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Homosexuality in Tyria


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#1 Eontos

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:10 AM

Alright, so in my little RP world, my main character, a male, human, is gay and has a human or sylvari boyfriend. (Deciding if it'll be a NPC in my personal story, or one of my alts--even though it is not possible to play both at the same time, one can make things up, as well as can;t decide if it'll be two humans or one human and a sylvari)

What do you think about gays in Tyria, do you think such a thing would be popustrous, horrifying and/or unheard of? Or do you think it would be accepted among the societies of the Humans, Charr, Norn, Asura and Sylvari?

Would some races accept it quicker than others? From what I understand, the Sylvari would be the first to adopt this lifestyle due to their accepting nature and ignorance to "customs" and lack of knowledge of deviance.

What do you guys think? This is not here to make people feel uncomfortable. Just act and post normal. Please don't go overboard and fling insults or praises everywhere either. :P

EDIT**** Oops, meant to post in Durmand Priory, my bad! Someone please move it.

Edited by Eontos, 20 August 2012 - 04:19 AM.


#2 Eternal Arcadia

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:13 AM

I think sexual orientation is the last thing on peoples minds in tyria, you'd think that they have bigger problems to deal with.

#3 Acidicore

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:15 AM

When I was in the The Grove during the green knight personal storyline, I was pleaded by a male sylvari to save his lover, who was another male if I recall. There's going to be stereotypical hate of something (religious, sexual preference, gender inequality (the charr had it for centuries)), but I don't know how characters in the game will feel about such things. I doubt we'll see anything like a norn standing around yelling homophobic epithets, Anet would get some serious bad press for it.

Edited by Corsair, 20 August 2012 - 09:31 PM.
chick fil eh?


#4 tallanx

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:16 AM

View PostEontos, on 20 August 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

Would some races accept it quicker than others? From what I understand, the Sylvari would be the first to adopt this lifestyle due to their accepting nature and ignorance to "customs" and lack of knowledge of deviance.

The Sylvari would accept it, not because of that, but because they are all actually asexual beings.

Personally, I think the Charr would have a lot of issues with it. Norn probably wouldn't care too much. Humans might have issues with it. Asura would simply invent something to turn one of them from male to female and vice versa

#5 Shadowkanji

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:17 AM

If you played through Sylvari starting quests you'll find that they are very liberal sexually.

#6 Schyd

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:18 AM

Well, let me correct you on Why Sylvari are the ones that accept the most homosexuality. It's because for them, the only reason to have sexual relations is for the sake of pleasure, since they can't procreate. The Pale Tree is procreating, not the Sylvari. So they have no other motive to be with another sylvari except feelings.
Also I think Humans ans Asura would be the next to accept it as a common thing. Asura because they are intelligent enough to recognize that discriminating someone else for what they are instead of what they do would do no good to anyone, thus making their society slow down (Making their dream of enslaving other races less viable). And the humans only because their religion makes me think of the Ancient Greece's religion, where homosexuals were as equal as heterosexuals.

#7 Midnight_Tea

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:23 AM

I'm pretty sure, as a setting, Guild Wars is actually unusually GLBT-friendly. Let's just say I know, from sources I'd prefer to keep to myself, that the developers are generally politically progressive. If you accept their interpretation of the lore as canon then pretty much any gendered couple you want to make is kosher.
I can't speak to how every society would react to it but it's very well possible that nobody in Tyria really cares. Would go against the Earth social standard for that technological era, but no one says our taboos have to be their's as well.

...

Am I the only one who gets the vibe that Countess Anise plays for both teams? Just as a sidenote.

Edited by Midnight_Tea, 20 August 2012 - 04:24 AM.


#8 Erikir

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:23 AM

Asura - too busy with intellectual matters to care
Charr - probably strongly against male homosexuality, less so about female
Humans - depends on their religious culture
Norn - likely celebrate any union between two people
Sylvari - probably pansexual

#9 Acidicore

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:23 AM

View Posttallanx, on 20 August 2012 - 04:16 AM, said:

The Sylvari would accept it, not because of that, but because they are all actually asexual beings.

Personally, I think the Charr would have a lot of issues with it. Norn probably wouldn't care too much. Humans might have issues with it. Asura would simply invent something to turn one of them from male to female and vice versa
Sylvari do have genitals, remember reading it on a reddit somewhere. Can they have babies, probably not, but bisexual is more likely. They do have personalities, so they also have choices. Those choices will be of personal preference, not upbringing or jargon they've heard since their youth. There are humans older than sylvari, as they've been barely around for 20-ish years or so.


View PostErikir, on 20 August 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

Asura - too busy with intellectual matters to care
Charr - probably strongly against male homosexuality, less so about female
Humans - depends on their religious culture
Norn - likely celebrate any union between two people
Sylvari - probably pansexual
Interesting piece of information. Considering they worship one god, all six or none of them at all, probably could change the way they view things.

Edited by Acidicore, 20 August 2012 - 04:25 AM.


#10 Yui San

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:24 AM

View PostEternal Arcadia, on 20 August 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

I think sexual orientation is the last thing on peoples minds in tyria, you'd think that they have bigger problems to deal with.

Same can be said about our world. Look at how many problems we have on our planet, yet there still are millions of people who have nothing better to do than judging other peoples' sexual orientation. :-/

#11 Tohkay Ahtok

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:25 AM

In terms of gender-bending, I (a large hairy male human) play female characters, while my wife ( a cute woman) is usually playing big, hulky males. Really weirds people out on voice chat...

I'm glad ANet has decided to be respectfully flexible on sexuality.

#12 dawdler

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:26 AM

Well if we want to get all philosophical about it, then I think it would be as following:

Sylvari: Accepted since they dont have real genders AFAIK
Asura: Frowned upon, as there is no logical point to it.
Norn: Probably semi-accepted for the "dominant" side while the other is considered a weakling, sort of speak (Vikings thought this historically).
Char: Similar to Norn, plus they can barely tell the difference between male and female haha.
Human: Frowned upon because of various ignorant ideas.

#13 AngryTom

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:29 AM

View PostErikir, on 20 August 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

Charr - probably strongly against male homosexuality, less so about female

Why would Charr be homophobic or biased towards a female sexuality? Is this based on them being Roman inspired? Is this based on them being more "bro-ish" than the other races? Is it the military thing?
Plenty of 'mo Romans.
Plenty of *gy bros.
Military... yeah sure, only ever hetero...
And if the reasoning is that they can't pass down their genes, who is to say they don't use surrogate mothers/fathers?

I haven't seen any evidence to point to either male or female Charr being affectionate, but this in no way means they can't be homosexuals. I do not see the logic of this point. They certainly wouldn't fear gays.

Edited by AngryTom, 20 August 2012 - 04:33 AM.


#14 Yui San

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:31 AM

View Postdawdler, on 20 August 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

Human: Frowned upon because of various ignorant ideas.

Any examples? (and we are talking only about Guild Wars here)

#15 EliteZeon

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:32 AM

Actually, if I recall correctly.
I remember some GW1 Human Females having some romantic dialogue, or at least hinting at it... but I can't completely remember where it was from... I just know it made a lasting impression on me when I saw. Or it was because the two npcs were flirting and both were just generated with female npc skins each time and every time... or maybe I just read the dialogue and interpreted it completely wrong.

Lets see... Asuras, whoever's mind is most beautiful to them will attract them. So feel free for fe/male genius on fe/male genius action.

#16 Acidicore

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:39 AM

View PostAngryTom, on 20 August 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

Why would Charr be homophobic or biased towards a female sexuality? Is this based on them being Roman inspired? Is this based on them being more "bro-ish" than the other races? Is it the military thing?
Plenty of 'mo Romans.
Plenty of *gy bros.
Military... yeah sure, only ever hetero...
And if the reasoning is that they can't pass down their genes, who is to say they don't use surrogate mothers/fathers?

I haven't seen any evidence to point to either male or female Charr being affectionate, but this in no way means they can't be homosexuals. I do not see the logic of this point. They certainly wouldn't fear gays.
In GW1, females weren't allowed to fight, or do anything outside of breed (cook maybe, but then again, cooking means fire and the flame legion was in control). It was their nature after the flame legion took over and I suspect some charr would still hold on to some traditions, not many though, the females showed great prowess after the flame legion was toppled.

#17 tallanx

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:48 AM

View PostAcidicore, on 20 August 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

Sylvari do have genitals, remember reading it on a reddit somewhere. Can they have babies, probably not, but bisexual is more likely. They do have personalities, so they also have choices. Those choices will be of personal preference, not upbringing or jargon they've heard since their youth. There are humans older than sylvari, as they've been barely around for 20-ish years or so.


Yes, but those are not functional. They imitate humans in terms of shape, but they are all asexual creatures.

#18 Gerroh

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 04:51 AM

I can't really see any of the races being totally against it.
Sylvari gender is only really a matter of appearance, as others mentioned. In addition to that, plants as a whole are hermaphrodites, though I'm not so sure Sylvari are incapable of reproducing, as(According to something I read somewhere, maybe the wiki?) pollen falls off of them as they run, and pollen is essentially plant semen(And that is its only purpose), which makes Sylvari slightly gross to be around when you think of it that way.
Asura barely have any sexual dimorphism, and I don't think they'd care much about sex altogether, contrary to what their rabbit appearance would lead you to believe.
Human, Charr, and Norn could have a problem with it, but they never talk about "the sanctity of marriage", or discriminate for religious beliefs, or complain about free healthcare.

Plus, Pyre always seemed to have a strong gay vibe, if you ask me.

Edited by Gerroh, 20 August 2012 - 04:52 AM.


#19 Weindrasi

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 05:02 AM

I don't think the Humans would be against it. Christian/Muslim views on sexuality & the Bible/Koran don't exist in Tyria, and (excepting the White Mantle) pretty much everyone believes in the same set of Gods. I imagine they're a much more sexually open society--although since they're a multi-cultural society, there may be some cultures that find it taboo.

I don't think Asura would have a problem with homosexuality either. Some might consider it "eccentric", but that's not a bad trait for an Asura to have.

The Norn are all "Do what you want, live free and glorious!" so they wouldn't have a problem either.

The only group that I think might oppose homosexuality would be the Charr. The Charr are so military, they do just about everything for the purpose of supporting the army. Since cubs are born to make more soldiers, they might consider a long-term sexual relationship that doesn't result in cubs to be useless--and uselessness is a taboo for them. It's possible that they might consider it every soldier's duty to sire or birth a cub. On the other hand, this could be entirely false--I think it would be up to you as a role-player to decide things like that.

Edited by Weindrasi, 20 August 2012 - 05:05 AM.


#20 AngryTom

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 05:19 AM

View PostAcidicore, on 20 August 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

In GW1, females weren't allowed to fight, or do anything outside of breed (cook maybe, but then again, cooking means fire and the flame legion was in control). It was their nature after the flame legion took over and I suspect some charr would still hold on to some traditions, not many though, the females showed great prowess after the flame legion was toppled.

So no gays during the Flame legion dominated eras? Seems kind of queer.
IF so, then there would be a cultural backlash and in their haste to rid them selves of crap that reminds them of the flame legion, some might experiment with their sexuality. When you're are war you don't really want to emulate the people you war against.

I don't know about things being bred to be "nature" though. Sounds sort of racist.  Not only that but Breeding doesn't really fall into the homorelationship thing if you ask me. Plenty of LGBT couples have children. With the Charr always at war, sounds like plenty of opportunity for war orphans, Asuran Vat clones, etc.

I believe they only look down on relationships that interfere with doing your duty. Superior --> Inferior would seem more taboo than male/male or female/female relationships.

Edited by AngryTom, 20 August 2012 - 05:22 AM.


#21 KiraNirvanna

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 05:41 AM

Sylvari are Definetly ok with homosexuality. To them love is love regardless. I have no idea how likely interracial relationships are in Tyria though. -v(o.O)v-

#22 KiraNirvanna

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 05:48 AM

I'd also like to mention that I believe that it is in fact cannon that charr don't tend to mate for life, relationships between them tend to be more casual. That is of course, not to say they do not ever mate for life of course. However I expect it does mean they're less that particular about who someone else is currently romantically entangled with at any given moment.

#23 Corsair

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 06:04 AM

As a reminder, this is a highly sensitive topic. Keep it under control.

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#24 FoxBat

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 06:39 AM

Charr sexuality in general is weird. AFAIK they usually don't have "long-term" relationships, period. They'll get together here and there but rarely for long. For the cubs ASAP Fahrah becomes everything and family means little, with them only occasionally coming into contact. If you're going to try to make the efficiency argument (and I'm not sure they really view sex that way, even if they really ought to strategically), then it may well be OK for some short-lived homosexual encounters, that wouldn't necessarily interfere with getting the hetero relations in that produce more cubs.

The Dynamics Asura personal story has a borderline sappy hetero relationship, so there's no cause for saying that Asura shun love in general as irrelevant or illogical, or only use sex for efficiency purposes. Heck there were some quests in EotN that involved an Asuran male NPC trying to woo some females.

#25 Reduxe

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 06:50 AM

View PostAcidicore, on 20 August 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

When I was in the The Grove during the green knight personal storyline, I was pleaded by a male sylvari to save his lover, who was another male if I recall. There's going to be stereotypical hate of something (religious, sexual preference, gender inequality (the charr had it for centuries)), but I don't know how characters in the game will feel about such things. I doubt we'll see anything like a norn standing around yelling homophobic epithets, Anet would get some serious bad press for it

I do think there will be some sort of same sex couples in Tyria. In real life it has become common to see such a thing, and I'm sure there are some same sex couples working at ANet. I see nothing wrong with having them in the game :).

If I do recall, ANet spoke of a housing feature, built with the ability of having couples too. As I will be playing with my childhood best friend, I hope we can have the feature of same sex marriage in game. Most games you don't see that happening and it really limits some people. I'm not gay, but I will still like to enjoy all the features of a married couple in game, while spending the time and effort with my friend.

Edited by Corsair, 20 August 2012 - 09:31 PM.
chick fil eh?


#26 Konig Des Todes

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 06:54 AM

Homosexuality has been confirmed since sylvari week to be 100% just simply not cared about by sylvari. By that, I mean they don't care if you are in love with a man or a woman, sylvari or another race. Love is love, and sex to them is only a physical pleasure.


The other races is fairly uncertain though. Don't think we've seen cases of homosexuality among the others but given that asura care for intelligence rather than appearance, they're probably fine with it, and given norn care for legends, they won't mind if you're a great individual. Charr don't care for relationships whatsoever - to them, sex is just a recreational means and for procreation. I can see them not caring if it meant enjoying a night that can be your last. Humans are really the only ones who have thus far given a vibe of "might be uneasy with homosexuality."

But such views would really only come out of influence from reality. As said above, being against homosexuality is mostly from the Abrahamic faiths, which don't exist in Tyria. There is no god saying that you should not sleep with another man. That we know of at least.

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#27 Natzmc

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:05 AM

We could all speculate about it, and anet is a very lgbt friendly company but I think for roleplaying it will come down to the individual person, did you character experience immediate acceptance or face some ignorance and conflict and is out to try and prove themeselves so on etc.

Kudos to you OP for being thorough in your rp and getting a good idea of society for your backstory.

#28 Esorono Osuiger

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:33 AM

GG: With the previous questions establishing a basis, how does same-sex attraction fit into the world? The sylvari are not restricted to sexual attraction for mating reasons, but how does the rest of the world/factions see this, especially since Caithe seems to play a fairly large role in the world, and was previously a lover of Faolain?
Ree: Other races of the world see the sylvari as odd for many more reasons than simply their sexuality - the issue of same-gender love among the sylvari is no more strange to, say, a norn than the fact that sylvari bleed a type of sap and not blood. Other races have a history of same-sex relationships, but those relationships tend to be downplayed and not lauded within the culture. This is not to say that the races of Tyria are naturally homophobic; they're absolutely not. It's simply not particularly common.
Within the sylvari, all forms of benevolent love are encouraged. If love makes you and the recipient stronger, if it encourages you to positive action and heroism, then it should be respected and celebrated. The sylvari see this as only natural. The other races are curious about it, true, because many of them aren't used to seeing that kind of relationship. Still, the other races don't, in general, approach it with a sense of abhorrence or disdain.
However, it should be noted that there will always be individuals whose personal beliefs counter their general racial tendency. Among the norn, for example, we have the Sons of Svanir - who are wholly and unashamedly misogynistic. Individuals of the various races might have their own reasons to denigrate a same-sex pairing. Such individuals will tend to be seen as villains within the overall culture of Tyria. http://gaygamer.net/...2s_ree_soe.html

#29 geala

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:39 AM

It's an important question from the RP aspect because you have to play your role according to the common conceptions about it. Wether a society is opposed to homosexuality or not is usually a matter of coincidence. The strong decline of homosexuality in the Bible for example is often related to the wish to draw a distinction between the Jewish tribes and the religion of the competing other nations, tribes and towns in the area. Some other religions did not have such a pronounced position towards homosexuality.

So we should know more about Tyria's religion and philosophy to answer the question. It is difficult to judge from other aspects of society. Often arguments are made like "it's a harsh medieval world full of fighting, no place for homosexuality" This is a historical misunderstanding. In belligerent societies like those of ancient Hellas, the Maya, medieval China or Japan bi- or homosexual behavior (also between warriors) was often accepted or even honored to some extend.

So before we get some hints in the game (in Age of Conan for example there were quests connected to homosexual behavior that gave hints to the common view about it), we can only speculate. Perhaps it's best to assume that it is not so much of a problem of society but of individual taste.

#30 Esorono Osuiger

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 07:50 AM

View PostCruxisinhibitor, on 20 August 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

That's called liberal, crowd control PR-ing. Guarantee you she made that up on the fly, it was probably never even discussed. You people take such pointless things so seriously about a game. Homosexuality exists within the game's lore and the sylvari culture. Who the **** cares? It just sounds like TC is asking for his RP to be accepted within the world of GW2. I don't know any straight people that RP their characters to have homosexual relationships unless they are fangirls into yaoi, so i assume TC is gay. Just explaining this to the poster who quoted me, don't mean any of this in an inflammatory way. I don't understand the importance behind the OP. It's been stated over and over in the press that the Sylvari culture has homosexual connotations. I doubt that it's a serious enough theme within the game to even bother discussing whether Charr, Humans, Norn, or Asura condone it, like it even matters any way. Just RP however you want to, doesn't even matter what every perspective on the bond is in-lore.

I just found this thread and I happened to have the link open, I thought it would pertain to the topic so I posted it. You don't have to be so aggressive if it doesn't matter to you.




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