65 replies to this topic

[That Happy Cat]

Since everyone's posting their builds, I may as well post mine. They should be pretty self-explanatory. Comment if you will.

Clone Spamming Condition Build

"Balanced" Phantasm Build

Point Holder Warden Build

Glass Cannon Mantra Build

You may notice two things about my builds. One, I really like Mantra of Recovery; and two: I really like Mass Invisibility. In most cases this is purely personal preference, you could substitute them for any Healing or Elite skill and the build would work more or less the same.

Edited by That Happy Cat, 21 August 2012 - 02:18 PM.

[Zorian51]

I like the Phantasm build. Instead of going for crit you just go for all around damage it seems. Throwing the crit aways gives you a lot in terms of toughness/vit I take it.

For the confusion build I suggest taking Chaotic Dampering as Emma pointed out to me it lowers staff cooldowns by 20% which may be more useful.. but I guess its personal preference. I went 4 Nightmare and 2 Lyssa runes in mine and took the extra 20% for condition length as I think it might put out more damage. Build is similar to mine but I went 10 less in Illusions and put it into Dominiation. Bumps up the length to 30% for all conditions and about 50% on confusion.

All just personal preference things I believe.

[Tjuba]

I like the might on your phantasm build, and think it may be be important to mesmers due to it giving both power and condition damage.

I did something similar here:
http://gw2skills.net...HbOuck5sEZIy DA
Testing to see if blinds are viable for aoe confuse, otherwise I go signet of domination, arcane thievery with illusionary persona and bounce trait.

What are your thoughts on healing power? I have only heard negative things about it, yet you seem to prioritize it in your point defense build over toughness and vitality. Does it work well with Mantra of Recovery?

Edited by Tjuba, 21 August 2012 - 03:41 PM.

[Chesire]

Your condition build is almost identical to mine. What I can tell you about this build is (and is something I've been trying to work around) Backstab thieves and high burst Ele's are going to rip you a new one. I've played a build like that since BWE1 and just now added AT to the mix, and while it is insanely fun, when you face a well played Thief/Ele I can guarantee a difficult but short fight. Either you'll die within seconds or they will. Usually the thief will come out on top because of all the numerous ways they have to stealth and keep from being targeted but this isn't always the case.

I've been trying my best to tweak a condition build that doesn't lose a lot of our great trait choices and damage but still has good life expectancy. So far the BEST I've been able to come up with, even after getting all my guilds theorycrafters involved, is something like this:

http://gw2skills.net...MLYOwkgtEZkxGEA

I just don't know how much of a gain it is to rely on protection/toughness for damage mitigation. For SPvP, specifically in tournaments, Vitality is the preferred stat so I'm going to test this extensively.

The damage loss on my build compared to the other when I had around 1248 Condition damage (1339 in-game somehow?) is only around 9 damage on bleed ticks and 30-40ish on Burn so it isn't that big of a hit. But the question remains, does it increase your TTK/EHP/Life expectancy/Whatever you want to call it.

[Dinaminjo]

This is mine, a hybrid between condition damage (1050) and phantasms..
http://gw2skills.net...GrNObk2sEZEyUEA

The idea is to have two phantasms out all the time while bombarding the target with conditions so you minimize the chance you are hard countered.

I tried finding a perfect balance of stats..
I don't think I can do better than 2750 attack + might sigils, 2276 armor and 22k health.. Crit is low but it isn't crucial to the build..

You might ask why not Illusionary Person but shatter is a very low priority only really coming into action with a well timed Cry + Images combo and Chaotic Dampening reduces staff cd or so I heard..

Edited by Dinaminjo, 21 August 2012 - 04:38 PM.

[Awake]

Chesire, on 21 August 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

Backstab thieves and high burst Ele's are going to rip you a new one.

I think they rip everyone a new one

[Chesire]

Awake, on 21 August 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

I think they rip everyone a new one

True lol

But I mean it's almost an insta-gib because of their burst and your limited HP pool.

[Zorian51]

Seems to be a lot of talk on Toughness vs Vitality. I think toughness wins out on direct damage still as your HP is worth more with the more toughness you have. On Conditional Damage thought probably not. Of course

Not sure how much this link below is true or not but I did read some of it.

http://www.guildwars...ss-or-vitality/

[Chesire]

Zorian51, on 21 August 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Seems to be a lot of talk on Toughness vs Vitality. I think toughness wins out on direct damage still as your HP is worth more with the more toughness you have. On Conditional Damage thought probably not. Of course

Not sure how much this link below is true or not but I did read some of it.

http://www.guildwars...ss-or-vitality/

I've heard from so many theorycrafters about Toughness v Vit that I have a headache from just thinking about it. What most of them agree on is that Toughness doesn't scale as well as Vitality and so you kinda get more from Vitality. Honestly I think it's opinion based and how well you can manage the damage you take.

What I do know is that with my build, I was able to take on every class with relative ease or at least put up a very hard fight. The issue I had was with backstab thieves and ele's. Even though I had nearly 2k toughness, they still hit me for half-2/3 my HP within a couple of seconds leaving little time to react. Combine this with those skills inflicting CC conditions and thieves also being able to stealth, this made fighting them INSANELY hard to damn near impossible.

A build I came up with a few minutes has an ok balance of both, but I worry about Phantasm damage (like it or not they are part of mesmer damage) and the fact that clones don't inflict bleeds.

Build: http://gw2skills.net...JbTumkNt Y8xeDA

[Zorian51]

Well the other thing you want to take in consideration now is toughness effects the clones but vitality doesn't from what I understand? So toughness would be better if they are close. Keep your clones up longer if they get attacked.

[Chesire]

Zorian51, on 21 August 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

Well the other thing you want to take in consideration now is toughness effects the clones but vitality doesn't from what I understand? So toughness would be better if they are close. Keep your clones up longer if they get attacked.

Doesn't matter if you're dead or die easily yourself though.

[Delolith]

Chesire, on 21 August 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

I've heard from so many theorycrafters about Toughness v Vit that I have a headache from just thinking about it. What most of them agree on is that Toughness doesn't scale as well as Vitality and so you kinda get more from Vitality. Honestly I think it's opinion based and how well you can manage the damage you take.

What I do know is that with my build, I was able to take on every class with relative ease or at least put up a very hard fight. The issue I had was with backstab thieves and ele's. Even though I had nearly 2k toughness, they still hit me for half-2/3 my HP within a couple of seconds leaving little time to react. Combine this with those skills inflicting CC conditions and thieves also being able to stealth, this made fighting them INSANELY hard to damn near impossible.

A build I came up with a few minutes has an ok balance of both, but I worry about Phantasm damage (like it or not they are part of mesmer damage) and the fact that clones don't inflict bleeds.

Build: http://gw2skills.net...JbTumkNt Y8xeDA

I think 2000-2100 toughness should be minimum to make any kind of proper sPvP/PvP build. Anything below that and you die like a fly by anything. However, illusionary membrane goes a long way to protect you in several cases.

Edited by Delolith, 21 August 2012 - 06:20 PM.

[Chesire]

Delolith, on 21 August 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

I think 2000-2100 toughness should be minimum to make any kind of proper sPvP/PvP build. Anything below that and you die like a fly by anything. However, illusionary membrane goes a long way to protect you in several cases.

Maybe. I know with 1800 Toughness I was still burst down really fast; I don't see an extra 200-300 really mitigating much more damage to make a difference. It was only a couple instances that this happened to me in 1v1 but against those players I had no chance at all so it just has me looking at alternatives now.

[Zorian51]

Delolith, on 21 August 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

I think 2000-2100 toughness should be minimum to make any kind of proper sPvP/PvP build. Anything below that and you die like a fly by anything. However, illusionary membrane goes a long way to protect you in several cases.

Thats a pretty unreasonable requirement. It would require you focusing the amulet always on toughness. With no points into toughness on the trait line and using just rabid you'd only get around 1500. To  get 2100 you would have to hinder your build in multiple ways and always build a certain way.

Don't think that will ever fly.

Even with 30 points into Chaos with this it would only hit about 1860. So I'm not sure how you could even think that as being a possible answer.

Edited by Zorian51, 21 August 2012 - 06:39 PM.

[spelley]

Zorian51, on 21 August 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Thats a pretty unreasonable requirement. It would require you focusing the amulet always on toughness. With no points into toughness on the trait line and using just rabid you'd only get around 1500. To  get 2100 you would have to hinder your build in multiple ways and always build a certain way.

Don't think that will ever fly.

Even with 30 points into Chaos with this it would only hit about 1860. So I'm not sure how you could even think that as being a possible answer.

Yeah, think he got his math wrong somewhere along the way.

[Chesire]

Tankiest build I've done so far has 1950 toughness.

Anymore than that and you're going to be doing shit for damage as well as have a tiny HP pool.

[Delolith]

Sorry I meant armor not toughness. Wording mistake apologies.

Edited by Delolith, 21 August 2012 - 07:16 PM.

[Nerathas]

Any reason why you prefer scepter + sword above the staff for the phantasm build?
Just wondering thanks.

[Zorian51]

Delolith, on 21 August 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Sorry I meant armor not toughness. Wording mistake apologies.

Oh thats pretty easy. You have a base armor around 1800 or so. Getting that much more armor should be easy for anyone.

[Delolith]

Zorian51, on 21 August 2012 - 07:19 PM, said:

Oh thats pretty easy. You have a base armor around 1800 or so. Getting that much more armor should be easy for anyone.

It is. To tell you the truth I found some significant difference between being able to react between 1830 (base armor) and 2100 armor against heavy hitters.

[CasualPvP]

Cat, can you explain your preference for Mass Invis? I was really disappointed when I tried it.

[Raytla]

This is my shatter, condition, confusion and clone heavy build. My build is to also make my enemies suffer for destroying my clones. Hope you like and don't forget to leave your thoughts :-P

http://gw2skills.net...XuvkftSYkwOhJBA

Edit: Linked correct build.

Edited by Catiine, 21 August 2012 - 09:07 PM.

[j3w3l]

Here's a link to most of my builds I will be checking out com release

[Featherman]

http://gw2skills.net...Nubk3sqYEy jpDA

Here's my defensive supporter build. Using it, I was able to consistently win 1v1, 1v2 and survive 1v3 encounters. It was great for stalling and causing mayhem at the same time. The premise is to summon as many clones as possible and then shatter then when the opportunity is right. Warden's Feedback and Masterful Reflection help deal with rangers and their pets, and greatly add to Blurred Frenzy's general awesomeness. Invincibility to all attacks + Reflect at the same time? Yes please.

The skills also work well together. One strategy I used was against fleeing enemies was to throw down a Temportal Curtain. Illusory Warden, Into the void. If they survived, Illusory Leap>Swap and then Blurred Frenzy does quite a lot of damage on the groups up enemies.

Edit: Linked to wrong build

Edited by Featherman, 22 August 2012 - 08:00 AM.

[Zebes]

This is what I had the most success with:
http://gw2skills.net...HbNOck1sKYQwuAA

Of course, replace Deceptive Evasion with Sharper Images due to the traitline changes. I get good damage from both my GS skills, my Phantasms and my shatters. Shatters offer the biggest spike damage, and a well timed shatter right after your Phantasm attacks creates a powerful damage spike. I have some escape with Decoy and Desperate Decoy, and control with SigoDom. The SoD provides a stun and a bit more damage from the bleeds. The bleeds help with runners and is an aoe dot you can stack up with the Berserker. If you get someone to attack into both iCounter and Riposte then you can do some powerful counter damage.

It's basically designed not to be too dependent on either never shattering or always shattering.

[That Happy Cat]

Zorian51, on 21 August 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

For the confusion build I suggest taking Chaotic Dampering as Emma pointed out to me it lowers staff cooldowns by 20% which may be more useful.

I debated whether I should take Chaotic Dampening or not, but I didn't want to sacrifice either Illusionary Defence or Debilitating Dissipation. In this stress test however I replaced Illusionary Defence with Chaotic Dampening.

Tjuba, on 21 August 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

What are your thoughts on healing power? I have only heard negative things about it, yet you seem to prioritize it in your point defense build over toughness and vitality. Does it work well with Mantra of Recovery?

It's a tough choice, but it works. Gives me about +1000 HP from MoR and makes Regeneration (which I basically have non-stop) heal ~300 HP/s. For longer engagements (>30 seconds) it definitely makes you more survivable than if you went for Vitality, but the loss of Power (compared to the Soldier's Amulet) is another concern.

Chesire, on 21 August 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

Your condition build is almost identical to mine. What I can tell you about this build is (and is something I've been trying to work around) Backstab thieves and high burst Ele's are going to rip you a new one. I've played a build like that since BWE1 and just now added AT to the mix, and while it is insanely fun, when you face a well played Thief/Ele I can guarantee a difficult but short fight. Either you'll die within seconds or they will. Usually the thief will come out on top because of all the numerous ways they have to stealth and keep from being targeted but this isn't always the case.

I've played my condition build quite extensively, and to be honest I never felt like I had problems with Elementalists. Thieves are annoying because of their constant stealth (I seem to miss Arcane Thievery a lot against Thieves) but other than that they aren't problematic either. Both professions seem highly susceptible to Confusion bursts (Confusing Images + Cry of Frustration = 11 stacks of Confusion, ~2000 damage per skill activation), I think most of my Confusion kills are against Elementalists and Thieves.

The only profession that consistently gives me trouble are Conditionmancers, as they're essentially immune to your conditions and can inflict conditions on you faster than you could cleanse them. With low Vitality, this build doesn't last long against consistently high stacks of conditions.

Nerathas, on 21 August 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Any reason why you prefer scepter + sword above the staff for the phantasm build?
Just wondering thanks.

Because the build is Power-based. The Staff is a Malice-based weapon, with only Warlock being Power-based. While the Scepter is often perceived as Malice-based, it is really more Power-based than anything; as its 1 and 2 deal direct damage and its 3 also deals a lot of direct damage.

CasualPvP, on 21 August 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

Cat, can you explain your preference for Mass Invis? I was really disappointed when I tried it.

The primary reason is its short CD: it is always available when I need it. I mainly use it to channel MoR during combat, although it is also quite reliable for escaping zergs: the stealth lasts long enough that if you run in a direction your enemies aren't expecting, you'll be able to slip out of sight or simply be too far away to catch when the stealth runs out. Also, it's actually quite helpful in group fights.

The other reason is that I simply don't like Moa Morph or Time Warp. The former makes me feel cheap (except when I use it to counter another profession's Elite), and its CD is long which means I don't get to use it much anyway. The latter is, I admit, extremely potent, and I'd take it if I wanted to support my team; but otherwise its CD is just too long.

Overall, I guess MI just seems to flow better with my playstyle. I can get at least twice as many uses out of it than the other Elites, and I don't have to feel like I have to "save" my Elite for the most opportune moment for fear of wasting it either. Somewhat strangely, you could say that the reason MI clicks with me is because it feels more like a Utility skill than an Elite.

Edited by That Happy Cat, 22 August 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[Chesire]

That Happy Cat, on 22 August 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

I've played my condition build quite extensively, and to be honest I never felt like I had problems with Elementalists. Thieves are annoying because of their constant stealth (I seem to miss Arcane Thievery a lot against Thieves) but other than that they aren't problematic either. Both professions seem highly susceptible to Confusion bursts (Confusing Images + Cry of Frustration = 11 stacks of Confusion, ~2000 damage per skill activation), I think most of my Confusion kills are against Elementalists and Thieves.

The only profession that consistently gives me trouble are Conditionmancers, as they're essentially immune to your conditions and can inflict conditions on you faster than you could cleanse them. With low Vitality, this build doesn't last long against consistently high stacks of conditions.

Would you be interested in PMing to talk about strategies when it comes to Ele's and Thieves?

I am also curious how you use iWarden on points because I have just recently thought of doing this. He spawns on your target still yes? With my condition build it's becoming more and more common for me to end up kiting enemies and the speed/cripple from Curtain is looking more and more vital to this. It also seems like a good on-point fighting weapon because of the AE the Warden provides, meaning your enemies either have to abandon point or waste hefty AE skills in order to deal damage to him and you both; or they could just abandon the point entirely. This also opens up ways to deal with other on-point Mesmers that use clones/Phantasms which I find highly annoying but not always lethal.

The obvious being pointed out, I'd like to know ways you've found to utilize it effectively.

As far as conditionmancers, with the buff to Null Field now removing all conditions/boons, you effectively shut down their damage for a good 7 seconds with 26 seconds in between. Have you thought of replacing Arcane Thievery with NF? I have started considering it heavily after the last stress test--an instant cleanse just wasn't enough to deal with their damage in drawn out engagements.

[That Happy Cat]

Chesire, on 22 August 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

Would you be interested in PMing to talk about strategies when it comes to Ele's and Thieves?

I am also curious how you use iWarden on points because I have just recently thought of doing this. He spawns on your target still yes? With my condition build it's becoming more and more common for me to end up kiting enemies and the speed/cripple from Curtain is looking more and more vital to this. It also seems like a good on-point fighting weapon because of the AE the Warden provides, meaning your enemies either have to abandon point or waste hefty AE skills in order to deal damage to him and you both; or they could just abandon the point entirely. This also opens up ways to deal with other on-point Mesmers that use clones/Phantasms which I find highly annoying but not always lethal.

The obvious being pointed out, I'd like to know ways you've found to utilize it effectively.

As far as conditionmancers, with the buff to Null Field now removing all conditions/boons, you effectively shut down their damage for a good 7 seconds with 26 seconds in between. Have you thought of replacing Arcane Thievery with NF? I have started considering it heavily after the last stress test--an instant cleanse just wasn't enough to deal with their damage in drawn out engagements.

I'd certainly be open to discussing strategies.

With regards to the Warden, it is obviously very effective against ranged enemies; but I find it quite lacking against melee enemies: even with multiple HP boosters it remains very fragile, and is quickly lost if a melee enemy is intent on dissolving it. With Warden's Feedback and Illusionists Celerity however, Warden's CD is reduced to 15s; which is quite manageable and makes losing it not that big a deal.

In general, I'd conjure Warden and try to stay as close to it as possible so I could reflect incoming projectiles with as little movement as possible. One of the reasons I focused on healing with my Warden build is so I can apply Regeneration on my Illusions, which really helps to keep them alive against the occasional AoE or melee swipe.

Overall I feel that the Focus really shines in group fights. Place Temporal Curtain in the middle of the skirmish and you'll be reflecting a lot of enemy projectiles, and Into the Void is great as a prelude to AoE punishment. Also, people tend not to target Illusions in group fights, so with Regeneration it's quite easy to keep Warden alive and reflecting.

I have tried Null Field (before it was nerfed), but really: 7s of condition immunity is nothing compared to Conditionmancers and their condition manipulation. Combined with their naturally high Vitality and Death Shroud, they pretty much hard counter my condition build (the other thing is my condition build uses a healthy dose of Might, and Conditionmancers can corrupt those too). I was not aware that Null Field is restored to its former power however: I may use it again, as I find AT rather unreliable.

Edited by That Happy Cat, 22 August 2012 - 11:55 AM.

[Apocalyptic]

I ran the phantasm build yesterday in sPvP and i absolutely fell in love with the class.  Even considering making it my first class on Friday night for PvE and WvW.

Obviously phantasm builds are extremely viable right now, but how does the greater community see phantasms currently?  Overpowered? Underpowered? Balanced?

[jangbi]

Apocalyptic, on 22 August 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

I ran the phantasm build yesterday in sPvP and i absolutely fell in love with the class.  Even considering making it my first class on Friday night for PvE and WvW.

Obviously phantasm builds are extremely viable right now, but how does the greater community see phantasms currently?  Overpowered? Underpowered? Balanced?

Phantasm AI is getting less stupid by the day and they are viable in a number of different weapon sets and play styles. I personally love that I can choose to play a phantasm/condition/crit build and then switch to a phantasm/power/crit build at my leisure.

That being said, some phantasms (duellist/zerker) are clearly outperforming others so some buffs to the less popular off-hands would be nice to see. That being said, I have yet to find a phantasm build which, when traited properly, was not at least viable for casual pvp.

In short: Phantasms are good and stuff

Edited by jangbi, 22 August 2012 - 02:38 PM.