rifle and Flamethrower combo. Focusing on power, with conditions as "extra damage". I didn't have a great experience with the Flamethrower in the BWEs, haven't played the engi since the Flamethrower was "fixed" but I really like the whole idea of it.

Has anyone seen builds like this? To be completely honest I am absolutely horrible with creating my own builds, I still don't have a complete grasp on each trait line. As far as which trait line is more for pistols, rifles, bombs, condition dmg, direct dmg etc etc... I just haven't sat down and studied the class as closely as some of the engineer community here has.

Asking someone to throw a build together I think is a bit unreasonable. I think it takes some time to get the traits situated correctly so there is a good synergy among traits and skills; but maybe someone can shed some light on the viability of this sort of thing; has anyone tried it in tPvP?

Also maybe a bit of a education about the trait lines? Where I should be allocating more points and such.

I'd love to pick up some extra knowledge before release!

Side note : I searched for Rifle Flamethrower power builds, and couldn't find much. If I missed something flame away

#2 Ponzio

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 07:54 PM

I guess you will end up using the flamethrower for utility in such a build, only if their are 2 enemys at once and dont focus on you the flammethrower skill 1 is worth it in tPvP. You can spec into juggernaut to make garantued stomps.

Edited by Ponzio, 18 August 2012 - 07:54 PM.


#3 1259Potatoes

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:17 PM

Yea i tried out juggernaut a bit, the movement reduction though is something to get used to, makes hitting stuff hard. But yea guaranteed stomps are always nice!

#4 Ponzio

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:21 PM

View Post1259Potatoes, on 18 August 2012 - 08:17 PM, said:

Yea i tried out juggernaut a bit, the movement reduction though is something to get used to, makes hitting stuff hard. But yea guaranteed stomps are always nice!

Last stress test wasn't enough time to get used to it but I bet that juggernaut can be very powerfull if you are fast enough to switch to the flamethrower every time you see some hard cc incoming.

#5 1259Potatoes

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:34 PM

Very true the only downside to me, is that Juggernaut is easy to spot from an enemies perspective (clearly if you're moving slow with FT out). I think It could be a problem because they will just save those CDs for the second you switch back to rifle or another kit. More so a problem in tPvP.

People will get smart, but still a quick FT switch for a stomp makes it valuable enough for me to take the trait every time (+ toughness too!)

#6 Smapty

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:48 PM

Here's the build I'm leaning towards at the moment...

http://gw2skills.net...slYL7WutkbNK4UA



#7 Vuh

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:14 PM

View PostPonzio, on 18 August 2012 - 08:21 PM, said:

Last stress test wasn't enough time to get used to it but I bet that juggernaut can be very powerfull if you are fast enough to switch to the flamethrower every time you see some hard cc incoming.
You can also switch in the beginning of a CC to get out of it, yes it breaks stuns :P. Can even swap to it mid stomp!

#8 1259Potatoes

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:18 PM

View PostSmapty, on 18 August 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Here's the build I'm leaning towards at the moment...

http://gw2skills.net...slYL7WutkbNK4UA

That looks pretty good to me. A lot of power in that build and a lot of toughness too, seems like a tanky point defender (?). How are you using the Elixir gun though? Is it just meant to be a little bit of control with the cripple and swiftness, as well as the 5stack of vulnerability?

I have barely dabbled with the Elixir gun so if you can explain the skills a little bit I would appreciate it. For example how good is Acid Bomb's dmg? Are you just jumping into this kit for a quick cripple and vulnerability stacks? Do you think the toolbet skill for the Elixir gun is useful? I feel like regeneration isn't that great on it's own.

I like the sound of the Super Elixir though, being able to give a heal AND regeneration to yourself and teammates can be clutch.

View PostVuh, on 18 August 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

You can also switch in the beginning of a CC to get out of it, yes it breaks stuns :P. Can even swap to it mid stomp!

Does it really break stuns? I never even realized... I was using Elixir R with FT juggernaut the whole time.... derp

Edited by 1259Potatoes, 18 August 2012 - 09:17 PM.


#9 Ponzio

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:23 PM

View PostSmapty, on 18 August 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

Here's the build I'm leaning towards at the moment...

http://gw2skills.net...slYL7WutkbNK4UA

Alot of people say those 5% converting skills only convert the amount you have in the traitline so it might be useless

I had almost the same build

http://gw2skills.net...UjoGbNuak1MI4QA

I use the toolkit for extra burst and control and used sigils and runes to get at least 25% critchance.
I usually choose the elixir that is the best for the situation, so I switch between different ones when im out of combat.

Edited by Ponzio, 18 August 2012 - 09:25 PM.


#10 1259Potatoes

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:36 PM

View PostPonzio, on 18 August 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

Alot of people say those 5% converting skills only convert the amount you have in the traitline so it might be useless

I had almost the same build

http://gw2skills.net...UjoGbNuak1MI4QA

I use the toolkit for extra burst and control and used sigils and runes to get at least 25% critchance.
I usually choose the elixir that is the best for the situation, so I switch between different ones when im out of combat.

Wow that would be such sh*t if it was only 5% of what was in the trait line... Need a source for that one O_O

#11 Neuropain

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:52 PM

http://gw2skills.net...HLOOck4MK4UwsAA

Speedy Juggernaut build, not sure about the runes, kinda need the crit to keep swiftness running.

#12 Rozbuska

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:54 PM

I made this build for SPvP. No Weakneses I hope:-)
http://gw2skills.net...4lwLbNuuk1MA5AC

Edited by Rozbuska, 18 August 2012 - 10:09 PM.


#13 Vuh

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:12 PM

View Post1259Potatoes, on 18 August 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

Does it really break stuns? I never even realized... I was using Elixir R with FT juggernaut the whole time.... derp

Indeed it does, since you can swap kits while CCd and juggernaught applies stability which remove those nasty things! The trait is almost borderline op imo :P

#14 Azures

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:17 PM

View PostVuh, on 18 August 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

Indeed it does, since you can swap kits while CCd and juggernaught applies stability which remove those nasty things! The trait is almost borderline op imo :P

Wow, might have to play around with my burn build even more. Like it wasn't hard enough picking 3 traits in Firearms.

#15 Aitchkay

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:22 PM

View PostVuh, on 18 August 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

Indeed it does, since you can swap kits while CCd and juggernaught applies stability which remove those nasty things! The trait is almost borderline op imo :P

That doesn't seem right, especially since there is no cd on kit swapping (in or out).  Compare this to Foot in the Grave, which was nerfed to only grant 3 seconds of stability (even though Death Shroud has a 10 second cooldown).  I'm assuming this will be nerfed to either not allow you to switch to kits while incapacitated, or grant only a short duration Stability (3 seconds) with a cooldown (10 seconds).

#16 1259Potatoes

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 11:35 PM

View PostAitchkay, on 18 August 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

That doesn't seem right, especially since there is no cd on kit swapping (in or out).  Compare this to Foot in the Grave, which was nerfed to only grant 3 seconds of stability (even though Death Shroud has a 10 second cooldown).  I'm assuming this will be nerfed to either not allow you to switch to kits while incapacitated, or grant only a short duration Stability (3 seconds) with a cooldown (10 seconds).

I hope they don't add a timer to the FT stability, that would really be a huge nerf. If any nerf is coming to Juggernaut I hope it just doesn't break stuns on kit swap.

*crosses fingers*

#17 Esoterikk

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 11:44 PM

Damn and here I was hoping I would be able to use a grenade kit, but it looks like elixir flamethrower build might be the way to go for rifles.

#18 Graywolf4409

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 11:49 PM

Sounds fun, but is that a firearm trait? If so shame, cos i was enjoying pistols.

Will give this a try whenever i get to grandmaster traits, sounds cool if it sticks, answer to all stability problems in one kit.

#19 1259Potatoes

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 11:59 PM

View PostRozbuska, on 18 August 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

I made this build for SPvP. No Weakneses I hope:-)
http://gw2skills.net...4lwLbNuuk1MA5AC

I actually really like this, the 10 in Tools is nice because I will definitely be swapping in and out of kits often. At first glance I didn't like the runes, but an extra 30% boon duration is actually pretty nice. Since you have toss Elixir B, toss Elixir H, and then both Elixir's on their own (And Elixir F from Egun?).

Small criticism is I am not so sure that the Runes of the Fighter really fit well, maybe there are better 2 set runes that can go there? Or 2 more of one of the other rune choices?

Condition removal on thrown Elixirs also is great. I have little experience with Elixir X though... Do you really find it more useful than Supply Crate?

#20 Esoterikk

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 12:07 AM

http://gw2skills.net...2yslYL7WutkbNYA

This is what I am looking at, perma swiftness, aoe condition removal on 2 skills, juggernaut and decent range as well as a lot of toughness/vitality.

Grenade kit is for AOE chill and AOE poison/bleed as well as the toolbelt skill absolutely wrecks with power.

I am curious though if the power tree would be better served than spending all those points for juggernaut.

http://gw2skills.net...2yslYL7WutkbNYA

I honestly prefer this build.

Edited by Esoterikk, 19 August 2012 - 12:10 AM.


#21 Ponzio

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 12:19 AM

View PostGraywolf4409, on 18 August 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

Sounds fun, but is that a firearm trait? If so shame, cos i was enjoying pistols.

Will give this a try whenever i get to grandmaster traits, sounds cool if it sticks, answer to all stability problems in one kit.

well firearms gives you all the pisol upgrades + more condition damage anyway so why not use it with pistol?

View PostRozbuska, on 18 August 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

I made this build for SPvP. No Weakneses I hope:-)
http://gw2skills.net...4lwLbNuuk1MA5AC

Healing power is the worst stat in game, you wont see any real difference with the healing on your runes. I would switch it out with precision to get some more accuracy. What about superior runes of divinity? You lose 40 healing power which is nothing and get +60 to all stats and 26% more crit damage. It gives you 26% crit if you combine it with the a rune of superior accuracy. Which is imo way better than having 18% crit.

I personaly would exchange kit refinement with speedy kits or static discharge.

Edited by Ponzio, 19 August 2012 - 12:28 AM.


#22 Esoterikk

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 12:28 AM

View PostPonzio, on 19 August 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

well firearms gives you all the pisol upgrades + more condition damage anyway so why not use it with pistol?

I kinda have to agree, a lot better choices with flamethrower than the rifle and power.

#23 Graywolf4409

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 12:55 AM

View PostPonzio, on 19 August 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

well firearms gives you all the pisol upgrades + more condition damage anyway so why not use it with pistol?

Its just that i would lose coated bullets, and i love me some coated bullets. I was gonna go firearms/power anyway for grenades too, but its nice to have wider options, and with a firearms/alchemy build for flamethrower and pistol, i can even switch it out for rifle or elixir gun without respeccing. As far as my basic knowledge tells me anyway.

#24 Ponzio

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 01:02 AM

View PostGraywolf4409, on 19 August 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

Its just that i would lose coated bullets, and i love me some coated bullets. I was gonna go firearms/power anyway for grenades too, but its nice to have wider options, and with a firearms/alchemy build for flamethrower and pistol, i can even switch it out for rifle or elixir gun without respeccing. As far as my basic knowledge tells me anyway.

Im a little bit confused here, you dont want to spec firearms cause you would lose coated bullets? Because coated bullets is a grandmaster trait of firearms :P

#25 Aitchkay

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 02:31 AM

View Post1259Potatoes, on 18 August 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

I hope they don't add a timer to the FT stability, that would really be a huge nerf. If any nerf is coming to Juggernaut I hope it just doesn't break stuns on kit swap.

*crosses fingers*

It would be a justified nerf, though.  I think that there should be a duration to the stability (since it's now a boon), AND an internal cd.  However, the movement speed reduction should be removed.

#26 Ponzio

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 02:39 AM

View PostAitchkay, on 19 August 2012 - 02:31 AM, said:

It would be a justified nerf, though.  I think that there should be a duration to the stability (since it's now a boon), AND an internal cd.  However, the movement speed reduction should be removed.

Juggernaut and immunity to conditons on 25% health made me feel like a unstoppable force... :(

Edited by Ponzio, 19 August 2012 - 02:39 AM.


#27 vaidemine

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 02:47 AM

View PostPonzio, on 19 August 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

Juggernaut and immunity to conditons on 25% health made me feel like a unstoppable force... :(

Thus the "justified nerf" part. Fun for engineers, not so much for everyone else.

#28 Aitchkay

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 02:47 AM

View PostPonzio, on 19 August 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

Juggernaut and immunity to conditons on 25% health made me feel like a unstoppable force... :(

Did the immunity even work?  It wasn't working at all as of BWE#3.

#29 Ponzio

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 02:54 AM

View PostAitchkay, on 19 August 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

Did the immunity even work?  It wasn't working at all as of BWE#3.

In the last stress test it didnt remove conditions but no one was able to put new ones on you. In combination with a complete condition remover it made necros totaly helpless and other conditon builds to some extend.

View Postvaidemine, on 19 August 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

Thus the "justified nerf" part. Fun for engineers, not so much for everyone else.

Well isnt it enough if the engineer has fun :P

If they change it to 3 seconds and internal cooldown or something similar they need to give the trait a buff somewhere else. I dont think removing the buff would be good cause it destroys the theme of the trait but what about flat out buffing flamethrower skill one damage or give every attack the chance to burn.

Edited by Ponzio, 19 August 2012 - 02:57 AM.


#30 Aitchkay

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 03:06 AM

View PostPonzio, on 19 August 2012 - 02:54 AM, said:

Well isnt it enough if the engineer has fun :P

If they change it to 3 seconds and internal cooldown or something similar they need to give the trait a buff somewhere else. I dont think removing the buff would be good cause it destroys the theme of the trait but what about flat out buffing flamethrower skill one damage or give every attack the chance to burn.

The issue is that it isn't fun for anyone else.  How would you feel playing vs. an Engineer with Juggernaut, knowing you can never CC him, ever?  Stability is now a boon, so it is removable by boon stripping, and is affected by boon duration increases.  How would permanent stability work?  The closest thing to that are Elite skills, and I think everyone agrees that anything that comes close to Elite skills shouldn't have no cd, be able to break CC as well as make you immune, and no cast time.

The theme of the trait is that you would be unstoppable with the FT out.  A short duration stability doesn't destroy this feeling, and neither does an internal CD.  Also, even if they nerfed Juggernaut, they wouldn't have to buff the FT.  Not everyone takes Juggernaut, and if the FT is fine now, then it'll still be fine post nerf.




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