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Thief Pistol/Dagger Build

thief pistol dagger build bleed condition stealth generic tags

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#1 theqwertyosc

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 02:05 PM

So it seems that playing a thief with a pistol in the main hand and a dagger in the off-hand is a strange idea to begin with, as most players (in my not so expansive experience) prefer the dual dagger or dual pistol set-ups. However, I love the idea of using P/D because of the great kiting opportunities it presents, as well as some damage. The multi target cripple, stealth and runawayability that the dagger provides with a pistol seems too good to be true. Body shot, as far as I have read elsewhere on the forums is largely redundant, but the bleeds from body shot, and the stealth attack are what I want to build around. So it will be a condition damage build, with bonus kiting.
My build so far looks like this:

http://gw2skills.net...fk sGYEwegXAzBA

I won't explain every single decision that I made, because I don't have the time, but is there something glaringly wrong with the build?

I took: deadly arts for condition duration, and power as a nice bonus; shadow arts for survivability and goodies in stealth, and trickery for initiative, bountiful thief, and of course, condition damage.

My plan is to pop in and out of stealth with various abilities whilst using my sneak attack and spam bleeds.

What do you guys think? should I invest trait points differently? are there any useful traits I missed? Is this build pointless?

does this Venom sharing build completely outshine my build?

http://gw2skills.net...fk sGYEwegXAzBA

Thanks in advance to anyone who posts constructive criticism!

#2 Drekor

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 06:24 PM

P/D is the prefer setup of most of the thieves in upper level tournament play since it's the best condition setup!

As to your build there are a few things that don't make much sense.

You are lacking infusion of shadow. It's probably the most important trait for a P/D build to take as it allows you to use C&D every 3s and get those sneak attacks in as often as possible and not murder your initiative. It also works hilariously well with shadow refuge :).Panic strike is also very very weak, 4s root that you don't really have direct control over every 60s? Not a great choice. Dagger training is also pretty underwhelming... it'll help your C&D damage a bit but it's pretty minor.

Also yes the venom share build is much better although there are lots of variants on it.

#3 theqwertyosc

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 06:58 PM

Ok thanks for the feedback! I am very grateful that you explained your points, and I suppose that venom sharing is just the most powerful option so far.

#4 thepostman

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 07:52 PM

http://gw2skills.net...G7Xuvkft6YEwsDA

this is the build I'm toying around with currently on the ST, very heavy conditions/survivability. Dagger storm is just an experiment,

#5 Klikster

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 08:26 PM

I'm working on a P/D build as well and Swickster helped me sort a bunch of it out yesterday.

Here's the updated build: http://gw2skills.net...GrPOYk s YAysBA

#6 1259Potatoes

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 03:37 AM

View PostKlikster, on 21 August 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

I'm working on a P/D build as well and Swickster helped me sort a bunch of it out yesterday.

Here's the updated build: http://gw2skills.net...GrPOYk s YAysBA

Took a quick look at the updated build, I like it and I am interested. Couple questions though...

- You have 30% Increased Bleed Duration just to get the extra tick with your bleeds? Perhaps Rune of the Undead for condition dmg/toughness could replace them?

- Sigil of Superior Life for the offhand sword? I just don't see this rune being particularly useful in the tPvP(and even sPvP) setting. At least in my opinion I will be 1v1ing more often than not, and +10 healing power doesn't seem as useful compared to something like 3stacks of might on weapon swap (Superior Battle)

- Lastly do you find Sleight of Hand worth it? I don't think i have ever picked this trait... If you could just comment about it!


Overall though I like the looks of this build! A pretty balanced build with good power and condition dmg. I am tempted to try this build as it is, as well as switching out the MH pistol for a dagger. To get Leaping Death Blossom. Perhaps with a few tweaks I can tailor it to my style! Thanks for the share.

#7 Samowar

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:00 PM

Guys, i thought about my build yesterday. Could you please take a look at it? I think these two venoms are not enough to waste so many point on deadly arts tree, but on the second hand i lose exposed weakness. For now i made two variations about this build, and i dunno what to choose. Could anyone help me decide?

No venoms, no poisoning, focused on bleeding, more useful traits, lot of initiative, lot of stealth:
http://gw2skills.net...POfk sCYEwOgZAA

Venoms, few offensive traits, different runes.
http://gw2skills.net...POYk sCYEwOgZAA

#8 HouseOfMirrors

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:02 PM

View Posttheqwertyosc, on 21 August 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

So it seems that playing a thief with a pistol in the main hand and a dagger in the off-hand is a strange idea to begin with, as most players (in my not so expansive experience) prefer the dual dagger or dual pistol set-ups. However, I love the idea of using P/D because of the great kiting opportunities it presents, as well as some damage. The multi target cripple, stealth and runawayability that the dagger provides with a pistol seems too good to be true. Body shot, as far as I have read elsewhere on the forums is largely redundant, but the bleeds from body shot, and the stealth attack are what I want to build around. So it will be a condition damage build, with bonus kiting.
My build so far looks like this:

http://gw2skills.net...fk sGYEwegXAzBA

I won't explain every single decision that I made, because I don't have the time, but is there something glaringly wrong with the build?

I took: deadly arts for condition duration, and power as a nice bonus; shadow arts for survivability and goodies in stealth, and trickery for initiative, bountiful thief, and of course, condition damage.

My plan is to pop in and out of stealth with various abilities whilst using my sneak attack and spam bleeds.

What do you guys think? should I invest trait points differently? are there any useful traits I missed? Is this build pointless?

does this Venom sharing build completely outshine my build?

http://gw2skills.net...fk sGYEwegXAzBA

Thanks in advance to anyone who posts constructive criticism!

I had a tinker with this build too, as I was making a very similar S/P build (before reading all the Pistol Whip hating). I've changed a few things. I retraited a bit. And went for Undead Runes as I think they are great for a conditions build (especially the toughness -> condition damage on #6), and I changed a few of the sigils around. I also went for D/D, as for me this build relies on stealing, which brings me closer to the enemy-- as does C&D if you want to use it properly. So it is now a D/D SB build.

Clicky Clicky

Lots and lots of poisoning, with Dagger chain 1, Shortbow 4, Spider venom on 7 and of course poison on stealing-- in addition to +33% duration from Potent Poison and malice/expertise boost. Plenty of stealth (C&D, hide in shadows, shadow refuge). Good damage from Mug and the as-ever respectable dagger skills. Nice bit of bleeding too, from death blossom and cluster bomb. And efficient initative use through traiting.

Weak in health terms. Basically you have to hope that you never get dazed/immobilised, because if you can't stealth you're dead.

Then again I'm hardly a pro, so this is probably no good.

#9 Im0su

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:48 PM

I like the concept of bleeding and, after a D/D build I have followed the advise of Drekor to go to a P/D build. I design my build with the objectives of maximizing the Malice trait (-> 30 points in Trickery), the number of time I can use the sneak attack, and a strong survivability.

So far I come to this build: http://gw2skills.net...LbNuvkftCYEw0DA

I am able to use the Sneak attack with Steal, Cloak and Dagger, Hide in Shadows, and Blinding Powder.  I'm usually never out of Initiative because most of these skills come at no or small cost (Infusion of Shadow also works well with all my stealth capacities).

A extra survivability is provided by Caltrops (which mades also some bleedings), Roll for Initiative, and trait points in the Acrobatics line.

Because I have decided to maximize the Trickery line to increase the bleeding effects, my second trait tree is Shadow Arts due to the synergie between Cunning (Steal Recharge Rate) and the improvements of the Steal skill offered by Shadow Arts.
Same logic for the Trickery traits. I don't use Uncatchable which is redondant with Caltrops.

The drawback of this build is I definitely don't do a lot of direct damages.

Edited by Im0su, 22 August 2012 - 07:52 PM.


#10 Samowar

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 09:32 PM

Your runes choice may be better. You get 10% conditions duration and 180 condition damage, while you could have 30% od bleeding duration + 160 condition damage. Also an Uncatchable trait in trickery tree is a good choice.

#11 thepostman

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 10:01 PM

Here's some footage of my p/d build


had a ton of success. I think your build is really missing out by not taking poison Ims0u, the damage and -healing is huge.

#12 Klikster

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 11:27 PM

View Post1259Potatoes, on 22 August 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

Took a quick look at the updated build, I like it and I am interested. Couple questions though...

- You have 30% Increased Bleed Duration just to get the extra tick with your bleeds? Perhaps Rune of the Undead for condition dmg/toughness could replace them?
That was something that Swickster added and I'm not super stuck on it. That could replace it easily enough.

View Post1259Potatoes, on 22 August 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

- Sigil of Superior Life for the offhand sword? I just don't see this rune being particularly useful in the tPvP(and even sPvP) setting. At least in my opinion I will be 1v1ing more often than not, and +10 healing power doesn't seem as useful compared to something like 3stacks of might on weapon swap (Superior Battle)

I can totally agree with this, Swick added all the Sigils & Runes. But the build is pretty good regardless. I'll likely be trying the might on weapon swap and a few others as I go. :)

View Post1259Potatoes, on 22 August 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

- Lastly do you find Sleight of Hand worth it? I don't think i have ever picked this trait... If you could just comment about it!
I never tried it in the BWE's so I'm going to give it a shot at launch, I was also thinking about the 4 initiative on heal trait or the increased steal range trait instead. But we'll see how it is in-game.

View Post1259Potatoes, on 22 August 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

Overall though I like the looks of this build! A pretty balanced build with good power and condition dmg. I am tempted to try this build as it is, as well as switching out the MH pistol for a dagger. To get Leaping Death Blossom. Perhaps with a few tweaks I can tailor it to my style! Thanks for the share.
No problem. :)

#13 sty0pa

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:33 PM

View PostIm0su, on 22 August 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

I like the concept of bleeding and, after a D/D build I have followed the advise of Drekor to go to a P/D build. I design my build with the objectives of maximizing the Malice trait (-> 30 points in Trickery), the number of time I can use the sneak attack, and a strong survivability.

So far I come to this build: http://gw2skills.net...LbNuvkftCYEw0DA

I am able to use the Sneak attack with Steal, Cloak and Dagger, Hide in Shadows, and Blinding Powder.  I'm usually never out of Initiative because most of these skills come at no or small cost (Infusion of Shadow also works well with all my stealth capacities).

A extra survivability is provided by Caltrops (which mades also some bleedings), Roll for Initiative, and trait points in the Acrobatics line.

Because I have decided to maximize the Trickery line to increase the bleeding effects, my second trait tree is Shadow Arts due to the synergie between Cunning (Steal Recharge Rate) and the improvements of the Steal skill offered by Shadow Arts.
Same logic for the Trickery traits. I don't use Uncatchable which is redondant with Caltrops.

The drawback of this build is I definitely don't do a lot of direct damages.

Does assassin's reward give you more overall healing than pain response?  A slight heal every time you use init seems ok, but 10s of regen PLUS  shedding bleed/posion/burning whenever you're struck and <75% hp seems much more powerful, even with the 45s cooldown.

#14 Im0su

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 06:26 PM

View Poststy0pa, on 23 August 2012 - 12:33 PM, said:

Does assassin's reward give you more overall healing than pain response?  A slight heal every time you use init seems ok, but 10s of regen PLUS  shedding bleed/posion/burning whenever you're struck and <75% hp seems much more powerful, even with the 45s cooldown.

I will give a try to Pain Response. In fact I was not fully convinced by Assassin's Reward.

View Postthepostman, on 22 August 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

had a ton of success. I think your build is really missing out by not taking poison Ims0u, the damage and -healing is huge.

Taking poison will oblige me to go to Deadly Arts, which will decrease the synergy of the build. True ? If I notice I am always overwhelmed, I may go to a full poison build.

Thank you for your feedbacks.

Edited by Im0su, 23 August 2012 - 06:26 PM.


#15 Scorpy

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:29 PM

hi,

Body shot tooltip say, 5% incoming damage, why does it not work with condtition damage?

#16 fizzlefinger

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:06 AM

this is my pistol/dagger build

http://gw2skills.net...mkNtCYEwegXAzAA

the bleed from vital shot ticks for a whole 6 seconds... combine that with the spider venom and you have someone in a world of hurt.
infusion of shadows combined with cloak and dagger and signet of shadows is a great escape tool if your enemy cleanses all those debuffs.

i had the last 4h stress great succes with this, pick asura as a race so you arent as easily spotted after stealth and dont storm into the heat of the battle also dont do 1v1... play like a proper thief attackign from where people dont expect it.

#17 Samowar

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:11 AM

Okey guys, one more try. Changed everything a bit. Could anyone rate my build, correct my mistakes if i made any? I would be very thankful.
http://gw2skills.net...mkNtCYEwegXAzAA




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